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View Full Version : A few garand/CMP questions


b money
February 25, 2011, 12:10 AM
I'd like to get a M1 Garand and I think the best place to get one is from the CMP so here are a few questions I have: first what grade and make should I look at getting(I plan on shooting this gun just like it was ment to be) I would obviously like the most accurate one I could get, and I don't really care if the parts are mixed or not, just as long as it can shoot a decent group. The max I want to spend is about $800 I'd be happier with 5-600 though. Second my father has been looking for a 30-06 to go deer hunting with and I was going to suggest a garand,a cheaper one though as I don't want to see a "mint" piece of history droped or something. Plus he would want a scope on what ever gun he may get, and although I'm not sure I(or him for that matter) want to drill into a M1 garand, I think it would be one hell of a hunting rifle. Whats your thoughts on something like that? If yes what grade would you recomend for it? Third what all do I have to do do buy a gun from the CMP? I am a US citizen, no crimes etc etc but as far as club/competition stuff? I belong to a club that is on their list but that's all I know. Lastly would you recomend a drive from Illinois to the north store to pick out the rifle(s) or just send in?

Sorry for all the questions, just really getting exited about possibly owning a ligament piece of US history that you can shoot. Thanks for reading

kraigwy
February 25, 2011, 12:18 AM
I believe what you want is a Service Grade. If you father wants to use a scope he should choose another type rifle. Because of it being clip fed, its difficult to mount a scope and have the rifle function. Unless you are going to the M1C/D version. The scope is offset but to get that configuration you are talking money.

Go to the CMP website and check the requirements. Basically you have to be a citizen, member of a CMP Affiliated club, and show some knowledge of firearms, that being firing a match, proof of military or LE service, Hunter Safety (where shooting was involved) etc etc.

Best advice, go to the CMP web site, check out the grades, and eligibility requirements.

http://www.thecmp.org/

Sport45
February 25, 2011, 12:25 AM
first what grade and make should I look at getting(I plan on shooting this gun just like it was ment to be) I would obviously like the most accurate one I could get, and I don't really care if the parts are mixed or not, just as long as it can shoot a decent group. The max I want to spend is about $800 I'd be happier with 5-600 though.

I suggest the Service Grade HRA for $595. Not because it's any better than the Springfield, just different. Expect the wood to need some cleaning and TLC to make pretty. If you don't want to do the woodwork, the only choice is the Service Grade Special which will set you back $895.

Accuracy will probably be +/- 2 MOA.

Second my father has been looking for a 30-06 to go deer hunting with and I was going to suggest a garand,a cheaper one though as I don't want to see a "mint" piece of history droped or something. Plus he would want a scope on what ever gun he may get, and although I'm not sure I(or him for that matter) want to drill into a M1 garand, I think it would be one hell of a hunting rifle. Whats your thoughts on something like that?

Same rifle, Service Grade M1. Another poster here, Zippy13, put me on to a maker of scope mounts that replace the rear sights on military rifles without having to drill or alter the wood. You can check them out if you wish to scope a M1 without damaging it. Look under the Ex-Military tab. http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html

Third what all do I have to do do buy a gun from the CMP? I am a US citizen, no crimes etc etc but as far as club/competition stuff? I belong to a club that is on their list but that's all I know.

From ODCMP.org, their eligibility requirements (http://www.thecmp.org/eligibility.htm):

Proof of U.S. Citizenship:
You must provide a copy of a U.S. birth certificate, passport, proof of naturalization, or any official government document that shows birth in the U.S. or states citizenship as U.S.

Proof of Age:
You must provide proof of age. Usually proof of citizenship also provides proof of age. In those cases where it may not, a driver’s license is sufficient.

Membership in CMP Affiliated Organization:
You must provide a copy of your current membership card or other proof of membership. This requirement cannot be waived. The CMP currently has over 2,000 affiliated organizations located in many parts of the country.

Membership in many of these organizations costs $25.00 or less and can be accomplished online. A listing of affiliated organizations can be found by clicking on our Club Search web page at http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/clubSearch.cgi. If you have any difficulty in locating a club, please contact the CMP at 256-835-8455 or by emailing CMP Customer Service. We will find one for you. In addition to shooting clubs, the CMP also has several special affiliates. Membership in these organizations satisfies our requirement for purchase. These special affiliates include: Congressionally chartered veterans' organizations such as the VFW, AL, DAV, MCL, etc. U.S. Military services (active or reserves), National Guard, to include retirees. Professional 501(c)3 law enforcement organizations and associations such as the FOP, NAPO, NSA, etc.

Note: Club membership IS required for purchase of rifles, parts, and ammunition.

Club membership is NOT required for instructional publications or videos or CMP memorabilia.

Marksmanship or other Firearms Related Activity:
You must provide proof of participation in a marksmanship related activity or otherwise show familiarity with the safe handling of firearms and range procedures. Your marksmanship related activity does not have to be with highpower rifles; it can be with smallbore rifles, pistols, air guns or shotguns. Proof of marksmanship participation can be provided by documenting any of the following:

- Current or past military service.
- Current or past law enforcement service
- Participation in a rifle, pistol, air gun or shotgun competition (provide copy of results bulletin).
- Completion of a marksmanship clinic that included live fire training (provide a copy of the certificate of completion or a statement from the instructor).
- Distinguished, Instructor, or Coach status.
- Concealed Carry License.
- Firearms Owner Identification Cards that included live fire training.
- FFL or C&R license.
- Completion of a Hunter Safety Course that included live fire training.
- Certification from range or club official or law enforcement officer witnessing shooting activity. A form for use in completing and certifying your range firing can be downloaded from the CMP web site at http://www.odcmp.com/forms/marksmanship.pdf

No proof of marksmanship required if over age 60. proof of club membership and citizenship required for all ages.
NOTE: Proof of marksmanship activity is not required for purchase of ammunition, parts, publications or memorabilia.

Be Legally Eligible to Purchase a Firearm:
The information you supply on your application will be submitted by the CMP to the FBI National Instant Criminal Check System (NICS) to verify you are not prohibited by Federal, State or Local law from acquiring or possessing a rifle. Your signature on the Purchaser Certification portion of the purchase application authorizes the CMP to initiate the NICS check and authorizes the FBI to inform CMP of the result. IMPORTANT: If your State or locality requires you to first obtain a license, permit, or Firearms Owner ID card in order to possess or receive a rifle, you must enclose a photocopy of your license, permit, or card with the application for purchase.

b money
February 25, 2011, 02:27 AM
Thanks for the advice, those scope mounts from S&K have me interested, I wonder how it would function with the 8rnd clips? Also Ive heard that winchester's are more for collect ability then anything else is this correct?if so I really don't see spending the extra cash on a name because I want a gun that shoots not a name. With that being said I've heard that certain date barrels(LMA or LAM??) are better than others, any input on that? Also something about high serial # SA's(I think) are better, again any input? If so what makes them better? Also when they talk about barrel muzzle/throat erosion as in better or worse than 5; what's good whats bad? If I take a drive to the CMP store is there any special way to tell a tack driver from a wrecking ball? Is there any special things to look out for when buying a garand?

dwwhite
February 25, 2011, 11:53 AM
I'm going to second the recommendations for a CMP service grade. My understanding is that those being sold now are among the best to come out of the CMP in a long time, if ever.

Also, if you're just looking for a good shooter, I'd suggest ordering a HRA service grade. I recently ordered a Springfield, and got lucky with a mostly original, post war specimen, with the original, barely fired barrel. An HRA will guarantee post war production, whereas the Winchesters and SA's may be WWII era and could have seen some heavy use. A post war gun means you're likely to get a rifle that has been used less.

On the other hand, if you want one that may have seen action in Europe or the Pacific, SA or Winchester is the way to go. Because of the grading process it's kind of a moot point. A service grade from the CMP is virtually guaranteed to be a great rifle.


As for the scope mount, if you insist, you might check out some of the scout mounts available that replace the rear handguard. These will lower the scope in relation to the SK mount, and are guaranteed to not interfere with loading or ejection. Just google "garand scout mount." However, for a .30-06 hunting rifle, the M1 would not necessarily be my first choice.


Edited to add:
FWIW, I would just send off for the rifle, rather than make the trip to the store. Based on my experience with them, you'll get a good rifle, or they'll make it right. However, that's easy for me to say, since I'm nowhere near a store. If I lived within driving distance, I'd likely be making the trip on a monthly basis. :D

overland
February 25, 2011, 12:12 PM
Definitely service grade. Great rifles. Get plenty of CMP ammo as its also hard to beat at their price. Plus you get the en blocs, and sometimes bandoleers, and ammo cans included. If the stock is too beat up or greasy for you, it can easily be restocked for around $100 or so with afresh new boyds.

deadeye1122
February 25, 2011, 01:29 PM
I just mailed of my paperwork for my first Garand. I ordered a HRA service grade thinking the same as dwwhite, later production date, hopefully less wear and tear. I also included the customery note requesting the best shooer and also the best looking. Maybe the next one will be a SA for some history. We will see what come in a month or so. deadeye.

Tim R
February 25, 2011, 03:36 PM
In My sticky note I would have just said you wanted a shooter for John C. Garand matches. Who cares what it looks like if it shoots. :p

The last H&R S/G I saw less than a month ago was in V/G condition. It was almost as good as my correct grade.

deadeye1122
February 25, 2011, 07:10 PM
Tim R a good shooter is the first priority but I would not like to open the gun case and see something that is beat to heck. Just trying to compromise. Hopefully the H&R you saw is the normal coming from CMP. Of all the post I've read on all forms maybe ONE negative comment on CMP. Will seem what comes. deadeye

b money
February 26, 2011, 01:56 AM
Wow, thanks for all the info, looks like I'll be ordering a service grade sometime this summer, haven't decided if I want a SA or H&R yet. What is a John C garand match? I gather that you compete with grands but if I order one I'd like to put a note saying that I want a great shooter and if if they would pick a "better" one because it might be used in matches, I might just want to try it out.

Also if I do take a drive out to the north store is there any way to tell if a certain rifle has NM parts? Like sights triggers etc

Thanks everyone!

blume357
February 26, 2011, 07:34 AM
I think your father should get an '03 Springfield.... that along with your M1 would make a great pair.

I know hunters don't like to talk about this... but unless you are out somewhere in the great open plains or mountains.... there is no reason for a scope on either of the rifles... anything within 300 yards should be easy pickins with either rifle and iron sights.

kraigwy
February 26, 2011, 10:24 AM
What is a John C Garand match?

Pretty much just what it says. A match using "as issued" M1 Garands. There are "2" courses of fire: CMP Rule 9.2.1

Course A:

Sighting; Slow fire, any position. 5 rounds

First stage: 200 yards slow fire prone position 10 rounds (total time for the sighter's and prone position is 15 minutes.

Second stage: 200 yards Rapid fire. Standing to prone, 10 rounds 80 Secs.

Third stage: 200 yards Slow fire, Standing, 10 rounds in 10 minutes.


Course B: Same as Course A except between the 2nd & 3rd stage the Sitting or knelling stage is added. Going from standing to setting/knelling. 10 rounds in 70 Seconds.

The NRA 200 yard target (SR) is used. This course can fired at 100 yards using the SR-1 target (the 100 yard reduced version of the SR target.

I would highly recommend anyone new to the Garand, (or other vintage military rifle shooting) attend the CMP GSM Vintage Rifle Clinics put on by CMP GSM Master Instructors. The clinics and matches are listed on the CMP website.

May have to wait until spring before they really start to show up, some are a little late posing the dates, my self included. I know I haven't sent in my list of clinics yet. I hope to get it to CMP the first couple weeks of March.

blad51
February 26, 2011, 12:21 PM
I have a Service Grade H&R. It is a great rifle and its in great condition. It is a Greek return and it wasn't ever shot much over the years. There was barely any muzzle erosion at all.

When I got it I quickly checked all of the heat lot numbers and other numbers. I discovered that my rifle was made in '55 and was essentially a Correct grade rifle. The only part that wasn't correct is my gas plug. It is an International Harvestor gas plug.

The stock was really coated in Cosmoline. It was like some one opened a can of soda and sprayed it on the side of the comb of the stock. (I don't know how I did it.) But I got my wife to let me place the stock in the oven and sweat the Cosmo out. I put it on the lowest setting and rubbed it down with cheese cloth every 15 minutes or so. I finished with boiled linseed oil. It still sweats a little in the sun on a hot day.

I really enjoy the process of cleaning a historic rifle. My M1 had a lot of Cosmo in the guts of the rifle. Though I understand CMP has a cleaning machine that they are sending the rifles through. (Some Greek Return rifles were packed in so much Cosmo it was hard to tell they were rifles.) So maybe you will get a rifle with less Cosmo than mine. The Italian return M1 Carbine and US Navy M44 barely had any Cosmo.

Go to the store only if you want to go. They will lend you a throat and muzzle erosion guage for you to use to pick out a rifle. Though, you will do fine through the mail. CMP customer service is the best. They love the rifles and it seems like the understand that they are the caretakers of history.

Don't drill an M1 for a scope. You'll only regret it later. Buy another rifle for your Dad. There is a post on the CMP Forum where they show photos of sportized military rifles. It is really ugly.

Eric

Tim R
February 26, 2011, 09:10 PM
Tim R a good shooter is the first priority but I would not like to open the gun case and see something that is beat to heck. Just trying to compromise. Hopefully the H&R you saw is the normal coming from CMP. Of all the post I've read on all forms maybe ONE negative comment on CMP. Will seem what comes. deadeye

You can always replace the wood. Getting a good shooter is a little more difficult. I understand some of the S/G Springfields are coming out with new CMP stocks. My S/G Winchester had one of these stocks. They are OK. I put this stock on a Springer S/G because I had a Winchester stock that went on the Winchester.