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flyboyjake
March 29, 2011, 01:25 AM
just had my truck stolen tonight. I live in a nice part of a Denver metro area in Colorado. The dodge ram diesel was stolen from my driveway. I heard it start, grabbed my gun and a flashlight and ran outside. It was well down the road and I didnt have an ability to chase it. I called the poloce, told them the type and color, which way it went, and tag numbers. They could not find it and speculate its on its way to Mexico as another ram diesel was stolen within 5 minutes of mine less than a mile away.

You are in my shoes, and you were able to get to the driveway before they entered the truck. What do you do? I have a maglight in one hand, and a glock 23 in the other.

I know the criticisms about it, but I am going to buy a laser/flashlight combo for the under rail. I would not have shot the man unless he presented a weapon or charged me, but I have no problem displaying my weapon to make a point in a situation like this.

I liked that truck :( heck, maybe I would have shot him after all...the bastard...At least she will go on to live a lucrative and fulfilling life in the drug trade...

freenokia
March 29, 2011, 01:34 AM
Man that sucks...I would have gone after him on foot. At least till I had a good shot at the tires. Yeah, that's my MO. Chase him down, shoot out the tires, wait for him to bail, hold him at gun point till the police get there :)

really though, what could you do?

Ryder
March 29, 2011, 02:51 AM
If I lived in a place where people were stealing vehicles out of driveways on a regular basis I would definately install a hidden breaker switch for the battery.

Crazy88Fingers
March 29, 2011, 03:05 AM
A few years back I was pulling into the driveway at about 3AM and I noticed the tailgate on my father's F-150 had sprouted legs and walked away in the midst of the night. Our neighborhood is no where near "that side" of the tracks. It doesn't compare to your situation, but the point is that every now and then some bad guys go out of their way to get ya. There really was nothing you could have done unless you had another car to try and track them down in and phone it into the police.

As mentioned, a kill switch is always a good idea. A good alarm doesn't hurt either (though it doesn't always help).

By the way, all you F-150 owners, it takes about 30 seconds to remove the tailgate on some of those trucks. Beware.

MLeake
March 29, 2011, 03:09 AM
... but as far as tailgate theft goes, I used to have a "Pop-a-Lock" on my Z71's tailgate, some years back. I'd recommend those for any truck that does not have a locking tailgate.

Dwight55
March 29, 2011, 06:56 AM
Stolen stuff, . . . that's why we buy insurance.

I love my little red Jeep Liberty, . . . but I will not put rounds down range over it getting stolen. Far too much danger of that bullet hitting the wrong person.

Cousin's husband did that with a .44 Mag Super Blackhawk some years back: "I thought I could shoot out the punkin" was his plea. He hit a teenager, paralyzed him for life.

Just ain't worth it.

May God bless,
Dwight

Ronbert
March 29, 2011, 07:58 AM
Truck might not actually be going to Mexico.
Friend of mine had his truck stolen and it was paid off and gone for 6 months.
Later it turned up in a farm field where it had all the signs of having been doing farm work for those months.

It's times like these where you wish you could rig your vehicle to be like a "bait car" so you just actuate the shutdown and lockdown gear and call the cops.

Sure wish it was legal to shoot them while they are within sight - but it's not.

jhenry
March 29, 2011, 08:05 AM
A hidden fuel shut off switch is not difficult to install. If someone steals it they get a mile or so and it just dies. With a fuel injected rig it just won't start.

MrGaryFish
March 29, 2011, 08:43 AM
A decent alarm has a starter kill that, when triggered, immobilizes the vehicle. IMHO, worth the few hundred bucks. Good luck getting it back or replaced.

SwampYankee
March 29, 2011, 09:00 AM
Man that sucks...I would have gone after him on foot. At least till I had a good shot at the tires. Yeah, that's my MO. Chase him down, shoot out the tires, wait for him to bail, hold him at gun point till the police get there :)

I do hope the smiley face means this was a sarcastic comment. As Dwight55 points out, unloading your firearm in the middle of the street in order to regain stolen property is generally frowned upon for a myriad of reasons...

Bummer about the truck though. I've never had a car stolen, does insurance cover that?

Eagle Eye
March 29, 2011, 10:49 AM
It's times like these where you wish you could rig your vehicle to be like a "bait car" so you just actuate the shutdown and lockdown gear and call the cops.

OnStar takes care of that for me. You give them a call and they shut it down. Lowers your insurance premium with some companies too. It is expensive, but for my $50k car it is worth it and has some other advantages.;)

Eagle0711
March 29, 2011, 01:25 PM
In our town a few years back a fellow heard his VW start up at 3:00AM. He jumped out of bed and chased the theif in his other car. He managed to stop the guy, but he had no gun. He was stabbed and killed. He had a wife and small children.

The lessons here seem obvious.

flyboyjake
March 29, 2011, 01:25 PM
Have insurance, but will still be a hefty sum out of pocket. You know how insurance companies are...

I wont touch onstar. I dont want anyone to be able to know where I am at a whim, although id love to install some proprietary GPS tracking system so that I can find it :)

I think ill install a battery switch on the next one. And a a mounted machine gun on my garage...the poor neighborhood animals :eek:

Moondew
March 29, 2011, 01:53 PM
"tracking system"

LOJACK http://www.lojack.com/

BRE346
March 29, 2011, 05:01 PM
I'm not asking what you paid for it

How badly do you need it? Is it your livelihood? Chasing it down the street is a bad idea. Shooting at it is a bad idea.

Following it in another vehicle is better because you can tell the cops where it is right now. You did bring your cell didn't you.

Better yet is the kill switch. The if you get out of bed because the starter is grinding you have a chance to stick a gun in the thief's ear.

Best is the kill switch and looking out the window while you talk to 911.

IMHO

rcoe
March 29, 2011, 05:11 PM
How new was this truck?

Most of the newer dodges have coded keys that are not exactly easy to bypass.

flyboyjake
March 29, 2011, 07:23 PM
it was a 98'. No broken glass, but it was locked. Cop thinks they use "dummy keys".

freenokia
March 29, 2011, 08:13 PM
I do hope the smiley face means this was a sarcastic comment. As Dwight55 points out, unloading your firearm in the middle of the street in order to regain stolen property is generally frowned upon for a myriad of reasons...

Bummer about the truck though. I've never had a car stolen, does insurance cover that?


I don't do sarcasm. I find it rude and classless. My comment is what is known as being facetious..

That being said--I would have tore out on foot & If a Safe shot to the tire presented itself, I probably would have taken it.

Constantine
March 29, 2011, 08:29 PM
Happened way back when I had a 1990 Toyota Celica GT-S 5speed with all the rims and that stuff.


However...I have a lease now. And it goes back the end of April. I'd let them take it probably. I'd get heated though. Must admit....maybe if it's more than one I may do something stupid. I'd feel threatened and they'd feel like my house and stuff in it are for the taking......



Yeah, actually screw that..I would possibly confront right after I call the police give them my name, address, inform I have a CCW, tell them what I'm wearing and how many perps there are. Then CONFRONT (most likely) cause if you think about it, they will be back eventually. You ARE an easy target to them.





All in all, it is up in the air....and depends on the EXACT situation. I gave both ways I'd go given those circumstances.

On the laws point of view you are supposedly in the wrong for confronting the theirs who are NOT in your home. Just outside. Their fight would be, to call the police and stand down.

This all depends so much on the situation.

m17s_guy
March 30, 2011, 12:13 AM
car/home owners/renters insurance = call allstate.

life insurance = barricade and flip the safety off.....

sorry to hear about your truck, you will probably never find it, nor ever hear a word from the police.

as an above poster said, do a quick look around at your house and make sure it is secure, well lit, and you dont have anything sitting outside you dont want coming up missing.

it is true that thieves have the habit of hitting the "easy" targets, and then coming back again. at least in my neck of the woods.

Powderman
March 30, 2011, 12:22 AM
I highly recommend LoJack--it has a VERY high recovery rate. There are numerous instances where the system is triggered upon unlawful entry or starting of the vehicle, and the vehicle is recovered BEFORE the owner even knows it was stolen!

Best defenses?

1. This one might seem like a no-brainer to some--but if you have a garage--USE IT TO PARK YOUR VEHICLES IN! I know, a lot of folks ue the garage as a storage site--but put your cars in it!

2. LOCK YOUR GARAGE!!!
3. If you must park it outside, and you have a fenced yard, put up a heavy duty gate and secure that sucker at night with some 3/8th chain. I would also look into some IR sensors/motion detectors that will sound an alarm, with the beam right at your entryway.

Older vehicles are more susceptible to "shaved keys", a common burglar/thief's tool to gain entry.

ClayInTx
March 30, 2011, 03:37 AM
To prevent tailgate theft you must do what we do around here. Forget the tailgate is down and back into a tree. No one steals it after that because it now matches the one Bubba already has.

No vehicle is safe from theft; except my old rusty pickup with a good tire.

No vehicle is worth a gun fight to save. You CAN get full replacement value insurance, which costs a bit more but insurance is already an expense you hope not to use.

SwampYankee
March 30, 2011, 06:05 AM
If a Safe shot to the tire presented itself, I probably would have taken it

Clearly you don't do common sense either as even a "safe shot" is going to be breaking the laws in a number of ways and probably get you charged with a bunch of different violations ranging from discharge of a firearm within city limits to attempted murder. Most town/city/county attorney's get a little flustered when people start opening fire in the street.

freenokia
March 30, 2011, 11:20 AM
Clearly you don't do common sense either as even a "safe shot" is going to be breaking the laws in a number of ways and probably get you charged with a bunch of different violations ranging from discharge of a firearm within city limits to attempted murder. Most town/city/county attorney's get a little flustered when people start opening fire in the street.

if a man's in my vehicle, he's armed. Clear and simple. That's grand theft auto (felony) & possession of a firearm during a felony (forcible).

MLeake
March 30, 2011, 11:30 AM
... you claim to be in Georgia.

A forcible felony in your home would afford you Castle Doctrine protections. Similarly, if you were in your vehicle when somebody tried to force their way into it, you'd be pretty safe (legally) as far as using force to defend yourself.

That is not the same as witnessing somebody making off with your truck.

Last I checked, GA is not a state that allows use of deadly force to regain property. (I'm not a lawyer, but I am a GA resident, and that's how I understand our laws on the issue.)

Pretty sure the OP, up in the Denver area, also would not be in a good position with the law if he discharged a firearm in hopes of regaining property.

freenokia
March 30, 2011, 12:06 PM
Don't just claim to be my friend...I'm dead in the middle. I can see ocean, mountains, Alabama & swamps all from my front porch :)


Under castle doctrine, no. But under "stand your ground" ???

http://www.georgiainjurylawblog.com/archives/wrongful-death-stand-your-ground-laws-allowed-in-georgia.html



I'm just out to get the tires anyway...They can charge you with anything they like, but, considering the facts, I think it would be right tough for an attempted murder charge to make it to jury. As far as a ticket for discharge...IF they decided to give me one, I think it would be worth it.


But like you said. He's in Denver & I'm in Georgia...

Powderman
March 30, 2011, 01:15 PM
Maybe for that charge....But....
-Reckless Endangerment
-Unlawful discharge of a firearm
-Malicious Mischief/Vandalism
And, if you said that you were shooting at the vehicle, then I can possibly see attempted manslaughter OR attempted murder.

How so?

Were you, or someone else in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm?
Did the subject make or attempt a "violent and tumultuous" entry into your home?
Did the subject draw or handle a firearm, club or cutting instrument in such a way that would make a reasonable person believe that attack was about to happen?

I won't pretend to know the law in Georgia, but I can tell you this--if you did this in WA State, and I were the responding officer, I'd take your complaint, and then place you under arrest for all of the above charges noted.

If the car is driving away, LET IT GO.

Besides, even if you AREN'T charged--and you hit the guy--trust me, you would probably NOT want to drive that car again.

freenokia
March 30, 2011, 01:45 PM
One thing about it though, brah. He won't be cruisin to Seattle in my truck, now will he.

flyboyjake
March 30, 2011, 06:54 PM
he, let it go you say. Easy to say when 2 years of your life is driving down the street. I'll never live my life according to what some over zealous prosecutor might possibly charge me with.

I would not have shot at the tire myself, but I wouldnt hold it against someone if they did... If I had the ability however, id have chased the SOB down and vigilanted his arse! You can pull a law out of the books and tell me id go to jail for XYZ, but I wont let legislation make it easier to take my property. God help this person if I find him/her with my truck.

Just sayin'

Constantine
March 30, 2011, 07:03 PM
Git em' Jake! The hell with that. Hard earned money and time spent working to get that truck. And some uneducated and possible gang banger in the spur of the moment take that from you in the blink of an eye? Who does that piece of ish think he is? You think he'll have an remorse in killing someone? I doubt it. Again I'm sorry this happened to you.

Powderman
March 30, 2011, 07:56 PM
Um...OK.

Guys...the truck's INSURED---right? You'll get your money--OR replacement value for the truck back.

So, you invested 2 years worth of salary/wages in the truck? I can see where it means a lot, and where it costs a lot.

Will the equivalent of that salary or wages pay for the attorney's fees you'll need to defend yourself, even for a successful, defensible shoot?

Will that salary repay the wages lost if a grand jury returns a true bill--meaning you go to trial for the shooting?

Is making the thief suffer worth the loss of your job if you're convicted of manslaughter--or, if you pursue the thief, charges of outright murder? How about the time lost while you sit in prison?

And--of course it's worth the felony conviction and all that it entails.

LET IT GO. I don't care HOW much the truck is worth, is it REALLY worth a man's (or even a woman's) life?

And finally, think about it...even if it IS a good shoot, think about the ensuing conversation down the road...

"Yep, some idiot stole my truck. I got out to the driveway in time, and put a round right through his head. Went to court for it, and of course it was justified. Had a time cleaning out the truck though---think they missed some of the brains, though--stinks in here sometime. And, I had to buy some seat covers, blood doesn't seem to come out..."

MLeake
March 30, 2011, 10:38 PM
... but freenokia, flyboyjake, and Constantine, you are putting yourselves on record on the forum as saying you'd probably chase, and try to find a justification to shoot, anybody who stole your property.

The internet isn't anonymous, and deleting posts doesn't really make them go away.

Comments like yours could bring down a world of misery if you ever get involved in any sort of shooting incident, because there are good odds that prosecutors or tort attorneys will go through your online history, looking for this kind of thing.

Just a thought.

Otherwise, freenokia, "Stand your ground" laws don't normally apply to vehicles if you are not in them, and they normally also don't cover shooting at people who are trying to escape or elude. There are very few places in the US where a citizen can do this... even in Texas, the law usually requires that the incident occur at night, and/or the property be something that can't be readily replaced.

Your (presumably) insured vehicle wouldn't meet that criterion.

Achilles11B
March 30, 2011, 11:32 PM
My heartfelt sympathies for your truck. I've had my car broken in to on my driveway before, jerks stole my CD's (yeah, it was a while ago) and tried to gank my stereo. Not even remotely close to the same, but knowing that someone stole from you...it's infuriating.

If possible, I would have tried to apprehend the thief (thieves) at gunpoint. If I was too late, then tough tacos for me. The neighbors would have seen/heard this: a guy shooting a moving truck for no particular reason. No good would have come from that. Again, just one guy's opinion.

flyboyjake
March 31, 2011, 02:14 AM
Insurance is not free, however, I understand what you are saying. Just because someone will replace it (because I have paid them for years to do so) does not mean I am going to forget about it.

Attorneys who are looking through my records at some future date, know this. If your client or his survivors is caught by me stealing my property, he will have every chance to comply with my demands...but if I feel my life or the life of another is at risk, He is going to get a pill or two where it counts. I am not ashamed or afraid to announce this

Is my truck worth a life? Thats a question that should be asked to the man who decides to take the risk. You could be hung for stealing cattle in the old day, and I think in Texas you still can. If the guy is down the street, im not going to shoot...But if the guy is caught in the act, you can bet the gun is coming out in preparation for some type of confrontation.

Maybe I have a higher respect for personal property...But not all lives are the same to me. If I find myself in a situation where I am about to hit a person, or I could swerve into a brick wall and total my truck, then the life is worth more and I will sacrifice my truck. If I find a man stealing my property, his life is worth little in my eyes...

God bless you all anyway.

flyboyjake
March 31, 2011, 02:15 AM
and this post makes me a senior member!! HOORAH :)

OldMarksman
March 31, 2011, 01:00 PM
But if the guy is caught in the act, you can bet the gun is coming out in preparation for some type of confrontation. Likely result: arrest, conviction, and imprisonment of the person who drew the gun.

Incidents such as these have been appealed all the way to state supreme courts, and the answer is always the same: one may not threaten deadly force to protect tangible, moveable property.

There is one exception: one may do so to stop a thief in Texas at night if there is no other way, or to prevent the taking of property immediately after a burglary or robbery at any time of day, again if there is no other way.

So--is it smart to try that in Texas? Suppose there is a 97% chance that the actor would prevail in court--that he could demonstrate necessity. That means there is a 3% chance that he will lose everything--his fortune, his freedom, his record, and his gun rights. Not a good risk, methinks.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 31, 2011, 01:40 PM
1. Shooting out the tires is stupid over property.

2. We don't make facetious comments in T and T. That's a way to lose posting ability here.

Using a instrument of deadly force is not to posture or be funny pants. Also, some folks who shot at tires have been arrested. Happened to a guy in Denver, IIRC.

This is a strong hint.

Stevie-Ray
March 31, 2011, 01:45 PM
Um...OK.

Guys...the truck's INSURED---right? You'll get your money--OR replacement value for the truck back.Yup. And for his loyalty and good credit rating, his rates will get raised, all because some piece of human refuse decided to take something that didn't belong to him-something somebody else had to work for.

R1145
March 31, 2011, 02:04 PM
There's not much coverage about the aftermath of incidents where lethal force is used against property crimes. I'd like to see some anecdotes, but I believe that the cost for lawyers and civil penalties would make even the loss of a nice truck seem insignificant.

Cultivate a mindset that use of a firearm is ONLY in the event of a threat to life. Even as the OP indicated, showing a weapon to intimidate the thief, is generally considered a crime.

It is my belief that any time you shoot somebody, justified or not, you will get sued. No big deal: Anyone can sue anyone for anything. However, you need to show that you acted reasonably, that there was a credible threat against your safety.

In considering these scenarios, make your plan to prevent the theft, but do not use a firearm for anything except reacting to a threat against your personal safety.

Remember that we are the good guys, and we play by the rules. We win in the end.

markj
March 31, 2011, 02:10 PM
Years ago my wifes truck was stolen, we didnt get back the extras cash the things we added. But Istill wouldnt run after it and shoot the tires out. What if a ricochet hit a sleeping baby and its mom cause it was feeding etc,.....

Property is just that, it can be and will be replaced. Shooting in this scenario might get you jail and loss of the ability to own a gun at all.


but freenokia, flyboyjake, and Constantine

Learn to use your head, leading wit hyour emotions will get you hurt or in a heap O trouble.

gunner? hah now thats too funny that right there.....

rattletrap1970
March 31, 2011, 02:34 PM
I'd like to have my truck set up like on Bait-Car. Unbreakable windows, auto lock the doors and kill the ignition. Then alert the authorities.... Or better yet, me.

flyboyjake
March 31, 2011, 02:37 PM
Learn to use your head

Learn to use yours, and don't be such a tightwad. There was no need to enter this conversation with an insult, but since you are evidently void of proper human conventions, ill remind you that its not nice or appropriate.

A man committing grand theft auto in my eyes is a man who is capable and willing to use force to prevent getting caught. If I caught the guy, Id be very concerned for my life. I certainly would not approach with nothing but a flashlight. A police officer would have his gun drawn too as he approached the scene.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 31, 2011, 02:55 PM
If you feel you are insulted, you report it. You don't respond with insults.

Closed - what did I say?