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View Full Version : Makers of 1851 Navy before the 50's


joyrock
February 20, 2011, 02:30 PM
My dad has a really old 1851 Navy (in 36 cal) brass framed, thats old. He got it from his dad, and it came from his brother, or some thing like that. My dad thinks it came from Spain, in the 40's. There are two stamped numbers on it. Under the loading lever there is a 70 stamped on the lever. And on the trigger guard there is a 47 stamped on it. Theres nothing on the hex barrel at all. A friend of mine ( a Civil War buff) told me that the South had made a lot of Colt copies. And he thinks it was made in the 1860's for the war. I can't seem to find any replica makers before the 50's. I'm at a loss who made it. It looks just like all the other old 1851 Navy's. Here are some photo's.

Hellgate
February 21, 2011, 12:52 AM
There should be spanish proof marks on the frame and /or cylinder. Look for markings on the bottom of the barrel under the rammer. Carefully remove a screw and check the thread pitch. If it is metric you have a european copy. It might be a defarbed copy or an original Confederate copy. I eagerly await more comments.

Hawg
February 21, 2011, 06:37 AM
The Italians started making them in 45. I don't know when the Spanish started. It should have a makers name or at least a logo on it somewhere. If it was a Southern pistol it should still be marked. To me it doesn't look like an original. Original Confederate guns were't brass. They were bronze with a heavy copper content.

Ben Towe
February 21, 2011, 08:47 AM
Would the 47 on the bottom be a date stamp? If not, it almost looks military, as big and bold as it is.

mykeal
February 21, 2011, 10:33 AM
Spanish proof date codes consist of one letter and one number, starting in 1927. However, I'm not confident they actually followed this convention as rigorously as the Italians, British and Belgians.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/SpanishProofDates.jpg

This is a Spanish set of proof marks:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/CVA%20Kentucky%20Pistol/89-371943/P2160115.jpg

the I2 at the end refers to 1989.

joyrock
February 21, 2011, 11:10 AM
The 47 and the 70 are the only stamps on it. There is nothing on the cylinder. When I get home I will check a screw and see what it is. Thanks. Ps: My dad told me that he has never fired it. And his dad has never fired it. But it has been fired a lot in the past.

Noz
February 21, 2011, 12:53 PM
This is a strange one. The front sight looks like a Remington pinched post?
the Colts of 1862 have the caliber of the gun stamped on the brass grip frame where it meets the steel of the frame. This should read 36-doesn't.

joyrock
February 21, 2011, 07:26 PM
I got home. And I forgot my thread pitch gauge (it's at work, in my tap and die set). But I took the back strap and the grips off, and there is a 70 stamped on the trigger frame under the grips. And I took the barrel off, and the cylinder out, and there is a 70 stamped between the nipples. And there is a 70 stamped on the back of the barrel, between the bullet plunger and the whatever the wedge goes into. There's also a 70 on the bottom of the wedge. But nothing on the caliber anywhere. Are all nipple threads the same?

Hellgate
February 21, 2011, 10:38 PM
" Are all nipple threads the same?"

Not on Italian repros. ASM & Uberti are 12X28 and the Piettas are 6X.75. I don't know the Colt thread pitch. I think 6X.75mm is the metric designation but that is a guess.

Fingers McGee
February 21, 2011, 11:42 PM
A friend of mine ( a Civil War buff) told me that the South had made a lot of Colt copies. And he thinks it was made in the 1860's for the war. I can't seem to find any replica makers before the 50's. I'm at a loss who made it. It looks just like all the other old 1851 Navy's.

The brass framed, octagonal barreled Colt copy made by the South during the Civil War was the Schneider and Glassick. Actual number made is a guess. Some gun experts put the number at 25, some at 50. None were ever bought by the Confederate government. Only 3 Schneider and Glassick marked revolvers are known to exist and one of them has an iron frame with a round barrel. I doubt very seriously that this is an original.

62coltnavy
February 22, 2011, 01:09 AM
WE NEED MORE PICTURES! Close up of the cylinder, close up of the frame. I am no expert, but to me this looks like a pretty old gun, given that patina, lack of remaining bluing and the like.

Hawg
February 22, 2011, 06:39 AM
but to me this looks like a pretty old gun,


Yeah 66 years or so is pretty old.:D

Hellgate
February 22, 2011, 12:32 PM
The cylinder looks older than the rest of the gun.

62coltnavy
February 24, 2011, 01:18 AM
Rumor has it that Augusta also made 51 colts with brass frames during the war, but I've only ever seen a steel framed one. Cylinders were plain. The shoulders on the backstrap were different, but the rest of the gun is a spitting image. Most of the southern guns I've seen were produced with round barrels-the Augusta gun is the only one, in fact, tht I've found with an octagonal barrel.

When I spokeof the age of the pistol, I was specifically referring to the patina of the barrel. All the guns I've seen that haveturned this color were more than a hundred years old.

I've read that a lot of bells in Atlanta and Augusta went to the manufacture of firearms. These guns, as I read elsewhere here, had high copper content.

Hawg
February 24, 2011, 05:43 AM
The barrel has no patina. Patina is like what you see on the cylinder. I've got guns made in the 50's and 60's that are that color. That frame is brass, not any sort of bronze.