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museumguy
March 14, 2011, 07:26 AM
What gun is Huey P. Newton (Black Panther founder-Chicago, ca. 1968) holding in this photo?

http://www.africawithin.com/bios/huey_newton.htm

Our museum is developing an exhibit about 1968 and we want to use this image and would like to get a gun that matches the photo. Thank you all for your help identifying the last picture (a High Standard Riot Gun), but now the team is choosing this image for the exhibit. Any help would be appreciated!

natman
March 14, 2011, 08:56 AM
Bolt action
LONG barrel
Protruding magazine
Recoil lug above receiver

I'm going to guess a bolt action shotgun similar to the Marlin Goose Gun 12 ga.

BANG
March 14, 2011, 09:15 AM
It sure looks like a Mossberg 195--12 ga, bolt-action, 2-round magazine and their "C-Lect-Choke". This gun does have a protrusion above the receiver, like in the photo, but I'm not sure what it is.

This gun introduced in 1954 and last produced in 1958.

Contact the Havlin's at www.mossbergcollectors.org for further info on this gun.

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 03:21 PM
I may be wrong but I think that protrusion is a non adjustable rear sight. IIRC there is a recoil lug between the receiver and the barrel and the top of the recoil lug has a notched rear sight in it. I am not for certain though.

markj
March 14, 2011, 03:33 PM
Why do you care? Them BPs blew up the Omaha police dept killing some officers. My cousin was on duty but was on patrol. Terrorists doing terroristic activities. I remember them days, I was there.

Hawg Haggen
March 14, 2011, 03:34 PM
It does appear to be a rear sight and have a front sight as well.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/my%20junk/huey_p_newtonundated-bw-med-lrg.jpg

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 03:41 PM
Good eyes. I missed the front sight. I had a bolt action 12 that had that type of rear sight but just had a bead for the front sight. I don't remember what brand it was. It did have a two round box magazine.

davlandrum
March 14, 2011, 03:42 PM
How can you even tell it is a shotgun????

egor20
March 14, 2011, 03:47 PM
Rear sights on a Mossberg 195
http://www.icollector.com/images/1206/17270/17270_0457_1_lg.jpg

Rear sights on a Marlin Goose gun
http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/6847212120/9058496/f3176ce3889ad5afa2ce9a7e47763eb3.jpg

The magazine on the Mossberg seems to cant forward.

The magazine on the Marlin seems to cant to the back.

The picture of the gun Huey has is too blurry to tell.

Sorry:confused:

egor20
March 14, 2011, 03:50 PM
How can you even tell it is a shotgun????

Muzzle choke on the end of the barrel.

pabuckslayer08
March 14, 2011, 04:41 PM
I know what you mean but im thinking more like a cheap flash supressor on a big bore, looks nothing like a shotgun to me. Big bore .454

Hawg Haggen
March 14, 2011, 05:32 PM
How can you even tell it is a shotgun????

Muzzle choke on the end of the barrel.

I might be wrong but I don't think it is. I think it's just a trick of the light. The barrel looks too slender to be a shotgun unless it's a 410.

natman
March 15, 2011, 03:55 AM
I know what you mean but im thinking more like a cheap flash supressor on a big bore, looks nothing like a shotgun to me. Big bore .454

The barrel is ridiculously long for a rifle. Does this look like a shotgun to you?:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/nat_mann/DSCF0662.jpg

Note the long barrel, the magazine, the recoil lug "rear sight". This one's a Marlin Goose Gun but the bolt is not quite the same as the pictured gun, so I'll go along with the Mossberg 195 with C-lect choke.

Hawg Haggen
March 15, 2011, 11:35 AM
The barrel is ridiculously long for a rifle.

Not to me it isn't.

Does this look like a shotgun to you?:

Yes it does

johnbt
March 15, 2011, 01:09 PM
Looks like a Mossberg 390 to me.

The Marlin goose guns had the bolt handle well in front of the trigger guard. The same goes for the Mossberg 195, although I don't know all their models.

natman
March 16, 2011, 03:56 AM
Looks like a Mossberg 390 to me.

I suspect you're right.

Bolt's in the right place, trigger guard and pistol grip are the same, magazine, recoil lug and add-on choke.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e166/nat_mann/mossberg390hn.jpg

Double Naught Spy
March 16, 2011, 05:25 AM
I suspect you're right.

Bolt's in the right place, trigger guard and pistol grip are the same, magazine, recoil lug and add-on choke.

Naw, that can't be a match. The buttpads are different and there isn't a color match. :D

Actually, that is a good looking match, even down to the choke.

Why do you care? Them BPs blew up the Omaha police dept killing some officers. My cousin was on duty but was on patrol. Terrorists doing terroristic activities. I remember them days, I was there.

The OP clearly stated...
Our museum is developing an exhibit about 1968 and we want to use this image and would like to get a gun that matches the photo.

It may come as a shock to you, but some museums like to provide information about their exhibits and have to do research on the materials with which they are working before sharing those materials with the public. If they are using the picture for a display, folks will inquire as to what is in the image and so it is good to have the information or to actually present the information in the exhibit.

Huey P. Newton may have started the Black Panthers, but is not known to be tied to the bombing you mentioned. He was found guilty in the death of another police officer after a shooting, however.

The BPs did some bad stuff, no doubt, but the weapons of bad guys are often of interest to people and bad guys, unfortunately, are a part of our history.

Scout
March 16, 2011, 06:09 AM
My first gun was a Mossberg 385 KB. I have given it to my son now. It is a 20 gauge shotgun of the design in the photo. Mossberg also made similar shotguns in other bore sizes.

BANG
March 16, 2011, 07:58 AM
I agree that the gun is probably a Mossberg 390 versus the 195 as I originally posted. The bolt handle is over the trigger of the 390, as shown in the picture in question, but more forward--between the trigger guard and magazine--on the 195.

TheKlawMan
March 16, 2011, 12:47 PM
Looking at the photo doesn't the magazine project further from the stock than does the one in th picture of the 390. Also, back then many weapons were cut down (sporterized) WWII weapons from some country sold throught the mail. Still, it looks so much like that 390, I would check with Mossberg and see if they made a variant of the same modle with a modified magazine.

natman
March 16, 2011, 01:58 PM
Looking at the photo doesn't the magazine project further from the stock than does the one in th picture of the 390.

The gun in color is a 16 ga. Perhaps Huey's gun is a 12. A 12 ga mag would be longer. The Mossberg 390 was offered in 20, 16 and 12.

TheKlawMan
March 16, 2011, 04:07 PM
A video on youtube suggests that it would have been possible to have a 5 or even a 7 round 16 gauge magazine. Huey's may be a 5?

markj
March 16, 2011, 04:27 PM
It may come as a shock to you

No, many people love to dwell on bad people, some idolize them. It just isnt my cup of tea, I saw that photo and asked my question. Some of us here know what they were all about, I do anyway.

Double Naught Spy
March 16, 2011, 08:17 PM
No, many people love to dwell on bad people, some idolize them. It just isnt my cup of tea, I saw that photo and asked my question. Some of us here know what they were all about, I do anyway.

So what does a technical query about a gun have to do with idolizing bad people and who said it was an idol exhibit?

egor20
March 16, 2011, 08:34 PM
Its a technical and historical question. Don't we always say it's the people whom use the gun, not the guns fault.

museumguy
March 17, 2011, 10:39 AM
Thank you for your help identifying the gun in the photo. In the history museum, one of our main goals is to have the visitor see an image, artifact, or presentation and share with each other what that means. Everyone brings a different point of view-we encourage that to be shared so everyone is richer. Not to belabor the point, but the very first object visitor's will encounter when they visit the 1968 Exhibit is a real Huey helicopter-which we (me and a bunch of vets) are having fun in the shop preparing for display. The exhibit is a challenge to each of us to ponder our experience in 1968 (and tell our kids and grandkids). A lot of stuff happened-good and bad. Thanks again for the help! I'm off to find a Mossberg 390.

markj
March 17, 2011, 03:16 PM
Don't we always say it's the people whom use the gun, not the guns fault

I agree, that gun is innocent :) but the holder of said gun...

What is the name of this museum? and location.

Had an Uncle went to Nam, he did 3 tours, made him a DI in SD, he crashed his caddy and died there.

My good friend flew hueys in NAM, still has his 357 issue.

BPs had what to do with NAM? They were on the lines of malcolm x, did more to hurt the movement than they helped it.

Are you doing anything on the chicago 7? :) Was for the dem party convention for the 68 election.

I lived in chi town in 1968, were a few riots there.

Good read : "Fear and loathing on the campaign trail" Dr. Hunter Thompson

phishisgroovin
April 9, 2011, 11:11 PM
if someone knows where to locate one of these magazine besides overpriced shipping numerich please do tell me!

hogdogs
April 10, 2011, 12:22 AM
Here you go... I think this link is about this museum's 1968 exhibit...

http://events.mnhs.org/media/news/release.cfm?ID=2162

Brent

johnbt
April 10, 2011, 10:52 AM
Interesting summary of the high points of 1968. That was the year I finished high school.