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Max007
March 6, 2011, 04:51 PM
I was in a local gun shop recently for an unrelated reason, and was shown a Moossberg 500 in 410.
I was told that it was a good HD gun with light recoil. I've never owned a shotgun, and was wondering if this was true.

Noreaster
March 6, 2011, 04:54 PM
Not bad with buckshot or slugs. Ever since the Taurus Judge came out there has been 410 SD shells being sold. Last year a buddy's kid shot and killed a doe with a 410 slug.

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 05:36 PM
I look at it this way its a gun you point it at anybody thats breaks in to your house there going to run or be in a lot of pain after you shoot them.

kaylorinhi
March 6, 2011, 05:59 PM
Heck, bird shot close-enough would work!

sirsloop
March 6, 2011, 07:09 PM
Sure it'll work, but for my money I'll be shooting 12 gauge with 3" 00 Buck. I'm not on board with the low recoil crowd. With this stuff it'll only take one well aimed shot to put em down.

kozak6
March 6, 2011, 07:41 PM
Good? I don't know if I would use that word.

Adequate? Perhaps. .410 slugs are comparable to a spicy pistol cartridge. 5 00 pellets aren't too bad.

The thing is, though, is that if you are going to go with a shotgun for defense, the only reason to go with a .410 would be for light weight or low recoil.

At similar velocities, what do you think is going to be more effective?
A 1/5 oz slug, or a 1 oz slug?

5 00 pellets? Or 9 pellets? Or how about 12 pellets?

pelo801
March 6, 2011, 09:16 PM
I think the 410 get the short end by people comparing it to the 12 ga. Well we all know it's no 12 ga. The winchester 410 3 inch slugs are about 110 gr. going about 1800 ft/sec. Well according to the box. Even at 1600 ft/sec., that's a really spicy pistol round.
http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/index.htm
I found this link, that has come charts and graph comparisions. You can decide for yourself. I realize the 410 has some limitations, but mostly for hunting. We're talking about HD though. Maybe you don't like shooting a 12 ga. or don't like the recoil. I don't hear anybody saying a 38 spl isn't enough for HD. So a 3 inch shell of 00 buck, 5 pellets, is just shy of 5 38 spl at once at a lot higher velocity. I think that's plenty. I found this too, i'ts more about hunting. I still think it's interesting, especially the part about comparing the 410 to 10mm, 357, and 44-40.
http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwslug.html
I'm not trying to start a debate here. I just think the 410 is a good HD weapon. And probably could kill a dear out to 60 yds. Maybe farther.

Dave McC
March 6, 2011, 09:56 PM
It beats bare hands, or even a baseball bat. But, try out some shotguns before committing your cash to one.

Marrok
March 6, 2011, 10:03 PM
I own a single shot NEF 410. I know from my experience using the gun that it would be perfect for home defense.

Buck or bird doesnt really matter, most intruders see a gun and run, those that are stupid enough to stay will definitely regret it either way. 12 gauge shotguns take alot of credit and deserve it. But comparing the two is like comparing a ferrari and a ford fiesta. they both will do what you need, even if one is more powerful than the other.

this has been mentioned on other forums I frequent and its the same all over.

A 410 will do the job, dont let anyone tell you different. Ive had family take monster deer with a 410 when people said it was impossible. Its your decision on what you pick.

rottieman33
March 6, 2011, 10:06 PM
Get a Saiga 12,20, or 410 and get a 10 round mag

Fiv3
March 7, 2011, 10:57 AM
I keep a .410 as a truck gun. It's mainly for "just in case". I have various different shells stocked for defense, varmint, and food.

Would I want to rely on a .410 single, double, or pump for home/camp defense? Not if I had a choice. However, it's a Saiga with a 15 round mag. What it lacks in raw power, it makes up for shots on target and speed of follow up shots.

Nice little camp/truck gun that can be pressed into defense if need be.

sirsloop
March 7, 2011, 11:20 AM
5 00 pellets? Or 9 pellets? Or how about 12 pellets?

Or 15? :D

hogcowboy
March 7, 2011, 11:39 AM
My wife's go to is a .410. She's very comfortable with that size gun. So I'd say if you're looking for a light recoil gun, that's it.

zippy13
March 7, 2011, 11:55 AM
To those of us who are primarily shotgunners, a .410-bore is a mouse load typically relegated to .410-bore clay target events, firearms familiarization for youngsters, and nuisance targets. Like many folks, my good guns are locked away; but, there's the ancestral single-shot 3" .410 in the coat closet and a box of shells in the mantle clock. It's not my HD go-to gun.

On the other hand, to a pistol shooter, a .410-bore shot shell makes a revolver a hand cannon. It's the proliferation of the .410-bore revolvers and "HD" loads specially tailored to them that has folks thinking about the .410-bore as an appropriate HD load.

Is the .410-bore shot shell appropriate for HD, it all depends on your perspective. But, as Dave McC reminded us, "It beats bare hands…"

oletymer
March 9, 2011, 11:26 AM
The 3 inch Winchester 410 buckshot load contains 5 000 pellets not 00. Any one getting hit at HD range with that load is going to be severely injured or dead.

markj
March 9, 2011, 05:43 PM
If a man pointed one at me I would ask him not to shoot me with that, it can kill a person. A bb gun can kill a person so why argue over how effective it is? Use what you feel comfy with and be prepared.

Most folks will never ever need any type of defense at all. But, best have a plan in case it does.

Buzzard Bait
March 12, 2011, 03:21 PM
I think the 410 buck shot load is an interesting load that may need more work. I saw a web sight that had tested the rounds in some different targets. It looked like the top pellet came out in good shape but the bottom balls looked like they were flat as a washer by the time the got out of the barrel. seems like if the load had some sort of plastic discarding sleeve to protect and support the balls or filler it would perform better. Most 410 shot guns are easy to shoot and easy to get good hits with. No denying that 4 or 5 double or triple 0 pellets at that kind of velocity with the ability for more follow up rounds in a hurry is a HD round to be considered.
bb

SHR970
March 12, 2011, 05:04 PM
The best thing that happened to the 410 is the Taurus Judge. Not because the gun is great or anything like that but because its popularity has made the big manufacturers to rethink their 410 offerings and use better components.

I have long been tired of the '410 is worthless use a 12 gauge with reduced recoil loads' statements floated. This thinking is ususally associated with those that think the 12 gauge is the beginning and end of the conversation.

Let's look at some of the offerings betwen the two.

00 Buck Nominal weight 53 gr. Diameter .33"
000 Buck Nominal weight 70 gr. Diameter .36"

12 Gauge reduced recoil 00 Buck: SAAMI barrel length 30"
9 pellet velocity 1125 fps (source Winchester)
8 pellet velocity 1200 fps (source Remington)


410 bore: SAAMI barrel length 26"
2 1/2"
3 pellet 000 Buck velocity 1300 fps (source Winchester)
4 pellet 000 Buck velocity 1200 fps (source Federal)

3"
5 Pellet 000 Buck velocity 1135 fps (source Winchester)
5 pellet 00 Buck velocity 1230 fps (source Sellier & Bellot)

Both loads can lose between 50 -100 fps when fired from an 18.5 in barrel. However, the 410 gives up nothing in velocity when compared to a 12 gauge firing a reduce recoil load of any flavor. Since you are usually firing 000 Buck in the 410, your per pellet energy is going to be 25-30% greater. A shotguns main effectiveness comes from multiple hits shocking the body into shutting down much like a burst from a SMG. Since we are talking houshold distances you can reasonably expect to put all pellets on target. Whether its a three pellet load, a four pellet load, or a five pellet load; hit a goblin in the boiler room with a 410 buck load and you will ruin his day. Is a 410 the best choice? Not really but neither is an 18 pellet load from a 12 or 10 gauge 3 1/2" shell.

Go to Brassfetcher, then the "Old Website" link and look at the results of the Winchester 3" load from an 18" barrel.

Superhouse 15
March 12, 2011, 08:28 PM
My ex was recoil sensitive and I bought her the HD .410 Mossberg. I'm glad I got it in the Divorce. I kept S&B "Spherical Bullet" buckshot in it until I got my hands on the Winchester PDX loads (in the gun now) and Federal's Judge load (in Tuff Strips). It's still in my safe, near the front, just in case.

Big Bill
March 13, 2011, 01:50 AM
I wouldn't own a 410. You might as well just spit on the perp.

shortwave
March 13, 2011, 08:56 AM
If I didn't have anything else for HD but a 410, you bet a 410 is what I'd be using.

If I were shopping for a HD(only) shotgun, I'd be looking at either a 20 or 12ga.

You might as well just spit on the perp.

Big Bill,
You may want to research the statistics on how many people have been killed by the .410 either in defense situations or hunting accidents.

Granted, the 410 wouldn't be my first choice for HD but I think you have grossly under-estimated the lethal effectiveness of a properly placed 410 load of 00buck, shot out of an 18"(or longer) full choke bbl at HD/SD distance.

ratshooter
March 13, 2011, 03:31 PM
I have a friend who went to school with a kid that killed his stepdad with a 410. The step dad kept beating on his mom and one day the kid just went off.

When he shot the stepdad he said he fell flat on his back. The shot blew his heart out of his chest and he stated the heart beat for a bit then stopped. My friend said this kid was a little different after that. I guess he should have tried spitting on his stepdad first. I am sure he would have been just as incapacitated.

I wouldn't have any problem using a 410 for home defense. I just loaded three .390 balls in a 410 hull and shot a 2x4 about 15 feet away. It blew through the board and badly splintered the back side of the wood. I wish I had of had a couple more boards behind the first to see what the total penetration was. If you think that is a weak load grab a 2x4 and see if with all your strength you can stab a screw driver through it. You can't. Not even half way.

Shane Tuttle
March 13, 2011, 04:09 PM
I look at it this way its a gun you point it at anybody thats breaks in to your house there going to run or be in a lot of pain after you shoot them.

This isn't necessarily the case.

Granted, the 410 wouldn't be my first choice for HD but I think you have grossly under-estimated the lethal effectiveness of a properly placed 410 load of 00buck, shot out of an 18"(or longer) full choke bbl at HD/SD distance.

I wonder how much effectiveness is lost with the barrel length the Judge offers?

MLeake
March 13, 2011, 04:21 PM
Sure.

Would it offer any advantage over a 20ga for HD? Not that I can see, unless an intended user is severely recoil sensitive.

Like some others here, I'd personally go with a 12ga or a 20ga. (In fact, the HD long-gun at my place is a Remington 870 with a 21" smoothbore slug barrel.) I have no trouble with 12ga recoil, and my lady can handle it quite well; however, she would prefer a 20ga, if she were going to get into sporting use.

While there are some good .410 loads out there these days, it's still easier to find a wide variety in 12ga, and probably also in 20ga.

shortwave
March 13, 2011, 10:37 PM
I wonder how much effectiveness is lost with the barrel length the Judge offers?

Thats a good question Shane.

I've never chronographed the Judge with any ammo I've shot through mine.

10mmAuto
March 13, 2011, 10:42 PM
My M&P 15-22 would get the job done if someone broke into my house but I think I'd rather have my 5.56x45mm.

12 gauge is plenty cheap enough to practice enough to be highly proficient with and pretty much any grown man can manipulate it well/mitigate recoil well. If you are concerned about recoil you can always get an automatic, a heavier shotgun or a Supernova with the built in recoil compensation. 2c.

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 12:33 PM
My M&P 15-22 would get the job done if someone broke into my house but I think I'd rather have my 5.56x45mm.

12 gauge is plenty cheap enough to practice enough to be highly proficient with and pretty much any grown man can manipulate it well/mitigate recoil well. If you are concerned about recoil you can always get an automatic, a heavier shotgun or a Supernova with the built in recoil compensation. 2c.
Yesterday 10:37 PM

Good post. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with the thread or the question the OP asked.

macsters
March 14, 2011, 12:53 PM
My M&P 15-22 would get the job done if someone broke into my house but I think I'd rather have my 5.56x45mm.

12 gauge is plenty cheap enough to practice enough to be highly proficient with and pretty much any grown man can manipulate it well/mitigate recoil well. If you are concerned about recoil you can always get an automatic, a heavier shotgun or a Supernova with the built in recoil compensation.

Good post. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with the thread or the question the OP asked.

actually, it raises an excellent point. 10mm was saying that while his .22 could be used in HD/SD, he would rather have his .223. Similarly, while the .410 would work, a 12 gauge would be preferable.

10mm then went on to address out some of the other concerns with 12 gauge that the OP might need to take into account, and how to solve them, which is useful information considering the OP's admission that he is not a shotgun owner and presumably not extremely well informed in that area.

has plenty to do with the thread and the op's question.

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 01:03 PM
I am glad you cleared up 10MMs post for him. And I fully understood his post. But the OP didn't ask anything about 22s, 223s or 12 guages. He ask about the suitability of using a 410 for home defense.

I give everyone the benefit of doubt and assume that they know a bigger bore will be more effective than a smaller bore. The OP was looking at a 410 in a local gunstore and ask how well it would work for HD. Not what everyone else uses or keeps for HD. Thats not too hard is it?

10mmAuto
March 14, 2011, 01:31 PM
I am glad you cleared up 10MMs post for him.
I'm sorry you were so mystified by me using an example from the exotic world of centerfire rifles that is totally applicable to his question.

The OP was looking at a 410 in a local gunstore and ask how well it would work for HD. Not what everyone else uses or keeps for HD. Thats not too hard is it?
Unless somebody here has actually tagged a grown man with a .410, pretty much the best we can do is say "It would probably work, but 12 gauge would definitely work based on what we know it does to game and its terminal affect on human targets in combat over the last century".

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 02:30 PM
I'm sorry you were so mystified by me using an example from the exotic world of centerfire rifles that is totally applicable to his question
Nope, not mystified at all. Just trying to stay on topic of a 410 for home defense. There is absolutly nothing in his question about centerfire rifles.

Unless somebody here has actually tagged a grown man with a .410, pretty much the best we can do is say "It would probably work, but 12 gauge would definitely work based on what we know it does to game and its terminal affect on human targets in combat over the last century".

I gave an example of a grown man "tagged" with a 410 in my earlier post. Guess you missed it. I don't think anyone ever questioned the effectiveness of the 12 guage on a human target. With proper ammo it works about as as good as it gets.

MLeake
March 14, 2011, 02:34 PM
... the term would be "an analogy," and I think everybody else got it, and nobody else had an issue with it.

I thought 10mmAuto was dead-on.

The .410 would be a workable option, but there are much better options available, with the sole exception of an intended shooter who can't handle any more than .410 recoil.

If the OP has somebody in the house with arthritis, etc, then maybe the .410 is best. Otherwise, the bigger bores offer more power and more options.

10mmAuto
March 14, 2011, 02:37 PM
I have a friend who went to school with a kid that killed his stepdad with a 410. The step dad kept beating on his mom and one day the kid just went off.

When he shot the stepdad he said he fell flat on his back. The shot blew his heart out of his chest and he stated the heart beat for a bit then stopped. My friend said this kid was a little different after that. I guess he should have tried spitting on his stepdad first. I am sure he would have been just as incapacitated.
No real information about the details of the shooting including load (was it a slug, shot, what size shot?), range, etc, just that he was shot in the heart (of course it was lethal). Third hand information. A sample size of one. Not exactly what I'd call compelling stuff.

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 02:39 PM
... the term would be "an analogy," and I think everybody else got it, and nobody else had an issue with it.

I don't have an issue with it either. Like I stated I am just trying to stay on topic and answer the question the OP asked. And I know it was an analogy. It doesn't address the original question.

But you folks go ahead and tell the OP what he should buy, what you use and what he ought to get. I'm done here.

ratshooter
March 14, 2011, 02:42 PM
No real information about the details of the shooting including load, range, etc, just that he was shot in the heart (of course it was lethal). Third hand information. A sample size of one. Not exactly what I'd call compelling stuff.

You are completely correct. An example of one. And no, I don't know the load, range or anything else. And yes, a heart shot. But shouldn't they all be heart shots? Thats why shot placement is harped on so much.

Just so you know I keep two 12s and a 20 guage ready for home defense myself. If the OP has a choice, and it sounds like he does I would heartily recommend something bigger than a 410 for HD.

Now I'm done.:D

10mmAuto
March 14, 2011, 02:49 PM
But shouldn't they all be heart shots? Thats why shot placement is harped on so much.
Unless you're training with some combat arms unit every day or something like that, probably not. There's a lot of physiological and psychological reasons that a first time shooter who hasn't trained very extensively under extremely realistic conditions won't shoot quite as well as they did when they were practicing. This is why you see lots of cops dump their magazines during their first officer involved shooting. Even a lot of people who are experienced at room clearing in operational environments will relate that their first time they shot their target 5-6+ times rapidly instead of the two they were trained, even though the first two would have been more than adequate (this example is drawn from a friend of mine who recently "retired" from 7th SFG).

markj
March 14, 2011, 03:40 PM
Well I know of a guy was shot with a 12 ga and is still alive. Heck he was shot by the Vice Pres of our country :) altho I would not be proud of that.

If a guy wants to use a 410, I see no problem there, it will plain kill a person.

May be a better option if recoil is a problem.

Shane Tuttle
March 14, 2011, 06:44 PM
Now I'm done

Good. In the future, hit the red triangle called the report button instead of exaserbating the thread drift...

Now, back to the OP's question...

oneounceload
March 14, 2011, 07:02 PM
WOW, lots of huffing and puffing, all backed up with....................nothing

a 410, loaded with its three balls of buck will do the same damage as a J frame with +P ammo, except it's firing three rounds at a time - what's wrong with that? Is it "the best"?......more likely a 50BMG would be better - but then, practicality shuns some folks here

MLeake
March 14, 2011, 07:59 PM
... "huffing and puffing" aside, I think the point some of us were making is that the .410 could work for HD.

I don't think you're arguing that it would be a better choice than 12 or 20, though, are you?

But IIRC, the OP was asking about .410 because some guy at a gun shop told him it would be best for HD.

Based on the OP then asking us our thoughts, I get the impression he's a fairly new shooter. I wouldn't recommend a .410 to most adults as a first shotgun. Most of the people I know who use .410 are either kids who are learning to shoot; people with recoil or hand strength issues; or - at the far other end - extremely skilled shooters who either like the challenge of using a .410 in shooting sports, or who want to minimize meat or pelt damage on small critters.

So I'll stick with my answer: 12 and 20 are more powerful, and offer a better array of both defensive and hunting loads; both are more versatile. The .410 would only be something I'd recommend to a new shooter who couldn't handle the 12 or 20.

Buzzard Bait
March 14, 2011, 08:34 PM
"Well I know of a guy was shot with a 12 ga as still alive. Heck he was shot the Vice Pres of our country altho I would not be proud of that."

Come on guys the ex vp uses a 28 gauge and 7.5 shot, and for the record that attorney went straight down and stayed down, the distance was longer than a home defence encounter and it had penetration up to his heart muscle, it nearly killed him he was definitely out of the fight. The 410 may not be the best hd but if you have one and need it to serve in that capacity the new advances in defence ammo makes it a player worthy of respect from the business end.
bb

SHR970
March 15, 2011, 08:43 AM
WOW, lots of huffing and puffing, all backed up with....................nothing

a 410, loaded with its three balls of buck will do the same damage as a J frame with +P ammo, except it's firing three rounds at a time - what's wrong with that? Is it "the best"?......more likely a 50BMG would be better - but then, practicality shuns some folks here

Thank you oneounce, it looks like at least one person read what I posted which is all factually based on info provided by the manufacturers.

Assuming a 5 round 000 Buck load, pull the trigger once and you deliver an entire J frame worth of hurt on a bad guy. Pull it twice and you have delivered a 12 gauge magnum load of 000 Buck or two J frames worth of hurt. Pull it three times....well you should have the idea by now.

A 410 beats a tennis racket or broom stick any day. A 410 in the hands of a novice with buck beats handguns in the hands of a novice any day because they are much more likely to get a multiple hit with the 410 and miss with the handgun. If you think seeing the businiess end of a 410 is going to make a bad guy take the situation any less seriously, you have never had to point a gun at another man in anger.

oneounceload
March 15, 2011, 10:54 AM
I don't think you're arguing that it would be a better choice than 12 or 20, though, are you?

Not at all - so let's not compare oranges to tangerines with the 410 to 12 gauge - If I had a choice between a 410 or a knife/broom handle/baseball bat - even a j-frame or similar - I'd take the 410 loaded with buck

Several hits with a 410 buckshot load beats several misses with a 12 gauge buckshot load - every time

10mmAuto
March 15, 2011, 04:56 PM
Several hits with a 410 buckshot load beats several misses with a 12 gauge buckshot load
Unless you're a kid, an octogenarian or a female 12 gauge is not exactly difficult to utilize or execute fast follow ups with. 410 would be a fine and probably preferable choice for any of the above categories but that's it.

oneounceload
March 15, 2011, 05:51 PM
Unless you're a kid, an octogenarian or a female 12 gauge is not exactly difficult to utilize or execute fast follow ups with. 410 would be a fine and probably preferable choice for any of the above categories but that's it.

Well, that's quite insulting to women in general, and you missed folks with physical infirmaries that may prevent them using a 12, and let's not forget that not everyone who owns a shotgun for HD plans to run 3-gun drills every week.......:rolleyes:

10mmAuto
March 15, 2011, 06:31 PM
you missed folks with physical infirmaries that may prevent them using a 12
People with physical or mental handicaps that might prevent them from accomplishing a task without undue risk to injure others or themselves ought not do it. Be it shooting a 12 gauge or anything. This should pretty much be implied with everything, I don't need to say it.

(Added) You don't need to practice often with a 12 gauge to be more than passably competent with it either. I was knocking birds down on the move the first day I used my friend's Benelli, well before I owned my own. Shotgun marksmanship isn't exactly as practice intensive as handgun marksmanship, especially for SD.

Also, I'm not sure how that's insulting to females. Show me the percentage of females who are 5'8"-6'1" and a muscular (hell, even fat would do) 180-220lbs compared to males. Big things get pushed around less than little things by the same amount of energy and muscle (or fat) will help soften an all day practice beating from a 12 gauge without any discomfort.

oneounceload
March 15, 2011, 07:14 PM
Shotgun marksmanship isn't exactly as practice intensive as handgun marksmanship, especially for SD.


Your opinion, in my experience, your opinion is not correct. Folks with physical infirmaries, whether temporary or permanent who read these threads would get the idea from a lot of posts that the only acceptable load for HD is some uber-buckshot load in 12 gauge - that simply is not correct

10mmAuto
March 15, 2011, 09:43 PM
Your opinion, in my experience, your opinion is not correct.
My guess is then you haven't done any contemporary training for armed combat with carbines/shotguns/handguns in the military or with a police department. Shotguns are easier to use at a high level within their effective range than carbines and MUCH easier to master than pistol use. You don't even have to have done it to see why. Longer sight radius, two points of contact and multiple projectiles. I don't think I've ever met anyone who is a subject matter expert that thought the combat shotgun was a harder thing to master than the pistol or that the shotgun isn't the easiest of the "three guns" to use passably. Typically if interpreters are armed they're given shotguns for just that reason.

Folks with physical infirmaries, whether temporary or permanent who read these threads would get the idea from a lot of posts that the only acceptable load for HD is some uber-buckshot load in 12 gauge - that simply is not correct
We already addressed this.

Southern Rebel
March 15, 2011, 11:16 PM
OP, now that we have all of the "fluff and buff" info out of the way, I will try and give you a straightforward answer: :)

The 410 is a reasonable choice as an HD weapon. However, just like handguns are a compromise for HD use and concealed carry, the 410 is a compromise. Compromise is not a bad word - it just means that you are willing to make trade-offs based on your personal needs or wishes.

Your odds of a "successful intervention" of a bad guy's plans can be somewhat better with a 20 or 12 - you just have to decide what personal attributes of the 410 do you like well enough to accept a potential reduction in those odds. For example, I typically carry a 9mm daily because it is light and very concealable. I value those two attributes enough to accept the the lighter bullet and lesser velocity that I could get from my 44 magnum. I truly believe the 44 magnum gives me better odds for a sucessful defense of my life, but I believe the 9mm is a reasonable defense weapon and accept the trade-offs.

Just be sure you have done your homework as to what you feel you are gaining with the choice of the 410 and what you are giving up.

Pezo
March 16, 2011, 07:16 PM
With manage recoil buck loads in 12 gauge, such as the 8 pellet reduced recoil remington load 00. The recoil is very manageable, even the recoil sensitive could easily handle it and it patterns great. The only advantage I can see with the 410 is the smaller physical size of the weapon. Could less unwieldy. I like the versatility of my 12 gauge but its larger in size then a junior 410.

ltc444
March 16, 2011, 07:57 PM
Mossberg ran an add a number when it marketed a 410 for home defense. If memory serves, they claimed that slugs were equivelant to a 30-30. Buck shot loads were equal to a 44 mag. I never checked this out.

Once again the question is does the weapon fit the user, is the user confortable and able to hit a target under stress.

An individual I know of used to load three 100 grain 308 plinker bullets in a 410 case. He used them on an individual with good effect. A flechett load would be equally effective.

kozak6
March 16, 2011, 11:56 PM
I don't know about fletchettes. It seems most ballistic tests show them to be ineffective. The .410 is also rather limited in case volume, so you wouldn't be able to fit many of them in shell. The use of exotic ammo could also potentially lead to issues in the courtroom if you ever had to use them.

A 12 gauge offers a lot more versatility as well. If one wanted, it would be possible to use it for hunting or shooting sports, while in those roles the .410 is basically an expert's gun. Cheaper 12 gauge ammo also makes it a lot easier to get practice in.

oneounceload
March 17, 2011, 12:16 PM
A flechett load would be equally effective.

Not the wisest choice, especially for HD, from both a legal and practical standpoint

markj
March 17, 2011, 03:09 PM
The shells for my 12 ga cost less than the super crappy 410 loads.

aarondhgraham
March 17, 2011, 03:13 PM
The shells for my 12 ga cost less than the super crappy 410 loads.

Best reason for not using a 410 that I can think of,,,
If a 12 gauge is too hot as far as recoil,,,
Go for a 20 gauge instead.

A few years ago my Pop was going to buy our nephew a Rossi 22/410 combo,,,
Until I showed him what had happened to the price of 410 ammo.

What did happen to the price anyways,,,
I missed when it went through the rooftop.

Aarond

Fiv3
March 18, 2011, 10:39 AM
What did happen to the price anyways,,,
I missed when it went through the rooftop.

Two words:
Taurus Judge;)

What was once thought of as a non-destructive small game getter and a challenging skeet gun is now marketed as the ultimate point-it-at-the-bad-guy-and-blow-him-out-of-his-boots handgun:rolleyes: I mean, they ARE cool toys, and shooting .410 out of a revolver does make a sizable (and fun) controlled explosion. However, I never understood why it is believed that a long gun that chambers 3" .410 and scoots it down a 19+" barrel is thought to be a caliber that will only mildly PO a bad guy, yet when a 2.5" shell is fired from a 3" barrel it magically disintegrates a man into pudding:confused:

That said, sure I think .410 CAN be a viable HD load if that is all ya got/all ya can handle/all ya want. I wouldn't get the warm and fuzzies inspecting a noise with a .410 single shot, but that can be said for a lot of single shot guns. .22 up to a .50, a miss is a miss. One of the reasons I like my .410 Saiga so much is that it offers a lot of firepower in a lighter package than a Saiga-12. A sweep with a 10 round mag can be emptied in less than 2 seconds throwing a lot of lead out there.

In an HD situation I'd still sprint for the 12 gauge 870 pump in a heartbeat, though. The Saiga is a fun gun/truck/camping gun. It does just enough right to be worth packing along without the weight of a 12 gauge.

seeker_two
March 18, 2011, 06:15 PM
So...what we're saying is...while a .410 will kill a BG dead, a 12ga. will kill a BG deader?.... :rolleyes:

For SD, a .410 longgun with proper buckshot or slug loads won't take a back seat to any other choice. Plus, you have a versatile gun that allows for a lot of fun and flexibility....

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220168935

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=220159629

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=219780051