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SharpTJ
March 22, 2011, 09:20 PM
So I recently changed my foregrip from the wood to a black tactical grip. I wen to the range today and started off with 3 mis-fires. I figured I jacked something up, so I stripped it down and put it back together and still had the same problem.

After much frustration, I found there is about an 1/8" of play in the foregrip once I have chambered a round. IT will fire it I hold the grip all the way forward but if I let it come back that 1/8" it will not...I assume that little movement is not allowing the firing pin to strike the primer...but why?

I know I am missing something, but I don't what in the world I could have done?

Slugo
March 23, 2011, 09:33 AM
may sound stupid, but could you add a spacer of some kind, or even a steel washer to take up the gap. Just sayin'... :confused:

SharpTJ
March 23, 2011, 10:09 AM
Maybe I didn't give the best description...it is not just the grip moving...it is the bolt and everything...it only fries when everything if forced as far forward as possible. It wants to naturally rest about 1/8" from all the way forward..if that makes sense

Slugo
March 23, 2011, 10:23 AM
STJ, I'm sure it's an easy fix, for a gunsmith... :o

SharpTJ
March 23, 2011, 11:35 AM
I took it to one here and he blamed it on user error! It's definitely not user error! He did not live fire it any, but said he spec'd every part out and everything seemed fine...I will be trying another one in the area whenever I pick it back up...

JNewell
March 23, 2011, 12:48 PM
Does the problem disappear if you reinstall the original forend?

SharpTJ
March 23, 2011, 02:15 PM
Nope, it is always there.

markj
March 23, 2011, 02:32 PM
Can you take a pic of this and post it? Sounds like the bolt isnt coming forward enough for it to close and lock up.

SharpTJ
March 23, 2011, 02:47 PM
I don't have the gun here tp take a picture of.

Imagine you are looking at the ejection port, you chamber a round successfully, and the forearm is locked into the forward position.

At this point, the weapon should be ready to fire. If I press the trigger at this point, it will only fire if I consciously hold the forearm toward the end of the barrel. If I try to fire it from the position the forearm wants to rest, it will misfire.

The only thing different about the scenario is consciously pushing the forearm forward that 1/8' or so. You can see the bolt/ejection port moving when the forearm is pushed forward.

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/shotgun/sh05/winchester_1300_camp_defender.jpg

k511
March 23, 2011, 05:51 PM
check the side supports on the inside of the gun that hold the slide arm into place. Ive had these break before and not allow the slide to lock into place or not allow shell ejection.

if thats the problem these pieces can be found for 20-30 bucks.

hope that helps

Recoiljunky
March 23, 2011, 06:32 PM
Sence you say play in the bolt I would suspect the bar that locks the bolt foward when you have the hammer inside the gun cocked...
Just my 5 cents

TheKlawMan
March 23, 2011, 07:04 PM
I just replaced my corn cob (police style) synthetic fore end on my Remington 870 with a sythetic sporting style fore end and took a look at the manual for the Winchester 1300. They seem to be similar.

When you removed the original forend you had to remove the "slide arm cap" from the slide arm extesion. See parts 45 and 46 in the pdf. http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/ctgy/winchester-model-1300-parts


You will also see a part that is not numbered that looks like it could be a washer or a shim. Did your 1300 have one?

I wonder if you tightened your slide arm cap down all the way of if you are missing or need a washer or spacer. I would have thought the gun smith would have caught this but it seems likely that the problem is that becasue of the lack of a shim or the cap is not down all the way that your bolt is not fully forward to where it can lock.

This is a real SWAG since I have never even held a 1300.

Recoiljunky
March 23, 2011, 07:14 PM
Also have you tried putting back on the old foreend to see is the problem goes away. But the bar that pops up to lock the bolt when the hammer is cocked would be my first asumtion due to the bolt being able to only move 1/8th inch if I hear you correctly

SharpTJ
March 23, 2011, 09:08 PM
Yes, it only moves that much once a round is chambered. I will find the manual and check for a washer but I don't remember a washer or spacer anywhere.

TheKlawMan
March 24, 2011, 12:59 PM
SharpTJ, I am not sure what that washer is all about in the parts diagam. I watched a video of a long forearm being taken off of the slide and saw no washer/spacer.

TxGun
March 24, 2011, 01:13 PM
You do know Winchester famously called the 1300 "the speed pump"? It was designed to partially unlock a millisecond after firing and provide rearward momentum to the action/bolt so that the shooter could cycle the gun faster. Perfectly safe if operating properly. It was marketed by Winchester as the fastest pump shotgun available.

Now, I'm not saying you don't have a problem with your shotgun. Just giving you some info that you may not have been aware of.

dwaawd
March 24, 2011, 01:49 PM
I recently changed the stock fore end on my 1300 Defender. There was a thin washer/spacer on the front. It's about 1/16" thick. I didn't reuse it and haven't fired the shotgun yet so can't say I will have the same problem you have. I purchased my Defender in 1984 and don't know if newer versions have the "spacer".

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2210/713086/23739571/395893082.jpg

markj
March 24, 2011, 03:44 PM
You can see the bolt/ejection port moving when the forearm is pushed forward.


Sounds like it isnt locking up, the bolt locks then you fire, bolt then unlocks and lets the slide move rearward. I would take it down completly and look for any worn or bent parts that connect the bolt slide to the forearm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVROeqRYdoM

is a kewl vid showing takedown etc.

TheKlawMan
March 24, 2011, 04:22 PM
I was beginning to wonder about whether the spacer even exists but see that dwaad had one with his corn cob fore arm. Still, and assuming your model is like the one in the picure you posted, I am thinking the spacer may be needed to tighten the nut down on some models, but whether you have it on or not shouldn'e affect the bold from locking up. That would be the result of travel and he action bars should travel the same amount with or without spacer s long as the desing is such that travel of the slide on the magaine tube is not impeded

Now I don't know how the Win 1300 is set up, but on my 870 the fore arm nut comes to rest about 1/16" short of hitting the barrel guide ring and if I inadvertenly placed a spacer under that fore arm nut I imagine that it would be difficult to slide the rack all the way forward.

Is it possible that when you took your original fore arm off there was a spacer there but you didn't notice it because it was stuck to the base of the slide nut? Take ths slide off and I don't think you will have to dissassemble it. Possibly you can even leave it on the magazine as long as you take the barrel off so you can feel with your thumb nail and try to catch the edge of the spacer. Use a good flashligt.

The thing is if that was your problem, you tried putting the old fore arm on and it didn't change.

TheKlawMan
March 24, 2011, 05:51 PM
This may help you some time, but probably not now. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/31230323/TM-9-1005-303-14-Shotgun-Winchester-Model-1200-1968

SharpTJ
March 24, 2011, 07:47 PM
The bolt locks in the forward position but leaves just a bit of play AFTER it locks forward. I'm not sure where the spacer should go you are talking about?

TheKlawMan
March 24, 2011, 09:15 PM
IF THERE IS a spacer/shim it slides onto the slide arm extension between the forearm and the slide arm cap.

markj
March 25, 2011, 02:50 PM
Could the bolt release be stuck open? the lever by the trigger that lets the bolt open manually. Making the bolt never lock up? just thinking out loud. Wish I had it here in my mits so I could look it over.

SharpTJ
March 25, 2011, 10:47 PM
The bolt locks forward....once you cycle a round, you can not move the forearm back like you were going to cycle another round, but it has the 1/8" play that we are discussing

dwaawd
March 25, 2011, 11:34 PM
I have a tac pistol grip fore end on my Defender. I did not install the original spacer. There is no play/slop to the rear on my pistol grip with a round chambered. That spacer is only 1/16" thick and I don't see how that would account for the play you have.

My fore end came with end caps for a Win, moss, or Rem...could one have gotten mixed up when installing? (I know, stupid question?)

SharpTJ
March 26, 2011, 09:02 AM
yes, I had multiple adapters and I am 100% positive that I used the right ones.

TheKlawMan
March 26, 2011, 11:44 AM
Anyway you say the problem remains when you replace the original fore arm. Some picures of the male and female threads would really help.

Also, did the gunsmith you took it to find any play in it and does the play disappear with a round in the chamber? Do not test with a live round but use a snap cap or a spent round. If a spent round do not pull the trigger so as to avoid damaging the firing pin.

SharpTJ
March 26, 2011, 03:05 PM
I haven't extensively tested it with original forearm as I sent it off a couple days after I changed it. But I will try it and pay more attention when I pick it up in a day or so.

He noticed the play, but said it seemed ordinary to him and nothing to cause any problem. The play does not disappear with a round chambered.

What threads are wanting pictures of? The magazine tube threads and cap?

TheKlawMan
March 26, 2011, 04:48 PM
Ues the magazine cap and magazine threads.