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ckpj99
February 27, 2011, 09:15 PM
Consider this a combination "what would you do?" and "workout routine."

So let's say you get to go to the range once a week for 30 mins. That's it. No more, no less.

AND you only get 50 rounds.

You're not preparing for some crazy competition, you're just want to master your gun for SD and fun.

This isn't really that strange, it's pretty much going to be my upcoming situation.

If you really want to make it more fun! I'll be using a six shot revolver.

So what's a good routine or set of routines to run through.

Jake Balam
February 27, 2011, 09:37 PM
That's exactly what I do, I run 5 rds per mag, practice speed reload, malfunction clear, I have a three piece metal Target and do a little accuracy shooting. Then rapid fire and point shooting at a man size Target.

Since there are no classes nearby I ordered a video called dynamic handgun and use that as a training tool

sirsloop
February 27, 2011, 09:59 PM
-5rds per mag
-practice clean drawing, manipulating the safety, and getting one shot center mass.
-Load up a snap cap in with the 5rds mags and practice trigger control with no flinching. The snap caps will show you what you are doing to the gun when you fire.
-Practice strong hand only
-Practice weak hand only

For a revolver I would load up 5 rds and use the empty pipe as a "snap cap". Practice double action, especially weak handed.

There are things you can do at home for free, such as more practice drawing, getting a sight picture quickly, and reloading magazines. Obviously you gotta be sure to clear (and double check) all firearms and magazines :p If you find shooting weak handed hard, do some hand strengthening exercises. My hand strength training comes in the form of a 6 string guitar :p

Hook686
February 28, 2011, 01:36 AM
I practice with a revolver at ten yards. I vary the revolver I use from a S&W J FRame to a S&W L Frame to a S&W N frame. Typically I start at a low ready. My targets are printed off http://www.mytargets.com/ (I print the Five Bullseye targets). I will shot one predecided target on the sheet, then return to low ready. I then repeat the practice with a different target.

After I shoot all five, I reload and repeat firing two shoots at two different targets. I return to the low ready and repeat until cylinder empty. I reload and repeat shooting at two of the targets(J Frame only gets to shoot at the five targets ... L and N Frames get a 2nd shot at the center target).

I then reload and shoot three of the targets. Go to low ready and repeat (J Frame only get five shots - L & N Frames get two to the center target). I repeat this two more times.

I have fired 30 rounds with a J Frame and 36 rounds with a L, and N FRame revolver. I repeat the practice with my weak hand. This results in more than your limit of 50 rounds in 30 minutes, but then you get to limit yourself anyway you wish. I do not place that particular limit on myself. Typically I spend an hour at the range and usually shoot two different revolvers each trip.

Good luck with your practice.

The Great Mahoo
February 28, 2011, 03:20 PM
I usually find some ways to do some "work out" shooting when I get to the range, limiting my time and ammo count just as you mention. I do it largely because I'd rather go shoot more frequently with a box of ammo, than wait till I have a case and hammer away all day.

My routine is much the same as those already posted here. I tend to stick with my carry gun/s, which are 5, 6 ,6+1 or 7+1 capacity. I'll load anywhere from 2-max rounds, repending on what I am using, then mix up the mags if its an auto loader. I work on draw and fire, reloading w/ and w/o retention, and multi-target zones.

I generally hang a target w/ 5 small bullseyes, which give me small target-shift oppertunities. Not as much of a jump as using multiple full-sized targets, but enough to practice reacquisition and hitting decent groups. If I'm at my outdoor range, and no one else is there, I'll go ahead and hang a bunch of targets all over the place to save me from replacing them as I go. Range is typically a set distance for a session, but mix it up each time I go back.

To save range time/ammo, I do the bulk of my reload/draw practice at home w/ dummy rounds. Different days at the range I'll focus on strong, weak, 2 handed shooting methods. I guess I pick a skill set to work on each day, rather than running a mag through each way all in one trip.


Then there are times I will just go and plink or do some target practicing now and again; I don't strictly do the combat training type stuff.

Ryder
February 28, 2011, 10:57 PM
I'll shoot some close, some far. Some fast, some slow. Some single shots from the holster. Some fast double action runs up close.

Usually start out slow and distant speeding up and moving closer I "get in the groove". I don't shoot the whole box if I need a loaded gun for the ride home though.

raimius
February 28, 2011, 11:38 PM
CSAT pistol standards are, IMO, one of the better uses of 25 rounds.
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm
After that, run remedials on your weakest events.

Entry Team
March 1, 2011, 01:55 AM
Great thread! There is some good training advice here. With the high cost of ammunition, every training round counts!

derekb
March 1, 2011, 02:38 AM
I don't shoot the whole box if I need a loaded gun for the ride home though.

You're not shooting your carry ammo, or carrying your range ammo, are you?

Ryder
March 1, 2011, 03:17 AM
You're not shooting your carry ammo, or carrying your range ammo, are you?

It has been known to happen.

Skans
March 1, 2011, 08:57 AM
With 50 rounds of ammo, I'd probably practice mostly one thing - like one handed shooting. That's because I've been concentrating on one handed shooting lately.

Slopemeno
March 1, 2011, 12:50 PM
Back when I started shooting in an Action Shooting league a practice partner and I came up with a dry-fire/practice scheme that worked OK. It was:

1) Clear everything- guns, magazines, put ammo in another room
2) 1911, hammer down in the leather
3) Draw and "press" twice in a safe direction
4) mag change
5) press twice again

Our thought was it incorporated most skills we needed work on: Draw, front sight focus, mag change, and back to the front sight. Since you could only dry fire once in series we elected to just leave the hammer down.

At one point we both were taping 3" x 5" cards to the wall in the same progression as our stages.

KChen986
March 1, 2011, 02:58 PM
Torture Dot Drill:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_nfCNisrrsNc/TW1PihXJPnI/AAAAAAAAAs8/Ts9hCl4Epyw/s512/PG-Dot-Torture-2009-300dpi.jpg

50 rounds, strong, weak, from draw, engaging 2 targets etc. It is a good drill. Done around 3-5 yards.

The Great Mahoo
March 1, 2011, 07:38 PM
You're not shooting your carry ammo, or carrying your range ammo, are you?

With my .45's, I don't worry so much about carrying range-ammo. At least I know it works well in the guns, and still makes an awfully big hole that works in a pinch.

Skans
March 2, 2011, 08:24 AM
I might have to try that dot torture thing. Looks like a good drill.

Buzzcook
March 2, 2011, 01:21 PM
I shoot 15yd Weaver to warm up. Usually 12 rounds depending on what I'm shooting.
If my eyes are working I move to 25yds and repeat. Then I shoot strong hand and then a few rounds weak hand.

I finish with Weaver.

If my eyes aren't working I stay at 15yds and Weaver and I shoot really slow.

oldkim
March 3, 2011, 12:04 AM
Meaning, how good are you to begin with?

50 rounds isn't anything... for training for a new shooter. That's like saying to someone that is thinking of doing a marathon to run 1 mile.

Your not even warming up?

Do you realize that for a new shooter it's all about trigger time... quality and quantity.

As a benchmark: pro's shoot on average of 20,000 - 60,000 rounds a year. I'm not saying your a pro. But shooting 50 rounds ain't nothing....

I would say if you are new. Save your money. Set aside time and money... invest in a good instructor and lots of ammo. The instructor will get you off on the right foot to practice those lessons... otherwise... You are literally shooting in the dark, trying to figure out "how to shoot" on your own. You'll waste money, ammo and time and most likely develop "bad habits" while you are at it.

So, step back and put the money where you need to... $50-$150 for a good instructor with about $200-$500 in ammo (a case or two). The reason I say get a lot of ammo upfront is so you don't worry about the cost... piece by piece (box by box). Do make sure the ammo works for your gun.

As for practicing drills - what is your intended purpose? Marksmanship? Speed? Self Defense? Each has it's own drills...


Sidenote: visit my website and check out what we do in the so called "liberal" state of Washington, near Seattle.
www.shootonthemove.org (http://www.shootonthemove.org)

The Great Mahoo
March 3, 2011, 02:13 PM
KChen986, that's an interesting drill. Do you have a link to a full-size copy one can print out and try?

Thanks.

fourrobert13
March 3, 2011, 02:18 PM
I do some of these twice a month, www.handgunlaw.us/documents/HandgunDrills.pdf, but I also still go to formal training twice a year. I feel doing these drills is good practice, but without formal training there is no way to tell if you are developing bad habits/tactics. I understand that money is tight and the cost of ammo is going up, but you shouldn't limit yourself to just practicing what you see on a video, book, or internet. A few years ago I decided to start a training budget which includes ammo and formal training classes, and my practice in my free time. I stick with handgun and shotgun training as these are what I like to shoot the most any way. I'm also an LEO firearms instructor and like to stay profficent and like to be able to do what I teach my fellow officers. I started reloading my ammo 12 years ago and that has helped me out with ammo cost. In my earlier link, I run my guys through some of those drill and I would not deter anyone from practicing those drills, but don't limit yourself to just doing this type of parctice/training. Look around in your area and see if there are any training facilities in your area. You might be surprised to find out that it's not as expensive as you think. If you can afford to shoot 50 rounds per week, then you should be able to afford a formal training class and the ammo to shoot at it. Just some thoughts on this subject.

Capt Charlie
March 3, 2011, 05:04 PM
The dot torture drill is really interesting, and one I'd not heard of before. I Googled it trying to find a printable version with clear instructions. No joy :(.

I did, however, find this video (http://www.firearmnetwork.com/bringtheheat/video/28619) of it in action.

Do you have a link to a full-size copy one can print out and try?

Ditto, especially a file in .pdf format or something similar that can be saved and printed out in multiple copies.

KChen986
March 3, 2011, 05:11 PM
Gentlemen,

I uploaded this on to one of my hosts and it's about as large as I can get it here....

Hope this is good enough. If not, I'll dig around to see if I can't upload as PDF

http://x0d.xanga.com/7a0f664a16130275380221/w219479137.jpg

KChen986
March 3, 2011, 05:16 PM
PDF from www.personaldefensetraining.com

http://www.personaldefensetraining.com/images/dottorture.pdf

Capt Charlie
March 3, 2011, 05:52 PM
Thanks very much KChen! :) :cool:

fourrobert13
March 3, 2011, 06:30 PM
There are more drills here including the directions on how to perform the dot torture drill. You can even download the targets from their site.

http://pistol-training.com/

ckpj99
March 3, 2011, 11:45 PM
"Meaning, how good are you to begin with?

50 rounds isn't anything... for training for a new shooter. That's like saying to someone that is thinking of doing a marathon to run 1 mile.

Your not even warming up?

Do you realize that for a new shooter it's all about trigger time... quality and quantity."

For me personally (the OP), I've been shooting since I was 4 years old. I'm comfortable with safely handling just about any firearm. I'm not looking to establish a foundation, I think I've got that. And I'm not really looking to spend a lot.

I'm by no means an expert marksmen, but I've shot with people I consider pros (CCW instructors and private security folks) many time, and I while I don't stun them with my crazy skills, I do keep up.

I'd rather shoot once a week than once every two months, and with my budget and time constraints, that means I get a box a week or so.

I do agree that for someone new to shooting, establishing a good foundation is really important.

In terms of training goals, I'm aiming to master a specific weapon. I want to be able to bullseye every shot at 50 feet and shoot 2 inch groups rapid fire at 7 yards. I want it all. LOL

ckpj99
March 3, 2011, 11:53 PM
These are some great drills. Dot torture looks like torture. I found a printable version of it doing a google image search. It is printed and in the range bag.

Quick question: Why are so many people spending so much time shooting one-handed and, especially, weak-handed?

I'm not trying to argue against the practice, I'm really curious. I just can't imagine too many scenarios where that would be necessary.

Is it because in a quick draw situation you might not have time to get both hands on the gun? Do you practice weak-hand just in case you get shot in the strong-arm?

I don't know about you, but I'm not sure I'm He-Man enough to take a hit like that keep going.

dawg23
March 5, 2011, 07:59 PM
Quick question: Why are so many people spending so much time shooting one-handed and, especially, weak-handed?

I'm not trying to argue against the practice, I'm really curious. I just can't imagine too many scenarios where that would be necessary.



One previous reply suggested that you spend some of that ammo budget on training. His suggestion is a good one -- for you or for anyone.

A lot of people shrug this off, saying, "I've been shooting all my life." In most cases this is a poor rationalization, because far too many of them have been shooting the wrong (inefficient) way, probably based on what they see in the movies or on TV.

There are excellent classes available to almost anyone. I'm not referring to a concealed handgun class, or to a two hour lesson, but rather to a two day or three day "immersion level" defensive handgun class. In virtually every case, assuming you avail yourself of the training offered by one of the top-tier instructors, you will understand how little you knew prior to the class -- and how much you still have to learn.

A poor analogy is the situation when someone gets his first pair of glasses, and suddenly realizes how poorly he was able to see before getting the corrective lenses.

After taking such a class, you won't ask why you should learn to shoot one-handed, or why you need to be able to manipulate a flashlight while you shoot, or why you need to be able to shoot while moving, or why you need to be able to effectively engage multiple moving targets.

One more comment. In your OP you referred to wanting to "master your gun for SD and for fun." I would suggest leaving the "fun" part out of it if you are limited to 50 rounds per week. You have a massive chore in front of you, under the conditions you have described, just dealing with the "mastering for SD" part.

Practice is essentially simply a repetition of whatever techniques you are using. Keep in mind that if your technique is poor, or inefficient or ineffective, you are reinforcing bad habits.

MP9
March 5, 2011, 08:57 PM
a box per week?.. = 10$ or ~ 40 per month

range hour? 10$ or so 40 per mont

total = 80$ plus targets

if you want to get some decent SD training you need to pay good some training.

or what I would suggest is... join any IDPA matches...maybe it is not a "formal" training but you can learn many stuff there from people who already know and have experience...

here in FL, miami I pay 20$(25 if not member) per match and spend less than 2 box.. 3 stages and 30 rounds per stage... = 120rounds but usually we spend 80 -90...

I usually spend at IDPA 80$ per month(20 each match and 4 ammo box)

the matches are twice a month and it would be A WAYY better than range.

in idpa you can:

shoot while moving
shoot multiple targets.
fast shooting
draw from holster
shooting from cover
emergency or tactical/ fast reload

usually you can not do this things at any range....

you can go to any other game. but I talk about idpa because it is what I now..

uspsa is good too but it is like go a shooting like crazy, usually no cover, just shoot as fast and accurate as you can...


Good luck

raimius
March 6, 2011, 08:54 PM
IDPA is good for testing your speed and accuracy, but it is not a substitute for personal practice.

Good practice requires repetition.

MP9
March 6, 2011, 09:23 PM
IDPA is good for testing your speed and accuracy, but it is not a substitute for personal practice.

Good practice requires repetition

yeah. But it is hard to find a place where you can practice the more real possible... at range is all static... at least IDPA you can shoot while moving, fast reload...

maybe if you are a LEO or from the army/navy.. you can get that training but for people not leo/army it is hard to find.

and of course, any SD at home is different from idpa or any other game...

and suppose anyone can have a training like "real situation".. where can you practice that again and again? with fire of course...


actually, here in a local range indoor, they did a idpa match pretty good, with bed, doors, you had to get up, move and go to another room.. I couldnt go, but I would like to any other similar.

and it is hard to afford paying 300/400+ $ for a course every two months, "to practice"...

Slopemeno
March 6, 2011, 09:58 PM
Dollar to dollar, shot to shot, match shooting (IDPA/USPSA) is probably a better skill builder than just about anything. The very fact that the results matter, that how you do gets posted, that you make it into "B Class' this year makes a difference.

Seaman
March 7, 2011, 10:28 AM
Generally shoot about 75 rounds minimum, rarely more than 150. Practice with revolvers and semi-autos, with either hand. 25 acp, 32 acp, 32 cal, Tokarev, 380, Makarov, 9mm, 357, 44 mag, 45 acp.

Always shoot multiple silhouette targets, up to 5 at a time. Distance from 3 yards to 50 yards, most shooting done at 3, 7 and 10 yards. All shooting is rapid fire.

Practice quick draw and rescue shooting the most. Also shoot balloons tied on 3 foot string lengths so that wind makes moving targets.

Do not practice clearing jams, if a gun ever jams it gets retired, no point in carrying a dangerous liability.

KChen986
March 7, 2011, 02:16 PM
Do not practice Jams

I strongly disagree. Even the vaunted Glock does and will jam. Be prepared to tap rack and get back on target. All weapons are mechanical, which can and may fail.

Seaman
March 7, 2011, 04:14 PM
I respect your disagreement with my criterion for a reliable defensive handgun, your assessment is supported by many tactical experts.

Tho I have shot the 'vaunted Glock' in different flavors I do not own or carry one.

"All weapons are mechanical, which can and may fail. " [KChen986]

Quite.

Which is why I would draw my next carry, a revolver, and should that fail, my boot gun, and if that fail, I can only opine that it was my time, and hopefully my children will not exaggerate my demise with too great a gusto.