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View Full Version : well, its a mosin nagant thread. sorry.


macsters
March 5, 2011, 12:11 AM
searched (lazily) but could not find answers to these questions.

in the opinions of the other strong and wizened warriors of the firing line, what are the chances that i get a bad one?

also, if its a "good one" what kind of accuracy can i expect? same question for a "bad one"?

if i do get a bad one, is it worth it to try to fix or should i just consider the $100 wasted and go buy another one?

T. O'Heir
March 5, 2011, 02:08 AM
Hi. A great deal depends on the condition and the model. Where it came from matters too. Rummage around here. http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/index.asp
Wouldn't bother to try and fix a $100 milsurp myself. Wouldn't buy any milsurp I couldn't examine either. In any case, when you're dealing with milsurps, of any kind, you pay your money and take your chances these days. Buying from a reputable dealer matters though.

Bamashooter
March 5, 2011, 02:48 AM
The only rifle I ever bought without seeing it first was a mosin nagant from jgsales. I knew I was getting a hex reciever 91/30. When it came it was a 1929 with all matching serial numbers, great bore, and a very good stock. I knew I took a chance but it paid off. Its been a great rifle. I guess sometimes you just got to have faith.

chris in va
March 5, 2011, 02:58 AM
To me, 'Mosin' and 'accuracy' really don't go together. It is what it is, a hastily put together, crude rifle for the conscripts.

kraigwy
March 5, 2011, 09:16 AM
I'm a shooter more then a collector. I got my Mosin to shoot. I went through a rack of them with a bore light and found a good one. The action wasn't too bad for old surplus rifle. Several sessions of dry firing made it better.

As I said, I'm a shooter. The best place for a shooter with Mosin's is the CMP GSM Vintage Rifle Matches. The SR Target used in Vintage Rifle Matches has about a 3.5 MOA X-10 ring, (7 inches in diameter). The "9-10-X ring is 13 inches).

So if you have a 3.5 MOA Rifle, it is capable of cleaning the GSM targets.
If you have a 6.5 in rifle it is capable of scoring 90% at the least, chances are not all those rounds will miss the X-10 and be in the 9 ring so its reasonable to assume half will, that gives you 95%. That would be a 285/300 score on the Course A Vintage Rifle Match. That would give you a Gold Metal in the CMP Games (278 needed for the gold per CMP Rule 9.4.4(4)),

It's really not that unusual to find a Mosin that will shoot 6.5 MOA.

Folks, its the shooter. If you can learn to shoot it just about any Mosin will take care of you.

My Mosin shoots within 3.5 MOA (reloads, I haven't tried surplus). I can't clean the targets but its my fault, not the rifles.

triumph666
March 5, 2011, 01:19 PM
I have a 1897 or 1907(forget which) made all matching number model 91...not the model 91/30.... mine has a 3 inch longer barrel.....that said this gun has regularly claimed squirrels with surplus ammo at 100yds plus

my 91/30 models were not as accurate but would hold 3-4 inch groups at 150yds off a rest so you wont here me complain about their accuracy

doofus47
March 5, 2011, 01:24 PM
the odds of getting a "bad" one are slim. They are accurate, solid, simple and dependable. The imported rifles are generally surplus that were refurbed and stored. If there is still Cosmo or lacquer in the bolt/chamber, you might have to face the dreaded "sticky bolt" issue even if it is a good rifle.

If you can inspect first, do. I went to the local Big 5 and made the poor counter guy pull 8 rifles from the back, but I got a real winner.

DnPRK
March 5, 2011, 04:00 PM
Check the bore condition before you buy.

This means you need to know how to inspect a rifle's bore. For a MN, it's a simple process, but requires practice:
1. Remove the bolt by holding the trigger and retracting the bolt. Set the bolt aside so you have both hands free to hold the rifle.
2. Raise the rifle so you can peer down the bore from the chamber end. With the buttstock resting on top of my shoulder, I like to point the muzzle at an overhead fluorescent light. The light shining down the bore will allow you to see the rifling and chamber walls. (Note: Many novices screw up and allow the clerk to shine a bore light directly into their eye. Politely decline. You cannot see the bore condition when blinded by the bore light.)
3. You are looking for lands with sharp corners, no pitting in the grooves and no pitting in the chamber. It takes practice to learn how to change the focus of your eye as your gaze slowly moves from chamber to throat and along the bore.
4. Flip the rifle around and look down the bore from the muzzle end. Make sure the muzzle isn't nicked or damaged and the lands have not been worn by years of steel cleaning rod use.
5. Re-install the bolt by holding the trigger and pushing the bolt into place.

sc928porsche
March 5, 2011, 06:23 PM
Most military rifles will shoot 1-3 MOA unless it has a bad crown, worn rifleing, or eroded throat.

macsters
March 5, 2011, 11:20 PM
the general consensus here, then, is that as long as i check, i shouldnt have a problem. a local gun store has a case of the things, so i will have lots of looking to do :D

thanks for that link, t. really informative. is their any difference between the hex and round models?

kraigwy, can you give me a link for one of those targets? not sure what the acronyms stand for.

when you said you were running through sessions of dry firing, i am assuming you meant running rounds through it, that is, cycling the bolt, without firing. or did you mean something else? also, that is the kind of accuracy i would expect: 6.5 moa, or smaller if i have pleased the gods recently:p

DnPRK: that was extremely useful. couldnt find some compact "inspect your mosin" info on the web, but you pretty much summed it up there.

kraigwy
March 6, 2011, 01:11 AM
kraigwy, can you give me a link for one of those targets? not sure what the acronyms stand for.

when you said you were running through sessions of dry firing, i am assuming you meant running rounds through it, that is, cycling the bolt, without firing. or did you mean something else? also, that is the kind of accuracy i would expect: 6.5 moa, or smaller if i have pleased the gods recently

The targets are NRA High Power targets, The Vintage military rifles use the SR (Short Range) 200 yard targets. The SR-1 is the 200 yard target reduced for 100 yards.

http://www.tngbbs.com/rifle/nra/hp/Section4.html

As for dry firing, you don't need any dude rounds for slow fire or just working the bolt. Just get a good position, and start working the bolt. The more you do it the smoother it gets. in a Vintage Rifle match you'll shoot 10 rounds standing, single loading. You will also shoot 10 rounds prone slow fire, single loading. There is a rapd fire stage, (10 shots in 80 seconds) which will requilre a reload, Start with a mag full of 5 rounds, fire, then reload with a second clip of 5 rounds.

This will take some practcie. The 5 round clip for the Mosin is tricky. You cant do it like you would a 03 Springfield, Mauser or Enfield.

Stick the clip into the clip guide. Put your thumb on the rear of the top round, take your index finger and pull up the front of the top round as you push down with your thumb. Its not as hard as it sounds. It just takes practice. Load up two stripper clips with dummy rounds, Bullet, brass, NO powder, NO primer. Paint them so you can tell they are dummys.

Practice loading and dry firing. The more you practice the smoother it will be.

osallent
March 6, 2011, 03:32 AM
Macsters, I just bought a Mosin Nagant online, so am in the same boat you are, wondering whether I did good.

Am not going to hunt with the Mosin Nagant, just shoot at the local range at 100 yards. Therefore, it doesn't need to be the most accurate rifle in the world. We'll see!!! The one rifle that truly surprised me with accuracy was my Yugoslavian SKS. I've been able to shoot wild boar with it at 100-120 yards with no problem whatsoever. I don't know if I got lucky or whether they are all that accurate. ;)

FrankenMauser
March 6, 2011, 04:43 AM
3. You are looking for lands with sharp corners, no pitting in the grooves and no pitting in the chamber. It takes practice to learn how to change the focus of your eye as your gaze slowly moves from chamber to throat and along the bore.
4. Flip the rifle around and look down the bore from the muzzle end. Make sure the muzzle isn't nicked or damaged and the lands have not been worn by years of steel cleaning rod use.

In general, good condition of the lands indicates a rifle that was cared for. However... two of my mil-surps have had bores that looked like the surface of the moon, and had rounded lands. They are more accurate than any similar rifle they have been compared to. ;)

I find it more important to verify good head space, a good chamber, a good crown, a consistent bore, and a solid action; rather than wanting a bore that looks near-new.

captianpattson
March 8, 2011, 03:13 PM
I bought my 91/30 off a rack, they were all pretty similar, all packed in cosmoline and not a scratch on them, I'm pretty sure it was unissued. I took it out to the range and put 50+ rounds through it. The bolt was a little stiff when extracting the spent round but I think it was just a burr in the chamber which I have since removed. It is fun as heck to shoot, even my 4'11'' 90lb wife loved shooting it because she could handle the recoil. After shooting it my dad went to Big5 and bought one too, his was unissued too. Next time I go out I'm going to try table resting it and test its accuracy along with my gunsmithing sucess. I highly recommend them.

There is a fellow on youtube who shoots a scoped mosin at a 13'' steel plate from 1000 yards. Convinced me...

snipecatcher
March 8, 2011, 04:05 PM
I bought 3 of them from AIM Surplus. 2 91/30's and an M44. One of the 91/30's shot as expected, 2-4" at 100 yards, the other two rifles wouldn't stay on paper at 50 yards. I no longer own any of them. If I was going to buy another MN, it would be a Finn. The chances of getting a decent shooter are supposedly better.
-Dan

FrankenMauser
March 8, 2011, 04:10 PM
If I was going to buy another MN, it would be a Finn. The chances of getting a decent shooter are supposedly better.

There is also a good chance of getting a .308" bore... which greatly improves the rifle's reloading potential.

Kreyzhorse
March 8, 2011, 04:17 PM
Look it over before you buy it and I think you'll do okay. However, if you get a bad one, or a good one for that matter, and you aren't happy with it, I wouldn't put any cash into it to improve the accuracy.

macsters
March 8, 2011, 08:27 PM
in shop, how does one verify headspace?

and i saw that same video, i think he hit the target 3/5 or 4/5 times. but his was heavily modified.

Yung.gunr
March 8, 2011, 11:16 PM
I was heading to the local smith so I took my newly purchased MN with me to have him check the headspace. He was telling me you have to have a gauge to do that. He said his was on order and I would do just as well to strap it down on a tire and shoot a couple rounds from a distance with a string to make sure it was safe. He was also telling me 99.9% of the time they are fine, but you wouldn't want to be that 0.1%. Just what he was telling me........

raftman
March 8, 2011, 11:31 PM
To me, 'Mosin' and 'accuracy' really don't go together. It is what it is, a hastily put together, crude rifle for the conscripts.

(sigh) Someone always has to peddle that line.

Almost every rifle in almost every country made in those days was for conscripts.

velocette
March 9, 2011, 09:08 AM
My MN that I bought through Cabellas for $89.95 was arsenal refurbished and not re-issued. It was in really nice condition. The only problem I had was that the barrel had probably never been thoroughly cleaned of powder and copper fouling.
Four days of cleaning with copper solvents, brushes, patches etc to get it to the point that a clean patch would come out just barely darkened. Rifling is clean and sharp and no pitting is visible in the bore.
I've read that a lot of the MNs have barrels like I had. YMMV.

Roger