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rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 06:30 PM
Took my Saiga 12 to local skeet range today and tried it out doing skeet. When I first got there couple people told me I couldn't shoot that gun cause its not a proper skeet gun. So I went to one of the people that manage the skeet shoot on Sundays and asked him. He said there is no law saying i can't shoot that gun, well that ****** some people off. My first round sucked but did better on the second. But after my 3rd round wasn't missing and clays and people were coming over to ask me after about the gun and want to try it. I think I got some people interested in the Saiga 12's. One was a local Police officer loaded him up a 10 round mag as fast as the clays coming out of the houses he was hitting them he loved the gun. He said to me after "with this gun we could start a whole new type of skeet shoot". My Saiga 12 is bone stock except for the barrel shroud made by 1Alumalite. I guess the got a big skeet shoot next Sunday and was asked to come back so the Police Officer can show my gun to people and maybe get a new style of skeet game going. As you can tell I had Great Sunday except for a couple of snobs. :)

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 06:46 PM
One was a local Police officer loaded him up a 10 round mag

Nice your 10-round mag was allowed - it wouldn't happen at any skeet club I have ever been to due to safety, nor would I want it to happen. Skeet is an orchestrated clay game - glad it worked for you

zippy13
March 6, 2011, 06:55 PM
One was a local Police officer loaded him up a 10 round mag as fast as the clays coming out of the houses he was hitting them he loved the gun.
And you wonder why some folks weren't overjoyed to see you and your Saiga arrive -- they weren't snobs, they just anticipated your foolery. Loading up a 10-round mag at most Skeet fields will get you eighty-sixed as an unsafe shooter. Skeet is shot with a max of two shells loaded.

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 07:01 PM
When I was shooting skeet it was just 2 rounds in the mag. The officer used the 10 round when everybody was done just to see if he could hit 10 skeets in a row none stop. And I used a 5 round mag with just 2 rounds.

sirsloop
March 6, 2011, 07:07 PM
Its funny to see all the ruffled feathers when a "tactical" shotgun shows up at a clay range. My friend was told he could not shoot his 590A1 at sporting clays because "it was dangerous". He asked how it was any more dangerous than any other shotgun and they responded "you won't do well with that gun". He asked them to not worry about his score as he wanted to shoot anyways and they simply told him it was against the rules. Hey, its their range, but its complete BS. If you want to bring a Saiga 12 to a skeet range, more power to ya. Ya you'll be doing a lot of mag loading which could be distracting to other shooters. Whatever, I say its fair game.

Technosavant
March 6, 2011, 07:12 PM
I use my S12 occasionally, but it isn't that well suited to it. I do get funny looks from some, but most are cool with it.

As for the mag limits, more than 2 at a time is the general rule, but my view is that so long as you remain at one station, you will be no less safe with ten than with two. As always, observe the rules of the club and be safe.

Sent from my MB300 using Tapatalk

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 07:21 PM
What i was told if it shoots 7 1/2 or 8 shot and gun is unloaded until you get to station you can shot any type of shot gun. And when i loaded up the 10 round mag for the officer he stayed at one station and was shooting by himself so there was no foolery being done by me. Skeet and trap is a time to have fun but not act like a retard when shooting with other people. When I said snob, I meant people don't think you should do skeet or trap unless you have a O/U or side by side shot gun.

zippy13
March 6, 2011, 07:45 PM
When I was shooting skeet it was just 2 rounds in the mag. The officer used the 10 round when everybody was done just to see if he could hit 10 skeets in a row none stop.I'm reminded of the time I was completing the paper work late one Sunday afternoon after a week-end long tournament. It was pretty close to closing time; but, there was still some shooting at the trap field closest to the clubhouse. I went outside to deposit the receipts at Rangemaster's office, there were guns going off and targets flying, but nobody at the trap line. I figured they were shooting from behind the safety fence -- a technical violation of the safety rules. But, like many clubs, the boomer boys are given an opportunity for long range trap late in the day. I looked behind the fence and still nobody! :eek: Then I realized, they were shooting from up on the roof! Both of them long time club members and both of them senior police officers. It seems those trusted to enforce the rules are often the first to bend them.:rolleyes:And I used a 5 round mag with just 2 rounds.
Bravo! At least you were following the general safety precautions.but my view is that so long as you remain at one station, you will be no less safe with ten than with two. As always, observe the rules of the club and be safe.
But, it's not longer Skeet nor Trap.

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 08:07 PM
shooting from the roof is just stupid and asking for trouble.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 08:21 PM
Its funny to see all the ruffled feathers when a "tactical" shotgun shows up at a clay range.

hmmmmmm, and maybe I should take my sporting gun to a tactical match and act unsafe and then how the snobs at a black gun match react.

It has to do with safety - obviously, you are unfamiliar with that requirement on a skeet field - please stay with your pasture clays and leave us safety snobs alone......thank you

ritepath
March 6, 2011, 08:28 PM
You do of course realize those that show up for a "civilized" clay shoot, for the most part don't agree with the ownership of "tactical" weapons or for the most part even believe in SD firearms. They don't want "your kind" around their kind.

You don't go to someone elses playground and not play by their rules.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 08:33 PM
You do of course realize those that show up for a "civilized" clay shoot, for the most part don't agree with the ownership of "tactical" weapons or for the most part even believe in SD firearms. They don't want "your kind" around their kind.

You don't go to someone elses playground and not play by their rules.

That would be a WRONG ASSumption on your part - it does mean that there is a time and place for everything, and a skeet field is NOT the place for a Saiga, especially with 10-round mags....try again

10mmAuto
March 6, 2011, 08:39 PM
Its funny to see all the ruffled feathers when a "tactical" shotgun shows up at a clay range
While at a trap shooting range I was told I needed to remove my pistol because it was "unsafe" in its Blackhawk! Serpa holster. The pistol as a Glock. A safer combination I'd be hard pressed to find. This was during a trap shooting event. No, I wasn't shooting on the line. Generally speaking, I'm amused by how anti-gun these gun owners were.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 08:41 PM
Did you really feel the need to have a pistol during a clay target match? REALLY? Were you afraid of being mugged/raped during the match or in the parking lot? REALLY?

Time to unwind the tinfoil hat please

10mmAuto
March 6, 2011, 08:45 PM
Time to unwind the tinfoil hat please
There were 300 rather angry old men there all armed to teeth themselves so on the rationality of carry continuum I'd say this was very close to "most rational". Interestingly, the range master agreed with me and told me he concealed carries during every event.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 08:48 PM
Concealed carry....but you mentioned you were either "made" or obviously seen..........which was it?

10mmAuto
March 6, 2011, 08:50 PM
Concealed carry....but you mentioned you were either "made" or obviously seen..........which was it?
I was openly carrying because I didn't see one holstered Glock on someone who is obviously an off duty soldier being too intimidating amongst 300+ old men with 2 shotguns each. If you've got a real problem with that, see above post about anti-gun gun owners.

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 08:55 PM
I guess oneonceload needs glasses cause he can't read post right. I shot with a 5 round mag with only 2 rounds at a time. The officer shot a full 10 round all by himself. with me there pushing the buttons to send the clays. Your range rules maybe different then my range rules. Nobody there had a problem with it if they did they should of said some thing. when I was shooting I would shot my 2 rounds make sure the bolt is open and the mag was out of the gun before i left that station. And while i was waiting for the other shooters to finish the barrel of the gun was on my foot. I would load my mag up with 2 more rounds but then it stayed in my bag until it was my time to shoot. How is that being unsafe. and when the officer shot my gun everybody was done for the day.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 08:55 PM
hmmmmmmmmm, you felt threatened by those old men and their trap guns? Maybe they felt threatened by you.

Maybe there should be some test for gun owners, including common sense - I don't have the problem, I don't feel threatened enough to have to open carry a gun - sorry you seem to feel that way - maybe you should stick to video games and indoor pistol ranges, or learn how to carry concealed.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 08:57 PM
I guess oneonceload needs glasses cause he can't read post right.

Perhaps you can spell my screen name right - maybe you need glasses to read right

It doesn't matter, certain places are OK for certain guns, and some places are not - it isn't hard to understand

10mmAuto
March 6, 2011, 09:00 PM
Maybe there should be some test for gun owners, including common sense - I don't have the problem, I don't feel threatened enough to have to open carry a gun - sorry you seem to feel that way - maybe you should stick to video games and indoor pistol ranges, or learn how to carry concealed
"Obviously everyone who carries is a paranoid mall ninja."
Excellent job demonstrating what I said in my OP about anti-gun gun owners.

sirsloop
March 6, 2011, 09:01 PM
hmmmmmm, and maybe I should take my sporting gun to a tactical match and act unsafe and then how the snobs at a black gun match react.

It has to do with safety - obviously, you are unfamiliar with that requirement on a skeet field - please stay with your pasture clays and leave us safety snobs alone......thank you

I must be missing something. I hope you are not inferring that by simply owning a Saiga 12, it means you are an unsafe shooter! Explain to me how shooting a Saiga 12 on a skeet range is any more dangerous than shooting any other firearm. With the simple addition of a breech flag, all at the range can rest easy that you are not walking around loaded. While you are shooting, you only have two in the mag. The rest of the time the mag is OUT of the gun, and the breech flag is IN. I'd venture to say that's SAFER than that double barrel I've been swept with a bazillion times at the range.

zippy13
March 6, 2011, 09:01 PM
While at a trap shooting range I was told I needed to remove my pistol because it was "unsafe"As a general safety rule, you are allowed to have ammo only in the gauge of the gun your are shooting -- this could be broadly enforced to include pistol ammo. At one of my clubs there is a rule: Guests must be accompanied at all times. Are you supposed to accompany your guest to the toilet?

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 09:01 PM
Then the way I look at it is. If you don't like the gun I am shooting then you can leave.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:03 PM
"Obviously everyone who carries is a paranoid mall ninja."
Excellent job demonstrating what I said in my OP about anti-gun gun owners.

where did that crap come from? Wow, never said that - try again

People like you make me want to vote for gun control though

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:05 PM
I must be missing something. I hope you are not inferring that by simply owning a Saiga 12, it means you are an unsafe shooter!

Never said that either - amazing how moronic folks can get - it was the use of 10 rounds at a time that is unsafe, and the other posters need to open carry a loaded pistol on the trap line because he feels those "old men" might attack him:rolleyes:

10mmAuto
March 6, 2011, 09:05 PM
Guests must be accompanied at all times. Are you supposed to accompany your guest to the toilet?
The ranger master himself as well as all the other employees all had no issue with it and I asked them before hand, it was the complaints of the previously mentioned angry old men which prompted them to ask me to remove it.

"old men" might attack him
Considering one of the event patrons angrily threatened to pepper his scorer that's really all the impetus I needed. Thanks for the sarcasm though, I'm sorry you're so afraid of people being capable of defending themselves.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:07 PM
Then the way I look at it is. If you don't like the gun I am shooting then you can leave.

Not really - you can go find some pasture to have fun at your heart's consent..I could care less if you want to shoot clays with a 50BMG - just not at a regular club where the course of fire is established - so take your myopic attitude and apply it to your video game

Recoiljunky
March 6, 2011, 09:09 PM
I also have a saiga 12 but I shot 5 stand with mine it all comes down to the people going to that paticular range. At my range thelle allow you to use any shotgun asking as you have somesort of butstock on it. Rottieman I'm on you side with thisone. As long as your safe with whatever your doin then go on and do it.

sirsloop
March 6, 2011, 09:13 PM
oneounceload, Seems to me you are trolling. Nothing wrong with shooting a Saiga 12 at ANY sporting event. Heck they even make chokes for them. Nothing wrong with wearing a pistol to the line FOR ANY REASON as long as its legal and/or its not against the rules. Tons of people have been killed at ranges for their firearms. In PA there was a recent spree of murders at their local public ranges. Its simple. If you don't like it you can leave. If the range officer doesn't like it, they can tell the shooter to leave. Plain and simple.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:15 PM
I also have a saiga 12 but I shot 5 stand with mine it all comes down to the people going to that paticular range.

If it can be handled safely so everyone can see that, I personally do not have an issue - it is the loading a 10 round mag that is objectionable, as is shooting shot larger than 7-1/2, or - as one person seems to feel is necessary - open-carrying on a range - no need for any of that when safety is paramount

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 09:16 PM
Oneounceload if you were there shooting with me and asked us not to shoot the 10 round mag cause you thought it was unsafe I would of stoped. I do respect the wishes of other people but the range master did not have a problem with it. They way you did type the comment about people have that type of gun It did sound like you were saying we were unsafe people.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:17 PM
oneounceload, Seems to me you are trolling.

Right..............try again

see post above

zippy13
March 6, 2011, 09:17 PM
shooting from the roof is just stupid and asking for trouble.AMENI must be missing something. I hope you are not inferring that by simply owning a Saiga 12, it means you are an unsafe shooter! Explain to me how shooting a Saiga 12 on a skeet range is any more dangerous than shooting any other firearm. With the simple addition of a breech flag, all at the range can rest easy that you are not walking around loaded.Let's face reality, newbies are typically considered to be unaware of all the procedures, including the safety rules. Those who want their practice rounds as close to match conditions as possible may not wish to be squaded with newbies. One of the marks of a newby is a gun that isn't considered appropriate. It doesn't matter how accomplished and safe you are with a Saiga, or other tactical-type shotgun, it's gonna mark you as a newby at the Trap or Skeet fields until you become a known factor at that club.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:19 PM
Oneounceload if you were there shooting with me and asked us not to shoot the 10 round mag cause you thought it was unsafe I would of stoped. I do respect the wishes of other people but the range master did not have a problem with it. They way you did type the comment about people have that type of gun It did sound like you were saying we were unsafe people.

Then we have no problem - issue resolved

ritepath
March 6, 2011, 09:21 PM
Here's a better question, why do people want to handicap themselves with only two rounds? That's the silly part of shooting skeet, not their fear of black guns.


On the other hand I'm considering a Mossberg HS12 as my first over under.

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:27 PM
Here's a better question, why do people want to handicap themselves with only two rounds? That's the silly part of shooting skeet, not their fear of black guns.

Because, at the most, you will have only two targets to shoot at - 1 shot per target


It comes down to safety - which is why Beretta developed the UGB break-open semi auto gun - in Europe, a safety officer has to be able to determine that every gun is safe when not on the shooting line - he can only do that if he can determine that each gun is broken open

This is where I am coming from - there's no reason for open carry, multi-round magazines or anything else. If you can prove your shotgun is safe and only loading 2 rounds max, then have at it - but remember, folks are watching you to make sure things are safe - that adds distraction - annoying to someone trying to run the line at trap or skeet

if you can demonstrate safe habits - have at it

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 09:29 PM
The max i had was 4 round at 4 stations 1 from high house 1 from low house then doubles

oneounceload
March 6, 2011, 09:40 PM
rottieman - here's the deal - for safety reasons -yes at station 1 you will fire 4 shots, possibly 5, total (including option). however, you never need to load more than 2 - whether a mag or tube gun, this is important for several reasons

one - it changes the balance with added weight
two - and more importantly from a safety aspect - if there is a glitch with the machines......a NOT-uncommon scenario - you might forget about one of the rounds inadvertently - thereby allowing you to have a loaded weapon as you walk off station

It doesn't matter if you are 18 and the Saiga is you first gun or if you are 65 and shooting the same Browning for 60 years

OOPS happen and the rules are there to make sure those odds are the smallest as possible

THAT'S where I am coming from - if that upsets some folks.....I don't care if it means someone doesn't get hurt because "I thought it was unloaded", then so be it

Hope you understand that

Marrok
March 6, 2011, 09:42 PM
Iam a new guy here, so hello everyone.

Secondly, I htink how Rottie is being flamed for something that is considered safe and usable at his range doesnt mean that people whos ranges dont allow them should be throwing stones.

Ranges around my area love saigas and 10 round mags, and let people use them for skeet/trap.

ritepath
March 6, 2011, 10:08 PM
It comes down to safety - which is why Beretta developed the UGB break-open semi auto gun - in Europe, a safety officer has to be able to determine that every gun is safe when not on the shooting line - he can only do that if he can determine that each gun is broken open



See now that makes sense to me....I thought it was just people being paranoid, but I can understand this completely now.

Thanks for explaining it.

Dave McC
March 6, 2011, 10:18 PM
Everyone should take a deep breath and chill.

A couple things.....

A year or two ago I was lent a box stock Saiga 12 with two five round mags for an extended T&E. When I showed it to the Geezer Squad, they tried it out.

That means that guys with accumulated centuries of shotgunning behind them set down a Model 12 Trap, a Winchester 21 and a nice little Parker 20 to shoot the Kalishnikov. They liked it and we were shooting trap.

I do not care if the guy next to me on the line is shooting a Mossberg, a Piotti, or a belt fed 8 gauge,as long as they are safe and courteous( in that order) I'm fine with it.

Marrok
March 6, 2011, 10:22 PM
like you said dave, it all boils down to safety. theres no difference between safety of a 5 round mag or 10 round, or even a 2 round mag, its all the operator of the gun. if youve been deemed safe by the range operator, then your good.

TheKlawMan
March 6, 2011, 10:39 PM
As a newbie, I have to say this is a bunch of horse ****.

While I have taken a black 18" short barrel to the skeet range, at a public club that allows shorter barrels, every one was friendly on both the skeet and trap fields. Perhaps because I didn't have an attitude.

I suspect that you were displaying an attitude not only by toting the S12, but the glock. Although a newbie, I have been out this year over a half dozen times to shotgun ranges and have yet to see anyone carrying a pistol; including range officers.

As for what the LEO did, officers are people like all of us and some of them do stupid things.

Let's get one thing straight, did the range officer actually tell you it was alright to load up the mag or are assuming it was OK because he did not object.

If you had express permission and no one else was on the field, I see nothing wrong with shooting a full mag without changing stations. Otherwise, I don't want to be around you.

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 10:45 PM
We did ask the range master first and the range was clear except for me and the shooter and we stayed in 1 spot. I stood off to his left side pressing the buttons to to the high and low house.

TheKlawMan
March 6, 2011, 11:10 PM
I see no big deal with loading up the mag, then, but I still wonder about carrying the loaded pistol. Was there even a pistol range?

Regarldess, for safety reasons like others pointed out the only firearm that is to be loaded is the one being shot and only then while on your station.

Why were you even carrying and are you aware that some interpretations of concealed carry law is that a permit only entitles you to carry concealed, but here you were open carrying a loaded weapon.

M.O.A.
March 6, 2011, 11:50 PM
wow u guys need to chill out

olddrum1
March 7, 2011, 12:19 AM
Usally the range rules will mirror the insurance policy for the club. Normally the first rule is that the only loaded gun on the premises is one that is having a presented target thrown. It will only have the number of rounds that equal the number of targets thrown. This means all others are unloaded and broken open. That goes for all firearms. If you have a gun you carry then you need to pull the clip and open the action. It probably is in violation of the insurance policy, thus the range rules. I would think that this is an accurate description of most clubs with insurance.

Marrok
March 7, 2011, 12:39 AM
sorry olddrum1, but i have a small itch for people that say "clip" when referring to a magazine.

ripnbst
March 7, 2011, 12:56 AM
I believe Will Ferrell in Anchorman said it best when he said

"Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast."

StrongSideArmsInc
March 7, 2011, 01:28 AM
Never said that either - amazing how moronic folks can get - it was the use of 10 rounds at a time that is unsafe, and the other posters need to open carry a loaded pistol on the trap line because he feels those "old men" might attack him

amazing how moronic folks can get


Moronic, I got kicked off the forums for calling you a clown, because you told some guy it was okay to shot a rifled slug with full choke. This is not fair, I am reporting you to TFL.



rottieman - here's the deal - for safety reasons -yes at station 1 you will fire 4 shots, possibly 5, total (including option). however, you never need to load more than 2 - whether a mag or tube gun, this is important for several reasons

no need for any of that when safety is paramount

You keep recanting a safety issue this, safety issue that. The safety is your trigger finger, it doesn't matter how many rounds you have or don't have. Weapon is pointed in a safe direction, with your finger off the trigger. Nothing bad is going to happen. I carry a loaded gun around everyday, during the course of duty I have even pointed it at people, under stress. You might have a hard time believing this, but I just keep my finger off the trigger. Bottom line, his range master said it was ok, and you weren't there to pitch a fit. Leave the common man alone, no everybody can afford Perazzis, Krigofs.

you can go find some pasture

You are only showing what the OP stated in the first post. The OP needs to contact me, so I can Dura Coat his Saiga Pink, then go to trap and skeet range and when these people start giving your a hard time, tell them you are shooting for Breast Cancer Awarness, and they should be more sympathtic to the cause. If they don't leave you alone, you can have a bunch of women survivers pickett their club. Give me a call, I will Dura Coat it for free, and be there when you beat the pants of them. I will heckle them, and make fun them for getting beat by a guy with a pink assault shotgun.:D

It should matter what is being shot, of who the shooter is. I have Lutic Space gun, but sometimes I like to go out to trap/skeet club with my 9 shot Berreta 1201FP, all camoed up. The praise should be to the shooter, espically if he using a gun like a Saiga, because it is much more difficult to use in those kind of events.

10mmAuto
March 7, 2011, 07:24 AM
I suspect that you were displaying an attitude not only by toting the S12, but the glock. Although a newbie, I have been out this year over a half dozen times to shotgun ranges and have yet to see anyone carrying a pistol; including range officers.
Klawman rides in to the rescue on a horsey of wild assumptions.

1)The OP and myself are not the same.
2)Did you ever suspect not only the fact that you haven't seen it but your irrationally negative attitude towards it is because you are in California? Open carry isn't legal there. It would be pretty ambiguous for a lot of folks there how that applies to the range and immediately adjacent to it. Surprised I had to point that one out for you.

People like you make me want to vote for gun control though
Wow, I didn't even see this one yesterday. People who openly carry on ranges, co signed on by range management (until the irrational complaints of people like you), with a pistol who's safety level is beyond reproach and fully holstered in what is practically a gun safe on your hip?

Yes, that's just crazy enough to make perfect sense. As pointed out by others in this thread, you're trolling and continue demonstrating perfectly that I've never been around more anti-gun gun owners than at that trap shoot (I am not saying all trap shooters are, but that seemed to be the shot group they were shooting collectively without a doubt).

sirsloop
March 7, 2011, 11:18 AM
See, this is why I LOVE it! All these dudes get so flipped out over it and as long as you are safe and responsible who cares "what an appropriate shotgun" for the GAME is. Its a game... but when a tactical shotty shows up at a "super duper prestigious field with two plywood shacks" its like watching parents fight at their kids soccer game.

zippy13
March 7, 2011, 11:27 AM
You keep recanting a safety issue this, safety issue that. The safety is your trigger finger, it doesn't matter how many rounds you have or don't have. Weapon is pointed in a safe direction, with your finger off the trigger. Nothing bad is going to happen. I carry a loaded gun around everyday, during the course of duty I have even pointed it at people, under stress. You might have a hard time believing this, but I just keep my finger off the trigger.Finger out of the guard may work for you on a daily basis. I know other pistol packers who add "cocked and locked" to their carry gun safety list. But, these are not the rules of a typical shotgun club. You may ask why are the rules different, so I'll attempt to explain.

The safety procedures for a carry gun are based on making the gun as safe as possible while maintaining it ready for unanticipated instantaneous service by a well trained individual. The shotgun club safety rules are intended to make the gun as safe as possible (unloaded with the action open for others to see) at the times the average individual is not actually on the firing station. Only when preparing to fire is the gun is loaded, and then with only one shell per target per presentation.

With everyone following the rules, it's not the routine occurrences that pose the greater safety problems at the target range. It's the unexpected distractions that tend to make us forget the safety rules. If you get hit in the side of the head by a significantly sized target piece from an adjacent field your first thought isn't going to be, "Is my gun loaded, or not?"

Why are newbies considered to be unfamiliar with the safety rules, because many of us remember being there. When first introduced to Skeet I shot a borrowed O/U. My next time out was with my new pump gun. As we squadded-up for station 2, I reckoned it would speed things up if I preloaded my gun while waiting my turn. As I started to stuffing shells into the mag, one of the old boys motioned me aside and explained the loading procedure. After completing the round, I actually took the time to read the big sign board with all those rules spelled out in bright red lettering. I was embarrassed to learn that I'd been an unformed newby. To this day, when at a new range (rifle, pistol or shotgun) I read the local rules before taking my guns out of the truck. When in Rome...Leave the common man alone, no everybody can afford Perazzis, Krigofs.Let's not be getting anti-brand name snobby, I think most will agree, there's quite a few target appropriate guns priced between the Saiga and P/K-guns. However, unlike the Saiga, if someone is toting a P/K-gun it's assumed he's been shooting long enough to know the safety rules. Typically, they aren't the owners first target gun. I'd been target shooting more than 20-years before I got my first P-gun. On the other hand, I knew a 12-year old kid who had a Perazzi; but, she knew the rules, too (and won Olympic Gold with a P-gun 5-years later).

Recoiljunky
March 7, 2011, 11:28 AM
Atleast when parents fight at the kids soccer game it's amusing, but fighting over this is stupid.

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 11:53 AM
You are only showing what the OP stated in the first post. The OP needs to contact me, so I can Dura Coat his Saiga Pink, then go to trap and skeet range and when these people start giving your a hard time, tell them you are shooting for Breast Cancer Awarness, and they should be more sympathtic to the cause. If they don't leave you alone, you can have a bunch of women survivers pickett their club. Give me a call, I will Dura Coat it for free, and be there when you beat the pants of them. I will heckle them, and make fun them for getting beat by a guy with a pink assault shotgun


Color of the gun is no issue at all - we have had a few girls show up with their pink shotguns - they shot well, abided by all of the safety rules and had a great time. Guys with camo guns and HD guns show up as well - as long as you follow the safety rules, no one cares - what's so hard for you to follow in that regard?

Recoiljunky
March 7, 2011, 12:17 PM
Rottieman we should start a s12 clayshooting team

TheKlawMan
March 7, 2011, 12:43 PM
Klawman rides in to the rescue on a horsey of wild assumptions.

1)The OP and myself are not the same.
2)Did you ever suspect not only the fact that you haven't seen it but your irrationally negative attitude towards it is because you are in California? Open carry isn't legal there. It would be pretty ambiguous for a lot of folks there how that applies to the range and immediately adjacent to it. Surprised I had to point that one out for you.

Where do you get off (your horsey) assuming my attitude towards weapons carrying is the same as the Californina Legislature's? My assumption that you were the OP was a mistake, but not that wild an assumption given how uyou hijacked his thread.

Forgetting about you stalking horse argument, regardless of what some range officer said to allow it until complaints were made, what were the rules of the field and why did you feel a need to be exempted from them if you did?

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 12:55 PM
Rottieman we should start a s12 clayshooting team

I am all for it Saiga 12 skeet speed shoot 10 rounds max

BigJimP
March 7, 2011, 01:12 PM
It seems to me that the conflict here is about the "published and established rules of Skeet - and the safety rules that apply and are published" vs the mentality of a " Fun Shoot" ...that may or may not have anything to do with Skeet.

The published rules of Skeet are very plain - on no station, can you ever load more than 2 shells ( not in the mag or anywhere else). In some cases, you can only load one shell ( station 8 / or whenever you have one single target remaining - like an option ). The rules exist for everyones comfort and safety...and to ignore them / by the range or the shooters concerns me a lot.

In a fun shoot ...3 shell shoots, all kinds of made-up hybrid games ...the club management can set whatever parameters they feel is appropriate / whatever safety standards they think apply ....but its not Skeet.

At my club, on my squad, we make room for new shooters all the time - regardless of the types or styles of guns they shoot / tactical, etc on a Skeet squad. We do however insist the basic published safety rules are followed - no more than 2 shells, actions open, etc .. If a guy with a tactical shotgun can run 100 targets straight - I'll congratulate him or her - just like I would someone shooting a $ 25,000 Over Under... it makes no difference.

At the same time - I have no place on my squad for rudeness...talking when someone else is shooting, bad attitudes, etc . / and while guys may not understand the rules ...most guys, with a comment here or there, are more than happy to show some respect to other members of the sqaud.
------------------------
This argument on carrying a handgun ...is interesting. All of the guys I shoot with in Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays are pro-gun ...but none of us feel the need to wear a concealed weapon. Frankly it would make me nervous - if I saw it happen on a clays range ...because my impression is the person doing it "is just showing off". Its that "showing off" mentality ...that worries me the most ....as in --- what are they doing, is my safety at risk, are they stable, do I need to go put a holster on with my 1911 to make sure I'm safe...and none of that strikes me as a good idea.

I shoot tactical handguns at least twice a week ... and I think there is a time and place for that ....vs the clay target ranges. Not wanting a bunch of handguns in holsters ...doesn't make me anti-gun... But in general, I think all putting a handgun on at a clays range is doing is either "showing off" or its ratcheting up the anxiety level of everyone else around them ...and not a good idea in my view. I'd suggest the person doing it ....really think it thru / and analyze what they're trying to accomplish.

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 01:22 PM
+1 Jim - well said

10mmAuto
March 7, 2011, 02:04 PM
Where do you get off (your horsey) assuming my attitude towards weapons carrying is the same as the Californina Legislature's? My assumption that you were the OP was a mistake, but not that wild an assumption given how uyou hijacked his thread.
Not the only mistake you made, you might want to go back to the first page because I wasn't the only person to talk about the attitude at trap ranges.

Forgetting about you stalking horse argument, regardless of what some range officer said to allow it until complaints were made, what were the rules of the field and why did you feel a need to be exempted from them if you did?
It wasn't against the rules.

I'll leave it be, I find it amusing how fervently anti-carry oneonceload and JimB are. Obviously, there are different attitudes about carry in this nation amongst gun owners which is amusing. At the rifle range, nobody would have looked twice. Hell, even at Impact Guns nobody bats an eye. Clearly, we are all unstable up here in the mountain west.

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 02:08 PM
I think i should clarify some thing. When I was shooting Sunday it was a practice shoot wasn't a game for points. 1 round we shot doubles so first 2 station I could load up 4 rounds in mag. 1 from high house 1 from low house then 1 from each house at the same time. And not once did i leave that station until bolt was open and mag was removed. And the 10 round mag was shot with permission from range master. The rules at your range may differ from mine. I know in the State of New Hampshire we are allowed to carry a loaded gun in the open. But this is my ? Is it posted at your range so that every one can see it that side arms are not allowed when skeet shooting. Do I carry when shooting skeet/trap no i don't but its not going to bother me if the guy next to me is, as long has he keeps it in the holster i have no problem. But for people flipping out about what went on Sunday with with me. You was not there so how can you say what we was not being safe, you assumed that we are a bunch of unsafe shooters cause of the type of gun I brought and had 10 round mag. Some people in here may think there the safest person in the world when it comes to guns control, There the worst cause they worry about what other people are doing and not what there doing. I put this post up to let people now how fun it was to skeet shoot with a Saiga 12 and what happens my post got bashed. I have seen people do unsafe stuff with guns and have told them nicely that I don't think that it's safe to do that, If they continue I just leave. But it all boils down to this I did nothing wrong the 10 round mag was approved by the range master at the end of the day when every body was done shooting. All the safety rules were followed. Not once was there anybody in danger or I would of stopped it.

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 02:21 PM
anti-carry oneonceload and JimB are.

Yet another wrong assumption - never said anything about anti-carry. it was about carrying your sidearm on a trap/skeet field - the only loaded firearm is the one held by someone about to shoot - maybe you missed that point that was made. It is obvious you believe you can just do whatever you want wherever you are - not the case. Those clubs have rules for a reason, actually several - safety and related to that, insurance and lawsuits.

You want to carry at a rifle range? Go ahead, I have as well, ESPECIALLY at an open public piece of property with no RO and a bunch of young video-game commandos running around acting irresponsibly.

That, however, is not a shotgun club. If you do not like their rules, go elsewhere

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 02:25 PM
1 round we shot doubles so first 2 station I could load up 4 rounds in mag. 1 from high house 1 from low house then 1 from each house at the same time

You should not have had it loaded with 4 for stations 1, 2, 6, or 7. You would load the next two after you shot the first pair of singles. Where it can wreak havoc is when it comes to your option on your first miss. I have watched people start to walk off the station with one round left because of that - oops happen to everyone all the time, which is why everyone is always watching the shooter - to make sure no oops occur. Glad everything came out safely in the end and you had a good time.

Safety first, fun second - all is well

BigJimP
March 7, 2011, 02:38 PM
Loading more than 2 shells ....at any time ....on station 1 in "Skeet" is a clear violation of the published safety rules of Skeet !

In Skeet - we all shoot 4 targets at station 1. A single from each house / then a true pair.....but you cannot load 4 shells ...and be within the rules/you can only load 2 shells at one time !! By loading 4 shells ...you committed a clear safety violation !
-------------------------
Openly carrying a handgun in a holster ...in my opinion ....is clearly just showing off ....although why anyone would be that proud of a 10mm Glock is beyond me ...?? If you were carrying for any perceived "defensive situation" ...or just because you carry concealed all the time / then you would have made sure it was concealed .... not showing it off. I'd be curious to know if you have a concealed weapons permit ....
--------------------------
As a Vietnam era vet ...I resent your implication .../although you're entitled to your opinion ....but I would have asked the Range Safety Officer to ask you to leave the range if you insisted on open carry - for my, and my fellow shooters, safety - because your intentions are certainly questionable.

sirsloop
March 7, 2011, 02:48 PM
If someone was carrying openly at a skeet range, I would assume it was for showing off as well. I have no problem with it tho, but its better off being concealed.

Part of the problem here is sterotyping and the fact that there are casual and competitive shooters colliding. No (real/serious) competitive shooter is going to show up to a skeet range with a Saiga 12. Just ain't gonna happen. So automatically when you do show up with one you get labeled as a casual noob shooter, possibly unsafe, don't know what you are doing, etc etc. Its a stereotype. Same stereotype could be (wrongfully) placed on someone shooting a pricey O/U that they are pro shooters, on top of safety, highly experienced. Anybody with a couple grand burning a hole in their swiss bank account can buy a pricey O/U, show up to a skeet range, and sweep the HECK out of a squad or two. Possibly injure OR KILL someone.

BigJimP
March 7, 2011, 02:52 PM
Its also not that big a deal - to just load 2 shells at a time ....and abide by the published safety rules of Skeet ....and then everyone is happy !

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 02:54 PM
This is what I am trying to tell you, your rules may be different then mine. Like the other guy said there are Hybrid games out there. But we still call it skeet. Your being so anal on a skeet shoot you keep going back to your rules, your rules do not apply to my game of skeet. This is why people get ******. you either shoot skeet your way or you don't do it at all. your not willing to open your mind up to try something different. And just so you know the person that shot my gun with a 10 round mag flies all over the USA to go to these big skeet shoots and has a $10,000 skeet gun. He told me if your shooting clays from left to right or right to left its still called skeet and it doesn't matter how you shoot the game. From reading what you have posted you sound like the type of guy if the person next to you pass gas you would want to retake the shot cause the sound and smell made you miss it.

10mmAuto
March 7, 2011, 02:58 PM
That, however, is not a shotgun club. If you do not like their rules, go elsewhere
It wasn't their rules. You need to read more.

overkill0084
March 7, 2011, 03:01 PM
A holstered gun at a gun range? Scandalous.

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 03:01 PM
Every body keeps going back to the OFFICAL SKEET RULES. I played a Hybrid game of skeet. Is that so hard to understand.

BigJimP
March 7, 2011, 03:17 PM
You're out of line Rottieman33 .....but then I'm not really surprised / given the rest of your comments and attitudes about the rules of Skeet .....

With all due respect to your friend shooting a $10K shotgun ....( and 10K or
$25K shotguns on a Skeet field aren't uncommon - and it doesn't give him any extra credibility ) ....but its also clear he doesn't know what he's talking about / so I doubt he's a registered Skeet shooter or he would know better..

You can continue to do whatever you want - at least at that club ...
------------------------
but save your breath ....this conversations boring ....

Recoiljunky
March 7, 2011, 03:18 PM
How does the arguing continue are we in kindergarden.

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 03:29 PM
Bigjimp and oneounceshot there both Mr. know it all. there right and every body else is wrong. so sense i can't call it skeet what should I call it throwing lead a orange painted clay circles.

sirsloop
March 7, 2011, 03:50 PM
ghetto skeet

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 04:08 PM
Bigjimp and oneounceshot there both Mr. know it all.

It seems, in this instance, we just might be - at least compared to your ideas of the game.

zippy13
March 7, 2011, 04:46 PM
I put this post up to let people now how fun it was to skeet shoot with a Saiga 12 and what happens my post got bashed.
You got bashed because you bragged about violating the basic safety rules of Skeet. Why do we refer to the rules of Skeet, because you labeled the thread Skeet Shooting With Saiga 12The officer used the 10 round when everybody was done just to see if he could hit 10 skeets in a row none stop.

Bigjimp and oneounceshot there both Mr. know it all. there right and every body else is wrong. so sense i can't call it skeet what should I call it throwing lead a orange painted clay circles. My friends BigJimP and Oneounceload definitely know more than you, and some of the others, about shooting sports safely rules. They also know the difference between targets and "skeets" (and the difference between a circle and a disc). What we have is a failure to communicate. Skeet is a proper noun and describes a specific shotgun sport, it's not used to describe the clay targets. When you shoot pool do you call the balls "pools"? Or, when bowling, do you call the pins "bowlings"? It seems this entire controversy was instigated by your incorrect word selection. Perhaps, had the thread been titled, Fun with with a Saiga 12 you wouldn't have been bashed, and others wouldn't have been sucked into unnecessary controversy.

Marrok
March 7, 2011, 05:39 PM
Zippy, even if it was titled "fun with saiga 12", if he mentioned he did skeet shooting with it, you guys would still bash him for it.

If he was doing an actual event, I would say you guys are in the clear about it. But he did mention it was for fun/ a game, NOT a true skeet shoot.

Iam pretty sure Iam going to leave this forum, people on other forums rejoiced and think it was an awesome idea. No one bashed him for having fun, so if I were too go out with friends skeet shooting with a Saiga 12 and posted about it you guys would probably bash me the same way.

Just when you think you find a civilized place to talk guns, you find a bunch of *******s who love to talk ****.

consider this my goodbye.

Recoiljunky
March 7, 2011, 05:52 PM
I'm still on rottiemans side, but for you other two don't you think you should educate instead of bashing someone. I even would of called it shooting skeet too. just how I call it shooting 5stand when I have the guy throw 5 different clays true.

krimmie
March 7, 2011, 06:03 PM
I shoot skeet and sporting clays at a Public range, they do not allow barrels under 24".

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 06:14 PM
Its doesn't matter how I word it. If one of you guys started to read it would of gone down hill from there.You guys are going by the "OFFICIAL RULE BOOK OF SKEET" I have said more then once I was shooting a hybrid game of skeet.What is wrong with changing the game up a little bit and every one is ok with it and every body is shooting safe. When I shoot skeet/trap I am just in competition with my self. Yes I am not following the the "Official" rules of skeet but ever one had fun and went home safe. Like oneounceload said it all has to do with safety. The game was play with all the safety rules still in place, no loaded guns until your turn to shoot, gun pointed down range when loaded,and bolt open and gun empty before leaving station. The range I go to is open to the public so they my let people get away with a little bit more cause from what I have read it seams the range you guys go to is a Members Only Club thats why i think the rule book of skeet keeps popping up. I do have to say that some times what people type in here may be read wrong and people take it the wrong way and then it becomes a brawl.

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 06:33 PM
Actually, I shoot at several public/member clubs. Are there times when someone decides to shoot nothing but doubles on the skeet field? Yep - (it is also a legal game). I could care less if you want to do things differently, as long as you follow safety protocols - which is where the 2 rounds - no more - comes from

If you are safe, and that club has no issue with you loading 4 rounds at a time, then have at it. That has never been allowed on any skeet field at any club - public or private - I have shot at. Now do they occasionally have 3-shot shoots on the 5-stand? Yep, and everyone is given the safety talk, etc as the only guns capable are pumps or semis - again, no biggie if things are done safely.

Recoiljunky
March 7, 2011, 06:53 PM
Nope it's only a single, 2shots report, and 2 shots true at each station bit that but the range officers will throw whatever you want "after you prove to them you can handle the gun safely and are atleast desently skilled" you pay to shoot the 25 pigeons so you cam shoot them however you want.

zippy13
March 7, 2011, 07:06 PM
rottieman33,
In post #54, I mentioned the club had a large sign board with their rules clearly spelled out. I've never been to a range that didn't have such safety signs, or hand-outs. The club safety rules are usually the same as the safety rules for Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays national competition. If your local club doesn't have any standing safety rules, then you might be better off training is a stubble field.

If some of us come on a little strong about gun safety it's because we've been long time members of clubs where every member is a safety officer and that carries over to the forum. For those of you who have mentioned that you just leave a field when you have safety concerns, if it happens again, please take the time to inform the RM or RSO.

rottieman33
March 7, 2011, 07:12 PM
If i saw some one shooting from the roof of the skeet house I would find the range master. Cause that is just stupid

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 07:55 PM
If i saw some one shooting from the roof of the skeet house I would find the range master. Cause that is just stupid

NOW you're beginning to understand where we have been coming from all along........;):D

minnpatriot
March 7, 2011, 09:36 PM
Nice work rottie, its a sad day when some gunowners turn out to be liberty hating folks. The 2nd amendment if for all to enjoy in thier own legal way. Skeet with a pump or semi auto......your damn right thats a legal way to enjoy your gun rights.

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 09:44 PM
Since when does being safe with a gun and following established safety protocols mean someoine is anti-gun?

YOUR misguided attempt is just the ammunition the antis LOVE to read in places like this - keep it up, you're hurting the cause of all gun owners with irresponsible comments/actions/behaviors

frick74
March 7, 2011, 09:45 PM
Wow, never felt the need to register, until now.

This thread reminds me why I have never joined a formal gun club of any type, not to mention, why I quit golfing.

It was always the guy with the Pings, and the most expensive balls, that would jump up and shout, every time I moved a ball 6 inches to get it off a rock.

And inevitably, I would catch them moving the ball six feet, if nobody was looking.

Hey one ounce, is your last name "Sinjen Smythe"?

Yeah, I know its not spelled correctly, buts its how you come across.

What does it hurt, if somebody, at some other club shoots with a Saiga?

And, for that matter, what does it hurt if somebody is carrying a pistol concealed, or openly?

We can carry openly in PA, with no permit, and sometimes, I choose to do so, one of the places I always carried, was the golf course. Seems like one time I stepped into the tall grass, near a creek, and there lurked a big old copperhead, it was a warm day, and he didn't feel like bothering me, but, that didn't rule out the need to dispatch him if the situation merited it.

S**t happens, and you don't have the luxury to decide you should have carried, and you didn't.

What , if Mr. St. John/Smith decides to lose it, and start shooting the people around him, two shells max, per person, of course, because some redneck, with his 500 dollar Saiga just hosed him, by shooting more "Skeets" with his Kmart bulk Federals, than he did with his Lamborghini shotty, using custom loaded Winchester AA's, that have their 9 shot polished by third world women swishing them around in their mouth with tooth pumice and olive oil?

We can't all be aristocrats, but, we are all allowed to do as we wish, under the rule of law, and just because it makes you feel uncomfortable....Get over it.

Besides, I have only so much time free from my video games, scratchin my privates, chewing snuff, and hankering over which new gun I'm gonna purchase, and carry, just to make people like you, uncomfortable.

Balog
March 7, 2011, 09:49 PM
I'm still confused about how carrying a holstered side arm is either a safety issue or a potential sign of instability. I'm especially confused since the posters raising this objection feel that it is perfectly acceptable to do so if: at a rifle range, or if the side arm is covered by a garment.

I'll also note that this is one of the most vitriolic, least civil threads I've read on this forum. All the name calling is uncalled for, and reduces the credibility of those participating in it. It reminds me of when I visited the local range for the first (and one of the last) times and politely asked the rangemaster if there were any 3 gun or ipsc/idpa type competitions at their range and was treated to a lengthy harangue about the lack of intelligence and general low morals of those who participate in such activities. Why, some fella in the next county over got shot doing that! :barf:

I've been considering buying a shotgun again, as it's far easier to find a nearby range to practice shotgun games than any type of practical rifle or pistol. After this thread, I'm not so sure.

oneounceload
March 7, 2011, 09:50 PM
Hey one ounce, is your last name "Sinjen Smythe"?

Yeah, I know its not spelled correctly, buts its how you come across.

What does it hurt, if somebody, at some other club shoots with a Saiga?

It hurts when someone gets shot or killed because of stupidity because they weren't following the safety rules. Maybe you should read ALL of what has been written instead of parsing a few talking points

What , if Mr. St. John/Smith decides to lose it, and start shooting the people around him, two shells max, per person, of course, because some redneck, with his 500 dollar Saiga just hosed him, by shooting more "Skeets" with his Kmart bulk Federals, than he did with his Lamborghini shotty, using custom loaded Winchester AA's, that have their 9 shot polished by third world women swishing them around in their mouth with tooth pumice and olive oil?

And this immature childish blather is exactly why ranges have rules.....

FG42
March 7, 2011, 10:01 PM
Explain to me how one of you fudds could get hurt with a 10 round mag easier than you could with a over under or a pump gun, unless by hurt you mean BUTTHURT

rickb2202
March 7, 2011, 10:05 PM
kind of reminds me of when snowboards first came out. they were outlawed at most ski resorts, until people saw what could be done with them!!!

FG42
March 7, 2011, 10:07 PM
thank god he didn't show up with a drum, there would need to be a mass changing of adult diapers

frick74
March 7, 2011, 10:08 PM
What range rules would prevent someone "Accidentally" being shot by a concealed, or open handgun?

IF, you are playing Pistol Skeets, then perhaps I could agree that only one loaded gun on the stand was proper.

Seeing that there is no chance, 40 caliber ammo, is accidentally going to find its way into a 12 ga. shotgun, I find your safety argument, not only stupid, but superfluous to the topic at hand.

And you can't even present a good argument to counter your statements.


"And this immature childish blather is exactly why ranges have rules....."

Seriously?

You did play the lead role as the golf course owner in your Harvard classes rendition of "Caddyshack" and your reprising it here, correct?

And I am of course, Rodney Dangerfield, bringing his optically sighted Saiga putter to play on your golf course?

Ha, ha, thats it, isn't it?

Or is it "Peter Griffin" you fear showing up at your Skeety range?

But forgive me, I blather on, and on.....

You sir, if you are in fact a gun owner, represent the worst kind, the closed minded, set in his way, afraid to see beyond the length of his nose, type, that feels anyone expressing their 2nd Amendment rights, somehow, threatens you.

When in fact, you would be the first to toss your Saiga on the fire, if the Government told you to do so, in order to keep your precious, double barreled, In-graved, Skeety Shooter.

To quote a famous line from Monty Python's "Holy Grail" film, "Now. Go away, or I shall fart in your general direction". (Please, imagine a very poor, french accent on the prior quote.)....

minnpatriot
March 7, 2011, 10:09 PM
lol funny stuff .....diapers and all.

Shane Tuttle
March 7, 2011, 10:10 PM
This is getting rediculously childish. I don't know what's worse; the lousy information given in this thread or the childish responses instead of hitting the report icon...

Closed.