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Kimio
February 24, 2011, 12:59 AM
I'm still shopping around and looking at my options for a good entry level AR15.

So far the list I have compiled consists of the following

Colt 6920: $1298.99

LMT Standard Defender M4 Rifle (This is what the shop called it) : $1249.95

DPMS AP4 16" M4 Carbine: $949.99

Bushmaster M4A3 AR-15 Carbine: $1069.95

BCM® M4 Carbine Mod 1: $1135.00

S&W M&P15 M4A3 Carbine: $1099.95

round each up by about 10% of their total and that's the tax.

I apologize if I sound like a broken record, and I KNOW many of these threads have been made, but for all of you DPMS owners, what can you say about the quality of the rifle, have any of you sold one of your rifles, and how did they hold their value.

I ask this same question to any BCM, Bushmaster's and LMT AR15 owners.

I want to make sure I'm investing into a weapon that I'll enjoy, but the problem is the budget I'm running on. Give or take $1,000 to $1,300, so if I can get a quality rifle without selling my soul to satan, I'd really rather do so. Sometimes buying a name brand doesn't really mean it's better, it's the name you're paying for, and while I do not doubt Colt makes good rifles, I don't want to be over paying for something that I can get from a less prestigious brand that is of the same or similar quality.

I will be using this rifle strictly for marksmanship practice at the range, slaying paper. No hunting or anything of the like, and I will eventually be adding optics and perhaps fore grips to them.

I know many of you have given me MANY good answers, but hearing them from the owners of said fire arms really help.

As a side note, I've also looked into S&W M&P15 M4A3 carbines, and while I know S&W makes good firearms, how do they stack up against the other brands listed.

Thank you for reading this, and again please bare with me, as I'm sure many of you are tired of answering these questions.

mc223
February 24, 2011, 02:19 AM
S&W M&P15 M4A3 can be had for around half of the full suggested retail.

DPMS AP4 16" M4 Carbine: $949.99 In MY Opinion is not worth 1/4th of this price.
Bushmaster M4A3 AR-15 Carbine: $1069.95 Same as DPMS since ownership went to a holding company. Remington R-15 is built by DPMS same holding company.

Colt 6920: $1298.99
LMT Standard Defender M4 Rifle (This is what the shop called it) : $1249.95
BCM® M4 Carbine Mod 1: $1135.00
You may be able to get a little better pricing on these but you will be investing in Top Tier products.

For General Paper punching there are numerous brands and kits that would be OK
CMMG is in general OK stuff (last time I looked the Bargain Bin was sold out)
DelTon has some good deals on kits. And good deals on uppers.

And there are many more OK stuff builders out there at around half of your budget.

I got my S&W M&P 15 OR for $650 At My LGS.

ma96782
February 24, 2011, 02:31 AM
IMHO...........if it's goona be a first and only.......buy the COLT.

WHY?

In my mind when I think of COLT throughout history………..

The Civil War - COLT 1851 and 1860 cap and ball revolver comes to mind.
Indian Wars - COLT SAA
WW1 - COLT M1911
WW2 - COLT M1911A1
Korean War - COLT M1911A1
Viet Nam - COLT M16A1 (AR15 SP-1)
Desert Storm - COLT M16A2 (AR15-A2)
Iraq/Afghanistan - COLT M4

So, given the history……….well, I’ll buy a genuine COLT.

Besides, I was around during the AWB of 1994. The COLT AR always sold at a premium compared to the “other brands.”

But..........it's up to you.

Aloha, Mark

PS.........COLT goes through many inspections that some of the other brands don't do. Read more about it at AR15.com. Yes, they have the same buyer's soul searching there too. And, opinions vary.

Blackops_2
February 24, 2011, 03:08 AM
Be sure to check out spikes tactical i would put them up there with BCM, DD, and Colt. Also which gas system are you wanting? Carbine or Mid-length? I would opt for mid-length, softer recoil impulse, not as much wear on the system, more quad rail, and just overall better IMO.

BCM 16" mid upper w/ BCG & charging handle- 534$
Spikes tactical fully assembled lower- 275$
Magpul Rear MBUIS- 55$
Mid length handguards- 20$
Total: 884$ minus shipping.

There you have an extremely well built, reliable, quality AR 15 for under 1000$ ready to shoot. They are completely mil spec just as colt and go a step further with a lifetime warranty..

Reference sites:
http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers
http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

Bravo company links to reviews:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Bravo-Company-Media-s/139.htm

P.S. let me know if you find a bad review i've searched and have yet to discover one..;)

PIGMAN
February 24, 2011, 04:51 AM
I have a DPMS 308. DPMS stands for DEFENCE PROCUREMENT MANUFACTURING SUPPLIER. I wonder if these things are MILLSPEC????

The police also like DPMS rifles,read the following link.

http://policelink.monster.com/products/products/533-dpms-panther-carbine-model-a-15

In my opinion the difference between the various makers of these AR rifles is like compairing a Savage or Howa to a Remington or a Winchester. Other than price difference does the Remington or Winchester really function better than the less expensive Savage or the Howa?And what if the more expensive rifles do shoot better then is the difference between the rifles really worth the extra bucks?

The manufacture of firearms primarily involves how close the tollerances are kept during the milling process and the quality of the materials being milled.Since the capital expendature needed to manufacture firearms is substantial then what sort of fool would intentionally produce an inferior product due to sloppy milling of lousy metals,and doing so would just not be logical from a business stand point.Also give each rifle a close examination for any appriciable difference besides finish?

Many of the members on this site have and will disagree with me on this subject but all I can say is that as long as the police like their DPMS rifles I believe my opinion regarding is well supported , after all these guys bet their lives on the reliability of their firearms every day on the job.

The only things I do not like about the DPMS is the butt stock which I fixed by adding an aftermarket recoil pad, the grips which were replaced with a set of Houges.Since you are going to be shooting mostly paper I recommend getting an aftermarket trigger installed in your rifle. From what I understand most AR rifles come from the factory with lousy triggers and nothing is more important than trigger performance when it comes to accurate shooting.I have not messed around with my trigger since I do not use my DPMS for shooting paper,I have bolt guns for this purpose.I have my AR just in case things go horribly wrong and I need personal defence firepower.

RT
February 24, 2011, 06:11 AM
I have ARs made by Colt, LMT, Noveske, and BCM. S&W makes a great entry level AR if you don't mind the 1:9 twist barrel. Personally, if I was gonna get a new rifle right now, I'd buy a BCM 16 inch midlength

Also, read this info
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

madcratebuilder
February 24, 2011, 08:03 AM
For your intended purposes I would go with the dancing pony. Colt well have a higher resale value and makes a fine rifle.

If you wanted a rifle to change out parts on into something custom, then go with the BCM or S&W.

goodspeed(TPF)
February 24, 2011, 10:09 AM
Iffin you're gonna get a 6920 CDNN has them for $1099.00.

reloader-1
February 24, 2011, 10:21 AM
I went through the exact same process.

I wanted a good quality rifle (I was willing to pay more for quality) that would be a sound purchase and allow me to enjoy shooting it at the range etc.

It also had to hold value as much as possible, and be Mil-Spec.


It was a no-brainer: I went with the Colt 6920

precision_shooter
February 24, 2011, 10:21 AM
Check out Rock River as well. For your intended uses, this is a heck of a deal...Compare the features/extras you get on this that you don't get on the others and would have to bought seperately.

Quad Rail handguard
2-stage NM trigger
Upgraded Grip
Flip up Front Sight
Any rear Sight you want
Muzzle Brake insted of a flash suppressor
Chromed BCG
Upgraded adjustable stock over the standard M4 type.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=464

I have one of these, and absolutely love it! Superbly accurate and well built. $1,500 rifle for $1,000...What's not to like?

atlantis
February 24, 2011, 10:27 AM
For no more than you're going to be shooting it (based on your explanation) any of those choices will be fine.

Shop around, though. I know better deals can be had on several of those you listed.

Bartholomew Roberts
February 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
Since the capital expendature needed to manufacture firearms is substantial then what sort of fool would intentionally produce an inferior product due to sloppy milling of lousy metals,and doing so would just not be logical from a business stand point.Also give each rifle a close examination for any appriciable difference besides finish?

Well, if 98% of your customers will never notice the difference between a T6061 extruded charging handle and a forged T7075 charging handle, and one charging handle saves you $0.50 per unit, which one are you going to sell them in a cost-competitive marketplace?

The problem with your reasoning here is you take the scenario too far. You are correct that no manufacturer is going to build a sloppily machined AR15 out of petwer and zinc. However, there are a lot of places you can cut money from an AR15 build that most shooters will never notice. As long as you plan to use your rifle like most shooters, that is a good thing; because you can get an AR15 rifle at a price you can afford.

Where it gets iffy is when people aren't "most shooters" or they are using rifles professionally where lives may be on the line and think that the rifle that works just fine for the 99% of people who fire less than 300 rounds a year through it is going to do well for them too.

Many of the members on this site have and will disagree with me on this subject but all I can say is that as long as the police like their DPMS rifles I believe my opinion regarding is well supported , after all these guys bet their lives on the reliability of their firearms every day on the job.

The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops and the only thing cheaper than two cops is the police department head who buys the gear. Your link is to a website where users can leave reviews. 55 users have left reviews, most of them rating the DPMS as 4 out of 5 stars or better. Let's examine some of these reviews:

dajana, Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:13:47 UTC.omgg i sooo want one of these for my b day.......VERYY NICEE

Dajana gives it 5 stars in the reviewing system - despite apparently not even owning one. I'd also question whether that was posted by a police officer; but I think we can agree that this isn't the type of review any of us would give a lot of credence to.

deputy48, Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:11:56 UTC.My First AR. I actually got it through my department for a significant discount. I am waiting on it to come in from DPMS.

Deputy48 gave it 5 stars as well, although he apparently hasn't received it or used it yet. Useful review?

dagould1, Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:45:59 UTC. I just purchased this weapon yesterday, I am a big fan of AR-15 and the M-16.

Another 5 star review; but has owned the weapon less than 24 hours at this point. Think he has even shot it before giving it a 5-star rating?

Anonymous, Thu, 03 Apr 2008 02:50:40 UTC.I want to buy this was my first firearm purchase on my 18 birthday. I have heard good things. But i figured id ask here. So....good rifle?

Another 5-star review, although, he apparently doesn't own the rifle and is 18yrs old and apparently not a police officer.

aaa111, Sat, 03 May 2008 02:50:52 UTC.never shot one of these. but have had several ar-15's (colt in particular) if it is as accurate as the colt, it's got to be good

Only a 4-star review here - hasn't owned or shot the rifle in question; but if it is like this other rifle from a totally different manufacturer, then I bet it is good.

So, I would disagree that the link you offered is conclusive evidence that police like the DPMS rifle or that your opinion is well supported. However, it does show what I was trying to describe earlier - there is a big market of people out there who will be very happy with a DPMS rifle and never notice the difference between it and some of its competitors.

Based on what Kimio is telling us in this thread, I think he is probably one of those guys who would find a DPMS suits his needs fine - with the caveat being that Kimio wants the rifle to maintain its value and the DPMS probably isn't the best choice in that regard; but as a plinker/shooter, I think he'd be very happy with it.

globalsmack
February 24, 2011, 12:31 PM
The RRA patrol is hard to beat for the money. Remember milspec doesn't equal best it's equals lowest common denominator for the military. Even the military doesn't abide by milspec.

Technology advances quickly.

Double Naught Spy
February 24, 2011, 01:11 PM
At first blush, I would say to go with a Colt. I have been very pleased with the Colt AR15 products I have owned. Of the two Colt lowers I have had, both seemed to have a crisper trigger (cleaner break) than anything standard I have shot from RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS. I have not tried LMT's standard lower, but own one with a 2 stage trigger and do not feel that the 2 stage trigger was worth the extra $.

$ for $, I think RRA is the best value for the buck. Their standard lowers have a fairly typical AR15 trigger. It is good, but not great, though years ahead of anything like a HK or AK trigger on non-AR15s. My RRA varmint upper has turned out to be exceptional. With the right ammo and right shooter (which sometimes isn't me), it has gotten 1/2 MOA groups at 300 yards from it. Personally, the best I have done is 3/4 MOA from 200 yards. It always kills me when other folks shoot my guns better than me, but the RRA varmint upper I have is great and apparently capable of things accuracy better than me.

A buddy of mine has gone with Spike's Tactical. I have shot his gun and he liked it enough to buy another. They seem about comparable to RRA and seem to be a very good value for the $.

I have to agree with BR about his assessments of production and the police. Various gun companies can and do turn out garbage. The great Colt company spent a couple of decades turning our garbage 1911s.

Endorsement via police use is not reliable. PDs often are given some very good program deals in order to adopt a platform and have access to training and resources that the normal buyer of a single gun won't get. The decision to adopt a platform often is not made by the street officers who have to use the guns, but by paper pushers involved with budgeting.

As a final consideration, consider buying your lower separate from your upper. When you buy a complete gun, you pay the exise tax (reflected in the price) on the entire gun. That only applies to the part with the serial number that is considered to be the firearm itself. So if you buy a lower, the exise tax only applies to the lower. The buy your upper separately. The upper is usually the most expensive half of the gun and you won't be paying that exise tax on it when purchased separately.

FWIW, I shoot my RRA varmint upper with my LMT lower with the 2 stage trigger for punching paper and trying to shoot longer distances. For hunting, I use a Colt upper and lower.

Mr. Wild
February 24, 2011, 01:17 PM
I searched the web, asked ar-15 owners, read forum after forum, talked to gun dealers, compared rifles and accessories for them.
I researched this thing to death to make sure I got what I wanted.
I'm not worried about an investment, I want to shoot it and leave it to my grandson when I go.

Its an awful lot of money to spend and I wanted to get the right one for me.
Its intended use is for paper and poking holes in stuff at the range.

I decided on a Rock River ar in 6.8 spc.
I just perfered 6.8 rather than 5.56.
As precision_shooter said its a heck of a deal, 2 stage trigger, flip sights, etc.
I ordered mine with different handgards, flip sights front and back, and several other things that added to the base price of $900.00 from the RRA dealer.

The major thing that sold me on the RRA AR was.
From what I've read and the RRA dealer told me, RRA doesn't make guns to sit on a rack at dealers like other makers.
They uaually make them when the order comes in, they don't just take them off the rack and send them.
(Now I know why I've never seen an RRA at a gun show.)
Quality and fit.
The standard hand grip is perfect.
The feel is perfect.

I ordered my RRA from a RRA dealer last week and it will take a minimum of 45 days to get it, even if I had ordered a 5.56.

Each person is different a RRA might not be for you.
But I figure if I'm going to spend $1000 or more on a AR, I'm going to get the best and most accurate AR I can get.

This is just my opinion from what I've read, been told, and have seen.
I believe I made the right decision.
Others might not agree with me, but thats OK, I'm happy.:D

ace4059
February 24, 2011, 02:26 PM
For the Best bang for the Buck. I would go with a S&W, then a RRA in that order. S&W has an over sized gas port and will shoot ANY ammo. I have never had a problem with mine and it is great. The S&W has the BEST stock trigger and the stock RRA trigger being a VERY close second. The trigger on S&W is heavy, but it has very little slack/slop in it, very short pull and it is a nice clean break. I have never shot the $120 RRA two stage aftermarket trigger, but people say it is good for the money, so I cant comment on that.

For Top quality, I would go with LMT first, then Colt, I think colt and DD are about tied for the same on quality. BCM is in the top line up, but I cant really say where because I just have a BCM lower, and not a complete rifle from BCM. So I can only compair complete rifles of the LMT, colt, and DD. Yes my BCM lower is nice, but out of the 4 top manufactures the LMT has the best trigger. The colt and DD trigger seem "rough" compared to the LMT trigger. They are a longer pull compared to the S&W. The LMT trigger is smooth, but still a little long of a pull compared to the S&W.

Bushmaster and DPMS, I would not go with. I always thought my bushmaster was a great gun because it was my first AR15. But not since I have better brand AR's I see that it is crappy. MY bushy will not shoot cheap under powered ammo. The trigger, is terrible and overall the gun is not build as well. I have never shot a DPMS nor owned one. Just looking at the quality has turned me away from them.


So If I was going to buy another AR tomorrow, I would get the LMT for quality, or for price I would go with S&W.

thesheepdog
February 24, 2011, 03:20 PM
Many of the members on this site have and will disagree with me on this subject but all I can say is that as long as the police like their DPMS rifles I believe my opinion regarding is well supported , after all these guys bet their lives on the reliability of their firearms every day on the job.

Police don't use DPMS around here. They get issued Colts.

The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops and the only thing cheaper than two cops is the police department head who buys the gear.
Haha! Bart that's "oh so true". My brother is a deputy and he can relate to that.

Your link is to a website where users can leave reviews. 55 users have left reviews, most of them rating the DPMS as 4 out of 5 stars or better. Let's examine some of these reviews:

Yep, PIGMAN's link isn't sufficient enough for proof of his statement.

Blackops_2
February 24, 2011, 03:24 PM
Noone likes that awesome build i put together for sub 900?? :(

thesheepdog
February 24, 2011, 04:03 PM
Noone likes that awesome build i put together for sub 900??

Which one?

Blackops_2
February 24, 2011, 04:13 PM
Post #4

BCM 16" mid upper w/ BCG & charging handle- 534$
Spikes tactical fully assembled lower- 275$
Magpul Rear MBUIS- 55$
Mid length handguards- 20$
Total: 884$ minus shipping.

thesheepdog
February 24, 2011, 04:17 PM
Ah that one. Sorry, didn't see your post earlier.

BlackOps has a really good point. You can build/assemble your own for under $1000.
Now that's a deal considering that BCM's are top of the line.

Blackops_2
February 24, 2011, 04:23 PM
Agreed :D. But seriously unless your finding a good deal on a S&W or something else worth notice. You would be hard pressed to find a better setup for the price. Even if you want to get something other than BCM still get the lower and upper separate and save some money. You could get DD, Spikes, or BCM whichever you prefer they're all very good and in the same price range.

reloader-1
February 24, 2011, 04:44 PM
Blackops,

good advice - but one huge caveat. That setup won't hold value worth a darn compared to the Colt 6920/S&W M&P etc.

Blackops_2
February 24, 2011, 04:50 PM
As in how exactly? Resale value? I'm not sure what you mean?

Magog
February 24, 2011, 05:33 PM
I feel the same way. The prices are nuts. I was even looking at some AK47 for 500 bucks and less.

Now I am looking at Bushmaster Optic ready rifle. Buds gun shop has them for $818.00.

A nice red dot and Magpul back up sights is all it needs.


I can see why AK's are popular and with 30 rounds you just might be able to hit the target for 500 bucks or less.

The price of AR's are insane. Do these people even know their consumer???

Jim243
February 24, 2011, 09:51 PM
If you are buying a AR that will hold up on price, my advice is DON'T. You will be too worry it's value will decrease.

Otherwise buy a gun to shoot, Bushmaster - Superlight $649.00.

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/SAM_0253.jpg

Added about $100 in accessories.
Jim

Kimio
February 24, 2011, 10:03 PM
Thank you all for your informative posts.

If I were to build a rifle instead of buying one, will I need any special tools besides the household basics of perhaps a screwdriver, hammer etc. I do understand that I may need to buy a special hammer and perhaps a set of punches.

@Blackops

Thank you for the suggestions, that build certainly is attractive for the price. Do you have links perhaps for the specific items you mentioned? Are they all available from BCM's website?

Also I understand that I will want to get quality magazines for my AR, Magpul is the only brand that I currently know of from many posters here, and if I recall they usually run anywhere from 30 to 40 bucks a magazine. What other brands should I consider when shopping around for a good quality magazine?

Blackops_2
February 24, 2011, 10:47 PM
I get my pmags with maglevel window for 17$. Bolt carrier and charging handle is on a drop down window for the upper. There mid length handguards are out of stock as well as Magpul BUIS, but you can get either of those at any vendor.


http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-MBUS-Rear-Back-Up-Iron-Sight-Black-p/mag246%20black.htm
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spikes-tactical-complete-lower-w-m4-stock-p-86.html
http://www.del-ton.com/Handguards_p/hg1012.htm

Kimio
February 25, 2011, 12:24 AM
Wow, that's a really good price for Magpul magazines, may I ask where you get them Blackops?

Blackops_2
February 25, 2011, 01:24 AM
From bravo company. Where have you seen them for 30+?

Without maglevel window:14$
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-PMAG-AR15-Magazine-p/mag211%20fde.htm

With: 17$
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-PMAG-AR15-Magazine-p/mag210%20fde%20window.htm

Kimio
February 25, 2011, 01:27 AM
A local gun range, as well as several gun shops in the Scottsdale and chandler area here in Arizona.

Blackops_2
February 25, 2011, 01:30 AM
Jeez :eek:, thats just ridiculous.

Kimio
February 25, 2011, 01:34 AM
Yeah, only place I saw them cheaper was at a gun show for around 20 bucks.

When you mentioned 14 to 17 I was pretty blown away, prices at the places I've seen is freaking highway robbery.

Jim243
February 25, 2011, 01:50 AM
Please!!!!!


http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar15m16.html

Wrath of Firepower
February 25, 2011, 01:53 AM
Check out Primary Arms, comparable price and free shipping.

Bartholomew Roberts
February 25, 2011, 08:55 AM
If I were to build a rifle instead of buying one, will I need any special tools besides the household basics of perhaps a screwdriver, hammer etc.

The "build" Blackops listed is an already assembled lower and an already assembled upper. So all you need to do to complete it is add handguards, drop the bolt carrier in the upper and then push two pins together. You may need a screwdriver and a tube of loctite to tighten the rear sight on the rail; but that is about it.

If you want to actually assemble an upper or lower yourself from individual parts, then you'll need some additional tools. What tools you'll need depends on the parts and whether you are building the upper, the lower, or both.

globalsmack
February 25, 2011, 10:47 AM
You can buy a complete upper and a complete lower from DSA for pretty cheap. The last time I checked, fall knob creek, they were under $600 for the pair.

GM_Firebird1967
February 25, 2011, 06:33 PM
I would defiantly go with the Colt. Smith and Wesson and Bushmaster are good too but Colt's are amazing.

Magog
February 25, 2011, 06:41 PM
Yep I am all torn up. I dont know which way to go with my purchase.

I am also looking at mini 14s. They are great light weight rifles, good shooters, and reliable, what a deal at CDNN for 580 huh???

And then top that off soon Archangle will release the new stock kit the Sparta to turn your mini 14 into a bad ass ACR look alike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T318dJ6FZzY

Blackops_2
February 25, 2011, 06:53 PM
IMO there is no sense spending extra on Colt for their logo when other top manufacturers are just as good. (I.E. BCM, DD, Spikes)

jhgreasemonkey
February 25, 2011, 07:01 PM
Man there are just way to many brands of AR-15's these days. There used to be a few good ones to choose from, now it's a rolling sea of manufacturers. It seems like you get around two new ones popping up each year. When will it end? Will many or only a few of these companies be around in 20 years?

Quentin2
February 25, 2011, 07:11 PM
Man there are just way to many brands of AR-15's these days. There used to be a few good ones to choose from, now it's a rolling sea of manufacturers. It seems like you get around two new ones popping up each year. When will it end? ...

And here's a new name - Dan Wesson!

J/K :D

I call mine Dan Wesson because I put a Daniel Defense upper on a S&W lower I built up. :p

Blackops_2
February 25, 2011, 07:53 PM
Quentin that's hilarious lol.

I'm a mil spec kinda guy, so i look at the mil spec brands. Just me, not taking any credit away from other manufacturers that just my thinking.

jhgreasemonkey
February 25, 2011, 08:18 PM
But when they all claim to be mil spec who do you believe? Which brands are actualy mil spec?

Chui
February 25, 2011, 08:44 PM
Stay away from DPMS.

I'd go Colt, LMT or BCM. Period.

Blackops_2
February 25, 2011, 09:06 PM
I would throw DD and Spikes in there. But yeah i would stay away from DPMS for sure. I personally don't really like Cerberus seems like anything they touch starts to deteriorate slowly until there is nothing left.

Que
February 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
There are a lot of AR's that you will be happy with, but, you may as well go with the Colt.

Me, when I decided on my two I went Stag and S&W and have been 100% happy.

As to future value, I will only allow that to be a very, very small consideration as my crystal ball is always in need of calibration.

Kimio
February 28, 2011, 09:39 PM
@Blackops

Hmmm, it looks like the bolt carrier and charging handle bonus from BCM was a limited time thing?

Anyone got suggestions on what I should be looking for when shopping for the Bolt carrier group and charging handle?

I'm currently looking at this one, I did see that there was another one for the same price, except one has MPI and one does not. What's the difference and should I be concerned about that? Below are links to both BCG's

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/CMT-AR15-Semi-MPI-Bolt-Carrier-Group-p/bcg-cmt-mp-ar15.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/CMT-AR15-Semi-Bolt-Carrier-p/bcg-cmt-ar15.htm

and for the charging handle

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Charging-Handle-BCM-p/bcm%20charging%20handle%20ar15.htm

christcorp
February 28, 2011, 11:11 PM
If you look for the right sales, you can get a great deal. A S&W M&P15OR retails for $1069. I would never spend that however. For that price, I would definitely go for a BCM. The M&P15OR in many stores like Sportsman's Warehouse, has it down to $949. I still wouldn't go for that price. You could go after a Spikes Tactical for that price. However; you can find the M&P15OR on sale for around $749 if you look. (I got mine from Sportsman's Warehouse for that price at Christmas). Then; S&W has a $100 rebate. (Different rebates available throughout the year). That brought the M&P15OR down to $649. You will not find that quality of AR15 elsewhere for that price. Now that the price is $500 less than the colts, lmt, D&D, BCM, etc... it becomes a different game all together.

As for the Bushmaster.... Well, I simply won't own a newer/modern one. Their company has gone into the toilet. I owned one years back and I liked it. But modern bushmasters are too picky on ammo. While the M&P15 has a larger gas port, and literally will shoot anything you feed it; (I shoot 90% steel case russian ammo; wolf, barnaul, bear, MFS, and tula); you can also tame the gas down with putting in a heavier buffer. I put in a Spikes Tactical ST-T2. Cost $29 and smoothed out the recoil considerably.

If prices were the same, I'd buy the Colt or LMT. Next would be the BCM. Next, would be the Spikes or S&W or DD, etc... I'd leave the bushmaster, olympics, doublestar, etc... for the bottom. However; when prices aren't the same; the S&W M&P15 can be about the best BANG for your buck. "PUN intended". Then, you have $500 extra for accessories like optics, lasers, slings, or whatever you want to put on it.

thesheepdog
March 1, 2011, 09:14 AM
Anyone got suggestions on what I should be looking for when shopping for the Bolt carrier group and charging handle?


Mil Spec or better.

I have the Tactical Version, which I think exceeds mil spec by a long shot.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.7_bc.php

RockyMtnTactical
March 1, 2011, 03:46 PM
All of these brands hold their value equally well in my experience. Colt makes a damn good rifle but it doesn't hold value any better than anything else.

That'll Do
March 1, 2011, 08:02 PM
If there is even the slightest chance that the rifle you intend to purchase might be used for self/home defense, then I would go with either Colt, LMT, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, or S&W. I have the Colt LE6920, and it was money well spent.

If it's just a ranger plinker, DPMS, Bushmaster, or RRA.

There most certainly is a difference in ARs, I think some people say that Gun X is just as good as Gun Y (even if they aren't) because they're mad/unhappy/whatever that their rifle isn't in the "top tier".

eatsleepdrinkshoot
March 1, 2011, 09:27 PM
Stay away from DPMS.

Why?

PIGMAN
March 2, 2011, 09:17 AM
I have 25 rifles and have only one aluminum gun which is a DPMS 308. It works just fine, doesnt jam and eats what I feed it.It is accurate enough for its intended purpose however lots of shooters here seem to think these DPMS rifles are junk and they are 100% correct since all these aluminum guns are junk.There is no substitute for hammer forged steel so basically all the AR platforms are junk because they are made from aluminum instead of steel so the debate here seems to be who's junk is the worst and the only thing worse than an aluminum rifle is polymer plastic pistol.This being said parts for these guns are pleantiful and cheap plus they are simple so it is easy to replace worn or broken parts and lots of inexpensive parts is the best thing these rifles have going for them.

These .223 AR rifles are basically plinkers anyway since the .223 is to light for much of anything else besides shooting coyotes and smaller varmints.If you are looking for a serious battle rifle get something made out of steel with serious stopping power such as an M1A or a Garand or a DSA FAL.

Is there anybody who disagrees with with me????