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TheKlawMan
February 8, 2011, 08:54 PM
WalMart finally got a few boxes of 1 oz shells in, when what they had was 1-1/8, but which is really better for my purposes which is trap and I am going to try skeet. (Anything will cycle in my Remington 870.)

Both are 2-3/4" 12 gauge shells with 7.5 shot. While the 1-1/8 ounce load has a 3 Dram Equivalent, the 1 ounce has 3-1/4 Drams. I am guessing for trap or skeet they will shoot about the same, incuding recoil.

oneounceload
February 8, 2011, 09:30 PM
TKM, use the recoil calculator at 10X:

http://10xshooters.com/calculators/Shotgun_Recoil_Calculator.htm

Use about 40 grains for the wad and about 18 grains for the powder. You'll find as the velocity increases, the recoil increases exponentially.

If you have a Dick's or similar, try to find something no faster than 1200 fps and about 7/8 oz for the least recoil

3 dram is usually 1200, 3-1/4 is about 1250 or 1300

rc
February 8, 2011, 09:49 PM
Both work about equally well for skeet. There is a slight advantage using heavy loads for trap but there is a much greater difference between 20 guage and 12 guage than 1 and 1 1/8oz loads. #8s or 7 1/2 all work about the same for all but the most experienced shooters. 20s work fine for skeet and not so great for trap.

DiscoRacing
February 8, 2011, 09:50 PM
I use em all the time in Remington 1100 and Beretta AL-2... they work just fine.

TheKlawMan
February 8, 2011, 09:59 PM
I realize I am better off with 7/8 shotshells, but am trying to get by with cheapy WalMart for now, especially as it seems I am getting a handle on the recoil issue. Right now, I am trying to get a long barrel and am interested in seeing how the recoil feels with one.

Still, I realize that repetitive trauma will still take its toll, if only over a longer time period, and I should be going to lighter loads. Dicks out here doesn't sell ammunitiion. (I should check that. They don't sell guns, but I neve asked if they sell ammo.)

I couldn't find out the velocity as the 1 ounce stuff was in sealed flats and no one was around to open one. I am probably anal, but I don't rip into things without asking.

Anyway, my guess is the 1 oz stuff I was looking at has as much recoil as the 1-1/8 with the smaller dram equivalent.

oneounceload
February 8, 2011, 10:17 PM
TKM, it depends..............if I take a 7/8 load and run it at 1350 fps like a typical bunker load, the recoil can be as much or more than a slower 1 or 1-1/8 load - use the recoil calculator and see what works for you

tAKticool
February 8, 2011, 10:40 PM
You guys must be way smarter than me. All that bullstuff you just spit out never even crossed my mind... I regularly stock up on the 100-rd value boxes of Federal shots for my ammo collection/SHTF stock and also for blasting away at the indoor range to practice my general CQBing and Shotgun handling... I like the fact it's ~~$25 for 100 rounds (conveniently packed in 4 25-round boxes within the 100-round box if you need to subsidize in your stashing) and sheesh, it's cheap and I mean I like Federal as a brand, be it .22LR, 40 and 9, 12 gauge target loads OR Home Defense stuff...

Now as far as this ounce or that ounce for trap or skeet or whatever the funkdaddyflex ever, forget that, just gimmeh like 7, 7 1/2 or 8 and gimmeh the 100 rounds for like $20 bucks, then I'm golden for my stocking and blasting purposes. BTW, My Mossberg 930 SPX blasts this as fast as I can pull tehe trigger.

TheKlawMan
February 9, 2011, 12:01 AM
I went back to the WalMart for some things and this time got the velocity, 1290 FPS. The difference in recoil energy for the 1 ounce 1290 FPS is just 1 foot/lbs. less than the 1200 fps 1-1/8 oz stuff

Doyle
February 9, 2011, 08:15 AM
What frustrates me about the Walmart 100rd bulk packs is that they'll stock #8 shot in 12ga but only # 7 1/2 shot in 20 ga. I have a hard enough hitting clays with #8 20ga, but to handicap myself further with #7 1/2 means that I really have a hard time.

sirsloop
February 9, 2011, 11:29 AM
I had crap luck with my last two boxes of Federal 12 gauge from wally world. Over two rounds of trap I had a total of 9 squib loads!!!! I don't think they had powder in them... the primer popped and had enough force to send the wad 1/3rd the way down the barrel. The shot literally rolled out of the end.

In other words, I'll be buying the Winchester bulk boxes from there from now on.

bighead46
February 9, 2011, 11:34 AM
You are right about that difference between 7 1/2 and 8's. Off hand it doesn't seem that significant but having a few more pellets in the air can result in an extra hit now and then. My scores were definately better with 8's. Of course how a gun patterns with a particular shot is also all important- if your gun throws more 7 1/2's in a 30" circle then that's what you ought to use.

TheKlawMan
February 9, 2011, 11:35 AM
TaKticool, Glad to see you enjoying your SPX. The reason for my fascination with some of the differences in the loads available at WalMart is I am pretty clutzy and intially, at least, got pretty badly beaten up by recoil. That and being 63 I wish to avoid long term physical problems and one way to do that, in addition to learning to shoot properly with the right weapon, is to use ammo with less bite. I have a pump for my purposes. A gas operated semi such as the SPX tends to reduce much of the felt recoil and possibly down the road I may be picking up one for that reason, amongst others.

TheKlawMan
February 9, 2011, 11:42 AM
What sirsloop reports sounds pretty dangerous. Are you exagerating when you say the wad stayed in the barrel and the shot rolled out the end. Ii hate to think what would happen if a fully charged shell was fired with something left in the tube. Did you contact Federal?

oneounceload
February 9, 2011, 11:59 AM
Ii hate to think what would happen if a fully charged shell was fired with something left in the tube.

That results in a KABOOM - very bad ju-ju

sirsloop
February 9, 2011, 12:22 PM
totally serious... each time it happened I saw the shot pop out the end of the barrel. I pulled the barrel each time, and used a long stick to poke the wad out the back end. Once it was cleared I continued shooting. Anyways... its very important to STOP SHOOTING if you think you had a squib. I did not contact Federal, but it wouldn't be a bad idea. I still have 100 shells left from that 300rd purchase.

zippy13
February 9, 2011, 12:49 PM
I couldn't find out the velocity as the 1 ounce stuff was in sealed flats and no one was around to open one. I am probably anal, but I don't rip into things without asking.
Every shot shell container, be it an individual box or a flat, I've ever seen has always had the following info: Gauge, case length, shot size, and finally dram equivalent and/or velocity. Including the velocity is something that's relatively new. Since it's directly related to dram equivalent powder charge, it's really redundant. Some of the newer specialty loads, like low recoil, don't provide dram equivalent load. This also applies to some of the newer 1 ounce and 7/8 ounce loads. For the newbies not that familiar with the dram equivalent loads, here are some traditional loadings:
12-ga, 2-3/4" shells with 1-1/4 ounce of shot:
3-3/4 dram equivalent load - 1330 fps
3-1/2 dram equivalent load - 1275 fps
3-1/4 dram equivalent load - 1220 fps
3 dram equivalent load - 1165 fps

12-ga, 2-3/4" shells with 1-1/8 ounce of shot:
3-1/2 dram equivalent load - 1310 fps
3-1/4 dram equivalent load - 1255 fps
3 dram equivalent load - 1200 fps
2-3/4 dram equivalent load - 1145 fps
Low recoil - 1090 fps

12-ga, 2-3/4" shells with 1 ounce of shot:
3-1/4 dram equivalent load - 1290 fps
3 dram equivalent load - 1235 fps
2-3/4 dram equivalent load - 1180 fps

Here's what may be behind the marketing of the Walmart shot shells. (For those of you who are not reloaders, of the shell's components, the actual lead shot is the most expensive.) So, if you're selecting between a 1 ounce and and 1-1/8 ounce ammo, the 1 ounce should be cheaper all things being equal. So, to make it seem as though you're not getting ripped off with the 1-oz loads, they put in a little more powder to increase the velocity. Of course, this is exactly the opposite of what you're looking for if you want reduced recoil.

Bonus point: If you noticed that an increase of 1/4 dram equivalent increases the velocity by 55 fps, then you get a gold star for today. :)

TheKlawMan
February 9, 2011, 02:10 PM
Zippy. I couldn't get the velocity originally because the cartons were sealed and there was no one in the department. When I went back I was able to see a box and the velocity was printed on it. But the velocity was 1290 not 1255. Anyway, I got a gold star!

TheKlawMan
February 9, 2011, 02:14 PM
Sirsloop, I wonder if you can tall if any of the shells you still have are "squibs" without breaking into one. I imagine senistive scales could tell. Apparently you bought 3 bricks. Is that the same as a "flat". Did both of the expended two have squibs and are they all from the same lot?

oneounceload
February 9, 2011, 02:55 PM
Wally World "bricks" are 4-packs totaling 100 shells. Flats are 10 packs with 250 shells

BigJimP
February 9, 2011, 02:59 PM
All of which lead most of us to "reloading" because we long ago got frustrated by not being able to buy what kind of shells we wanted consistently - and to save a few bucks / which means we shoot more ....

Its pretty universally accepted these days ....that 1 oz of shot / in 8's ...in a 12ga is a very good load. Going to 7 1/2's just isn't giving you much / yes, they will break a target a little further downrange than an 8 ..../ but faster shells aren't better either ...and in general, most anything over 1200 fps - 1225 fps or 3 Dram is overkill. All you're doing by shooting these high velocity loads - is beating yourself up.

I shot 4 lines of Skeet / and 2 lines of Trap yesterday ....with a 28ga ....and 3/4 oz of 9's at 1200 fps ....and managed a 24 and a 25 at 16 yard singles Trap ( Modified choke) for Trap / and a 93 on the Skeet field ( I screwed in Skeet chokes for skeet). Not great scores ....but it wasn't the 28ga that was hurting me / or the 3/4 oz of 9's ...it was my eyes that gave up the 10 targets .... not the loads / or the gague I was shooting. I was breaking my targets almost as hard as the guys shooting 12 gagues..../ although I chipped a few too ....but when they were centered, they broke just fine.

Even in 12ga's ....a lot of my buddies are reloading 7/8 oz of shot ...for Trap, Sporting Clays, etc ... and they often beat me...

Jeremiah/Az
February 9, 2011, 11:37 PM
7/8 oz. is all I reload in the 12 & 3/4 oz. in the 28 gauge. They break targets just as well as heavy loads & those are both @ 1150 FPS. I'm too old to take the beatin' that I used to.

TheKlawMan
February 10, 2011, 01:13 AM
Tomorrow I am going to test 4 different loads and this time with something approaching a proper mount. It will be interesting to see what if any difference I notice.

From anticipated most to least recoil:
Federal Field & Target, 3 Dram, 1-1/8 ounce, 7-1/2 shot, 1200 FPS
Federal Game Load, 3-1/4 Dram, 1 oz, 7-1/2 shot, 1290 FPS
Winchester Super Target, 2-3/4 Dram, 1 oz, 7-1/2 shot,1180 FPS
Winchester AA Low Recoil Low Noise Target Load, Min Dram, 26 gram, 8 shot, 980 FPS

No. I am not gong to shoot up 4 boxes since it wouldn't be a fair test of the last 50 shots. I will mix 50 shotshells from all 4 types.

When I shot up a couple of boxes of the Winchester Supr Target a few weeks ago was when I got really messed up in the arm, but I was shouldering all wrong then. The last two times I have gone out there was hardly any residual aching and I was shooting the heavier Field and Target boxes from WM.

This is not a scientifically controlled experiment, but someone has to do it!

Follow up. I shot most of that stuff up, plus a box of Remington Club Target Loads. 1145 FPS, 1-1/8 0z of #9 shot pushed by 2 3/4 dram eqivalents. Anyhow, did one round of traps and for the first time shot skeet, 2 rounds, and I started hitting the birdy. It was literally a blast and the shoulder didn't have any problems. since the wife is concerned about the spending she wants me to choose between the extra barrel or a loading press. For the time being, I think I will go with the barrel and shoot the 3-1/4 Dram 1 ounce 7.5 shot stuff. Meanwhile, I save the better hulls whenever I shoot anything nice.