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iMagUdspEllr
March 13, 2011, 07:17 PM
I was considering getting either a Ruger Mini-14 (the one with the retractable stock, pistol grip, rails, etc) or the Arsenal SGL21 AK.

I read about the Mini-14s not being very accurate but AKs generally aren't very accurate either so that isn't too much of an issue. I am leaning towards the Mini-14 because I get last shot bolt hold open with it. Thanks for the suggestions in advance.

RT
March 13, 2011, 08:47 PM
Kalashnikovs are not considered accurate because of the old, surplus, beaten-up rifles that are floating around. I assure that the brand new Arsenal builds are quite accurate and the 2 stage trigger is a nice feature.

http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n443/thorm001/New%20guns/IMG_1254.jpg

iMagUdspEllr
March 13, 2011, 08:55 PM
Nice rifle. How does it shoot? I just personally have never seen an AK do better than 2-3 MOA. And the "standard" kinda is 1-2 MOA for a semi-auto. I would be thrilled to learn that AKs can be that accurate as well, though.

raftman
March 13, 2011, 10:43 PM
Arsenal SGL21 for sure. Simpler design, lower maintenance, superior reliability, and without any real drawbacks compared to the given alternative (unless you're to debate the ballistics). If you're a believer in the merits of the .223/5.56 round, I'd sooner pick almost ANY semi-auto rifle in .223/5.56 over the Mini.

Bamashooter
March 14, 2011, 02:50 AM
I voted for the mini. I think its a better gun than the AK. The newer mini's are more accurate than the older ones, I know mine is. The AK might be as reliable as a mini, I dont think its more reliable. Mini's are famous for being reliable. Its very easy to break down for cleaning, so is the AK. You would be happy with the mini no matter what some people here say, they are very good rifles. If I was going to get an AK it wouldnt be the 7.62x39 version. I just think that past 200yrds its not a very good gun.

iMagUdspEllr
March 14, 2011, 06:27 AM
Another reason why I'm leaning towards the Mini is because I'm a southpaw and the safety is located on the trigger guard unlike the AK which is more biased for right handed users.

@raftman: Well honestly I'm not worried about terminal ballistics I'm more concerned with accuracy (or precision rather). What kind of groups is everyone getting with their Mini/AK?

kd7sgm
March 14, 2011, 07:56 AM
The New Aks may be more accurate, but so are the new minis. I think you will be suprised how nice the new 580 series minis are compared to the older models, as well as the AK. IMHO the AK has all the charm, feel and desirability of a floor jack

mavracer
March 14, 2011, 08:40 AM
The New Aks may be more accurate, but so are the new minis. I think you will be suprised how nice the new 580 series minis are compared to the older models, as well as the AK. IMHO the AK has all the charm, feel and desirability of a floor jack
well stated.
the new Minis have a little heavier barrel, My brother has a new Mini tactical (the one with the pretty wood) and it will do 1 to 1.5 moa with ammo it likes.

A lot of accuracy issues with both guns is due to ammo. cheap surplus ammo won't do better than 2" at 100 out of my heavy barreled Savage where it'll do 1/2" with good ammo.

Skans
March 14, 2011, 10:07 AM
I'll take the Mini-14 over a stamped receiver AK. I'll take a milled underfolder over a stock Mini-14.

My reasons have nothing to do with performance - just which rifle is the better long-term value.

SwampYankee
March 14, 2011, 10:42 AM
Arsenal SGL21 for sure. Simpler design, lower maintenance, superior reliability, and without any real drawbacks compared to the given alternative (unless you're to debate the ballistics). If you're a believer in the merits of the .223/5.56 round, I'd sooner pick almost ANY semi-auto rifle in .223/5.56 over the Mini.

Simpler design. Perhaps. Maybe even probably. But in this case, it does not matter much.

Lower maintenance. The Mini has a lot of slop. I've put a couple thousand rounds through mine without a cleaning. No problems.

Superior reliability. I've never had a reliability problems with either of my Mini's. Both are 181 models from the 1970's. The chambers are generously cut and will take even rounds with a buckled shoulder, something you won't get out of an AR.

From my perspective, the important difference is the cost of the gun and the cost of ammo. You'll probably pay more for .223 and the Mini 14 (new) will be more expensive. But there is always the Mini-30. I've got 2 AR's and 2 Mini's. The AR's are definitely more accurate. The Mini's are more reliable (especially with cheap ammo or ammo that is not small base-die resized). For fun, I prefer the Mini's. For self defense, I would go with one of the AR's.

eastbank
March 14, 2011, 11:51 AM
when you go to the dance ask the girl you like, this happens to be the girl i like to take to the dance. eastbank.

mavracer
March 14, 2011, 12:18 PM
wow eastbank just too much ugly to fit in one picture.lol

Sorry had to.

eastbank
March 14, 2011, 12:38 PM
the top one is the good looking cousin and the bottom one is a ugly step sister. eastbank.

kd7sgm
March 14, 2011, 12:58 PM
East, those are some lovely ladies.:D

Art Eatman
March 14, 2011, 01:25 PM
Years back, I traded into and out of the early-model Mini-14s. I've had four of them. I agree with anybody that they will never be noted for small-sized groups.

But that was irrelevant to my intended use: Hunting and maybe home defense. The first shot or two always, repeat, always, went to the intended point of aim, much to the disgust of coyotes and jackrabbits. Since reliability was somewhere between 100% and Perfect, I figured that it would work as well for defensive use as any other .223 known to mankind.

But, somebody came along and made me an offer which was too profitable to pass, so for now I don't have one. Still have a factory 10-round mag, though, in case of in case. :)

Ac1d0v3r1d3
March 14, 2011, 01:33 PM
I will preface this and say that I have no experience with the Mini-14 platform. Honestly I've not been terribly impressed with the AK's that I have owned (all romanian) But for a "tactical" rifle I think there is no better (stock) rifle for the money. There are lots accessories for them as well. I think the Mini has just as many though. I think over all it's a wash, either rifle would be acceptable. The 7.62 gives you more utility, if that matters.
I don't care for pistol grip stocks and don't need a light or scope etc, so I am happy with my stock SKS for a "tactical" rifle. I think if you are more interested in accuracy and precision you'd be much better off with a bolt gun. I shoot my Remington 30-06 much more often than I shoot my other rifles.
YMMV
-Chris

Katophract
March 14, 2011, 04:30 PM
AK, all the way. I've seen too many Mini's break down in my training classes. Also, I happen to like the 7.62x39 round better than a 5.56, but that's personal preference. Get which ever one you want most or you'll just end up regretting it.

Katophract
March 14, 2011, 04:31 PM
Oh, there's also a LOT more after market for the AK and more plentiful/reliable mags.

stu925
March 14, 2011, 06:24 PM
I'd go with the Mini. I just got mine a few weeks ago. Mine's a new 581 series. I've only shot it once so far and haven't put many rounds through it but I'm absolutely positive I'll be able to get groups down around 1" with handloads and some simple tweaks. I'm a tinkerer by nature so I don't have any problem changing out gas op bushings or bedding the action. I'll have to send the trigger assembly out for a trigger job though, just not comfortable doing it myself. I haven't played with an AK at all and don't have any real desire to, so I'm by no means an authority. By the way mine is a standard ranch rifle in wood and blued steel not a tactical.

Stu

rickyrick
March 15, 2011, 12:32 PM
I think they are all gonna be 581 now because of the new barrel diameter they may all have a common receiver with the mini30 and the 6.8 .

JIMSPD9
March 15, 2011, 12:59 PM
I purchased a Mini-14 three years ago. I should have saved another $100+ dollars and bought an AR platform. I have not been satisfied with the Mini.

An AK in any form has no appeal for me personally. They have represented evil personified in the former Soviet hordes, todays raghead terrorists, and drug dealing gangs here in america, that use them.

Buy an AR that is made in the U.S.A.

Just my opinion

JIM S.

Single Six
March 15, 2011, 01:23 PM
I have a Massad Ayoob article in which he relates this story: An LE colleague of his attended a rifle training class [might have been a competition]. For hardware, he took his department-issued Mini-14. When he and Ayoob discussed it later, the man said that one thing he noticed was that several shooters with high-dollar ARs suffered reliability issues, while his Mini never missed a beat. My opinion: The AR snobs look down their noses at the Mini, but my experience mirrors that of Ayoob's co-worker: I've seen ARs malfunction. I have never seen a Mini-14 do likewise. I'm sure someone somewhere has seen it, but I have yet to see it happen for myself. The new Minis will shoot plenty accurate if you take the time the experiment to find the right ammo. Me, if I wanted tiny groups, I'd get a bolt action with a bi-pod and a sturdy bench. The Mini is typical Ruger: Affordable, rugged, and reliable. I'll also add this: I'd happily trade my department-issued M4 for a Mini-14 and wouldn't think twice about it. ;)

Ac1d0v3r1d3
March 15, 2011, 03:56 PM
An AK in any form has no appeal for me personally. They have represented evil personified in the former Soviet hordes, todays raghead terrorists, and drug dealing gangs here in america, that use them.


So you won't own a firearm because it is a functional and low cost thus popular for folks you don't like?

SwampYankee
March 15, 2011, 04:01 PM
AK, all the way. I've seen too many Mini's break down in my training classes.

As Single Six relates, I have never seen a Mini failure. I'd like to see one, but I have not. Both of my AR's , yes.

Mutatio Nomenis
March 15, 2011, 04:18 PM
Before I answer, I have to ask: is the AK you are thinking of a semi-only version or does it have full auto?

M.O.A.
March 15, 2011, 04:29 PM
i voted for the mini 14 because the one i had would shoot rings around any ak ever put up agains it

the minis get a bad rap from people that try and shoot the cheapest ammo they can and that just dont cut it. the mini 14s like the heavyer 62gn ammo in my opinion

Shooter 973
March 15, 2011, 10:23 PM
I'd have to vote for the Mini 14, as it's made here in the good ol' USA. I'd rather my money keep an American employed than send the money out of the country. The job we save May be mine next time.....:)

Skans
March 16, 2011, 08:11 AM
Before I answer, I have to ask: is the AK you are thinking of a semi-only version or does it have full auto?

I think you can assume he's talking about a semi-auto AK. First, Arsenal doesn't make full-auto AK's, and if he was talking about a full-auto AK, I'd assume he'd be comparing it to the AC556 instead of the Mini-14. In that case, price being the same, its a no-brainer, you'd take the AK over he AC556.

thesheepdog
March 16, 2011, 08:54 AM
As Single Six relates, I have never seen a Mini failure

Other than mag issues, I haven't seen part failures. My AR hasn't ever failed either.

Mutatio Nomenis
March 16, 2011, 04:05 PM
I voted arsenal.