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jwalker497
January 30, 2011, 03:05 PM
My interest has been peaked in the 6.8spc cartridge and wanted to know if there are any factory rifles, not uppersor conversions, but complete factory ARs chambered in 6.8spc that are affordable (1000ish and under) who are also reliable and solidly built? What are the options? Ruger makes one, it's a 1500ish and I saw Rock River has one for about 1000ish. I don't know anything about these 2 in terms of reliability and performance or what else is out there?? I'm sure theres a nice afforable, solidly buil AR15 in 6.8spc - please educate me!! Thanks!

zoomie
January 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
http://ar15performance.com/6_8_spcii_ss_hunter_rifles
http://ar15performance.com/6_8_x_43_complete_rifles?b=1

Not sure why you would insist on a complete rifle, but if you decide that's not a requirement, here's more uppers.

http://www.bisonarmory.com/store_1618_mid.htm

You can get one of those + a complete lower for easily under a grand.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26740/Product/AR_15_LOWER_RECEIVERS
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=31719/Product/AR_15_LOWER_RECEIVER
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=19600/Product/AR_15_LOWER_RECEIVER

jwalker497
January 30, 2011, 03:17 PM
Actually does the upper also replace the carry handle? I saw a good deal on a colt A2 with the carry handle and wanted to know if I got an upepr in 6.8 would that be all I would need? Would there be any other parts needed? and mostimportantly wold the new upper replace the carry handle part of the A2?

zoomie
January 30, 2011, 03:22 PM
The upper includes the upper receiver (the part with the carry handle on the A2), the barrel, and handguard, and all the internal parts that hold those together. So yes, you'd replace the carry handle if you replaced the entire upper.

This is an upper: http://longrangesupply.com/images/bushmaster_m4upper.jpg
So is this: http://media.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/StaticPages/buildar-15/03pg30.jpg

Be careful on Colts, though. Their pin sizes may not be compatible with a new non-Colt upper.

You'll need new mags, too. http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/all-68.php

20thru45
January 30, 2011, 06:27 PM
Stag arms makes a complete 6.8 that I believe is $900 ish. They make a good AR and their big upside is their left handed ARs for the same price. I've got a Stag 4L flattop mil spec with chrome barrel that shoots under an inch with my handloads. Its never liked factory ammo much. I've put a 2X7 Redfield on it.

tjh
January 30, 2011, 07:44 PM
Buds gunshop shows they have a Double Star in 6.8 ,20in barrel , a2 stock for under $900 includes shipping . www.budsgunshop.com.

I want one as soon as I can scrap up the cash.

tirod
January 31, 2011, 09:25 AM
All you need for the 6.8SPC is the barrel, bolt, and magazine.

Many builders offer uppers complete, type of your choice. Most are A3 flattops, as the 6.8SPC is a hunting caliber, not paper. Optics are considered the best modern choice when hunting, red dot or low powered scopes preferred.

I'm building mine, it's using ARP as they are the leading 6.8 supplier and have the most advanced package, chamber, bolt, rifling, and parts. Comparing features and price, I got more for the money. Others charge for the bolt, cam pin, and firing pin, mine come with the barrel headspaced correctly, not just parts thrown in a plastic bag.

It's all in the details: the chamber needs to be 6.8SPC II, not SAMMI, which is actually too short a leade and can't use Tac loads or hot handloads. The rifling needs to be 1:11 or 12, not 1:10, again, its too high pressure. The land/groove ratio means ARP's special button rifling offers less friction, again, it allows hotter loads, which means it's safer with regular ammo and gives more FPS to boot. They also offer standard 4 groove 1:11 stainless for a lesser price. The barrels are not chromed, that's a full auto milspec and not good for accuracy, ARP nitrides the barrel, meaning it's rifled to dimension and the steel surface treated to resist corrosion.

You get an ITS 9310 superbolt, better alloy than milspec, with large radius milling that makes it stronger, a firing pin to fit properly, and a cam pin, too. With a complete upper or kit, you specify what you want. No premade burgers under a heat lamp, ARP makes to order.

6.8SPC II isn't a developed long range tack driver caliber, it's meant for bringing down 150 pound game on whatever number of legs it might have. Regardless, it's 40% more powerful than 5.56, legal for hunting in every state, and shoots just as well from a 16" barrel as any other. It's not a long barrel gun caliber, it was developed for the M4 14.5" as used by the military. Don't let bolt gun paper shooting methods gum up how it's supposed to be used, and it works well.

More info at http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php

Ticonderoga
January 31, 2011, 01:15 PM
Very important, DO NOT GET A SAAMI spec gun; ie a Ruger or any of the other "large" manufacturing companies. With these guns, you can only shoot 6.8 REM not the 6.8 x 43. This is like buying an AR that will only shoot .223 not 5.56.

If you get a SPEC II chambered upper/rifle, you can shoot ALL of the avail 6.8 ammo. Recommend you pay a visit to the 6.8 forums:

6.8 forums (http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php)

bedlamite
January 31, 2011, 01:34 PM
Very important, DO NOT GET A SAAMI spec gun

QFT. Also avoid 1:10 rifling, and M4 feed ramps are recommended..

ARP upper (http://ar15performance.com/) + Spikes Lower (http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/lowers-complete-lowers-c-104_114.html?zenid=a3e011fa618b3fe79ec30ca246058050) can be as low as $800+shipping, and quality is second to none.

Do not get these:
Ruger is SAAMI 1:10
RRA is SPC2, but still 1:10
Stag is SPC2, 1:11, but does not have M4 feed ramps.

trigger45
January 31, 2011, 05:24 PM
try dpms

globalsmack
January 31, 2011, 07:19 PM
Ask LMT what they think about SPCII specs. They said they are not changing to it. Unless you are hot loading your rounds it won't matter. SSA said the only issue they have had is with thier tactical loads marketed to LEO accounts.

There is a lot of hype out there. LMT makes a quality product and they stand behind it. If SAAMI is so bad why do they stand behind? Also the ideal twist rate is somewhere closer to 1 in 10.5. Some companies round this up to 1-11 and some round down to 1-10.

Unless you are hot loading your rounds or buying tactical loads get whatever you feel comfortable with.

jwalker497
January 31, 2011, 09:24 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. I have a few more questions

1) If converting form 5.56 to 6.8spc via a new Upper & Mag - is this conversion reliable? - Would it in any way be less reliable than a complete new rifle in 6.8?

2) Purchasing just an upper seems to be practically as expensive as purchasing a whole new gun, ie ar15 performance. Is there any reason to buy just the upper?

3) The ammo - any cheap places to get it online?

4) For a general defensive (non-hunting) Purposes, is there any real advantage of the 6.8 over the 5.56 or the 7.62x39mm?

5) The 6.8 mages, i take it feed perfectly fine in a rifle originally built for 5.56?

zoomie
January 31, 2011, 09:31 PM
1) If converting form 5.56 to 6.8spc via a new Upper & Mag - is this conversion reliable? - Would it in any way be less reliable than a complete new rifle in 6.8?
Assuming the same quality of parts and assembly, it'll be just as reliable.
2) Purchasing just an upper seems to be practically as expensive as purchasing a whole new gun, ie ar15 performance. Is there any reason to buy just the upper?
I think the upper from ARP is better quality than the rifles you're thinking of.
3) The ammo - any cheap places to get it online?
Cheap? No. There's been talk of a cheaper bullet/plinking ammo for a few years, but it hasn't come up yet.

http://www.ssarmory.com/
http://palmettostatearmory.com/68SPC-ammo.php

And of course Midway, etc.

4) For a general defensive (non-hunting) Purposes, is there any real advantage of the 6.8 over the 5.56.
Heavier bullet going faster = better terminal performance. Enough better to make a real difference in a defensive scenario? Who knows.
5) The 6.8 mages, i take it feed perfectly fine in a rifle originally built for 5.56?
Yep. As long as the mags and upper are quality. Avoid the C Products 17 rnd 6.8 mags - they're well known to not feed well.

Longdayjake
January 31, 2011, 10:44 PM
I am currently doing a little bit of testing of the 6.8. It is a fun little cartridge, but for most users I feel that an AR is 5.56 is more practical. Unless you are buying the gun strictly so that you can hunt with a heavier caliber than 5.56 I suggest that you abandon alternate AR calibers and stick with 5.56/.223.

It sounds a little like you would be looking at getting your first AR. There is a lot of "propeganda" out there about how awesome "alternative" calibers in the AR but unless you have a lot of money and a lot of time waiting for factory ammo you will be dissapointed with the 6.8. Though there are a lot of magazines out there telling you that you are not cool unless you own a 6.8, they don't tell you that you will be broke and you will only shoot it 1/10 as much as an AR in 5.56. But hey, you will be cool.

I own AR's in two alternate calibers (6.8 SPC II and 6.5 grendel). The ONLY reason I keep them around is because I handload and I use them for hunting, long range shooting, and personal ballistics testing. I like them, but for just plain old shooting I prefer my ar in 5.56 because it is cheap and it just works.

If you are rich and you don't care then by all means go for it, but if I was starting out with the AR I would go with the cheapest 5.56 I could build or buy. Unless of course you plan on using it in combat. Then I would buy a NOVESKE.

globalsmack
February 1, 2011, 08:21 AM
Advantages over 5.56

Plinking the holes are bigger. You can see them further down range.
Reported to excel out of shorter barrels compared to 5.56.
In offensive uses the larger round speaks for itself.
I have found shooting 200 yds to be an enjoyment over 5.56.

Cheaper rounds

I'm seeing stuff come in around $14 per 20 on the cheap end. Rumors of a polymer cased round are coming which will hopefully get us to the $.50 a round or less.

The cheaper rounds from SSA have disappeared from thier marketing schemes. May not happen now.

bedlamite
February 1, 2011, 08:39 AM
Realistically you should be reloading for this cartridge, then it's not much more than 5.56, and you can really take advantage of a better chamber and rifling. Most factory ammo is anemic, thanks to manufacturers like Ruger, Remington, and LMT holding it back with the SAAMI chamber.

tirod
February 1, 2011, 10:01 AM
If blasting dirt berms with a pickup truck load of ammo is the game, nobody chooses a commercial caliber, they go with taxpayer supported military surplus or some cheap import military caliber. It's just common sense.

If you plan to hunt, thousands of rounds a year, or even hundreds, aren't going to happen. There are millions of happy shooters using commercial priced ammo who don't flinch or whine about it, they buy .30-30 for the same price OR MORE than 6.8 ( I have,) .30-06 isn't cheap anymore either. In fact, most states don't allow FMJ for hunting anyway, so ammo costs are actually based on hunting rounds for hunting. Don't let the paper punchers lead you astray on that.

And to be fair, you won't find 6.8 much on the shelf, Academy is reported to be carrying it more in Texas, etc, be prepared to internet order it. It comes straight to your door like any other parcel - gun barrels, uppers, triggers, magazines, and firearms back from factory repair. No FFL or BoxMart needed.

With any major consumption of a caliber, reloading is recommended, and you can get into it for less than the price of a military grade red dot optic. It will save you money, you can find the time, like on those days it's snowing three inches an hour with a 30 mph wind. But I still have to go to work. :(

We'll, OK, I do need to efile, and I do have a Jeep, hey, lets go berm busting with that!

Longdayjake
February 1, 2011, 11:03 AM
My post was in no way a diss on the 6.8. I have just seen quite a few people that spend a lot of money on alternate calibers and then lose interest because it costs so much to shoot. Like I said before, if what you are looking for is a hunting rifle (paying $14-$20 per 20 rounds) then the 6.8 is a great option. If you are looking for something fun to shoot a lot that also does a great job at killing bad guys then the 5.56 is a better choice. Then again, some guys that I know compensate for various shortcomings by going bigger and that is all the excuse they need.