View Full Version : what gun would you choose?
April 3, 2011, 07:01 PM
what gun would you start with for a tactical, home defense shotgun?
reminton 870 (and the magnums ect)
i am leaning towards the siaga because of the ability to change mags
what would you choose and why???:)
April 3, 2011, 07:16 PM
I'm gonna wait and give that kel tec bull pup a whirl.
April 3, 2011, 07:21 PM
Saiga 12 with 20 round drum, 4 10 round mags and 1 5 round mag
April 3, 2011, 07:28 PM
ausher i would really like to know what people think about that kel tec
April 3, 2011, 07:39 PM
Is there such a thing as a tactical home defense shotgun? I don't think there necessarily is, if you consider that a home defense gun is a type of tactical gun but not all tactical guns are ideal for home defense.
I vote for a more traditional pump shotgun, such as the Remington of Mossberg. The Kel Tec may prove to be well suited for home defense and close quarters, but it remains to prove itself. The saiga may be a decent general combat shotgun but is not well suited for the close quarters encountered in home defense. I am also concerned with its reliability.
April 3, 2011, 07:46 PM
i just used tactical and home defense as one category. ie short barrel some light fixed on the weapon ect
April 3, 2011, 07:52 PM
870 or the mossberg. I dont like saiga shotguns. Never have never will. If you want to shoot one thats fine by me.
April 3, 2011, 07:55 PM
any specific reason why u dont like them or just in general dislike the gun overall. i would like to see a torture test of the siaga to be completely sold
April 3, 2011, 08:20 PM
870. Because they work.
April 3, 2011, 08:30 PM
Have you considered the Weatherby Treat Response shotguns? I just bought one and absolutely love it, handling, capacity, balance. Its got it all.
April 3, 2011, 09:35 PM
870 all the way... :)
April 4, 2011, 04:16 PM
Any of the listed ones will do a superb job when held in trained, experienced hands....
We ARE the weakest link, not the hardware.
Get the shotgun that feels best, add wear marks......
April 4, 2011, 04:44 PM
870 loaded with OO is all ya need!
The Real Wyatt
April 4, 2011, 05:39 PM
"any specific reason why u dont like them or just in general dislike the gun overall. i would like to see a torture test of the siaga to be completely sold."
Here 'ya go ... a Russian torture test of the worst kind:
I love my Saiga-12 but I did punish it once just to see how much it could take. I threw it into the trunk of my car with 12 cartons of Wally World Federal # 7 1/2 shotshells. One of the cartons was opened and I don't remember how many shells were still in it, 40, 50 or 60.
I went to the range and shot a couple hundred rounds then threw the shtogun back into the trunk of the car. I continued this for several weeks untill all those shotshells were gone ... well over 1,100 rounds. The shotgun lived in the trunk and was never cleaned during that period; it never once failed. It fed, shot and ejected every round.
Now I admit I don't know much about gas operated shotguns, but over 1,100 rounds without cleaning and no failures seems pretty darn reliable to me.
April 4, 2011, 06:46 PM
Of those, I would go with the 870. I went with a Mossberg 930 because I prefer semi-autos.
April 5, 2011, 09:29 AM
My experience has been the balance of the 870 and BPS preclude some of the felt recoil. The Benelli Pumps and Mossberg Pumps kick me like a young mule would.
My experience is with practice and training, you can load an 870 with an extended mag very quickly getting into the habit of sliding another shell in as soon as one is shot working with a quality shell belt----not the cheap ones where the shells go all the way through. You need those that are closed on one end.
April 5, 2011, 09:41 AM
I would look at a Mossberg 930 - more reliable than the Saiga and much faster shooting and less recoil than the pumps. otherwise flip a coin and get an 870 or 500. If I got an 870 I would spend the extra $$$ for the Police Grade.
April 5, 2011, 10:49 AM
+1 for the model 870,,, spend the extra $$ and go for the wingmaster model, you wont be sorry
April 5, 2011, 08:14 PM
The 870 without a doubt. I have used them all and is IMHO the handsdown winner. Get the HD model with 6rd magazine tube. The Saiga is a neat little toy but the 10rd magazines are a little bulky in the 12 gauge version. Plus, if you NEED more than 6rds of 12ga buckshot to handle a problem, you don't need a reload. You NEED some back-up and battle rifle!
April 5, 2011, 11:35 PM
I would say that your BEST bet is to try what fits first. I myself have grown up on the 870 frame and ANYTHING different in a shotgun confuses me lol. Obviously I am biased, BUT the one thing that I can say is that a reliable pump shotgun is hard to beat for a few reasons.
1)Intimidation factor. When things go south and you are able to get a shotgun out inside of an enclosed home...that sound is probably one of the scarriest sounds on earth. It says, "Hey Do you feel lucky?" Let's face it that you would rather them just LEAVE than have to actually kill them. At least I hope you do.
2)Having hunted for MANY years with an 870 in Mississippi I can tell you that an unexpected rainstorm comes across a plowed muddy field where the temp is bouncing up and down around freezing, that of the 8 shotguns that were on the field the only 2 working were the 2 870s(nobody had a mossy so I cannot personally say anything about it, but I am sure it would have been fine). The Beneli, A5s, and over unders were not really happy to be outside at that point in time. But TBH you will never have that gun in THAT condition if it is a home defense weapon.
2 Short Version)I trust the pumps because hey are very unlikely to have an issue with ejection or workings, at least on the proven models of pumps.
3)PRICE TAG!!!! I can pick up a used 870 for how much? $200? $150? It is hard to sell the gun anyway because everyone already has one. Also the price on anything else you want. You can shoot any ammo you want (birdshot to buck shot) because YOU control the ejection and not the gun. Way more in terms of accessories as well.
Short version of this whole post is that you are best to go with what you are good at, but remember that there is a reason that everyone has an 870 or mossy in the cabinet. It is cheap, easy, and reliable.
April 6, 2011, 03:53 PM
I have no experience with the Saiga, but of the other two, I would prefer the mossberg. This is largely because the safety is more ambidextrous (I shoot lefty) and it's easier to tell at a glance if it's on FIRE or SAFE.
Also, the 870 has a lever where you load the shells in the magazine, the 500 does not. Obviously, many many people have used 870s effectively with that lever, and it is likely a non-issue provided a person practices enough, but it does add a minor obstacle to reloading that is not an issue on the 500. Not that people wear gloves inside their homes much, but there have been times when I've been hunting when the thumb of my glove snagged on that lever after loading a shell.
If you're talking about 500 vs 870 field models (and not tactical models) the 500 has 6-shot capacity vs the 870's 5-shot capacity.
As semi-autos have gotten more and more reliable, I really think something like a mossberg 930 may be the way to go. It's gotten to the point that human error (such as short-shucking) with a pump is probably more likely than failure in a semi-auto.
April 6, 2011, 08:05 PM
870's, even abused and neglected, are just dead reliable. I use a magnum 20ga. 870 youth model for HD. The shorter stock (honestly, it's probably closer to the correct length for most shooters under 6') makes it handle quickly, the lighter recoil allows for faster follow ups and the barrel is only 21". It seems like a winner to me. Although, an old SxS 8 bore waterfowl piece with its barrels shortened to 20" would be mighty effective too...
April 6, 2011, 08:14 PM
Mossberg, or Maverick
April 6, 2011, 08:27 PM
I like 870's. Carried them for years and could tear down and re-build blindfolded. They work each and every time and I like the noise it makes when I rack it. Ability to handle anything, even up to mag loads. That would be my choice. Besides, a slug fired from them at 50 yards and able to hit the head every time!;)
April 6, 2011, 08:33 PM
The lever you are refering to on the 870 is the shell lifter. It raises the shells from the magazine up to the chamber. Almost every repeating shotgun except Mossberg 500's and the bottom eject Ithica's and Brownings use the same system. There may be others. All auto's use the same system as the 870. At best it is a non-issue. The Mossberg uses 2 levers on each side of the receiver to do the same, but are known to miss the shell, dumping it on the ground instead of feeding it into the chamber on rare occasions.
April 6, 2011, 08:42 PM
Yes, the "shell lifter." I had forgotten the name. And we agree it's not big deal, but since I learned with a mossberg first, the lifter on the Remington seems like a hindrance to me. I suppose the exact same thing could be true the other way around, and some people likely prefer the lifter to Mossberg's levers.
April 6, 2011, 08:54 PM
remington 870 expess or mossberg 500. both insanely easy to customize. i went with the 870 express with the ATI mods. the top folding stock, heat shield, and ghost ring sights go nice together. see in the middle of the attach pic.
April 7, 2011, 01:26 AM
I've owned both the 870 and 500. I prefer the 500 over the 870. I just liked the ergonomics like the safety and release lever.
April 7, 2011, 06:15 AM
Hi loose_holster_dan, I think I will choose the middle one. It can surely protect you from harm. :D
April 9, 2011, 09:59 PM
Oh and one more quick thing: don't get caught up in accessories. Making a gun look pretty before you learn to make it shoot pretty is a big mistake I have seen alot of people make. I actually use NO accessories on my 870 for home defense. I actually can duck hunt with the gun without the bead, so I know how the gun shoots on instinct. I am not using it as a precision weapon.
April 10, 2011, 01:20 AM
Oh and one more quick thing: don't get caught up in accessories. Making a gun look pretty before you learn to make it shoot pretty is a big mistake I have seen alot of people make. I actually use NO accessories on my 870 for home defense.
True, and I've seen posts from people who've bought fancy tactical stocks and found that the cheek piece/comb is too high to look down the barrel correctly, or they bought a pistol grip forend and the extra torque from using that kind of grip made the slide action not work as smooth.
I actually can duck hunt with the gun without the bead, so I know how the gun shoots on instinct. I am not using it as a precision weapon.
Not to be critical of your wording Stonewall, but I'll point out that a shotgun doesn't have to be a precision weapon at 20-40 yards or so when shooting ducks, but in HD situations, shots are more likely to be taken around 4 yards. At that distance, a shotgun pattern is only a few inches wide, and some precision is, in fact, necessary. I don't doubt that you know this, but I thought I'd clarify in case any taught-by-movies people read this and think they can just shoot from the hip and never miss with a shotgun.
April 13, 2011, 08:28 PM
Wow! This is the first time i've seen a thread like this so one-sided! It's always been like 50/50 with the Mossbergs and Remmys.
I've never owned an 870, but a friend of mine has one and I have no complaints with it, but...
Cut the crap and go with a 590A1 ;) If it's good enough for combat engineers, it's good enough for a normal one. :)
April 14, 2011, 12:44 PM
I have a Mossberg 500, but if funds were not an issue I probably would have done with the Mossberg 930 for autoloading and for increased rounds capacity
April 14, 2011, 01:09 PM
I haven't seen anyone say anything about the win 1300 12ga!
That's what I use with a mag ext and loaded with #4 buck shot
Wifes gun is a 870 youth with 18 1/2 smoth bore slug barrel!!
April 14, 2011, 06:02 PM
Cause the 1300 hasn't been made in years. Wasn't a bad gun though
Bucks Gun Shop
April 16, 2011, 10:16 PM
If I were going with a pump gun it would either be the 870 or the 590-1A... That said, for my next HD shotgun I am going with an Auto...
April 17, 2011, 11:00 AM
If I were going with a pump gun it would either be the 870 or the 590-1A
Those were my final two choices and I ended up going with the 590A1 ... it's a wonderful gun.
There are soo many options; it's very difficult. Once you figure which brand you are going to buy you then have to figure which model you're going to buy. Tough choices for sure.
Bubba in c.a.
April 19, 2011, 09:42 PM
have you priced a Saiga lately?
If i were in a buying mood I would go for a Moss 930. I currently have a moss 500 and a maverick and am happy with both, I just think semi auto is better in some circumstances, such as multiple targets,
Moss is mechanically superior to 870 because of the method of loading--it is much less likely to jam or bite fingers. Needless to say, there is a training go around on this and if somebody is used to the 870 and doesn`t have a problem with it, they should stick with what works for them.
Moss is also better for those who shoot left handed.
April 20, 2011, 08:34 PM
I have had my 870 for twenty years; it is my most reliable gun! I cannot even think how many rounds I have put throw it. Love it.
April 20, 2011, 08:46 PM
I wouldn't buy a Mossberg or a Saiga on a bet, especially a Saiga.:barf: Remington 870 Express all the way...
April 20, 2011, 10:58 PM
Well, I'm a bettin' man- and a Mossberg, Remmy or Saiga beats a flashlight and a cell phone any day of the week :)
April 21, 2011, 07:12 PM
Lightweight, easy loading, superior controls.
The SEALs liked them during Vietnam.
April 21, 2011, 09:17 PM
Shell lifter o_O? Try elevator, the actual manufacturer's term. My preference would be the Mossberg 500, with an ATI Adjustable stock, capacity's 5+1, with 5 additional shells in the shell holder. I just buy the cheapest 2 3/4" birdshot shells I can find, allowing me to practice more often, while allowing room for some pistol ammo, too!
April 23, 2011, 08:44 PM
Maverick Model 88 20 inch barrel - 7 round magazine
Price: $219.99 to $199.00
Pump-action. Dual extractors & twin-action slide bars for non-binding extraction.
Recoil pad. Barrel compatible with Mossberg 500 model barrels
within gauge & capacity.
Cross-bolt safety. Handles all factory 2-3/4" & 3" loads.
Capable of firing lead steel or non-toxic loads.
Includes Cablelock. One-year limited warranty.
April 23, 2011, 08:47 PM
Short barreled Winchester 97. No lights, no fancies. No racking the slide. Just click and boom.
April 28, 2011, 01:37 PM
870 for me. It's pretty new and I haven't shot it much - and I'm going to have to find something to do with all that rail-estate. Actually, the rail over the receiver is raised just enough to make a nice sight tunnel underneath.
April 28, 2011, 01:51 PM
The Windhester 1300 Defender is indeed again in manufacture, or at least what is marketed as a 1300 Defender under the Winchester brand. Now it is manufactured in Turkey, imported by a company the name of which I couldn't make out on the barrrel, but it is also stamped as a Winchester.
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