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osallent
March 15, 2011, 09:17 PM
I was shopping for supplies for my new shotgun today at a local dealership when a man walked through the door and explained to the gun dealer that he had a restraining order issued 18 years before when his wife divorced him, and that the restraining order had expired many years ago, but other than that he had a clean record and wanted to know if he could buy a gun.

The dealer told the man that the local police no longer did these checks, and the only way for him to find out if he could own a gun was to buy one and see if he passed the background check, but he would risk paying for a gun he may or may not be able to own.

I was enraged at what I was listening for two reasons:

1) Is it true that if a restraining order is expired, you still can never own a gun? That doesn't seem right, and if it is, it seems messed up. I'm studying law, and I know for a fact that some family law lawyers tell the women to get a temporary restraining order because it will help the case, even if they have no reason to fear anything. And temporary restraining orders are handed out like candy without proof of anything.

2) It seemed hypocritical for this dealer to tell the man he couldn't run a simple $5 background check for him unless he bought a firearm that he may/or may not be able to take home. So what the dealer was basically saying was this: "Buy the gun, and if you don't qualify, I keep the money and the weapon since I have a no return policy." He didn't quite say it like that, but you get the point. Very immoral if you ask me.

I almost butted in to tell the man to get a lawyer and go buy a gun somewhere else than with this con-artist who calls himself a dealer, but decided instead not to cause a scene and left the store and went to another guns store instead to buy the supplies I needed.

Any thoughts on any of the two things above?

Kodyo
March 15, 2011, 09:24 PM
I agree, that seems really sketchy. I don't see why they couldn't run the background check prior to the sale and then have an easy sale after running it. I'm not a dealer though, so maybe there is some weird stipulation on background checks.

osallent
March 15, 2011, 09:24 PM
PS: I know it sounds like an odd question coming from a law student, but law school teaches you very little state law, only general legal doctrines....and for some reason my computer is not letting me log into the state's website to check the state statutes.

One thing is for sure, I think I will stick to my regular gun dealer from now on. This was the first time I shopped for gun supplies somewhere else (I really needed a new choke for the shotgun and this guy's place was closer to the range.) I noticed this guy's prices for everything was higher than my regular dealer....and I didn't like what he was telling that guy either.

raftman
March 15, 2011, 09:35 PM
Just about every dealer I've ever bought from didn't even take any money until after you've passed the background check, however, even if they did accept money before the would-be buyer goes through the check, if the buyer fails to pass, that does not entitle the dealer to keep both the money and the firearm.

GoOfY-FoOt
March 15, 2011, 09:39 PM
The dealer CAN'T keep the money. The "purchase" of a firearm is NOT complete until the buyer takes possession. The buyer can not legally take possession until the background check has been completed and a proceed was issued, or until three business days have elapsed.

As it stands, I don't know of a way to run someone through NCIS/FDLE without an attempt to purchase a firearm.

What you can do, is order a copy of your criminal history with dispositions, from all of the counties you had an arrest in, and read the laws for your state, and compare them.

ursavus.elemensis
March 15, 2011, 09:44 PM
I thought it was actually illegal for a prohibited person to attempt to buy a firearm, not just illegal for him to actually own one. In fact, I thought that if you try to buy a firearm and fail the background check, they advise you to appeal right away because otherwise the failed attempt itself is illegal and can result in the Police showing up at your door.

This is a case where the guy should be talking to a lawyer who is knowledgable about firearms law, and not asking a gun store clerk.

Let it Bleed
March 15, 2011, 09:45 PM
If your nics check disqualifies you from purchasing, it means just that. Buying a handgun is not a crapshoot where ya pays your money and take your chances. In otherwords, if you're prevented from purchasing from a FFL the sale cannot take place. Buyer keeps his money and seller keeps the gun.

I think the clerk simply meant he would have to try and purchase to find out. And really, unless he actually wants to purchase a handgun, the point is moot.

If the court order is expired, then it's not an obstacle. Can there be erroneous information on a background, sure. But these are clerical or ministerial issues.

If you ever deal with domestic relations in your practice, you may discover why many lawyers avoid it like the plague. Even so-called "good" people may become unhinged. There is no other field of law where you will witness more raw emotion.

osallent
March 15, 2011, 09:47 PM
I'm glad I've never done anything that would get me arrested or in any sort of trouble. All the background checks and paperwork to get a gun is bad enough as it is.

However, I was doing a background check on myself prior to applying to law school (just for fun to see what the records said about me) and I found out an ugly little thing about myself that I had forgotten: I had a traffic ticket from 10 years previous for $120 for crossing a solid line :(

I guess no one is perfect.

kylen
March 15, 2011, 10:14 PM
To me it sounds as if the Dealer was maybe feeding this guy manure so as not to waste his time if something did come back and he was unable to sell the firearm. In any case he was stereotyping him... that happens a lot. My grandfather who has money will pay straight cash for a car. But if he went to a dealership the way he normally looks (shorts tshirt) most people wouldn't think he had a buck to put down on a car. But they would be wrong.

Mello2u
March 16, 2011, 01:06 AM
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/farwalker/ATFform4473copy2.jpg
ATF Form 4473 Look at question 11.h.
"Are you subject to a court order restraining you from harassing, stalking or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner?"

This would seem to be the applicable Federal issue that the man you overheard was concerned about. Whether there are state laws which also apply I do not know. The pertinent language above to me would be ". . . subject to . . ." If the restraining order was many years old, I would argue that he is no longer subject to that order.

bravo124
March 16, 2011, 08:02 AM
He can't legally take his money. He didn't make a purchase yet until after the NICS check. The dealer must be smelling too much Hoppe's.

Daryl
March 16, 2011, 08:25 AM
An expired restraining order does not make him a prohibited possessor.

Daryl

oletymer
March 16, 2011, 08:37 AM
Apply for a concealed weapon permit and you will know if you would have a problem buying. If you get the permit then background checks are not required every time you buy a gun.

Don H
March 16, 2011, 02:06 PM
If you get the permit then background checks are not required every time you buy a gun.
That's not always true. A few years ago BATF notified a number of states that the permits they issued did not qualify for bypassing the NCIS check.

aarondhgraham
March 16, 2011, 02:18 PM
The dealer told the man that the local police no longer did these checks, and the only way for him to find out if he could own a gun was to buy one and see if he passed the background check, but he would risk paying for a gun he may or may not be able to own.

I had one dealer at a gun show try this lame trick on me,,,
He said I had to pay for the gun before he could call in the form 4473.

Now I know (barring some error) I will not be tuned down,,,
But no way in Hades am I going to hand over my money before he calls it in,,,
Even if I did pay first, and was denied by the powers that be, I would get my money back.

This is just trash merchandising at it's worst,,,
Find someone else to buy your gun from.

You simply don't give him your money until after you have cleared the 4473 process.

I hate predatory merchants!

Aarond

Aguila Blanca
March 16, 2011, 05:16 PM
If you get the permit then background checks are not required every time you buy a gun.
That's not always true. A few years ago BATF notified a number of states that the permits they issued did not qualify for bypassing the NCIS check.
You are confusing two issues.

If you can't pass a background check you won't be issued a carry license/permit. The background check for those is essentially the same as the NICS to buy a firearm.

And the fact that some states' CCWs don't qualify for BYpassing the NICS doesn't mean that you would not pass a NICS if your name is called in. It only means that for whatever reason the BATFE has a burr under their saddle about that state's permit process. So ... is getting a carry permit a 100 percent guarantee that you'll pass a NICS? No -- but it's a pretty good start at finding out.

Kreyzhorse
March 16, 2011, 06:18 PM
only way for him to find out if he could own a gun was to buy one and see if he passed the background check, but he would risk paying for a gun he may or may not be able to own.



Perhaps the dealer was just trying to convince the gentleman from even starting the process because he didn't think he'd pass the background check. I'm sure the dealer hears a lot of "I'm not sure if I can pass but let's fill out the forms and see....."

orionengnr
March 16, 2011, 10:03 PM
Sounds like he and Nancy Pelosi might have been classmates (We have to pass the Bill so we can find out what is in the Bill...) :barf:

Both of the above should be standing in an unemployment line, or better yet, behind bars.

Unethical at best, criminal at worst.

At the local (DFW TX area) gun shows, some vendors display a sign that if you fail the background check, you will be charged $15. So it appears that they can run the check pre-purchase.

(I have a TX CHL so for me it is a non-issue...)

StrongSideArmsInc
March 16, 2011, 10:42 PM
It seemed hypocritical for this dealer to tell the man he couldn't run a simple $5 background check for him unless he bought a firearm

I am not sure if it runs different from state to state. I am a dealer, and I was instructed by my assigned ATF investigator, that I could not run a check until the weapon was paid for. Physical possesion of the weapon is not met, until the 4473 form is filled out and the weapon is paid for. In fact, the regs state, that if the background check is denied, the weapon has to placed on hold for 30 days, until the completetion of the appeal process and is is still considered the persons' who bought it. If they fail the appeal process, most dealers I know return the monies, minus 10%.

An FFL dealer got stung by ATF in Orlando for doing back ground checks without the purchase of a firearm. I believe the reason why they do this, is to help track straw purchases and track people who are trying to by guns that can't own them. Plus, when you call in a background check, and you have to tell the operator, handgun, long gun, or both. Also, you have to indicate in your log books the corresponding firearm with transaction, even if it is a denied.

When I have visted the shot show, I have spoken to other dealers from around the country and rules and regs seem to vary from area to area. I think it has alot to do with the ATF regional offices, and their particular interputation of the regs or how they choose to run things.

FrankenMauser
March 17, 2011, 02:20 AM
One of my brothers had domestic violence charges brought against him a few years ago. As such, he had to get rid of his firearms (still in the family), and forfeited his CCW permit.

Over the course of 12-18 months, all charges were dropped.

Earlier this year, he wanted to apply for a Pronghorn Antelope tag. Before doing so, we told him to check on the legality of possessing a firearm (he never got a clear ruling on the subject, after the charges were dropped).

After many, many phone calls to various agencies; his only option was going to the local BCI office in person.

Long story short:
BCI told him they could not tell him if he was able to buy a gun, unless he tried to do it. He has to attempt to buy a firearm, in order to find out if it is legal to do so. If the BCI check gets approved, he can buy a firearm and/or possess them. If it gets denied, he can pursue the matter further at that time.

The way I understand it, the current process goes back to a bill that passed just after 9/11. It is illegal for BCI to check the background of an individual, without being prompted by a firearm purchase or law enforcement inquiry.
(The same bill that blocked public access to DMV records. ...A topic that really gets me angry when I get door-dinged, hit in a parking lot, or hit by drive-by vandals - but LEOs won't fill out a report, because the damage isn't a high enough dollar value by their uneducated, eyeballed estimates.)


My brother called around, to see if any of the shops would be willing to make a quick $50 for nothing, but a background check on a firearm that would instantly be "returned". No one would do it. They claimed it wasn't worth the risk, an some stated it was out-right illegal. Whether they don't want to "waste" their time, or it is actually against some kind of regulation - he's going to have to save his money for a new firearm, before he can find out if he's even legal to possess one.

Stiofan
March 17, 2011, 03:54 AM
Here's the current Florida law:

It is unlawful for:
any convicted felon to have in his or her possession any firearm or to carry a concealed weapon unless his civil rights have been restored.

The following persons to own, possess or use any firearm - drug addicts, alcoholics, mental incompetents, and vagrants.

For persons to have in their care, custody, possession, or control any firearm or ammunition if the person has been issued a final injunction that is currently in force and effect, restraining that person from committing acts of domestic violence.

Last paragraph pretty much makes it clear the restraining order must be currently in effect to deny purchase.

markj
March 17, 2011, 02:46 PM
Why not go to the sheriffs office and ask them to run your info. After Brady laws went into effect the state allowed sheriffs to give out permits to purchase for buying handguns, now it is req by law. Depending on your state they may be able to help you out.

If he wants to see if he can buy a gun, why doesnt he just go and buy one? A 100.00 rossi single shot shotgun would do it.

FrankenMauser
March 17, 2011, 03:02 PM
Why not go to the sheriffs office and ask them to run your info. After Brady laws went into effect the state allowed sheriffs to give out permits to purchase for buying handguns, now it is req by law. Depending on your state they may be able to help you out.

If he wants to see if he can buy a gun, why doesnt he just go and buy one? A 100.00 rossi single shot shotgun would do it.

The laws in this state don't allow that as an option. BCI controls the information, and won't access it without a valid reason (firearm purchase, or LE inquiry).

And... we have no use for a Rossi single shot. Buying a firearm that won't be used is a waste of money. Another brother, and I, are in the market for a couple of firearms. We have spent a bit of time, trying to find a legal way to allow the "grey area" brother to try purchasing something for us. But... we always decide there is no way around it being a straw purchase. (No matter what the circumstances are, it would be our money. By definition, that's a straw purchase.)

He'll just have to save his money, and find something for himself.
(He'll be needing a new .30-06, anyway. The one he sold off when he was charged will not be leaving the hands of its current owner.)

James K
March 17, 2011, 03:19 PM
I don't know where it is in writing, if at all, but dealers have told me that BATFE policy is that the background (NICS) check is to be used ONLY in connection with the purchase of a gun, not for checking up on your cousin Joe, your daughter's boyfriend, or the guy who wants to borrow money from you. I suspect dealers want to make sure the prospective buyer is serious before running the check; it is a PITA and takes time and if there is no intent to purchase a gun it might be seen as not "in connection" with a gun sale.

Jim

ursavus.elemensis
March 17, 2011, 08:39 PM
Having never been subjected to the business end of a protection from abuse order, I am wondering, Do these things have some sort of expiration date? The OP mentions that the restraining order was long ago. Is it still in effect, and if not, how do you KNOW it is not in effect. In other words, did it have an expiration date? Did it get revoked by a court order? Do your homework, find out if it is still in effect, and then get a good lawyer who understands gun laws in your state. Isn't there an NRA database of lawyers who understand gun case law?

Sounds like at least 2 forum members have found out first hand that, NO, you can't even pay someone to run a background check unless you are seriously trying to actually buy a firearm. But I still think that TRYING to buy a firearm as a prohibited person is illegal in and of itself, so he is kind of stuck. the only way to find out if he is going to be deemed a prohibited person is if he tries to buy a firearm, but according to me, if he does and fails the background check, he is guilty of being a prohibited person and trying illegally to obtain a firearm.

Get yourself qualified legal counsel as sson as you can.

osallent
March 17, 2011, 08:47 PM
I don't know if the guy's old restraining order is gone or what...I was just at the shop buying a new choke for my shotgun and happened to overhear the conversation. They were talking loud enough that it was hard not to hear the conversation where I was standing.

The only reason I started the thread is out of curiosity to see what the laws/procedures are in these cases, since I have no clue about it. As far as I am concerned, the only time I will really worry is when the Feds pass a law that if you ever had a traffic citation, you can't own a firearm. That's where my 10 year old ticket for "Crossing a Solid Line" will come to haunt me. :(

For some reason as the thread went on, everyone assumed I was talking about myself, but am not. I am happily legally allowed to own firearms...check out my thread in the shotgun forum from a day or two ago where I show my new baby, a Remington 870. That's the shotgun I was buying the choke for.:cool:

ursavus.elemensis
March 17, 2011, 08:53 PM
Dang it if rural Maryland isn't famous for the "you crossed the yellow line" tickets. How the heck can you fight that in court? Where's the proof of your innocence going to come from? Very frustrating. My one and only time I got ensnared in that led to my policy that they may make me pay the ticket, but they're going to spend an equal or greater amount of money paying the cop overtime to go to court and paying the district judge and the office staff and the electric bill for lights and air conditioning, and paying for the paper for the ticket and paying for the postage to send me the letters, etc.

Dragline45
March 17, 2011, 09:28 PM
Every time I go to buy a firearm as I fill out the paperwork the dealer always says "alright I have to go call the FBI and run a background check". So from what I understand it is as simple as a phone call.

44 AMP
March 17, 2011, 10:32 PM
There are some misconceptions being repeated here, along with some truth. It does appear that the law tells FFL dealers they can only run the check (phone call) if you are buying a gun. However, failing the instant check does not automatically mean you are a prohibited person.

As was noted, there are many things that can give you a "delayed", or even a "denied" response, without you being a prohibited person. That's why there is an appeals process. I know one individual who got delayed, because his file was flagged. He was not a prohibited person. Yet his file was flagged. The official on the other end of the phone doesn't know why a file is flagged, only if it is, or not. The details get resolved in the appeals process. As it turned out, my friend with the flagged file had been flagged because he had a govt. security clearance! He did get his gun, and got the "flag" issue resolved as well.

I'm no lawyer, and don't claim to be, but I am under the impression that if the sale is denied, the dealer MUST return ALL the money you give him. Ethically, he has to give you either your money, or the gun. Anything else is fraud. I have bought a number of guns from dealers over the years, and never had a single one of them even ring up the sale before making the phone call.

Apply for a concealed weapon permit and you will know if you would have a problem buying. If you get the permit then background checks are not required every time you buy a gun.

Incorrect. Getting a permit will tell you that you are not a prohibited person, but it does not get you out of the dealer making the instant check phone call. That is the dealer's responsibility, and must be done for every purchase, every time, no matter what kind of permit you have. What a permit may get you out of (depending on individual state law) is the waiting period. The Brady law required a waiting period for handguns (so a background check could be done). This was a Federal law, and independent of state law. If your state required a waiting period, it could be concurrent with the Brady law waiting period. The deal struck by the NRA and the Feds was that when the instant check became possible (which it wasn't when the law was passed), in exchange for dropping the waiting period, the instant check (phone call) would be done for all firearms, not just handguns.

Which is what we have today. Individual states, which had waiting periods for handguns, before the Brady Law, kept them. I live in a state with a waiting period for handguns. 3 business days, the last time I checked. Totally independent of Federal law. However, my state also says that if you have a CPL, the waiting period is waived. Again, totally independent of Fed Law. Different states have different laws.

So, If I buy a handgun from a dealer, I fill out the fed forms, dealer makes the fed phone call, and with my state CPL permit, I pay the dealer, and walk out with the gun. Without the state CPL, the exact same thing happens, except I don't get to walk out with the gun, I come back in 3 days and pick it up.

NO state permit waives the Fed background check phone call.

osallent
March 17, 2011, 10:40 PM
44 AMP is correct. With my CCW permit I can get the firearm on the same day, but the dealer calls in for a background check every time.

markj
March 18, 2011, 03:32 PM
Incorrect. Getting a permit will tell you that you are not a prohibited person, but it does not get you out of the dealer making the instant check phone call.

No call is made in Iowa, the permit is all you need. I should say a permit to purchase pistols and revolvers or a permit to carry weapons. It is all you need here.

I had a restraining order on me was 4 years ago. Never lost my permit. I just got the new permit to carry. Tell tha guy dont worry, go for it.

Everyone can use a 410 single shot :) or 12ga or 20ga....

44 AMP
March 19, 2011, 01:10 PM
No call is made in Iowa, the permit is all you need. I should say a permit to purchase pistols and revolvers or a permit to carry weapons. It is all you need here.



I have to wonder what it is about Iowa that makes it different from other states. I am under the impression that the FFL dealer having to make the call is Fed regulation/law, and not able to be waived by a state permit.

Iowans, help me understand, please.

Microgunner
March 19, 2011, 01:27 PM
In Florida you cannot run a background check unless a form 4473 is completed and you can't complete a form 4473 unless a firearms transfer is taking place.

There is a provision in the law that allows a pawnshop to precheck a person prior to pawning their firearm, but we are not supposed to run background checks without a complete 4473. When the BATFE audits they sometimes count the number of completed 4473s in our files and compare this number to the number of background checks called in. These numbers should match.

I believe this is to ensure the authorities ability to prosecute, if deemed appropriate, any person who has lied on the form 4473, a felony in Florida.

Let it Bleed
March 19, 2011, 04:23 PM
I have to wonder what it is about Iowa that makes it different from other states. I am under the impression that the FFL dealer having to make the call is Fed regulation/law, and not able to be waived by a state permit.

Iowans, help me understand, please.
I'm not an Iowan, but I think I can shed a little light on the issue as follows:

It is federal law that allows some State issued carry licenses to substitute for the NICS. BATF sends a letter to licensed dealers in States they determine meet the exemption criteria.

The requirements for a state to be exempted from the N.I.C.S are:

1) Is the license or permit valid for five (5) years or less;

2) Had a N.I.C.S. check performed and passed during the license application process; and

3) Is the license or pemit denied to anyone prohibited from possessing firearms under federal, state, or local law.


The regulation exempting states from the instant check is 27 C.F.R. (Code of Federal Regulations).


Here is the relevant text from 27 CFR 478.102 that allows State issued concealed carry permits to be exempt from the National Instant Check System (NICS):

(d) Exceptions to NICS check. The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply if (1) The transferee has presented to the licensee a valid permit or license that (i) Allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm; (ii) Was issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in which the transfer is to take place; and (iii) The law of the State provides that such a permit or license is to be issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law: Provided, That on and after November 30, 1998, the information available to such official includes the NICS; (2) The firearm is subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act and has been approved for transfer under 27 CFR part 479; or (3) On application of the licensee, in accordance with the provisions of 478.150, the Director has certified that compliance with paragraph (a)(1) of this section is impracticable.

FrankenMauser
March 19, 2011, 05:45 PM
the only way to find out if he is going to be deemed a prohibited person is if he tries to buy a firearm, but according to me, if he does and fails the background check, he is guilty of being a prohibited person and trying illegally to obtain a firearm.

If you are following the prescribed method for legally obtaining firearms (and answering truthfully), according to State and Federal law; how does that become 'attempting to illegally obtain a firearm'?

It sounds more like 'attempting to legally obtain a firearm' to me; even if the person (as it turns out) cannot legally purchase the firearm.

Microgunner
March 19, 2011, 06:19 PM
FrankenMauser is correct. If a prohibited person answers the questions truthfully on the form 4473 the dealer will deny the sale then and there without callling in a background check. If the prohibited person lies on the 4473 and the dealer calls in the background check and the person is denied he/she has 21 days to appeal if they think they were denied wrongfully. In the meantime the FFL dealer is required to report the denied firearm purchase attempt to the local authority for investigation and/or prosecution if deemed warrented.

AH.74
March 20, 2011, 06:56 AM
44 AMP- it's not just Iowa, there are other states that handle it the same way. I believe AZ and TX are among them.

markj
March 21, 2011, 02:51 PM
I have to wonder what it is about Iowa that makes it different from other states.

Nebr same way. Is a state law thing, your state can do the same so get emails and phone calls started now. No waiting period, if you are OK to carry a weapon isnt it safe to say you are OK to buy one too? :) the background check has been done for the permit, why duplicate things and make it cost more? is common sense but when have politicos shown that? :)

Usertag
March 21, 2011, 02:57 PM
That is Just a Full Load of it. You should be allowed to buy a gun or just get a simple backround check. No paper or man should tell you. That you don't have the right to Protection, it is just Immoral. But sorry I can't help, Hope you the best.

bearone2
March 21, 2011, 03:58 PM
aguila blanca:
"If you can't pass a background check you won't be issued a carry license/permit. The background check for those is essentially the same as the NICS to buy a firearm."

ccw is much more stringent than buying a firearm and why in az and many states, having the ccw doesn't require the nics check.

HKFan9
March 21, 2011, 07:48 PM
As a dealer, like others have stated... we need to have the 4473 filled out before calling in the check. Reason being like others have stated.... ATF counts them, and the call is to see if someone is approved or delayed or denied from buying a firearm. When someone fills out the forms and answers the questions, they then sign it saying they told the truth. If they did tell the true and any of the questions are Yes, we deny the sale and don't make a phone call.

If they fill out the form correctly, sign it that its the truth.... when its NOT. They usually get denied and we as the dealer have to log these... along with faxing the paperwork in to the operator on the phone. I have even had police units dispatched and arrested people in the middle of the shop.

The paperwork MUST be filled out before calling from a dealer standpoint. We never ring up the gun or anything before the phone call.

bearone2
March 21, 2011, 08:32 PM
yo, atf never sees the form unless they do an audit, nics check is done by the fbi.

Let it Bleed
March 21, 2011, 08:36 PM
I posted the answer to 44 AMP's question regarding Concealed Carry Permits and exemption to the National Instant Check System (NICS) in Post 34 if anyone is interested. ;)

HKFan9
March 21, 2011, 08:53 PM
Well the ATF see's my forms... They have been standing next to me in the shop before, they can also come in and do an audit on the black powder logs as well. In PA I call PICS not NICS, virtually the same thing, but its Pennsylvania Instant Check System, run by our state police.

bearone2
March 21, 2011, 09:02 PM
is there an echo here, i said if they do an audit a couple posts ago.

and being state run i bet the buyer pays, whether pass/fail.

Crankylove
March 21, 2011, 11:05 PM
For all of my firearms purchases, they have me fill out the 4473, then they fax it and wait for it to come back good (or now, they call in to verify my carry permit) before ringing the sale. All the local stores I have been to (from mom 'n pop to national chains) do it this way in my area........so maybe some people are confused about the regs, or just want to make sure the buyer actually has the money for the sale before they go to the trouble of the background check.

As Frankenmauser stated, our brother has contacted everybody from the local BATF office, state courts, county sherrif, city police, and anybody in between, and all had the same answer.........go try and buy a firearm.......if it goes through, it must be legal for you........if it doesn't, its not legal.

Dr. Strangelove
March 21, 2011, 11:32 PM
In Georgia, you either have a GA Firearms License (CCW) or you get the phone call for all firearms purchases. The call is not made if you have the license.

Either way, we can walk out with our firearms, long guns or pistols, as soon as we buy them, no waiting.

busboy
March 22, 2011, 12:59 PM
As others have mentioned, at worst you would come up as "delayed". They will usually tell you a specific date you will be delayed until. During this time someone will go into your file and see why you were flagged for delay. In your case they will see that the restraining order has expired, and mark you as cleared. They often get this done much sooner than the date they tell you. The one time this happened to me I was told i was delayed until a few weeks out, but I got a call from my dealer just a week later saying I was in the clear.

Also, charging for a failed background check is perfectly reasonable. Pass or fail it costs the store money to call in a background check. Even if you fail you had the store to do a service for you, it is only right that you pay for it. However, having you still pay for the gun if you fail is just absurd.

natman
March 22, 2011, 01:28 PM
In California, you can do a dry run in order to verify your status:

CA DOJ FAQ: (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#30)
"I'm not sure whether I can legally possess and/or purchase firearms. Is there a way to find out before I attempt to purchase one?

Yes. You may request the Department of Justice to conduct a firearms eligibility background check by submitting a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC) to the Department of Justice. For more information about how to request a PFEC, please visit our PFEC FAQ section (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pfecfaqs.php). Applications are also available through your local firearms dealer."

BNOBrien
March 23, 2011, 12:45 AM
nvm