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View Full Version : Mosin Nagant sporter (lets see if i can rile people up)


WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 09:59 AM
So i was in the farm-ranch supply store that has a sporting goods section the other day looking at guns and they had probably 30 Mosin Nagant rifles on the shelf for like 90 bucks apiece. Now i know this is going to rile the history purist but is there any reason why one wouldn't make a decent sporter, and im not talking hacksawing the barrel of 2 ft and running the stock through the band saw and calling it good. Im thinking is there any reason that you couldn't take one and do like im doing in my Mauser build. Basically find one that is already beat up or modified, strip it clear to the action, new barrel, new trigger, new stock, and rework the bolt. Now ive never looked at one so i don't know how there built or been inside one to see just how everything works but other than the goofy magazine they look like you could make a attractive rifle out of them. I haven't really look at parts but the only problem i could think of is trigger but it looks like timney offers one. i don't imagine these are as highly finished as some of the Mausers but for just a nice little shooter i don't see why not. And for those who are going to say just buy a Remington it will be cheaper, right now i have access to the machines to do the work so it just costs me parts and i paid more for my Turkish Mauser action then a Mosin would cost.

PawPaw
March 25, 2011, 10:11 AM
There's no particular reason you couldn't sporterize a Mosin. It's your rifle, do what you want with it.

One challenge might be to mount a scope. The Mosin doesn't have a rear bridge like most commercial bolt actions and there's no convenient place for a rear base. You might use a forward mounted scope, but that's individual taste. I'm sure someone has a work-around for scope mounting, but I've never bothered to look.

The question in my mind is how much are you willing to spend on a $90.00 rifle?

Junior's done some work (http://www.castbullet.com/misc/smount.htm) on a Mosin, so that might give you a starting point for your project. He also installed a peep sight (http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/rr.htm) on his rifle. It's decidedly low-tech, but decidedly rugged.

Have fun with your Mosin project. I don't believe you'll hurt the collector value.

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 10:19 AM
Well I have other projects right now but since good actions are getting hard to find a thought I would investigate this some

Scorch
March 25, 2011, 10:47 AM
how much are you willing to spend on a $90.00 rifle?
That's the same question people used to ask in the 50s, 60s, 70s, etc, about military surplus rifles, and yet many many many Mausers of various vintages, Enfields, Springfields, Arisakas, Martinis, and yes, even Carcanos, were sporterized because someone wanted something "special". Ever seen a $750 Carcano in 35 Remington (that's 1985 dollars, BTW)? I built one for a customer (35 Rem rim diameter is the same as 6.5X52mm Carcano rim diameter). Soooooo, I say (the self-deluding voice of authority, right??) why not? You can build whatever you want, it's yours! And scope mounting is not an issue, there are side-mount scope bases, or EER scope bases, or with a little bit of care (and a mill, of course) you can make your own. Barrels are available, and you can upgrade to a good/better/best barrel if you really want the utmost in precision your rifle can deliver. You could even invent a wildcat cartridge if you're feeling a bit wild!

I say go for it! Oh, and let's not forget the pictures as your project progresses!

Wyosmith
March 25, 2011, 10:54 AM
Sure you can.
I have one on the rack in my shop now for just a re-stocking and "sportization"

It should be fun
Surly a Mosin with a good bore is at least as good a weapon to hunt with as most lever action 'deer rifles". More powerful, usually more accurate (with correct ammo) but slower for a 2nd shot, and having a safety that is also a bit slow to place on and off.
So "sporterising" a M/N is totally practical if you like such things Not expensive either

kraigwy
March 25, 2011, 11:57 AM
I'm a purist, I like military rifle to stay "as issued"

How ever, I'm also a realist. I know there are reasons to "modify" a rifle. If you don't shoot Vintage (as issued) Military Rifle Matches, or not a collector, history buff, etc. and want a shooter for hunting and plinking, WHY NOT?

There are reasons. Years ago, in the 70s I just had to have a 416 Rigby. Back then the only practical action for the job was a 1917 Enfields, so I got an action and made my 416, how ever I still have an "as issued" Eddystone.

I can't really condemn one for modifying a rifle to fit their needs.

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 12:22 PM
well it seems that there are a ton of these out there and well im no collector ill never own a gun i can't shoot. Heck for the price i could buy to and throw one in the closet and build one. might have to look at one and see just what they are like. Anybody have pictures of any good sporter Nagants

603Country
March 25, 2011, 12:28 PM
The son of the rancher nearby brought over his Mosin Nagant the other day. I had heard ya'll talk about it on the forum, but I hadn't seen one until then. I have to admit that it was far more rifle than I had expected. And it was what I consider to be carbine length, so I suppose either the regular rifle is shorter than I expected or they do make a carbine version. The sights were very crude, so I'd put a scope on it in the 'scout' fashion - forward of the action. Overall, it looked like a pretty nice rifle to own. And short enough to travel with me on 4wheeler or Kubota RTV without needing to be modified. Not a pretty rifle, but a very sturdy rifle. The kid promised to bring it over to let me shoot it, and I'm looking forward to it.

rr2241tx
March 25, 2011, 01:01 PM
Brownell's carries Weaver side mounts in two sizes that will enable you to mount a standard 1" barrel rifle scope and still clear the bolt. There are good sporter stocks available. Nothing at all wrong with 7.62x54R. You can cut the barrel off to look right in the sporter stock and recrown on a lathe so it is perpendicular to the bore and call it good.

lonstar45
March 25, 2011, 01:33 PM
Here are a few pics of my M44 that I sporterized. I made my own pillars for the stock and then glass bedded the action and floated the barrel in the ATI stock. This rifle has a Timney trigger so I no longer have to use the bolt safety because the new trigger has a safety that operates like the Rem 700's. And the trigger is adjustable from 1 to 4 pounds. I have the UTG tactical tri-rail with a 2-7 x 32 scout scope. I also threaded the barrel to accept a flash hider. :D

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 05:13 PM
ya know when i fist seen them i thought the magazine looked a little goofy but i think with a little work one could make a pretty nice looking gun. About how strong are these actions are the comparable to a mauser 98? How about getting other calibers to feed from the magazine?

TX Hunter
March 25, 2011, 05:17 PM
With a Mosin, you can sporterize them, but I like the way they look as issued, especially with the Dog Collar Olive Drab sling atached.
Kind of takes away from it to modernize it.

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 05:22 PM
so i just looked up the 7.62x54 cartridge and it seems to be kinda in between short and long action. Like ive said ive never look at one of these rifles up close but could you possibly take one and open up the magazine enough to use regular 30-06 length cartridge. Also its rimmed so that might cause some problems with feeding.

tobnpr
March 25, 2011, 05:51 PM
Hell, yeah. Very capable long-range caliber with similar ballistics to the 30.06.

Not a precision rifle by any means, but since you can do your own work, they're a fun project. Just be sure you start out with a nice barreled action with crisp rifling, or it'll obviously be a waste of your time and money.

Posted this in the other Mosin thread currently running (check it out), but here's mine, just completed.
Taking her out to 200 for the second time tomorrow, hopefully I'll have targets impressive enough to brag about.

I won't take up the bandwidth to go into details here (a lot of modifications), but feel free to pm me if you want more info.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/tobnpr/IMAG0189.jpg

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 06:14 PM
hmm looks like a fun gun. Please post or pm some more info on it and what you did to it. If i do build one i would probably get a new barrel and chamber for something american. i was just reading where somebody was building one in a 45-70 which would be neat. so ive been surfing the net and i think that if one was to take one of these rifles throw it in a synthetic stock with a timney trigger and a rechambered short barrel it would be pretty sweet. Make like a 20 inch barreled big bore 3 round open sighted brush and timber gun. Just need to find a cartridge with a similar rim size.

nimbleVagrant
March 25, 2011, 07:57 PM
Unless you've got Comrad Stalin's personal rifle I say go for it. There's no shortage of 'em floating around.

Cheapshooter
March 25, 2011, 08:10 PM
It's yours, do with it what you want. Some day they might be worth more as collectors, but I doubt if it will be in your lifetime.
As far as my personal view, I've seen a lot of really cool looking M/N sporters. But they all have one thing in common...A very much less than user friendly safety for a hunting rifle if that is why you want to sporterize one. For just a cool looking and accurate range rifle, I might consider one myself.

Kreyzhorse
March 25, 2011, 08:22 PM
Your gun, your money and there is no reason it can't be done. You'll likely drop some cash on the project, but if fails at least the original investment was only $90.

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 08:30 PM
well the timney triggers have a safety on them so that would cure the safety problem. Might be something im going to have to look into.

Bamashooter
March 25, 2011, 08:52 PM
I dont know why everyone always whines about the safety. It's diffrent but its not hard to engage or disengage. My son is 12 and he can manipulate the safety on all my mosin's just fine. If he can do it, everyone else should be able to. Come on man.....

Webleymkv
March 25, 2011, 09:02 PM
Sure, it can (and has) been done, but a Mosin-Nagant really isn't the most "sporterization-friendly" design available (Mausers and their variants seem to be more popular).

Recahmbering would be difficult because the 7.62x54r has a case head diameter of .570 which is much wider than most other common rifle cartridges. The only relatively common cartridges I could find in my loading manuals with case head diameters even remotely close to that are .378 Weatherby Magnum and .416 Weatherby Magnum both of which would be far too long for a M-N action. In addition to the case head issue, the single column magazine of the M-N would require pretty extensive modification of replacement in order to accommodate any other reasonably common cartridge.

You've also got barrel length to contend with. Most sporting rifles have barrels in the 22-26" range which conveniently happens to be about the same length as a Lee-Enfield No. 1 Mk. III or No. 4 Mk. I, M1903 Springfield, P17 Enfield, or Kar98K Mauser. The Mosin-Nagants on the other hand have either longer barrels in the case of the 91/30 or shorter barrels in the case of the M38 and M44. In my opinion, the M38 with its 20" barrel and lack of a bayonet lug would make the best platform for a sporter because it's not that short. The 91/30 barrel is, IMHO, just too long and would look ungainly in a sporter stock while the M44 would look odd unless the bayonet and lug were removed. Unfortunately, the M38 is the most expensive of these three variants.

If you decide not to rechamber, there are other issues which make "sporterizing" a M-N somewhat problematic. The split-bridge Mannlicher-type reciever makes mounting a in the traditional position more difficult as you can't have the traditional rear base and must instead resort to a side mount. Also, the farther forward position of the straight bolt handle means that you have to both turn the bolt handle down and use a fairly high mounted scope. Also, you have to make sure that the scope is mounted high enough for you to still have room to manipulate the safety as I've found you have to have a fairly firm grasp on the cocking piece in order to engage or disengage the safety (a feature that seems to have been and afterthought in the design) You can of course use a forward mounted "scout" setup for a scope, but that doesn't really fit the classic "sporter" profile.

Finally, you have the stock. Because Mosin-Nagants aren't popular rifles to sporterize, your options for aftermarket stocks are somewhat limited. For the stock, you've basically got three options: modify the existing one (lots of work and it still probably won't look like a traditional sporter), use a plastic stock like an ATI (cheapest and easiest route but ugly in many peoples eyes), or have someone custom make a wooden stock (spendy).

Basically, in order to really sporterize a Mosin-Nagant, your probably looking a large enough investment of both money and time that you'd be better off just buying a new Savage that's already set up as a sporter. If, on the other hand, you just want to drop the rifle into a plastic camo stock and stick a scout scope on it, and load it full of Wolf JSP's to deer hunt with, well then you'll have a pretty decent deer gun for not a lot of money (though I really don't see anything wrong with a M-N as a deer gun in its original form). Likewise, if you just want to be the only guy at the range with a fancy Mosin, its your money so spend it in whatever way makes you happy.

lonstar45
March 25, 2011, 09:35 PM
After I (sporterized / accurized) My M44 I can now shoot 3moa @ 500m. I think most people are looking for better accuracy than just looks. Of course it is always fun to take a cheap rifle and turn it into something good.:D

WyomingWhitetail
March 25, 2011, 10:27 PM
Well if I was to build one I would strip clear to the action with a new barrel and stock and chamber it in something else. I would do all the work and I would make it like I wanted it. Having to only buy the parts I figure it would be pretty cheap. I think it would be fun to build one as a truck and brush gun. Nothing else I could just use peep sights or ghost rings or something. Not saying I'm going to start buying every mosin I see but with mausers going up I might look into it.

WyomingWhitetail
March 26, 2011, 09:13 AM
been looking at some cartridges and i ran across the 25 Krag. Based on the 30-40 krag so rim size would be smaller by .020 which might take some work, and overall length is fairly close. Would make a neat truck gun, small enough for varmits but still big enough for deer if the occasion called for it.

Scorch
March 26, 2011, 05:01 PM
Recahmbering would be difficult because the 7.62x54r has a case head diameter of .570 which is much wider than most other common rifle cartridges.
There are plenty of commercial cases with head sizes close to the appropriate size (303 Brit, 30-40 Krag, 348 Win, 45-70, you name it), plus literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges. Or invent your own wildcat, you already mentioned the 25 Krag, why not a 25 Russian? The Russians have whole lines of cartridges based on the 7.62X53Rmm case (6mm, 7mm, 9.3mm, 10.15mm), much as the US has whole lines of cartridges based on the 30-06 case. If you just cannot get into one of those, you modify the bolt head, pretty simple. You could chamber it for 22 Hornet, if you were so inclined. Or you could just redo it in 7.62X53Rmm with a high quality barrel and go take on guys at the range in informal matches (wouldn't that tick you off, see your $1,200 TC Icon get beaten by a sporter M-N?).

Because Mosin-Nagants aren't popular rifles to sporterize, your options for aftermarket stocks are somewhat limited.
You can buy stocks for M-Ns, just like you can buy a stock for a Lee-Enfield or a Carcano or a Berthier or a Daudateau or . . . can you say "stockmaker"? I knew you could.

So don't limit yourself because of what somebody has already done or says can or cannot be done, be creative!

WyomingWhitetail
March 26, 2011, 05:21 PM
i already looked and Richards micro fit list the MN in their list of actions inlets so a good wood stock is taken care of, a timney trigger w/safety, and a barrel blank turned to fit. only thing that leaves would be magazine work to make a new round work. I have been wanting a 219 Donaldson wasp based off the 30-30, would take some bolt work but would make a neat varmiter.

Webleymkv
March 26, 2011, 11:38 PM
There are plenty of commercial cases with head sizes close to the appropriate size (303 Brit, 30-40 Krag, 348 Win, 45-70, you name it), plus literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges.

According to my Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook, .303 British has a case head diameter of .540, .30-40 Krag is .545, .348 Win is .610 and .45-70 is .608. Also, all the cartridges you listed except the .45-70 are longer than 7.62x54r which may cause difficulty with the length of the action and the length/shape of the magazine (.45-70 even though it's shorter would still be difficult to adapt to a M-N magazine). Also, I'm not really sure why you'd want to rechamber a Mosin to .303 Brit or .30-40 Krag as neither offer superior ballistics to 7.62x54r nor cheaper ammo.

Quote:
Because Mosin-Nagants aren't popular rifles to sporterize, your options for aftermarket stocks are somewhat limited.
You can buy stocks for M-Ns, just like you can buy a stock for a Lee-Enfield or a Carcano or a Berthier or a Daudateau or . . . can you say "stockmaker"? I knew you could.

Can you say "expensive"? Yeah, I thought you could.

Look, I'm not saying that a Mosin-Nagant can't be sporterized or even that it shouldn't be sporterized, I'm just saying that it's a more difficult and expensive platform to sporterize than something like a Mauser or Lee Enfield. If the OP just wants something unique and doesn't mind the time and money that it will take to turn a Mosin into the rifle of his dreams, then he should definately go for it. If, however, he thinks he's going to save lots of money by sporterizing a Mosin, well then I'm afraid he's mistaken.

Scorch
March 27, 2011, 12:54 AM
According to my Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook,
Yes, I have manuals too. But since the OP is talking about a wildcat cartridge, I also said
literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges
Can you say "expensive"?
With very few exceptions, semi-inletted stock blanks cost the same, be it for a 98, a SMLE, or a M-N.

It's a project gun. Sure, it's easier to customize and wildcat with a M98 or a 1903 or M1917, but he's talking about using a different platform. And since I have been doing what the OP is talking about doing for roughly the last 30 years, I also said
don't limit yourself because of what somebody has already done or says can or cannot be done, be creative! I have chambered lever actions in 357/44 B&D, built sub-MOA match rifles on lever actions for cast-bullet matches, built a Carcano in 35 Remington with a XX Fancy stock and scoped it, shortened M98 actions for custom rifles, made cases for drilling rifles when there was no ammo available, loaded and fired BP cartridge rifles with paper patched bullets, made claw mounts to fit European rifles, they all turned out very nice, and in each case there was someone there telling me it could not be done. I guess I am just not smart enough to listen to the "voice of reason".

Sorry if my rant offends anyone.

TX Hunter
March 27, 2011, 08:00 AM
I think your rant was awesome!!!!!

WyomingWhitetail
March 27, 2011, 09:14 AM
well ive been looking around some and basically parts are the same price so a basic mn build would be cheaper than a Mauser build since Mauser actions are more expensive than a whole MN rifle. Now there are a lot more options avialble for the mauser that would make building a fancy or extravagent mauser cheaper but for just a basic truck gun they would be about the same given the fact that i would be doing all the work. also if you look at the 25 krag improved i found an overall length of 2.980 which is just barely shorter than the 7.62x54 so it should fit perfect for length. The rim diameter on the Krag is .545 where as the 7.62 is .567. Im not sure if enough of the rim would still catch to feed and extract reliably but if not i could always build up the bolt head a little somehow. These values are just what i found on the internet not a reloading manual so take them as you will.

tobnpr
March 27, 2011, 09:22 AM
Suggest you start with a MN carbine action (unless you plan on cutting the barrel) for a "truck gun". The barrels on the 91/30 are 28-3/4" long...not conducive to getting in and out of a vehicle easily. The carbine has a 20" barrel.

WyomingWhitetail
March 27, 2011, 09:48 AM
well i would rebarrel any way so wouldn't really matter.

Webleymkv
March 27, 2011, 10:51 AM
Quote:
According to my Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook,
Yes, I have manuals too. But since the OP is talking about a wildcat cartridge, I also said
Quote:
literally dozens of wildcats based on any one of those cartridges

You're going to have to make some fairly extensive modifications to the bolt head in order to make a wildcat based on anything but 7.62x54r work. There is a reason that wildcats are usually based on already existing and popular cartridges: it makes it easier to re-work a rifle into one.

Quote:
Can you say "expensive"?
With very few exceptions, semi-inletted stock blanks cost the same, be it for a 98, a SMLE, or a M-N.

Why limit yourself to a stock blank? Why not just buy a big old log of your chosen wood and whittle whatever type of stock you like out of it? Look, I know it can be done, I never said it couldn't. All I'm saying is that in order to get a M-N stock that looks even remotely close to a "sporter" you're either going to have to go with an el cheapo plastic one or invest more time and/or money in a wooden on than you would on another platform.

It's a project gun. Sure, it's easier to customize and wildcat with a M98 or a 1903 or M1917, but he's talking about using a different platform. And since I have been doing what the OP is talking about doing for roughly the last 30 years, I also said
Quote:
don't limit yourself because of what somebody has already done or says can or cannot be done, be creative!
I have chambered lever actions in 357/44 B&D, built sub-MOA match rifles on lever actions for cast-bullet matches, built a Carcano in 35 Remington with a XX Fancy stock and scoped it, shortened M98 actions for custom rifles, made cases for drilling rifles when there was no ammo available, loaded and fired BP cartridge rifles with paper patched bullets, made claw mounts to fit European rifles, they all turned out very nice, and in each case there was someone there telling me it could not be done. I guess I am just not smart enough to listen to the "voice of reason".


I know it can be done, I never said that it couldn't. However, the OP has mentioned the low price of a M-N as opposed to a Mauser several times which leads me to believe that he thinks he's going to be saving money. Because of the fairly extensive modifications that we're talking about doing here, the OP is either going to have to spend a pretty significant amount of money to have a gunsmith do all this for him, invest a lot of time and work doing it himself, or a combination of both.

I'm sure that with enough time, money, and patience you could feasibly make a Mosin into anything you wanted from a .22 plinker to a long-range sniper in .338 Lapua to an African Dangerous Game rifle in .458 Win Mag. However, by the time you invest the money, time (I don't know about you, but my time is worth something), and effort into making a M-N into such a beast, you could have simply bought a rifle already set up the way you want.

If the OP just wants something unique to make people at the range say "what the hell is that?" then more the power to him. If, however, he thinks he's going to turn a $90 Mosin into a commercial grade sporter for half the price well then I'm afraid he's mistaken.

There is a reason that you see a lot more sporter Enfields and Mauser variants than Mosins, Carcanos, Lebels, Berthiers, etc. and that is that Enfield and Mauser variants are much easier to sporterize. Much like hot rods and muscle cars, the days of sporterizing milsurp rifles in order to save money are over as the supply of easily sporterized rifles is rapidly drying up. The only reason to sporterize a milsurp these days is to gratify a want for something different, not to save money. If the OP simply wants a unique one-off, well it's his time, money and rifle and more the power to him. There are plenty of Mosins out there so I'm not going to cry foul about hacking up a valuable collector's item. However, given his repeated comments about the low price of a Mosin, I get the feeling that he doesn't fully understand the degree of work that will be required for such a project.

Slopemeno
March 27, 2011, 11:37 AM
It's all do-able. I wish I had bough half a dozen of them when they were $35.00 each.

WyomingWhitetail
March 27, 2011, 12:11 PM
well if you think i don't fully understand what is entailed in building a rifle check out my mauser build thread (turkish mauser in 6.5-06). yea it would be a lot of work but I happen to have a friend with the tools to do the work and i enjoy the work. and not counting labor i figure i could probably build a good shooting truck rifle for around 400-600 (yes i could buy a used savage for that much but then its still a used savage). figure 100 for the rifle, 90 for a barrel blank from midway, 100-150 for a richards micro fit stock, then other little stuff. Now is this going to produce a gun that will shoot cloverleaf groups at 600 yrd, i doubt it but it would probably shoot minute of rock chuck at 200 yrds. now im not saying a mn is ever going to be as good as a mauser and darn sure aren't going to look as good but i think they might have potential. the point about magazine and bolt work is valid but with a lathe, mill, and some ingenuity i don't think it would be unsolvable. Not arguing with anyone, just saying.

Webleymkv
March 27, 2011, 12:24 PM
well if you think i don't fully understand what is entailed in building a rifle check out my mauser build thread (turkish mauser in 6.5-06). yea it would be a lot of work but I happen to have a friend with the tools to do the work and i enjoy the work. and not counting labor i figure i could probably build a good shooting truck rifle for around 400-600 (yes i could buy a used savage for that much but then its still a used savage). figure 100 for the rifle, 90 for a barrel blank from midway, 100-150 for a richards micro fit stock, then other little stuff. Now is this going to produce a gun that will shoot cloverleaf groups at 600 yrd, i doubt it but it would probably shoot minute of rock chuck at 200 yrds. now im not saying a mn is ever going to be as good as a mauser and darn sure aren't going to look as good but i think they might have potential. the point about magazine and bolt work is valid but with a lathe, mill, and some ingenuity i don't think it would be unsolvable. Not arguing with anyone, just saying.

As long as you understand what you're getting into, then go for it. I completely understand the allure of guns you don't see everyday, that's why I like and own many of the guns I do. I've seen some pretty cool variations of Mosins over the years although the prices when they're for sale usually aren't all that cool.

Its just that I've seen too many hacked-up, half-done projects that were in the state they were because the person doing the mods got in over his head. That combined with the rather condescending tone of a couple of replies got me a little riled up, but I meant no offense to you. As I said before, so long as you understand what you're going to have to do, it's your gun, money, and time to do with what you wish.

Since you've decided that you're going to go ahead with the project, I'd suggest either leaving the rifle in the original caliber or rechambering to a wildcat based on the 7.65x54r cartridge. By doing that, you'll avoid the difficulties associated with the bolt head and magazine. The 7.62x54r is, in my opinion, a pretty good cartridge and should have the case capacity and pressure ceiling to allow good performance from a wildcat based on it. I know you were looking at going to a smaller diameter bullet, but I think that perhaps necking up to a .33 or .35 diameter would be quite interesting. Something along the lines of a .35 Whelen would make an excellent brush gun and should be adequate for most, if not all, North American big game. Of course it depends on what your intended use for the rifle is as a "9x54r" would probably be a bit of overkill for coyotes and prairie dogs.

WyomingWhitetail
March 27, 2011, 12:38 PM
I doubt I'll start a mosin project right away as I need to finish my mauser and marlin first but I think its something I'll look into.

jhgreasemonkey
March 27, 2011, 12:53 PM
I chopped one up a bit several years ago to semi sporterize it. I don't see why not, they are a dime a dozen. I wouldn't think you could ever make it look nice and refined like a mauser because the nagant is very rough and crudely machined. They make a good knock around woods rifle though and you can make them look some what appealing as kind of a rough use rifle in my opinion. A buddy of mine really liked the one I did so I sold it to him. I sporterized the stock, installed sling swivel studs, a modern hunting sling, and did some painting with camo earth tones. It really looked like a whole different gun. That was a carbine model. They sure a inexpensive right now so I say, buy a few and goto work. See what you can do.

WyomingWhitetail
March 27, 2011, 12:59 PM
Kinda my thinking. They are super cheap so why not experiment on one

sonick808
March 27, 2011, 01:10 PM
i've got some rare wwii memoribilia here, let's chop that into pieces as well! ;)

(someone had to do it)

WyomingWhitetail
March 27, 2011, 01:30 PM
I'm all for saving a few pieces of history but well I'm thinking most mn rifles that I would mess with would be in a shape where most collectors wouldn't be interested.

Webleymkv
March 27, 2011, 02:18 PM
i've got some rare wwii memoribilia here, let's chop that into pieces as well!

(someone had to do it)

If we were talking about an Argentine Mauser or No. 5 Jungle Carbine, I'd cringe a bit, but since literally tens of millions of Mosins were made, I don't think there's much danger of all the good ones getting hacked up.

.300 Weatherby Mag
March 27, 2011, 02:42 PM
If he were talking about hacking up a Finnish M39, Remington or Westinghouse M91 or a 91/30 sniper I might say something... Otherwise hack away...

1johned
March 28, 2011, 07:10 PM
tobnpr,

Please contact me at jegrabe@gmail.com

Thank you,

John 541 915 0832

kozak6
March 29, 2011, 12:43 AM
If we were talking about an Argentine Mauser or No. 5 Jungle Carbine, I'd cringe a bit, but since literally tens of millions of Mosins were made, I don't think there's much danger of all the good ones getting hacked up.

If he were talking about hacking up a Finnish M39, Remington or Westinghouse M91 or a 91/30 sniper I might say something... Otherwise hack away...

Yeah, I've seen some of those all chopped up :(.

Whatever you do, make sure you check every single marking on the thing before you permanently modify it. Make sure to pay attention to markings under the tang.

Although it's unlikely, if you stumble across something rare, it would be foolish to ruin it when you could potentially flip a profit large enough so you could afford the rifle you really want.

FrankenMauser
March 29, 2011, 03:23 AM
Why limit yourself to a stock blank? Why not just buy a big old log of your chosen wood and whittle whatever type of stock you like out of it? Look, I know it can be done, I never said it couldn't. All I'm saying is that in order to get a M-N stock that looks even remotely close to a "sporter" you're either going to have to go with an el cheapo plastic one or invest more time and/or money in a wooden on than you would on another platform.


I have not found any of the common stock makers inletting blanks for a M-N, charging more than $35 for a set-up fee ($15-25 is more common). That extra cost is negligible, in my opinion. ...And some of the companies don't charge extra for a M-N inlet.

And I do have two giant sections of quilted maple trunks, and about 350 lbs of cherry waiting to be turned into stocks and grips. ;)

You may not see the reasoning behind such actions, or the justification of a $25 inletting fee. ...But other people do.



As to chambering options...
I've been playing around with 9x54R, lately. Rather than the Euro version with a .366" diameter bullet, it uses more locally accessible .358" projectiles. It's superior to the .358 Win. But... It'll drop right in a M-N, with a rebarrel, and magazine modifications (approximately 1.5" has to be widened, from the shoulder to the tip of the bullet; the rest of the magazine, follower, and guides can be left alone).

For people that don't want to pay to have the magazine modifications made, it sounds like a stupid idea. For people that have the motivation to do it themselves, or understand the appeal, it's not bad at all.

Anyone considering wildcats based on the 7.62x54R is very likely to already be very aware of the unique case dimensions, and complications arising from them. However, it's no different than having a standard Mauser action adapted to a magnum chambering. Bolt modifications, magazine modifications, feed ramp modifications, and follower mods get pricey very quickly on a Mauser, as well.


For those of you 'contributing' negatively to this thread:
If you don't want to work on a M-N, just say so. Don't tell other people they shouldn't, because it's not a Mauser/1903A3/Enfield/SKS/AR/Win70/Rem700/Mini14.

Cheapshooter
March 29, 2011, 02:42 PM
well the timney triggers have a safety on them so that would cure the safety problem. Might be something im going to have to look into.

Don't think I'll be putting any $100 triggers in any of my $90 guns. I enjoy shooting the old milsurps just the way they come.

RwBeV
March 29, 2011, 04:05 PM
There you go stirring it up again Matt, but you got me thinking. I see no reason that we couldn't do something interesting with a MN. I need to get one in my hands to see what the limitations would be. I might be able to get my hands on a 6.5 Krag reamer. I also have a 219 Zipper Imp. reamer. You have been in my shop I have a good supply of files, hammers and a hacksaw what more would you need. The best way to get me to do something is tell me that it cant be done. I have seen what you are capable of, I wouldn't worry to much about all the negative comments and build what ever you like, you have the talent and I have the 12lb sledge.

Bob

WyomingWhitetail
March 29, 2011, 04:16 PM
hmm 6.5 krag now that might be fun. I was going to ask you next time i came over if your friend (the one with a 20 krag lightning or whatever it was) knew anything about the 25 krag or 25 krag improved. looking at the dimensions i think anything based off the krag would work ok. I also think we could make anything based on the 30-30 work with some attention given to the bolt face (hmm 38-55 anyone). We will have to see if we can get our hand on one so we can actually see what they are like and what we could do.

RwBeV
March 29, 2011, 04:54 PM
Ya I built him a 25 Krag Imp on a Winchester Hi-Wall, it sure makes a nice quarter bore. I think I have a 25 bbl I will check when I get back from NM.

WyomingWhitetail
March 29, 2011, 05:51 PM
Yea from what I have read it seems like pretty neat little round and as you must be figuring out I like odd stuff.

RwBeV
March 30, 2011, 05:55 PM
You are starting to scare me, as a matter of fact you remind me of Me!!

WyomingWhitetail
March 30, 2011, 06:52 PM
Great minds think alike.

Don P
March 30, 2011, 07:10 PM
well i would rebarrel any way so wouldn't really matter.

From the work you want to do and parts change out, replacements sounds like you have too much time and money on your hands.
Are you doing it just because you can?
Having the skills you say you have why not do a build up from scratch.
I have 2 MN's and they are a hoot to shoot as is.
I have found synthetic stocks, scope mounts and scopes, and bolts all for some short money here, www.tickbitesupply.com
Not looking to offend anyone but I can't see cannibalizing a MN to be left with virtually nothing of the original rifle.

WyomingWhitetail
March 30, 2011, 07:31 PM
the reason i would do this is that because it would be the cheapest option for an action. A good mauser action is likely to be over 100$ so a MN would be the cheapest option to get an action for a custom gun.

hornetguy
March 31, 2011, 08:28 AM
Why go to the Krag for wildcat cartridges?
Why not rebarrel with whatever caliber you wish, .25, .264, 7mm... whatever, and just reform the Russian case? No mods needed for the magazine, or bolt face.
I will bet that existing reamers are available, if not, they can be made. I imagine a 6.5X54 would rival the 6.5-06, if not "beat" it. What would a .35 or .40X64 be like? A good elk rifle? Blow it out straight, modify the magazine some, and as was mentioned, chamber the 45-70.
These rifles are pretty cheap, and about as rare as Ford Focuses. (I've got one of those, too)

WyomingWhitetail
March 31, 2011, 08:54 AM
i was thinking the krag just because i liked the sound of the krag. Sounds like brass might be a pain in the arse to get for krag tho so i might just build something off the x54 not sure yet.

hornetguy
March 31, 2011, 01:45 PM
Of course brass is slightly difficult to find at a decent price for the russian, as well. I was fortunate enough to have bought several boxes of Sellier and Bellot ammo when it was about 6 bucks a box for 180gr softpoint.
It's not bad brass at all. Not benchrest quality, but... neither am I. :rolleyes:
Norma brass is just stupid expensive. :barf:
I'm not sure if Starline is making it, or not. If so, that's what I'd go with.

hornetguy
March 31, 2011, 01:47 PM
Now you guys have me thinking about a 45-70 bolt gun.... that ISN'T a Siamese mauser.

WyomingWhitetail
March 31, 2011, 02:02 PM
i have read about a couple of conversions of a MN to 45-70. Thats kinda what i was thinking about at first as a brush gun but now im thinking more of a 6mm or 25 cal varmit/deer truck gun.

FrankenMauser
March 31, 2011, 02:07 PM
Of course brass is slightly difficult to find at a decent price for the russian, as well. I was fortunate enough to have bought several boxes of Sellier and Bellot ammo when it was about 6 bucks a box for 180gr softpoint.
It's not bad brass at all. Not benchrest quality, but... neither am I.
Norma brass is just stupid expensive.
I'm not sure if Starline is making it, or not. If so, that's what I'd go with.

Starline doesn't make it, and probably never will. It's not obsolete, or a 'cowboy' cartridge; and they generally only make mild-taper bottleneck cartridges for rifles.

I don't understand why so many people have trouble finding 7.62x54R brass. Not only can it be ordered from S&B or Prvi Partizan by their dealers, but I have several local shops that stock both brands. One shop, in particular, generally has either brand of primed brass at $44 / 100 cases. That's cheaper than .30-06 and .270 Win, in this area (generally $56-60 / 100 now).

It can also be ordered from Winchester (but requires large lots - I'm guessing 1000+ pieces). The "Winchester" brass is drawn by PPU and S&B, though. I have 100 pieces of S&B "Winchester" brass, and 100 pieces of PPU "Winchester" brass. I prefer the PPU, but they're both as good, or better, than our domestic stuff (R-P, Win, Fed).

RwBeV
April 1, 2011, 09:25 PM
Apparently you have never been to WY, you cant find a thing here for reloading, if its not popular its not stocked here.

Hey Matt I have a 40 cal barrel lets build a 40-65 Win. Oh by the way I'm home now give me a call and lets see if we can get that safety done.

Bob

FrankenMauser
April 2, 2011, 01:41 AM
Apparently you have never been to WY, you cant find a thing here for reloading, if its not popular its not stocked here.

I spend plenty of time in Wyoming. I live right across the border.

Just because you aren't seeing it in your area, does not mean it doesn't exist. Wyoming doesn't have the massive metropolitan areas that its border states do (Salt Lake, Denver, etc), but you can still usually find what you're looking for. It just requires a little more travel time...

For lack of a better cliche:
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

.300 Weatherby Mag
April 2, 2011, 02:23 AM
Apparently you have never been to WY, you cant find a thing here for reloading, if its not popular its not stocked here.



Order it online.. I have family scattered all over the state and they seem to manage... If they can't find it, they order it...

RwBeV
April 2, 2011, 08:27 AM
You ain't telling me nothing I don't already know, I have been here for 50 years. And things just across the border a not all that good either for odd stuff, since Mike McCormick died and they closed down Cache La Pouder Rifle Works. I order when I need to, but I would much rather support my own state. We have two gun shops in town neither will order for a customer I waited 6 months for a box of 41 bullets and finally had to order them myself. This town is the reason I became a gunsmith, I couldn't find one here to do the work I wanted done.

warbirdlover
April 2, 2011, 08:32 AM
Read the article "The Odd Couple" in the May/June '11 issue of "Rifleshooter" magazine. It's about sporter conversions and the main example is the most beautiful conversion of a Mosin-Nagant I've ever seen. Lot's of pics!!

WyomingWhitetail
April 2, 2011, 01:10 PM
hmm 40-65 sounds like it might be fun, i had never heard of it before so i had to look it up and it sounds like it would be a fun gun to play with. Yet another caliber to add to my wish list. I know what ya mean about finding stuff around here. I think we only got one decent sporting goods store here in Laramie and they are mainly a fly shop with guns on as a side.

RwBeV
April 2, 2011, 03:17 PM
Hmmm I found a .458 barrel too, we might have to have more than one of these.

WyomingWhitetail
April 2, 2011, 08:42 PM
Hmm this might be interesting

gyvel
April 2, 2011, 09:52 PM
If this is a rifle that you are going to keep and treasure for the rest of your life, do it. If, on the other hand, you grow tired of it someday and try to sell it, expected to get back about 1/10th of what you put into it $$-wise.

WyomingWhitetail
April 2, 2011, 10:14 PM
i don't do projects like this ever thinking ill get my money back buy reselling. One of my other hobby is restoring on cars and trucks so ive already learned that with a project like this the only reason to do it is if you really want it with no thought of ever getting your money back. I got to look at one of these today and there are definately an interesting design, the action is much more closed in then say a mauser,I ran the bolt a couple of times and it seemed fairly smooth but the one that i looked at had like a quarter inch of packing grease on it so i didn't look too hard at it. I think ill just have to buy one of darn things so i can acutually tear it apart and see what i got to work with.

gyvel
April 3, 2011, 05:08 AM
Well, have at it then. Look at it this way: They have been around for 120 years now and still going strong. Ugly they may be, but they sure do last a long time.

tobnpr
April 3, 2011, 09:34 AM
You'll have a lot of fun with it. I did with mine, and I may do another just for the hell of it- you can buy a nice barreled action for $60- so why not?

The only real quandry with the MN is how you're going to handle the scope mount and bent bolt (assuming you're going to scope it).

Main thing is getting the bore cleaned up, hopefully you've got reasonably sharp lands all the way to the muzzle. Good luck.

Kappy
April 18, 2011, 02:33 AM
I sporterized mine. Scoped and bent. Cut and recrowned.

It shoots well. For a while, I was having problems with opening the bolt without a rubber mallet. Today, I discovered that if I fire a round and then pull back to re-cock it, the action opens up slick as a nice Mauser. That was pretty exciting.

MrWesson
April 18, 2011, 08:55 AM
If wanted to get into hunting(will some day) I would buy 2 91/30's off of JG sales for $80 each and sporterize the one in worse condition with a pistol scope.

I am in Florida and our deer are small and shots are usually under 100 so no real reason to sporterize it other than because I can(I think a 2x scope would be perfect).

Stephanie B
April 18, 2011, 08:52 PM
I bought a M-N for fun, thinking that I could modify the hell out of it. Turns out that it is an ex-PEM sniper.

All I did to make it more "shootable" was to install a Mojo rear sight. I kept the sight leaf/slider, so it can go back to original if I ever get around to re-snipering it.

apr1775
June 5, 2011, 08:13 AM
Finnish gunsmiths have been building sporters on these actions for years. They end up looking similar to a Mannlicher sporter. Scopes can be side mounted, so split rear bridge is not really an issue. The 7.62x54r is a great all around cartridge and ammo can be found cheap. There are also Finnish cartidges based on on it such as 9.3x53r or 6.3x53r (there is your quarter bore). Not hard to make your own wild cat. I've had an idea for one: the 6.5x55 swede has about the same size case body, just cut a chamber with a 6.5 swede reamer and resize 7.62 russian brass in a 6.5 die. You could also go larger, say 35 or 40. One of these sizes would also allow loading of revolver projectiles for lighter shooting. The larger bore sizes will require widening the magazine. Lots of options, go for it.

Jack O'Conner
June 5, 2011, 02:22 PM
This is my former Mosin rifle that was fitted with a walnut custom stock. I sold it in 2009 to help pay toward my daughter's wedding. So it goes.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Mosin1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Mosinactionopen-1.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Mosin2.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/Mosinbottom1.jpg

In my opinion, the safety device is poorly designed for hunting.

Jack

woody wood
June 5, 2011, 02:31 PM
i keep one of each-cheep and fun
i do like the ati stock i have but still will always like the classic look.