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View Full Version : Interesting encounter - advice, please.


bob.a
February 20, 2011, 04:07 PM
I had to get gas last night on the way home from work (2230). Pulled up to pump, started gassing up. A young Hispanic-lloking guy started hanging around, about 10 feet away. Black leather, stomping boots, shoulder-length hair. Never came closer than maybe 8 feet, but never went away. I was at passenger side rear, he controlled access to driver's side door.

I'm 63, out of shape, and on blood thinners, so a violent encounter was going to leave me in a very bad way, and I'm in no shape to run for it.

No cell phone, unarmed except for 3" folding knife; the person manning the gas station was locked into his office for the night; by the time he'd have become aware of the situation, it would have been over.

Options: Douse the guy with gas. But he never got close enough.
Try to ease past him, get in driver's seat: not going to work if he wanted to push the point. And the way he was hanginhg around, just out of reach, made me certain that he had plans involving me, and maybe my vehicle.
Get in passenger side, try to lock car and crawl into driver's seat. Awkward, and if I couldn't lock him out I'd be trapped in the car with him.
Lock car with keys and walk away. Possibly work, but not if he was determined. Also hate turning my back on a threat.
Pull the knife and look tough. fine unless he decides to shoot me. No sense precipitating an attack.

I live in Maryland, which means no carry, and work in DC, which means keeping a weapon in the car is likely to make me a ward of the state for a few years. So I'm essentially defenseless. As things worked out, a patrol car happened to drive into the strip mall on the next block as I finished pumping. My young friend, who had been hanging around, pulled a fade.

Had this not happened, I'm uncertain how the situation would have gone down.

Anyone out there have comments or suggestions? I don't like trusting to luck to save my butt.

Shootin Chef
February 20, 2011, 04:24 PM
I'm not at all familiar with the laws in your area, but isn't this situation exactly what a trunk gun is for? Have a small 9mm in a dark, out of the way corner in your trunk? You're at the rear passenger, so at the trunk, with the body between you and him for cover and concealment for what you are doing. You get your defense weapon after you pump your gas, head to your door, if nothing happens then you drive away and put the gun away on down the road.

INAL but if the trunk is locked, they can't make you open it without just cause and if it's tucked away very well they might not even see it any way. If you drive a truck then I guess it's a moot point, but maybe the locked glove compartment?

dawico
February 20, 2011, 04:25 PM
I would have said in a loud voice, "Hows it going?" This lets him know that you are aware of his presence, as if it wasn't already obvious, and his response will also give you a better idea of his intentions, which didn't seem good anyways. Eight feet is way too close for that situation in my opinion. I also would have already had the knife drawn and concealed, ready for an attack.

There are a couple of options that I think you missed.

One, you could have opened up the door closest to you, then locked the car with the key fob. This would have given you a good entry point and held him up.

Second, usually there is a button on the pump for handicapped assistance. This would have drawn the attention of the attendant. That may or may not have helped, but usually an attacker wants as little attention as possible.

The best thing would be to stall for time. When the pump clicks off, and if he didn't notice, continue to hold it in the pumping position. Hopefully someone else comes along, like what happened. If not, gas in the face would be a good attack deterrent, and draw some attention also.

First and foremost though, move to a state that lets you carry a gun. If not, avoid being alone at night like that. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

EricReynolds
February 20, 2011, 04:26 PM
That's a difficult spot to be in. As far as what happened and your options, if you have tinted windows, I'd get in the car on passenger side and wait to see what he does. I wouldn't even crawl in to the front seat. I could still have a way to escape if he goes nuts and if the windows are tinted, he wouldn't even realise I'm not still pumping. If he walks around to the other side to see if I'm still there, then I climb in front and take off. Where is the gas station located? If there is a place I can walk to and keep an eye on the car and use a phone, I'd do that. As for in the future, never go anywhere without a cell phone. I'd be lost without mine. If you can't carry and you have no phone, you are far too vulnerable.

Dwight55
February 20, 2011, 05:09 PM
Before Ohio finally opened up and gave us CCW, . . . I cannot tell you the number of times I had an open knife in one hand or the other for a similar scenario.

No, . . . I sure don't want to get into a knife fight with anyone, . . . but I'm not taking empty paws to a violent encounter if I have a knife, . . . which is just about all the time.

You don't have to show it, . . . but you do have to be prepared to use it, . . . and the whole thing isn't at all pretty, . . . and you will probably get cut up yourself, . . .

But if you live through it, . . . well, . . . you survived, . . . that is what it is all about.

May God bless,
Dwight

threegun
February 20, 2011, 05:16 PM
Any advice given without a firearm option would instantly be trumped by your opponent pulling a firearm. So I say move to a pro good guy State. When all the good guys leave they can kill each other and do society a favor.

FireForged
February 20, 2011, 05:32 PM
What defense options are available in your State? If I could not arm myself for defense purposes, I would cetainly alter the "when, where and what time" I pumped gas.

gearhounds
February 20, 2011, 05:56 PM
Since I'm LE, I am always armed, so I can't truly put myself in your shoes. Given your situation, living in the republic of Maryland, I would give serious thought to an equalizer of some kind; unless you are skilled with one, I wouldn't make a knife my first choice. I would rather obtain, and learn how to use an expandable baton. Under MD law, as I read it, an expandable baton does not fall into the prohibited weapon category, unless it's intent is to be used offensively. As a defensive tool, it is legal to have, and carry, subject to law (court houses, schools, etc), and is a menacing object when brandished with competence. Get one that opens and locks easily and securely, such as the Manadnock Auto-Lock. Then practice, practice, practice...

bob.a
February 20, 2011, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the advice so far.

Car does not have tinted windows, guy had me under constant observation. No key fob lock; I was thinking of getting in and trying a lockout, but I've never checked to see if I could lock all the doors at once except from the driver's position. Trunk weapon is a possibility, but I'd be going to jail if I had to use it, not a pleasant prospect. A nice club or tire iron would have some effect, but bringing a club to a gunfight is tactically weak: if the guy drew on me then, he'd surely shoot me. (I don't know if he was armed, but we have a fair number of gangbangers hereabouts, and they like to shoot each other).

It might come down to illegal carry, unless the courts come across with restoring our rights. I don't like to put myself in jeopardy, but it beats a pine box.

As to timing, I was thinking about gassing up Friday night, but figures Sat was safer. (I work 16 hrs Fri, 14 on Sat, leaves me little time. Next time I'll get up 15 minutes early and do the deed in tha morning; not too many folks getting robbed at 0800).

Moving is also an option I'm considering. Virginia is ten miles away, and I could carry there.

Wolfeye
February 20, 2011, 06:40 PM
Speaking as a long-haired, Republican, Protestant, clean & sober minority with two college degrees, I find this post to be very disturbing. Some of you people sound like you're itching to pull a gun on a guy for being hispanic. We have no other information, other than that the OP was scared of him for standing 10' away.

I am ticked off. My advice for the situation? Talk to the guy. For all we know, he was shy about asking for a smoke, or he was waiting for a ride to show up and was wondering why a 63 y/o man kept giving him weird looks. Since moving to the big city I've had to interact with people of many different backgrounds, and at first I was nervous about talking to any of them. I got over it. And not one of the whites, blacks, arabs, or filipinos I've talked to turned out to have plans on mugging me.

I'll try not to be offended, and pretend that the OP actually was in pending danger. The best course of action is to prevent the situation from developing in the first place: avoid questionable neighborhoods and have a look around before climbing out of the car to tank up or get cash. Prepare yourself by carrying strong pepper spray, if that's legal, and a really strong flashlight that you can shine in their eyes. A big dog can help, but not so much if he's in the back seat.

Bob.a, I mean no offense, but your words have offended me, and I've given my best 2 cents despite it. I respectfully ask that you close this thread.

Good luck to you.

FireForged
February 20, 2011, 07:05 PM
We all have our life experiences to rely on when it comes to detecting "danger". Some may even be so subconscious that you cant describe it in words. I guess to put it plainly, I trust the OP ability to judge correctly if something bad or dangerous was afoot. I do not base this belief on how he described the event but rather on the fact that he just expressed a sense of danger. I didnt notice anyone saying that he should take some kind of action against the fellow. I only noticed people suggesting a way to be prepared.

threegun
February 20, 2011, 07:46 PM
Speaking as a long-haired, Republican, Protestant, clean & sober minority with two college degrees, I find this post to be very disturbing. Some of you people sound like you're itching to pull a gun on a guy for being hispanic. We have no other information, other than that the OP was scared of him for standing 10' away.



Wolfeye, Please do yourself a favor and get a thicker skin. I'm hispanic and found nothing wrong with the description given. Reality proves profiling to be a valuable tool. Perhaps latinos commit the most crimes in his area.

Itching to pull a gun on a guy for being hispanic or preparing to defend myself from a man who looks intent on ill will?

Get real and grow up. Save the race card for the real deal.

pmeisel
February 20, 2011, 07:57 PM
I have had similar experiences recently -- leading to one hand on the knife. I am also good sized, and close attention to the "crowder" caused him to back off and look elsewhere a couple times.

wolfeye -- sorry you are offended, but I doubt you often stand, late at night, in a position that makes others fear assault. That's more about posture and position than it is about grooming or ethnicity. I have short hair and am lily white but I know how to appear threatening.

curt.45
February 20, 2011, 08:10 PM
you could just get a car with the filler on the drivers side.

and talking to the guy gives him a reason to move closer, I go for just keeping an eye on him and not making any kind of contact.

I used to gas up late at night out of convenience but I can carry and I'm kinda big.

jhenry
February 20, 2011, 08:11 PM
I don't think Hispanic had a thing to do with the encounter, or anyone's response. "Hispanic" was simply an observation of the guy. I didn't take it as anything else. Kudos for being aware enough to get a good description.

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned OC as an option for self defense considering the location of travel and work.

Ben Towe
February 20, 2011, 08:13 PM
Actually you probably could have doused him with gas at that distance. Most pumps put out a pretty healthy stream. Gas in the eyes hurts. I suppose tossing him a lit zippo after soaking him would have definitely ended it if just the gas didn't, but you might have turned the whole place into a funeral pyre, yourself included. :eek:

Bad situation any way you look at it.

cambeul41
February 20, 2011, 08:14 PM
"Wolfeye," you are funny. Listen to three gun.

For 26 years I was married into a Muslim family (great people). I teach in Detroit and am quite comfortable being the only one of my race (I don't have an ethnicity) in the room. I have Hispanic in-laws (great people as well). If some one who doesn't look like me -- or does -- appears to be threatening, they will be treated as a threat. I couldn't care less if their feelings are hurt.

Being too PC could get either of us killed.

Shootin Chef
February 20, 2011, 09:36 PM
I don't really see it as "itching" to pull a gun when you feel threatened and slightly helpless in the face of what you perceive to be danger. OP didn't sound like he wanted to put the barrel to the guys nose, just have something on hand should he attempt to get back to his drivers side and things escalated.

As for his reference to the man's ethnic appearance, do you really feel that strongly insulted? He described the man exactly like I would hope someone would had the man ended up being a danger and harmed the op and ran off.
I just can't see the police report of a "tan skinned fellow" working very well personally.

therewolf
February 20, 2011, 10:04 PM
I've pumped gas a few times at night with one hand on the pump,

and one hand on the gun in my pocket.

Move to a shall-issue state. Don't spend any money where you can't have a

gun.

Glenn Bartley
February 20, 2011, 10:23 PM
I am ticked off. My advice for the situation? Talk to the guy. For all we know, he was shy about asking for a smoke, or he was waiting for a ride to show up and was wondering why a 63 y/o man kept giving him weird looks. Since moving to the big city I've had to interact with people of many different backgrounds, and at first I was nervous about talking to any of them. I got over it. And not one of the whites, blacks, arabs, or filipinos I've talked to turned out to have plans on mugging me. Why not go back and read the original post again. Because of your apparent playing the race card, it appears you missed an awful lot of what made the guy appear to be an apparent threat which was then quite likely upheld because he slithered away when a police car came into sight.

Pepper spray might be a good non-gun self defense weapon to carry for the person who started the thread. It may beat knife fighting if you are not trained in it. A collpaisible baton might be a good 2nd weapon. Of course, I mean only if both are legal.

Mike38
February 20, 2011, 10:25 PM
Wolfeye, I’m a bit confused here. First you write:

And not one of the whites, blacks, arabs, or filipinos I've talked to turned out to have plans on mugging me.

Then you write:

….avoid questionable neighborhoods…

If there are no Whites, Blacks, Arabs, or Filipinos that have plans to mug you, how can questionable neighborhoods exist?

Truth is, no matter the color of someone’s skin, evil exists in the world we live in. If I don’t know someone, I don’t trust them, until they earn my trust. Call me paranoid if you want, but I plan on dying of old age peacefully in my bed, not shot or cut up, bleeding out and murdered.

raimius
February 21, 2011, 12:28 AM
I would advise training with and carrying the best legally-permissable weapon for defense.

In the OP's case, I agree that politely acknowledging the other person's presence is smart. I have read many reports and compilations that suggest most criminals seek unaware victims. If you can remove that, it is an asset. Second, keep a solid object between you and them, if you suspect trouble. It's not quite as good as distance, but legitimate cover can be very valuable. Third, why don't you have a cell phone!? They are cheap and punching 4 buttons can get backup rolling (9-1-1-send).

...or you can reach into your pocket, sigh, then ask the guy for some money since you left your wallet at home. Who knows, it might work.

bob.a
February 21, 2011, 12:29 AM
I'm not trying to slam anyone for their race or ancestry; the guy's behavior had all my alarm bells going off, and there's no doubt in my mind that he planned to take me down. This guy was not hanging around looking to bum a match, and getting him into conversation range didn't seem like a good idea.

As it happens, there is a large Hispanic presence in my area, with sanctuary cities and lots of gov't assistance, which makes the area enticing. There has arisen an extensive gang presence over the last couple years, with MS13 and the Latin Kings becoming the object of multi-county and federal anti-gang efforts. This makes me a bit wary.

At any rate, I did check out the locks in the car: turns out the driver's door lock button is the only one that would lock all the doors. So realistic options would be to either lock the doors from outside and leave the car, or get in on the passenger dide and dive for the locking button, and take my chances.

With no legal means of suitable defense, I'll have to seriously modify my habits to take current realities into account.

Ryder
February 21, 2011, 12:31 AM
I don't think Hispanic had a thing to do with the encounter, or anyone's response.

It does mine :D



Maryland: Gang Haven
By Jon Feere, April 22, 2009

According to Montgomery County, Maryland’s Chief of Police J. Thomas Manger, his jurisdiction is experiencing an increase in gang violence, particularly from Hispanic gangs like MS-13 and the Latin Kings. A great majority of these gang members are illegal aliens...

http://www.cis.org/Feere/MDImmigrantGangHaven

Skans
February 21, 2011, 09:06 AM
Given that you are not likely to move just so you can carry a gun:

1. Don't pump gas at night.
2. Ditch the 3" knife and get something a little more substantial - preferably a fixed blade.
3. Pepper spray would be a good idea to have on you and its cheap enough to have extra bottles hidden around your vehicle.
4. Might want to invest in some sort of body armor if you are out and about a lot at night.
5. Using other entry points to your vehicle like others have said is a good idea.
6. I also liked the "how's it going" technique - lets you judge what his intentions are, especially while you still have the pump in your hand.
7. Keep cell phone on you - could have called 911 if necessary. If nothing else, just the sight of you doing something with your cell phone might be enough to get the guy's attention.

Ben Towe
February 21, 2011, 09:46 AM
Skans makes some excellent recommendations... But if crime gets to a point where I feel it necessary to wear body armor to pump a tank of fuel, I am either going to: a) Move. b) throw the tarp off the Batmobile, unleash my inner superhero, and do something about.

Of course I jest about option B, but it is absolutely unacceptable that there is anywhere in the United States that it is that dangerous for law abiding citizens to go about their lives. Ridiculous.

threegun
February 21, 2011, 10:03 AM
There is nothing wrong with using every available tool for self defense. Profiling is yet another tool to be used as needed to keep us safe. If I see a car load of young Hispanics sitting in a vehicle looking around vs a car load of young Caucasian youth doing the same, they will receive a different response from me because in my area many Latinos are members of the Latin Kings and other gangs. They are responsible for a higher number of robberies and beat downs in my area. I have yet to hear of any Caucasian group youth doing the same. So the Latino group for this reason will raise my alert level much higher than the white group. Just as a man dressed up in a preachers outfit will cause less concern than the same man in a sweat suit with hood up.

In my above example if the white youth was the greater problem in my area they would get the raised alert. If both groups did both would get it. Its simply another tool to keep me safe and nothing more.

One thing I have found to be surprisingly true and very disappointing is how racists many of those folks who cry racism are.

Shootin Chef
February 21, 2011, 10:21 AM
I'm so going to Party City and renting a preacher outfit next time I want to rob you Threegun :D I know your weakness now!

threegun
February 21, 2011, 11:02 AM
Horns and a pointed tail are very very hard to conceal Chef LOL.

LordTio3
February 21, 2011, 11:07 AM
Okay, so there is a man standing 8-10' from me at night while I'm pumping my gas. I have no gun, only a 3" folding knife, and he hasn't moved. There are no apparent witnesses and he hasn't said anything or moved at all.

I do one of two things:

1. I turn to stand square to him, and this is why: 1. If he was a "hardened criminal" type intent on robbing me, he would have robbed me by now instead of waiting for someone to see him or for the cameras here to get a good look from all the angles. So he's either mustering up his courage (which I can use) or he's just shy and wants to ask for some ridiculous favor ("hey man... you have a pencil I can have?" "No. Get out of here.")

After turning to squarely face him, I say in a loud sharp voice, "HEY! Do you mind standing somewhere else?" I don't ask him what he wants because that opens him up to make demands. I ask from him a reasonable request which, if refused, gives me cause to assume he's up to no good. It's short. It's to the point. It doesn't leave room for conversation. It says, "I don't want any. Leave me alone."

2. (You COULD supersede the first option with this one, but I'd tend to wait. That's just me.)
You call the police. 911, then ask for non-emergency dispatch or the like. Tell them you are a private citizen at "Gas Station" off of "Highway", and that there is a suspicious individual loitering and intimidating people. Look RIGHT AT HIM and give a detailed description as fast as you can. He'll leave. And the police will appreciate having his suspicious activity on record if the guy IS in fact up to no good and tries to rob someone in the next hour, or day, or week. The police aren't just interested in "Robbery in Progress" or "Murder Suspect Resisting Arrest". They want to know about the smaller things to, and they appreciate responsible and reasonable citizens contributing to the overall public safety, provided you don't try to take it too far.

This is a reasonable contribution.

~LT

Ben Towe
February 21, 2011, 11:37 AM
LordTio3-
Option 1: HEY! Do you mind standing somewhere else?
I can't see that helping matters. I know men who would knock your teeth out for saying that to them, even if they meant you no harm to begin with. At the very least, if a nice guy like me is standing there I'm probably going to tell you to go to the fiery regions and to feel free to pump gas elsewhere.

Option 2- 911
Nothing wrong with calling the authorities if you feel threatened, and your description method might run him off... or he might fill you with enough lead to sink a Nimitz class carrier, pick up your wallet and keys, and drive off in your freshly gassed car, safe in the knowledge it will be close to an hour before the police can mount any kind of effective manhunt. Plenty of time to be long gone.
My $0.02.

LordTio3
February 21, 2011, 11:46 AM
Nothing wrong with calling the authorities if you feel threatened, and your description method might run him off... or he might fill you with enough lead to sink a Nimitz class carrier, pick up your wallet and keys, and drive off in your freshly gassed car, safe in the knowledge it will be close to an hour before the police can mount any kind of effective manhunt. Plenty of time to be long gone.

Apparently in your skimming you missed this part...
If he was a "hardened criminal" type intent on robbing me, he would have robbed me by now instead of waiting for someone to see him or for the cameras here to get a good look from all the angles. So he's either mustering up his courage (which I can use) or he's just shy and wants to ask for some ridiculous favor ("hey man... you have a pencil I can have?" "No. Get out of here.")


...which leads right into this being completely ridiculous...
I can't see that helping matters. I know men who would knock your teeth out for saying that to them, even if they meant you no harm to begin with. At the very least, if a nice guy like me is standing there I'm probably going to tell you to go to the fiery regions and to feel free to pump gas elsewhere.


YOU WOULDN'T be standing there, with no car, in the middle of the night, 8 feet from a stranger, looking mischevious, for minutes at a time, without saying or doing anything but still managing to put this innocent gentleman on edge and fear for his safety. YOU WOULDN'T. And no one in their right mind would find it odd that some innocent stranger would be personally offended by someone doing this to them. You know men that would try to knock my teeth out? You need some new friends.

~LT

overkill0084
February 21, 2011, 11:56 AM
Find a busier gas station with a lot of traffic.
Perhaps consider filling up at a more hospitable hour.
Pepper spray, nastiest legal stuff you can find.
If possible, a more self defense friendly locale.

Ben Towe
February 21, 2011, 12:50 PM
1. I didn't miss that part. I should have addressed how you could possibly know how a "hardened" criminal would behave:confused:. People are unpredictable and irrational.

2. I wouldn't be standing there? How could you possibly know? Perhaps my car broke down two blocks down and I walked there to call for a ride and am waiting on them. I'm in a crappy mood because I just slung a rod through my engine and don't feel like exchanging pleasantries.

I'm not sure I look mischievous but I would defintely appear intimidating to your average 5'10" 180 pound man since I'm 6'5" in boots and weigh just shy of 400 pounds.

Those men I mentioned. I said I knew them, not that we were friends.

My whole point, that you obviously missed, was your solutions might un-necessarily escalate a situation you could have walked away from. Being courteous doesn't make you appear weak. A "You doin' alright?" will get you alot further than acting like someone just broke out of the state pen. Virtually every time.

output
February 21, 2011, 02:42 PM
Carrying pepper spray might be a good idea. I keep a can in every vehicle and normally I have small can on my person. There are a number of things that you could have done just as you and others have mentioned…which one is best? I can’t say.

Things I would do:

1.) Try to keep at least ¼ - ½ of the gas tank full at all times. This will enable you to pick and choose when and where you want to fill your tank. Preferably mid-day when there are a lot of people at the station.
2.) Carry pepper spray

sirsloop
February 21, 2011, 03:05 PM
That's certainly a sticky situation. People can say what they want about racial profiling, etc. Look in the newspaper. Look at the prison demographics. You don't see a lot of preppy white boys in their early 20's committing armed robbery, assault, etc. Depending on where you live, you do see a lot of minorities committing these crimes... and its certainly not out of the question to think that way when you have some dude all dressed in black lurking around you pumping gas in the middle of the night at a gas station. Its suspicious activity FOR SURE.

I personally would have quietly drawn and concealed my knife. Probably said something to the guy like "hey man whats up". Definitely would make strong eye contact to gauge his intent and express dominant behavior, definitely would have let the dude know he's dealing with a 6'9" 255lbs dude, definitely would speak with an authoritative deep tone, definitely would not turn my back to him, and definitely would have my head on a swivel looking around for accomplices.

These people many times are criminals of opportunity. If you appear like an easy target, unaware, or unable to protect yourself you can find yourself in trouble. By simply being aware, making eye contact, asserting yourself, you can easily make these people think twice.

jimbob86
February 21, 2011, 03:23 PM
I'm 63, out of shape, and on blood thinners, so a violent encounter was going to leave me in a very bad way, and I'm in no shape to run for it.

No cell phone, unarmed except for 3" folding knife

I live in Maryland, which means no carry, and work in DC, which means keeping a weapon in the car is likely to make me a ward of the state for a few years. So I'm essentially defenseless.

"Essentially Defenseless"=Bad plan. ...... you planned this? Or failed to plan and this is how you ended up?

Carry a phone, so at the very least, you can appear to be calling the Police. Actually calling them would give them a 911 recording to play at the trial, if they ever catch your attacker....

Bear spray?

I'm glad I don't live in Maryland. .... and won't be in a hurry to visit, either.

sirsloop
February 21, 2011, 03:32 PM
Yeah, being a big intimidating young buck myself, I feel a little more secure with just a knife. NJ law also does not grant CCW's to upstanding citizens, so we have to make do with what we can around the law. If I was older I would absolutely have pepper spray on me in that situation, and would have something with reach like a baseball bat in the trunk plus possibly a big arse "dog the bounty hunter" size bottle of pepper spray in the trunk.

Also, just because the attendant is locked in his room doesn't mean he can't help you. You could have walked over to him and got his attention. At the very least he could be a deterrent and witness to a violent crime. If I were going to rob someone I wouldn't do it while there was a guy watching, locked in a room, with a phone.

skoro
February 21, 2011, 03:56 PM
Anyone out there have comments or suggestions? I don't like trusting to luck to save my butt.

Since the PDR of Maryland won't allow you to be armed, how about keeping a small tube of pepper spray handy? That's some nasty stuff and will definitely change a goblin's mind about what he intends to do next.

markj
February 21, 2011, 04:05 PM
Options: Douse the guy with gas. But he never got close enough.



Didnt get close enough? All he did is watch you or look at you?

How a bout a good solid baseball bat in the seat with a glove and a couple balls so it doesnt look like it is for a weapons use which makes it premeditated in a way.

Get the gas during the day and stay out of bad areas. I been in DC and saw some bad dudes when we got off the beltway or some road I was kinda lost. Was a bad area but the guy we asked for directions was OK, little ruff but a polite person.


I have never felt fear from a person looking at me. I like people of all cultures, love the food :) and try to get along with them all.

threegun
February 21, 2011, 04:21 PM
A "You doin' alright?" will get you alot further than acting like someone just broke out of the state pen. Virtually every time.


Perhaps nice works better when you are 6 ft 5 and 400lbs. Nice from a small frame does denote weakness in my expeirience.............5ft 7in under 200.

threegun
February 21, 2011, 04:31 PM
These people many times are criminals of opportunity. If you appear like an easy target, unaware, or unable to protect yourself you can find yourself in trouble. By simply being aware, making eye contact, asserting yourself, you can easily make these people think twice.


I agree.

WANT A LCR 22LR
February 21, 2011, 05:18 PM
Everyone seems to be missing that the OP's focus is on the guy standing around and not looking fo a 2nd person.

I'd still inform the police of the situation, at some point this guy is likely to strike.

raimius
February 21, 2011, 05:23 PM
There are big differences between "nice," "polite," and "jerk." When sizing up someone's intentions, I'd for for "polite" in an authoritative but non-threatening way. AKA, I mean business, but I'm not looking for a fight.

threegun
February 21, 2011, 05:24 PM
Everyone seems to be missing that the OP's focus is on the guy standing around and not looking fo a 2nd person.



A couple of replies addressed this.

KingEdward
February 21, 2011, 05:43 PM
generally, I would be carrying and would do what I could do to not provoke or retreat. Just protect my life if called for.

I also keep a small piece of metal pipe (about 20 in long) on the floor behind the passenger's seat (side where I fill gas). It looks like a cross between a tire iron / tool.

Times prior when someone is 8-10 foot away seemingly minding their own
but not moving away or towards, I've grabbed the pipe (held parallel to pants leg) and acted like I was looking at the rear wheel (lug nut issue) while the tank was filling. But I was in condition orange and acutely focused on the
person and or the permiter.

Now if they move on, okay or stay static, okay.

If they attack, it's pipe to head/face until attack stops. Preceded by "no, please don't hurt me..."

WANT A LCR 22LR
February 21, 2011, 05:50 PM
"" A couple of replies addressed this. ""

Sure, a single post ( 36 ) and just a passing mention.

threegun
February 21, 2011, 07:14 PM
Sure, a single post ( 36 ) and just a passing mention.

Thanks for the correction. It wasn't a passing mention any more than the other 7 plus things sirsloop would have done were.

Frankly in this scenario the MAIN threat should be the MAIN focus. Scanning for additional threats while important takes a back seat to the MAIN threat.

Ben Towe
February 21, 2011, 08:15 PM
What I meant by courteous is be polite. You don't have to ask how the old folks and all the cousins are. The look in your eyes will tell most people all they need to know. Look scared and people will know you are scared.

Threegun, I'll concede that "nice" might work better for someone my size that yours. But I didn't mean nice...

dakota223
February 21, 2011, 08:31 PM
Best defense tool you have is your brain, you recognized the surroundings and you need to distance yourself from the situation. You should have hung up the pump walked to the clerk behind the glass. And said excuse me I seem to be having problems with the pump can you help me.

Dwight55 Ohio Does Not Have A CCW! Ohio has a chl big differense. We as ohioans threw in the towel quickly. If you dont believe me look at your license from the sheriffs office and read the top. It will say concealed handgun license. This is one law that ohio should reapeal and fight for a true CCW. If you conceal a knife by ohio law you can be charged with concealing a weapon. Even if you have a CHL license. This happened to a gentlemen by I believe the last name Barker up in cleveland a little over a year back. The cops wanted to harass him.

threegun
February 21, 2011, 08:41 PM
Threegun, I'll concede that "nice" might work better for someone my size that yours. But I didn't mean nice...


Gotcha.

Short story. I'm standing in my lawn trailer replacing string on my trimmer when a man walks up and asks if he could help me mow the grass. I explained to him (very nicely) that although I earn a living mowing grass this yard was in fact my own (it really was my yard) and I wasn't earning any money by mowing it. He continues to talk and I continue to string my weed whacker. I finish and listen for several minutes while baking in the hot Florida sun. Finally I said (again very nicely) sir I have to get to work now. He now begins to perform windmills and jumping jacks after removing his shirt. I open the rear compartment on my fanny pack exposing my Glock 20 but only to me (he has no idea I have a gun). I say I enjoyed the chat but gotta go now. He proceeds to spout racial slurs and explain how he was gonna harm me. At this point I'm ticked off and hollar for my wife. She pops her head out the door and I tell her in a very stern voice to call police before I end up having to shoot this idiot. The man walked away cussing.

I felt like my good nature made him sense weakness. Since then I am stern but not mean.

NESHOOTER
February 21, 2011, 08:48 PM
Anyone out there have comments or suggestions? I don't like trusting to luck to save my butt.


Pump gas at High Noon, take a buddy, and only stop where there are at least 5 cars also getting gas. Wear a life alert hand on the button, or get your neighbor to pump gas for you....

Hook686
February 21, 2011, 08:51 PM
What I found interesting is the OP was unwilling to put a gun in his trunk because he could go to jail, but said he thought he needed to carry, even if it ment going to jail. I'm thinking the gun in the trunk is less noticable. Why fear having one hidden in the trunk when carrying one illegally would be ok ? I think filling your tank at lunch hour, or day off, beats this night fillup option. However if one wants to rationalize illegally carrying, then this script is as good as any.

motorhead0922
February 21, 2011, 10:39 PM
I'm 63, out of shape, and on blood thinners,

It doesn't matter whether you are armed or not, you need to get a cell phone tomorrow.

Crazy88Fingers
February 21, 2011, 10:45 PM
If you can't carry an actual weapon a big ol' Mag-Lite next to your driver's seat can be quite handy.

Rufus T Firefly
February 21, 2011, 11:11 PM
Yell! Call the Police! Call 911!.
If the situation was a coincidence he would probably call the Police, and most likely apologize for making you feel threatened. If not some witness might hear him or you might alert the attendant.

Worst comes to worst call 911 yourself and tell the officer you felt threatened by his presence. Staring at people can be considered stalking.

Even if you had a gun at that point you might be charged with "brandishig" and that can cause problems.

I am 57 and could use the threat of deadly force since I had a faulty heart valve. The law usually sides against the perp who is assumed to understand the risk of causing a crime against another. You would be exempt from lawsuits or such should you have.... "alarmed him or caused some, mental duress". I can't help laughing as I type that. A normal person would apologize to you. Someone meaning you harm will not.

Rufus T Firefly
February 21, 2011, 11:16 PM
I know you have alot of post and are very cognizant of gun issues. I do want to point out where you messed up. If you shouted..."before I shoot this guy". You removed yourselve from the legal protection of being a reluctant participant.

It might have been all another witness heard. And you know how reliable witnesses are NOT reliable.

Sport45
February 21, 2011, 11:20 PM
Do some of you really think the guy deserved to be drenched with gasoline or pepper sprayed just because he was standing there? Do we know why he was standing where he was? Maybe he was trying to get into the light of the station's canopy because he was fearful of something as well. Maybe he felt more secure being around someone else.

We should be aware of what's going on around us, but we're not supposed to become the aggressor.

youngunz4life
February 21, 2011, 11:23 PM
he was sizing you up for whatever reason (in my opinion). do what you got to do while keeping a close eye on him(not an engaging stare). leave after pumping gas. that is literally what I would do. you felt uncomfortable, so something was up(probably your intuition knew he was sizing you up for unknown reasons). guys do things like this on the subway. they want to bum change or whatever. the problem is that the perp is undecided on his sizing up. Engagement - good or bad - can lead to more, unwanted issues.

Now obviously he might just be a regular guy too. maybe he did break down and he was getting the courage to ask you to use your cellphone. I had to do that one time(not fun at all). mine died and I needed to call family. It was a unique, necessary situation. two people said no and the business owner allowed me to use the phone. I probably would've said no too. This was mid-day//sorry to go off subject partially. people understandably have issues not believing you completely when you want to use their phone.

I am not going to be rude or engage in other ways in the OP scenario. It is at a standstill and in my opinion you should just work thru it leaving it at that level. If he comes at you quick yes the game has changed. If he speaks to you then take it from there: just getting in car anyways so leave, answer and use your best judgement as its not at a standstill anymore. I know stories of girls disappearing forever in parking lots or mainly the ND college girl comes to mind. Her body was found in MN or ND one winter. You'd be surprised how the dark can collect in gas lots, parking lots, etc. the light accumulates in one spot and things happen quick(I heard the physics on it but am not good with science). this guy possibly wasn't alone. I had a girl try to sell me meat for 50bucks one time in a gas lot! no joke!!obvious drug addict but looked normal and said she needed money for her kids. ps-I live in the country and grew up in the suburbs!

Catfishman
February 21, 2011, 11:35 PM
Don't say anything rude to anyone trying difuse a situation. You may create a problem. You may light someones short fuse or make criminal decide he doesn't like you and make him more likely to attack or to attack more ferociously than he would have.

It appears that you were either in a bad situation or there was absolutely no problem at all. I'm not so sure the guy was about to attack, but I wasn't there.

Anyway, you have described youself as basically defenseless. If that is the case you should make changing your routine your top priority. If you are indeed small out-of-shape and consider yourself old, I wouldn't recommend trying to thwart an attack with a baton, flashlight or knife. Give him what he wants and get out of the way.

Pump you gas during the daylight, buy pepperspray and buy a cell phone.

Rufus T Firefly
February 21, 2011, 11:55 PM
Perople scream profiling every chance they get.
The US Government asks for your Nationality! When the government stops asking me my origin, I will become liberally policically correct.

Race is not an issue. It is a description of the person in question. No more or less important than Jeans, Blue Shirt and driving a Chevy Malibu.

Stop the race issue. Every race commits crimes. It is a description that the LEOS use to get a grip on who they are looking for.

threegun
February 22, 2011, 06:37 AM
I know you have alot of post and are very cognizant of gun issues. I do want to point out where you messed up. If you shouted..."before I shoot this guy". You removed yourselve from the legal protection of being a reluctant participant.

It might have been all another witness heard. And you know how reliable witnesses are NOT reliable.

Rufus, If you had seen the chiseled mass of man in front of me threatening me you wouldn't have worried about justification. That said you are correct in that I should have chosen a better group or words. Words that would help in court and not hurt. Honesty I was young dumb and angry. This happened close to twenty years ago. I had little carry and zero tactical experience. Plus I allowed anger to effect me. I was ticked off that this guy was using his size to try to intimidate me. Plus I was baking in the sun and getting ready to do a freebie mow on my own yard LOL.

If the situation happened today I would have ended it instantly and or called 911 myself (no cell phone for me back then).

threegun
February 22, 2011, 06:40 AM
Do some of you really think the guy deserved to be drenched with gasoline or pepper sprayed just because he was standing there? Do we know why he was standing where he was? Maybe he was trying to get into the light of the station's canopy because he was fearful of something as well. Maybe he felt more secure being around someone else.

We should be aware of what's going on around us, but we're not supposed to become the aggressor.



Sport, I think they meant using the pump to spray gas IF the guy attacked.

Sport45
February 22, 2011, 07:38 AM
I hope that's what they meant, 'cause it's not what they said...

Options: Douse the guy with gas. But he never got close enough.

Actually you probably could have doused him with gas at that distance. Most pumps put out a pretty healthy stream.

PIGMAN
February 22, 2011, 09:17 AM
This stuff will repell any variety of third world miscreant as well as a 1000 pound polar bear. It does the job with out using deadly force and totally avoids possible legal jeopardy that arises from its use.

Ben Towe
February 22, 2011, 09:58 AM
I don't think anybody meant douse him as a precautionary measure. I know I did not.

Shootin Chef
February 22, 2011, 11:29 AM
I don't think anybody meant douse him as a precautionary measure. I know I did not.

I find it interesting this even has to be said.

threegun
February 22, 2011, 12:08 PM
I find it interesting this even has to be said.

Me too.

Ben Towe
February 22, 2011, 12:15 PM
I find it interesting this even has to be said.
Sport apparently needed clarification.

bob.a
February 22, 2011, 12:27 PM
Right. I don't normally go around incinerating strangers. But certainly the pump provides an improvised weapon if it comes to that.

My ambivalence regarding a trunk gun or illegal carry boils down to this: a pistol in the trunk, loaded, is already illegal; if I need it and can't reach the trunk it's not doing me any good, so it makes better sense to carry on my person, if I'm to go that route at all.

As the guy was maneuvering around the vehicle, never closing but always in position to deny me access to the driver's door, and seemed to be trying to give the impression of just hanging around, my suspicions were quite high. There's nothing there to hang around for, unless he wanted to pick up a used car. If he was armed with a firearm, I was screwed; even a knife would have been bad news.

I'm not a scaredy cat; my sense that the situation was Not Right was strong, and I stand by it. I don't care what his genetic affiliating might be, I think I can judge a situation pretty well, and this one reeked of problem.

As I say, I lucked out. I will be taking stronger precautions in future. Bear spray might end up being something no vehicle should be without.

MLeake
February 22, 2011, 03:41 PM
... that some of the folks saying the guy might just have been innocently standing around missed a couple of the OP's points:

1) The guy was in close proximity to the OP (10' or so) and nobody else was nearby; and

2) The guy was in a position that controlled access to the driver's door of the OP's car.

Those two factors would definitely draw my attention, and most likely raise my hackles.

And, as somebody else did notice, the OP stated the guy left his position and departed when a patrol cruiser rolled by.

While we don't know for sure, I'd call it 90% certain the guy was not up to anything good.

Then again, he may just have been a panhandler, who decided not to ply his trade in front of the police. Grey area between BG and nuisance. But a panhandler who's willing to block a person in before asking for a handout is not much different from a strong-arm robber.

I've found with panhandlers that what works best (for me) is being courteous but not friendly. I'm not overtly rude, but I'm not interested in their stories, and I have things to do.

But I'm decent sized, in decent shape, not that old, and live someplace where permits are shall-issue. I suspect I give off a vibe that tells those guys that there are probably easier marks elsewhere.

Sport45
February 22, 2011, 08:04 PM
Sport apparently needed clarification.

I didn't think either of the gentlemen had intended to douse the guy, but though that needed to be pointed out. We're not the only ones that read these forums and don't need folks thinking we're looking for opportunities to disable others.

Shootin Chef
February 22, 2011, 11:50 PM
I didn't think either of the gentlemen had intended to douse the guy, but though that needed to be pointed out.

Why?
I've seen a lot of people jump to conclusions in this thread, as well as make assumptions and just go way far out there (such as the racism comments).

Why do we feel the need to call into question the moral fiber and decision making skills of our fellow members instead of giving them the support and productive advice you would expect to find in a group like this?
Why can we not give them the benefit of the doubt simply because they are part of this brotherhood, one that constantly comes under attack from outside sources and doesn't need internal ones fanning the flames?

Sport I apologize if it seems like I'm attacking you or pointing a finger at you, that's not the case at all, it just really seems that many people here want to pick apart the victim instead of empathizing and offering help that might otherwise not have been thought of.
The OP is clearly not trying to pick a fight, or improvise a flamethrower on the spot, or being a racist, or attempting to break the law, or pull a gun on a innocent bystander, or any of the other cockamamie "negative" connotations that have been inferred by some other posters.

He felt threatened and brought it to us, his brothers, to get our productive thoughts on the matter and how we can help him to avoid future issues of this nature. Don't we owe it to him to assist him to the best of our ability?

Just the way it's coming across to me is all,
Chef

Sport45
February 23, 2011, 12:30 AM
Post deleted by Sport45.

Carry on.

mnhntr
February 23, 2011, 12:41 PM
If you live in one of the communist states where you are unable to protect yourself with a firearm I would say to get a taser if legal or pepper spray. Also you should stay situationally aware which it sounds like you are, and maybe take a self defense class.

nefprotector
February 23, 2011, 01:03 PM
Wow! I believe that I would be carrying any damn ways. Just dont advertise it. Better safe than sorry. That or start exercising and a practicing with a good old long cane Hickory walking stick.

69MachOne
February 23, 2011, 01:21 PM
Bob.A Congrats for being aware of your surroundings & able to make assessments. Since you live & work in states that do not allow CCW, I would also recommend a tazer, Kimber pepperspray & a cell phone. Wolfeye, you keep going through life as you are & we will read about you being a victim some day. Nothing good comes from being politically correct.

Getting back to the point, I have carried now everyday for 23+ years & only drew my firearm 2 times. Granted, I'm not a small fellow but do go into less than desirable area's daily for work.

Along with ccw comes a great responsibility of when to use deadly force both legally & morally. I seriously encourage everyone to try to take at least one course in it or read books relating to carrying. Most colleges & local gun clubs or ranges have such offerings. NRA certified courses such as First Steps, Protection in the home, Protection outside the home & advanced Carry are just a few. If you want to drive a car, motorcycle, pilot a boat or fly an airplane you are required to study & take a test why not to carry a gun?

Nothing can totally prepare you for a life or death situation but being educated & proficient can be helpful if yourself in harms way. Do not allow a firearm to give you a false security either. Try to avoid confrontation if at all possible. Trying to not put yourself at risk should be paramount. Be alert & leave yourself an out always.

69MachOne
February 23, 2011, 02:51 PM
Bob.A Congrats for being aware of your surroundings & able to make assessments. Wolfeye, you keep going through life as you are & we will read about you being a victim some day. Nothing good comes from being politically correct.

Getting back to the point, I have carried now everyday for 23+ years & only drew my firearm 2 times. Granted, I'm not a small fellow but do go into less than desirable area's daily for work.

Along with ccw comes a great responsibility of when to use deadly force both legally & morally. I seriously encourage everyone to try to take at least one course in it or read books relating to carrying. Most colleges & local gun clubs or ranges have such offerings. NRA certified courses such as First Steps, Protection in the home, Protection outside the home & advanced Carry are just a few. If you want to drive a car, motorcycle, pilot a boat or fly an airplane you are required to study & take a test why not to carry a gun?

Nothing can totally prepare you for a life or death situation but being educated & proficient can be helpful if yourself in harms way. Do not allow a firearm to give you a false security either. Try to avoid confrontation if at all possible. Trying to not put yourself at risk should be paramount. Be alert & leave yourself an out always.

Triple8
February 28, 2011, 02:03 AM
I wouldn't let anyone enter my space and hang around without asking them a simple question "What's up?". I don't wait for surprises and I try not to be an a$$ but I agree showing awareness works in your favor most of the time.

If you suffer from poor health, you should carry an equilizer in order to feel safe if you need to go out at night.

Daugherty16
February 28, 2011, 11:23 AM
Interesting scenario - more so that it is real and affects a LOT of us guys hitting 50 and beyond. Women (those who don't walk around oblivious, anyway) likely experience this all too often. How can you prepare? Tasers suck, unless the target is wearing only a thin t-shirt. A medium jacket can deny contact points. Plus they require some time to deliver an incapacitating charge. A stun gun requires close personal contact. Bear spray is a big can - wear it on your belt outside your jacket, or you won't have it when you need it.

A cane can be a great defensive weapon, if you know how to use it. On an unskilled opponent, you may not even need to know how to use it - just beat the snot out of them. Put a lanyard on it to aid in weapon retention. Better still, carry a Sjambok - google it if you're not familiar. Nothing better for a beatdown and it's generally not legally considered a weapon - check your laws and ask your police if it would be legal where you live.

Still, a gun is the best equalizer that exists, and is especially empowering for the elderly, infirm, or female. I'm not that small, but i'd hate to take on a kid even my own size these days - i'm 50 years old and "aint what i used to be", even without any disability or medical conditions. Disparity of force is real, and getting more real every year. I would suggest you seriously consider the likelihood of a threat to your life, or that of your loved ones. If the threat is enough to make you carry a knife (the single worst self-defense weapon possible, suitable only for maybe Steven Segal) you need to seriously consider the pros/cons of carrying your pistol.

No, i do not advocate breaking the law. But a law that disarms the law-abiding and leaves them vulnerable to criminal attack is unjust and not working. Work through your elected representatives to get this law changed. If you decide that the threat isn't sufficient, or the consequences too severe if caught, then follow the advice about threat avoidance and alternative defense strategies. And let your electees know how you feel and what you want changed. If you decide to carry anyway, make absolutely sure you don't print and don't talk about it - to anyone. Oh, and avoid metal detectors.

You know the world is screwed up when you have to carry a weapon in order to defend against criminals, but doing so makes you a criminal.

Good luck.

Eagle0711
February 28, 2011, 12:09 PM
My response is different than most. I'm 66 and not in good health.

He is the predator, and you[we] are the prey.

Speak in a confident voice " hows it going " as you palm your open knife, and close the reactionary gap.

Now, the roles are reversed, you are the hunter and he is the target.

If he doesn't back off or show signs of non aggression, you must go into action.
A lot if gory damage can be accomplished with a knife.

Immediately call 911 for an ambulance for him and the police. Just make sure that the meat wagon is for him and not you [me].

Brutal? yes, but that is the way it works in the real world. You can think about moving to another state at a later date, or some other plan.

bob.a
March 1, 2011, 06:49 PM
I appreciate the informed and useful advice provided herein.

At the moment I'm not ready for illegal carry; what the future might bring is anyone's guess, but I don't want to risk a conviction while the courts seem to be moving in a direction toward loosened rules for defensive carry.

I have a nice blackwood stick on order, but dragging it in and out of a car during fillup might prove awkward. I'm thinking of a setup where I can clamp a can pf bear spray to the console, and just pop it off when I exit the auto; it's small enough to not be either a problem to remove, or to be an obvious threat to the general public.

As to pulling a knife and reversing the psychology of the encounter, it might be a little strong, and I'm not sure a 3" locking folder would do the trick. However, as it's always on my person, it would be a fallback if all else failed me.

As the population ages, this scenario will be played out on a much larger scale in future. It will eb interesting to see how our lawmakers respond to the needs of the elderly community. (I wonder if Florida's opening the door to easy carry a decade ago might have been prompted by this sort of consideration).

Thanks to all who have responded, and to anyone who might have something to add. We're all in this together.

Vanya
March 1, 2011, 07:19 PM
Speak in a confident voice " hows it going " as you palm your open knife, and close the reactionary gap.

Now, the roles are reversed, you are the hunter and he is the target.

If he doesn't back off or show signs of non aggression, you must go into action.
A lot if gory damage can be accomplished with a knife.

Immediately call 911 for an ambulance for him and the police. Just make sure that the meat wagon is for him and not you [me].
Going back to bob.a's original post, the man by whom he felt threatened was standing next to his car. Just... standing there.

I'm not going to say he wasn't a potential threat, but... I think if you attack someone with a knife just because he "doesn't back off," you may not be riding in the meat wagon, but you will be making a trip to the police station in the back of a squad car, and facing a charge of assault with a deadly weapon, or worse. I suspect you'd have a hard time convincing Officer Nice that you had to defend yourself with lethal force from a person who was standing on the other side of your car...

Seriously bad idea, IMHO.

brabham78
March 1, 2011, 10:58 PM
Bob, I don't think I can give you any advice, but I'll bet you could probably give me some. I think handled it as well as anyone in those circumstances could have. It certainly sounds like you had your brain fully engaged, and that's about all you can do in a situation like that. Glad the police passed by. That usually doesn't happen when you need it (no fault of the police).

It must really suck to live in those defense-free states. Glad I don't live and work there. Too bad your politicians feel it's necessary to leave their citizens twisting in the wind like that. What a shame.

Eagle0711
March 2, 2011, 03:23 AM
Vanya, I agree with you if he was just standing there, or even if he asked for change or something similiar. It was my understanding that the OP was threatened. That could be done by body language, threats, or obvious aggression on his part.

I get your point and it's well taken. I would have to have a reason to be in fear of my life to do this. The knife was the only weapon available, so why not use it if you have to. You would likely be charged, but if it were truely self-defense you would probably be ok in the end.

But I see no reason to get badly beat-up or worse by some preadator You know the old saying about " better to br tried by 12 than carried by 6".

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Best, Eagle

Dusty Rivers
March 27, 2011, 06:22 PM
Stand up straight. Give the Dirty Harry -I'm a mean s.o. b. look. Make him think you are a navy seal training instructor. He has no clue who your are except by your body language, so stand proud and bad. Get a car security system that beeps the horn when you press a button on the key ring. Accidentally press the horn beep button. Whoops. Keep pepper spray on your key ring. Learn how to use your keys as a weapon. Kick his as- if necessary. You are one bad - fully prepared to die,:mad: gas pumper!!

K96771
March 27, 2011, 09:31 PM
I can appreciate the dilemma. I live in NJ; another no ccw state. Fortunately, we in NJ not only have cheap gas, but we can't pump it ourselves. How about a solution never before expressed in a gun forum...move to NJ. Seriously, I'd consider myself lucky and would change my fuel buying habits so that I'm never again in such a spot. I've begun to carry a stout blackthorn walking cane when traveling to go along with a Kershaw Leek and a kubaton on my keychain. The mace spray sounds good too.

Eagle Eye
March 27, 2011, 11:16 PM
I've said this before and will repeat it here. Wasp spray is an excellent weapon. Yet it will not likely be outlawed anywhere since it is not (wink, wink) a weapon like a gun, knife, or pepper spray which some liberal agency may have outlawed. It sprays 25 feet or more in a heavy, wet, flow and will saturate whatever it hits. The can puts out a deluge of spray -- not an atomized mist as with most repellents. It will cause temporary blindness and a terrific burning sensation in the eyes. You could always justify having a can of it in the car and if you are pumping gas at an uncomfortable time or place, just slip the can into your pocket as you get out. If someone actually approaches you in a threatening manner such as with a weapon, just spray it continuously at his face and move out of the way or whatever he swings or points at you (gun, knife, club, fists).

Let me be clear. You do not spray him because he looks scary. You spray him if he actually makes a physically threatening move or statement. You must be "certain" that he is trying to harm you.

Then of course, while he is screaming and confused (and he will be), leave the scene. If you have not paid yet, stop at a safe place and call the police. They will understand and escort you back to pay.

ripnbst
March 28, 2011, 12:52 AM
Kind of OT

FWIW I had to walk 10 minutes in Houston at 10:30PM last night that I have never been to before in my life. I dont know if it was a bad area or not, but I had a folding knife in my hand the whole time, and no one was near me. Its called being prepared.

If you moved to Virginia that would be great but I don't think it would help you. You are still having to drive into MD and DC for work so the second you are 10 mins from your house and cross the border into MD/DC you are now carrying illegally all the same.

freenokia
March 28, 2011, 11:45 PM
If I were you, I would have stopped the pump, pulled out the nozzle with my hand still ready to restart the flow, and then engaged him.

That's what I would like think I would have done. In the future you could always stash a hatchet in close proximity of the passenger side rear window. When you pull up to get gas just let down that window and volla.


But I live in a shall issue state.

Reminds me of something similar that happend to me some time back. I think I'll start a thread about it.

BRE346
March 29, 2011, 11:05 AM
This thread is a tough one.

The described situation makes me think gun, and 911 in that order.

More gun laws just make it easier for criminals. Do you think that any gang-member pays any attention to them?

I'm sorry for Wolfeye. He's dreaming.

alabama
March 30, 2011, 12:21 AM
Buy a crownvic police interceptor all white or black with a spot light and push bar. That will make people leave you alone. If you dont want a cop car just buy a scream mask or dress like jason and wear a hockey mask. People will think you are crazy and leave you alone.

Glenn E. Meyer
March 30, 2011, 09:26 AM
Comedy Central - we ain't.

Closed