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Pvt. Pyle
January 27, 2011, 04:17 PM
I believe the state I live in, IA, allows open carry or is talking about allowing open carry. I have heard things about it. Now I am not saying that I would want to, but dressing around a gun in my eyes kind of seems a bit tough as I would almost have to change my wardrobe for summer. But carrying a gun always adds responsibility, and dressing around a means of safety and protection is something that goes along with a CCW.

Anyway...

Basically what I am asking, if you could open carry, would you?
Or do you think it would just escalate any situation you may be in that much faster?

chris in va
January 27, 2011, 05:06 PM
You can do a search for 'open carry' and get hours of reading.

In my experience, having OC'ed in VA and KY, it's generally accepted by the public but you *will* get attention from doing so, positive or otherwise. Being the introverted type that I am, I really don't like chatting with the general public about the practice so I CC most of the time.

I had an old-timer pat me on the back in WalMart for carrying. "We need more of you guys around" or somesuch.

A woman at a gas station got really nervous and asked if I was an LEO. Things went downhill from there, and I left. It was the only negative encounter I've had.

I am not familiar with Iowa's tolerance to OC, but suspect you may also have to deal with the infamous "man with a gun call" we're so fond of.

Ironically I'm a fair proponent of open carry and like to attend OC meet -n- greets at a designated restaurant whenever possible (got one Saturday actually).

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/

SatCong
January 27, 2011, 05:33 PM
In Tn we can, most don't.

Mike

Mr. James
January 27, 2011, 06:57 PM
I have open carried extensively throughout Virginia and in North Carolina for about five years now. Never a serious difficulty to report. Never a negative or hostile encounter with law enforcement. I did have the police summoned to a "man with a gun" call in Prince William County - the County officers merely explained the law to the complainant without ever contacting me at all (I was seated about 20 feet away).

Citizen reactions are largely non-existent. Most people do not notice it, believe it or not. Those that do often assume I'm in law enforcement. A few may sniff disdainfully, but no one has ever tried to argue with me or accused me of "compensating" or any other asininities. Those that actually speak to me are either (a) curious - didn't know it was legal, or (b) back-clappingly supportive.

As to escalating a situation, my experience has been just the opposite. True low-lifes tend to cross the street and get the hell away from me. Street criminals like low-hanging fruit - the distracted, the tired, the drunk, the physically weak. A confident, alert guy, aware of his surroundings and looking people in the eye - who also happens to have a pistol on his belt - is the antithesis of these. Of course, decent folk have nothing to fear from a lawful open carrier.

YMMV. By open carrying, I see myself as protecting a right by exercising it. I also try to act at all times as an ambassador, if you will, for responsible, legal self defense. Not everyone is interested in either of those roles.

Good luck and God bless

Bob James

Japle
January 27, 2011, 07:50 PM
Good for you, Bob. Florida will probably get OC this year and at first I wasn’t too interested. I’ve been carrying concealed since ’88 and never had a problem. The more I think about it, though, the more I agree with those who think OC is a good idea, if only to let the regular folks know that not everyone with a gun is going to shoot somebody.

In the movies and on TV, if a character has a gun, you just know he’s gonna shoot somebody. Otherwise, they’d have left the thing in the prop room. In the real world, that’s not the way it is and we (IMHO) need to get the word out.

An armed citizen is NOT a threat to normal people. BGs --- that's a different story!

Pahoo
January 27, 2011, 08:05 PM
In Tn we can, most don't.

I believe you will find that in time, that will be the case, in Iowa. I now understand that this is really not a new change and that those who could legally carry, could always do so. Last week I saw my first open carry at a local Gun Show. I noticed it right off but I suspect most didn't or paid little attention. Even the LEO's at the door paid little or no attention when he walked out. ..... :confused:

Shall issue in Iowa, is a new experience for all and time is needed in order to get use to it. Right now, Open Carrry would be more of a shock to most folks in Iowa on top of Shall Issue. .... :eek:

Basically what I am asking, if you could open carry, would you?


If and when I can, I won't and for a number of good reasons. ...... :)

Be Private, Protective and Safe !!!

DiscoRacing
January 27, 2011, 08:07 PM
We can open carry here... but I have a permit to conceal so I dont open carry. ...

... open carrying here always gets too much unwanted attention....typically leading to a long talk with the local police...nothing happens...just time wasted talking about rights that everyone knows you already have.

CorpITGuy
January 27, 2011, 08:17 PM
We're in the middle of trying to get open carry legalized in Arkansas at the moment. It's an uphill battle, I can tell you that much!

http://www.arkansascarry.com/dcra-q-aa.html

jimbob86
January 27, 2011, 08:27 PM
OC is legal here across the Muddy from you ....... I OC'd for awhile in places that had local ordinances prohibiting CCW ..... most people did not notice, to be honest. The few that did asked if I was "some kind of police". I explained the deal: I concealed it where I could, and OC'd where I could not conceal. In less than a year, the Legislature put the kibosh on local ordinances (except Omaha's- that took another year and another law, and threats of a lawsuit) .... so now I don't OC. No need to.

It is nice to know that since OC is legal, inadverdantly printing or allowing your gun to be seen is not a crime here ...... just unwise.

Jim March
January 27, 2011, 08:30 PM
Here in Tucson I do "98% concealed". I carry a big gun, OWB, crossdraw, very "high and tight" and covered by a light jacket. It might poke out once in a while but very few notice. The legality of open carry means this isn't a problem...and both comfort and fast access are exceptional.

I couldn't carry this way in Texas, Florida, etc.

Sefner
January 27, 2011, 08:33 PM
OC is legal in MI. I really like having the option. Say it's a hot summer day and I just need to go to work. I OC on the way to my car, disarm before walking into work, OC on my way into the apartment (or into the grocery store if I need). Or out and about, wearing my usually untucked, unbuttoned dress shirt that I use to conceal (carry OWB), and it's hot out. Take shirt off, only in a t-shirt, I'm still legal.

Also in MI if you have a CPL you can OC in PFZ (weird I know). Do that frequently.

Never had a bad interaction, 99.99999% of people never notice.

jimbob86
January 27, 2011, 08:53 PM
99.99999% of people never notice.

^^^
This.

Condition white is the norm.

Standing Wolf
January 27, 2011, 09:58 PM
Whew! I thought I'd somehow missed the open carry of the week therad.

Seriously: if you believe the Second Amendment means what it says, there's not much left to debate. We could, to be sure, debate whether open carry attracts criminals, though that would be an exceedingly small debate if it were conducted by people who actually carry openly.

Here's the real issue: are openly carried guns more or less likely to get dirty quicker than concealed?

Ryder
January 27, 2011, 10:18 PM
Here's the real issue: are openly carried guns more or less likely to get dirty quicker than concealed?


I think OC gets shot more often, so yes :D

Stevie-Ray
January 27, 2011, 10:22 PM
Basically what I am asking, if you could open carry, would you?I can and do, quite a bit.

smince
January 28, 2011, 07:24 AM
My thoughts on open carry:

I don't need to be seen with a gun to be non-selected by a BG. Attitude and how you carry yourself goes a longer way toward not having to use a gun than OC. In my AO, in my experience, concealed carry is a better tactic than OC. For myself. YMMV.

Really, I don't see the need to have a gun hanging off my belt for the whole world to see anymore. There is a reason I don't and it has nothing to do with being hassled by the police or losing a right. I don't want ANYONE to know I'm armed. Not the neighborhood gossip, not the thugs, not the everyday folks going about their business.

If I am going outside of the house at night, I do open carry but that's about it. If I am going anywhere else I would rather have my gun concealed.

I would only OC if that were the only legal way to carry.

I am sure that some of the criminal element will just pick another target, but some is not all. The visible gun will not make you the bane of criminals and solve all your problems. And most people are not as tuned in as they think they are.

Weapon retention is more of an issue with open carry. If you have had at least academy-level retention classes or a comparable private class, all the better. How many OC'ers have? Now how many do you see OCing in a $5 holster from the bargain gun show table?

There are a multitude of reasons for and against open carry. If that's your thing go for it. I simply prefer not to.

JerryM
January 28, 2011, 09:45 AM
We can, and I don't.
Regards,
Jerry

Brian Pfleuger
January 28, 2011, 09:58 AM
I probably wouldn't do it very often, if at all. I would like to be able to carry a gun in a way that accidental exposure wouldn't get me arrested though.


The discussion about the tactical differences between open carry and concealed has been had over and over again. No one can show that there is any difference beyond opinion.

twobit
January 28, 2011, 10:24 AM
Texas is approaching 500,000 current CHL (concealed handgun licenses). I predict Texas will, within a few years, have open carry with the same licensing as now required for the CHL (just call it a Handgun Carry License).

Many of the CHL licensees will probably opt to continue to conceal most of the time, but it will ease the fear of their gun being accidentally seen. The public should be educated that these people have walked among them for years, armed, without issue, and that now some of them will be seen with exposed handguns. I believe that once they understand that half a million of their fellow Texans have had the guns for years, the shock will be less and it will be a non issue.

AcridSaint
January 28, 2011, 10:31 AM
Off and on for 8 years, never a problem in NC. I don't buy into many of the pro-OC arguments, but I do have personal political reasons for doing it.

PawPaw
January 28, 2011, 10:34 AM
A lot of us Fudds carry openly quite a bit, depending on the season. If I step out of my pickup truck, throw a rifle over my shoulder and go hunting, is that not open carry?

If I need work done on my shotgun and I drive to the gunsmith on Main Street, park four doors down and carry my shotgun to the shop, is that not open carry?

I don't see the big deal.

Skans
January 28, 2011, 12:56 PM
I'm not into open carry, but I don't care if others do.

dawg23
January 29, 2011, 08:02 PM
As others have said -- in my state (LA) we can open-carry. Few do. I certainly don't.

Those who espouse open-carry can often offer some reason why they think it's a good idea. Their reason usually related to the concept of "educating the public" or that of "exercising my rights." I can think of better ways to do either of these.

I won't reiterate them here (because this has been beaten to death on multiple occasions), but suffice it to say that there are many good reasons to keep your weapon concealed.

Presuming one has a permit, concealed carry is (tactically) a no-brainer.

SauerGrapes
January 29, 2011, 09:53 PM
I OC when the weather get warm most of the time. I've never insited a panic or been approach by LE. I have had some educational conversations with a few people. Some have advised me I could be arrested for brandishing a firearm. LOL I had to educate them on the law in Pa.

Most people are too wrapped up in their own lives to worry or even notice I'm carrying a gun. I think most people just think I'm a LEO or something if they do notice. I think you'll find most people really don't care. The ones that would, probably don't like anything and just like to bitch about everything...:p

langenc
January 29, 2011, 10:21 PM
... open carrying here always gets too much unwanted attention....typically leading to a long talk with the local police...nothing happens...
from post #7

what is there to talk about?? Maybe what you carring and where do you shoot??

JerryM
January 29, 2011, 11:13 PM
{A lot of us Fudds carry openly quite a bit, depending on the season. If I step out of my pickup truck, throw a rifle over my shoulder and go hunting, is that not open carry?

If I need work done on my shotgun and I drive to the gunsmith on Main Street, park four doors down and carry my shotgun to the shop, is that not open carry?}

Nope, not in the everyday meaning of the words. However, consider it as you will, but I doubt that is what the OP meant.

Regards,
Jerry

Water-Man
January 29, 2011, 11:55 PM
I believe that many who are allowed to do so don't, despite all their bluster about 2A and constitutional rights, because they're uncomfortable about it or afraid someone will take their gun away from them.

To each his own.

Puntmefar
January 30, 2011, 04:12 PM
Pyle I can open carry in KY. but rarely do and never away from my house or atleast in veiw of my house. Reason being is simply this I have had a person decide they were going to threghten to take my gun and shoot me in the ally behind my house just because he could see it. Now in fairness he was drunk but in my mind that just means he was more likely to do something stupid. In the end I changed his mind without a physical confrontation but it tought me regardless of your suroundings the sight of your gun can invite trouble..... the who is more hard core mentality. As for changing your normal dress habits you really dont have to in the winter a sweat shirt does the job in the summer a short sleve button up untucked does fine just buy a size or 2 larger than you normorally would I have several I bought just for concealing my gun. I carry outside my pants at my 3'oclock and just let my top shirt hang over it. And I carry a full size not a compact or sub, easy access and out of sight

FireForged
January 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
In my neck of the woods, there isnt anything that prohibits open carry but its just not what I want to do. I prefer to carry concealed as it goes better with my idea of self defense strategies.

mjbskwim
February 4, 2011, 03:19 AM
We seem to have a lot of discussion about this up here in the Northwest,with me saying there is a tactical disadvantage to OC.
One now the bad guy knows you have a gun and can formulate a plan to get it.
There is always someone faster than you that may see the gun as theirs
And the cops always seem to want to talk to you about OC and don't seem to actually know all the laws pertaining to OC
It scares the locals and makes you(and the rest of the gun community) look like "Cowboys"

Personally,I don't need to show off the fact that I have a gun on my person.That isn't anybody's business but mine,as long as I am doing it legally and safely.

boredom
February 4, 2011, 01:44 PM
its perfectly legal to open carry in NC, but i think its silly.

WW2
February 4, 2011, 08:36 PM
It is legal to open carry. However, you must comply with the following:

1. The gun must be unloaded. No rounds in the Chamber, and no rounds in the magazine.
2. It used to be that the gun was considered loaded if you had a live round anywhere on your person. Fortunately, the courts have decided that is not the case and you can have loaded magazines on your person, but not in the gun.
3. You cannot carry within 1,000 feet of a school. Now, if you have ever looked at a map of your town and drawn a 1,000 foot circle around ALL of the schools, you will find that 98% of the area is a no-carry zone.

So, I only carry on my property. Open carry in the front yard gets too much attention, so CC is the way to go. But, I live withing 1,000 feet of an elementary school and a high school so I cannot set foot off my property while carrying. CCW is impossible to get in Riverside County CA so I must go about armed with just a 3 inch folding pocket knife.

California laws allow carrying unloaded, locked guns too and from your car and to the range so no problems there. I always carry my guns in locked cases and the ammunition in a seperate locked case and put these in the trunk of the car. Since LEOs can inspect the guns if they stop you (no warrant needed, the law states they have the right to inspect any weapons you are carrying) I make doubly sure to comply with the locked, unloaded, and ammunition in a seperate locked case provisions of the law.

KenpoTex
February 5, 2011, 07:06 PM
OC is legal in MO (except in certain municipalities)...

That said, I don't do it 'cause I think it's dumb to advertise (regardless of the fact that most people are oblivious).

If one wants to open carry, so be it...but I think it would be STUPID to open carry if you don't have a decent level of competence in weapons-retention. Unfortunately, I think most OC'ers would be easy-pickings for someone that really wanted to get their gun.

DonR
February 12, 2011, 04:58 PM
I will add my two cents & say I think it may be a bad idea in most case. Even if you can handle yourself well, a blitz attack from behind is hard to defend against. Why advertise it. Also, there is the issue of why set yourself up to make comments like I have heard addressed at some oc’s like that person acts like a “cop-wanna-be”, “cowboy”, or “thinks he is Doc Holliday” and some of those comments. I lived 40 years in Iowa. In the country, you are probably good to go. If you OC in Iowa cities a few times, I would expect you will thinking more highly about carrying concealed before too much time passes. In a really bad area (not most places in Iowa), it could get you shot…..

10mmAuto
February 12, 2011, 05:05 PM
Aside from the advantage of nobody knowing you're armed with concealed carry, open carry gets you funny looks. Unless you're just going to the woods or on your way to shoot, no sir.

Nnobby45
February 12, 2011, 06:03 PM
{A lot of us Fudds carry openly quite a bit, depending on the season. If I step out of my pickup truck, throw a rifle over my shoulder and go hunting, is that not open carry?



No. Open carry, as a general subject, referrs to carrying pistols. Also as far as many laws are concerned.

It's already established that you'll be hunting with a rifle that isn't stuffed down your pants, and that it will be visible.:p

What would happen if you walked into a store with an "open carried rifle"?

BGutzman
February 12, 2011, 06:07 PM
WW2 sorry nothing against you or any other 2A believer who lives in Cali but I simply cannot tolerate such bogus stuff. If I were in your shoes I would pack up my life and move elsewhere.

This is exactly the reason why I try to not buy any products from Cali, sometimes it cant be avoided and sometimes you have no way to know but I make a effort to do so.

Its not that I don't want to support you WW2 and people like you but for the rest I cant even imagine how they live.

Sorry it isnt different, but thats whole system is totally unacceptable.

aarondhgraham
February 12, 2011, 06:09 PM
Our new governor here in Oklahoma has an A+ grade from the NRA,,,
So when the person who initiated the open carry bill that Brad Henry vetoed reintroduces the bill,,,
I hope it gets passed just because it makes the brandishing laws a completely moot point and I won't need to worry about printing.

It is up to the individual DA as to how strictly the brandishing laws are interpreted and enforced,,,
In Payne county if your gun prints through your clothes and a cop sees it,,,
Our DA has instructed them to cite you and he pushes it hard.

As you can imagine,,,
This sucks.

An open carry provision will take this accidental showing of your gun off the law enforcement radar.

So, I hope we get it for that reason alone.

I doubt I would carry openly though,,,
I prefer the strategy of being invisible in pubic.

Aarond

HeroHog
February 12, 2011, 06:15 PM
I can and do. Never had any issues and in my case, it makes sence for me. In a wheelchair, access to a hidden gun can be problimatic!

http://herohog.com/images/icons/speedyswheels.jpg

Notice the P11 sticking out of the top of my bag.

http://herohog.com/images/guns/EDC-OC00.jpg

Ben Towe
February 12, 2011, 06:27 PM
Open Carry would be fine... if more people did it. If out of 100 people in a restaurant, fifty were open carrying then it would be unlikely that you would be picked to take the first bullet in a potential robbery. Of course who is going to rob a joint with fifty armed people inside? But if you're the only one? Might turn out badly. Of course there are exceptions, such as wheelchair bound, etc.

Caboclo
February 12, 2011, 06:52 PM
As another poster said, opencarry.org is where you want to be. Personally, I do OC, partly as a political statement and partly because it's difficult to conceal a 5" double stack. You get a few stares, a few positive comments and a very rare negative comment. I was asked to leave one establishment by someone who seemed to think guns were illegal. I didn't bother arguing with him; there are plenty of other places competing for my business.

Re the argument that it makes you a target for the BGs, a smart BG will leave you alone and a dumb BG will try to take your gun. Since you can't choose your BG, I consider that argument to be a wash.

Re retention, I'm paranoid about losing my gun regardless of whether or not it's concealed. Therefore, I carry cross-draw in a retention holster. I like cross-draw because it keeps the gun in front of me, in my field of view and between my arms. It's also the most comfortable position, IMO.

Just be absolutely certain what your local laws are; they can change quite a bit from state to state. Ie, AK requires guns to be concealed in restaurants that serve alcohol, and MT requires them to be open. Go figure.

Crazy88Fingers
February 12, 2011, 09:15 PM
Last time I checked OC is still illegal here in Florida. If it wasn't, I wouldn't OC anyway. I wouldn't want criminals to know I have a very desirable $500 piece of metal strapped to my hip.

Also, my limited encounters with Miami law enforcement have failed to inspire confidence, so I'd be concerned about being shot or tased by cops.

youngunz4life
February 12, 2011, 09:32 PM
yes, I am for open carry and think its cool. I prefer to carry concealed myself

Single Six
February 12, 2011, 09:36 PM
The state in which I reside allows open carry for those who don't have a CCW license. In fact, we had OC long before we had CCW. I choose to not open carry, unless I'm taking a stroll through the woods [we do have black bears]. It's just my personal choice, and I see nothing wrong with going open...but I do think that there is at least potential to needlessly alarm the gun-ignorant public by doing so. It seems to me that OC tends to scare the sheeple, some of whom may be "on the fence" when it comes to 2nd Amendment issues, and a guy [or gal] openly totin' iron may well push them in the direction of Sarah Brady. In my LE employment, I've only encountered 1 guy doing OC...no problem; it's legal, so I saw no need to say anything to him about it. Anyhow: I see nothing wrong with it, I just don't think it's necessarily wise to do so, legal or not. But that's just me.

berettaluv83
February 12, 2011, 09:54 PM
I'm still on the fence, but would like to know that I could open carry
If I wanted to there are just times when it would make thing much
Easier. Anyone know if its legal in washington state? I know it freaks
People out when you open carry but doesn't everyone think that the guy with
His gun hidden should be the guys law enforcement should be
More concerned about. No one turns there back on a guy with a
Cannon visible on his hip. I would rather know the guys next to me has
A gun it would keep me from cutting in front of him at the check
Out counter of the grocery store. :) not knowing really does not make
One safer. Ignoranced doesn't change the fact that about 1 in 10 people
You pass everyday has a pistol.

bikerbill
February 13, 2011, 01:16 PM
I've seen a lot of discussion about it here in TX. I have a CHL and carry concealed whenever I'm out of the house ... as for your question, I might try OC once or twice if it's allowed, but I prefer that my gun be concealed, mainly for the element of surprise if I ever need to use it ... IMHO, having it hanging on your hip could tempt the BG to deal with you first, before you have the opportunity to bring it to bear ...

smince
February 13, 2011, 03:30 PM
If I wanted to there are just times when it would make thing much
Easier.If you want easy, just drop a J-frame or Keltec .32 in your pocket. Don't get much easier than that. Many (too many perhaps) do just that.

It's not that big a bother for me to put on my G19 and spare mag (concealed) just to run out to the store myself.

ChileVerde1
February 13, 2011, 04:31 PM
I prefer to be discreet, except here where I have some anonymity, in all aspects as it relates to my firearms, style of carry, what I own, and where I store them.

I do this at work too when working "plain clothes" details (different than undercover) even though I don't have to. I feel it's a tactical advantage. Going unnoticed may give you the initiative in certain confrontations.

L_Killkenny
February 13, 2011, 06:57 PM
Iowa's new law allows carry, open or concealed, with a permit only. No permit, no carry of any sort.

The open carry clause is helpful. It makes it so I don't have to have my gun completely covered to be compliant which for all my guns is tough due to size. I'm not gonna go slap on a gunfighter rig to carry a Ruger SA but I'm not gonna go outta my way to make sure no part of the gun or holster never shows either.

LK

Nnobby45
February 13, 2011, 07:04 PM
I have no problem with laws that allow for open carry. It's legal in my community--Northern Nevada.

It doesn't, however, fit into my carry philosophy that I be just an unnoticed 'ol geezer that no one pays attention to. I think Clint Smith refers to him as "Gray Man".

For those of you who wish to be the center of attention, even to the point of making political statements, then go ahead. I've been armed around friends and acquaintances for over 15 years, and they have not the slightest clue. I'm going to keep it that way.

If having all eyes on you in restaurants, convenience stores, walking down the street, etc. is your bag, then I can live with that---thanks for making me even less noticeable.:cool:

egor20
February 13, 2011, 07:12 PM
I open carry on my property but as soon as I leave it I throw on a coat or a long shirt when I leave, We have OC/CCW in Virginia, so I don't worry if it prints, but then most people in my area are used to seeing guns, I just don't like to advertise.

ncpatriot
February 13, 2011, 07:37 PM
it's perfectly legal to open carry in NC, but I think it's silly.

Check out the statute, "going armed to the terror of the public". OC in NC is very dangerous out in the general public. You could walk down a street, minding your own business, with a gun on your hip. Eat lunch, buy things, drop off your cleaning, etc. All is well, no problem. You turn a corner & some bedwetter sees you. She shouts "he's got a gun!". People panic, you are under arrest. The statute is very subjective. I have only OC in public twice. A jobsite involving a copper theft, 2 of them in fact. BAD neighborhood with thugs all around. I OC'd there but had owner's permission, generally didn't leave the yard or go to anyone else's house. I did have to park on the street some & carried no further than that.

I sometimes see store owners OC. They are relatively safe, their property & no one has to shop there that's offended. I used to see fishermen OC around lakes & rivers, haven't seen that in a long time now. Hunters sometimes OC in the woods.

I think OC is a good thing, along with CC. Each should do as he thinks best. But at this time, don't try to carry OC in general public here. TROUBLE.

boredom
February 14, 2011, 10:43 AM
"gattop" is pretty silly, and completely up to the officer to determine if you are arrested or not. i live about 10 minutes from downtown raleigh (glenwood/nc state area) and a few people i associate with have been stopped because they were legally open carrying. now in order for the charge to actually stick, you must be considered a danger/threat to yourself and/or others, but its a thin line that id never want to cross. CC is the way for me.

chucky222
February 14, 2011, 01:14 PM
theres an OC movement here in AL,
but once you get in a vehicle you must have permit.
Cant OC on horseback.
Cant OC on a bicycle.
Can be asked to leave the premises, disturbance, refusal = trespassing.
BG would consider you first threat.

So, FWIW, i guess its fine if you want to walk everywhere you go.
Not to mention, IMO, it might cause a sense of Commando-Mode-On.

I'd rather stick with covert OPs. When your weak, appear strong, when your strong, appear weak.

Bulldawg55
February 14, 2011, 01:42 PM
Always carry, never tell!

ncpatriot
February 15, 2011, 12:16 AM
Always carry, never tell.

I generally agree. That jobsite where I OC'd was my only exception. There, I wanted it known I was armed. Carried crossdraw, where not all that obvious to a casual passerby, but OBVIOUS to someone approaching to bum money or shoot the bull.

Rufus T Firefly
February 15, 2011, 12:29 AM
Legal is legal, but do you want people screaming "gun" when you carry?

I heard a good story from a buddy at the store he works at. He was pulled over for a taillight on the way back from a training session he did.

He has a PTC. Open or Concealed in our state. He put his hands on the door in plain site for the Officer and told the Officer he had a concealed handgun. They dispatched another squad to handle the situation.

He was not obligated to let the officer know about the gun in our state. He was just trying to be a "good citizen".

I personally would not open carry. You never know what wimpy person will be freightened and start yelling.

I don't know your laws, but good luck if you open carry. Maybe that will change with public opinion. Just remember the current President won on trying to get more gun control.

mellow_c
February 15, 2011, 01:49 AM
I support open carry. I agree with Mr.James in Post #4... and I second everything he said! :)

Tom Servo
February 15, 2011, 02:01 AM
Just remember the current President won on trying to get more gun control.
Actually, he won on many factors. His past support for gun control was very, very far down the list. In fact, he practically fell all over himself voicing his "support" for the 2nd Amendment on the campaign trail in 2008.

That said, this whole shebang is taking place in "tactics and training." To that end, I'd like to suggest that if you plan on carrying openly, you really, really, really need to have a secure holster, and you need to get some training in weapon retention.

No, I can't cite a case in which a civilian's gun was lifted from him, but would you really want to be the first?

HawkeyeNRAlifer
February 15, 2011, 10:58 PM
Although the press here wants to make it sound as if every joe will be carrying openly now that we have the "shall issue" law in effect, it's been the law for years. Our's has been a permit to carry, not just carry concealed. I don't carry openly and have seen only a couple of people do so over the years. I, like an earlier post, would rather not have to explain or discuss the merits of exercising my rights to a nervous nellie or a discombobulated liberal.

Aguila Blanca
February 16, 2011, 12:07 AM
Basically what I am asking, if you could open carry, would you?
You betcha.

mcintosh
February 16, 2011, 01:51 AM
I CC, but OC or CC it's the Carry part that matters.

I have a few questions for those who oppose OC:

Do you present yourself as weak (an easy target trying to blend in with the other easy targets) or do you move confidently, making eye contact, like someone who knows how to handle themselves?
If the latter, do you believe that the same thug who is aggressive enough to target an OCer would pass over you? Why?

You can't have it both ways.
You can't be an invisible "gray man" who blends in with the sheep (to the point that you'd get to use your 'element of surprise'), but at the same time, look like you have your stuff together enough that you aren't targeted as a threat.
Any criminal who is aggressive enough to shoot an open carrier first is also going to shoot ANYONE who looks like a plausible threat first, gun or not.

Would it not be better to present a strong enough deterrent that they simply decide on their own that it's not worth it?

Many OCers report that they get asked whether or not they are law enforcement. Would the thugs not ask themselves this question as well? I am in no way advocating that citizens masquerade as LEOs, but how many of your garden variety street punks are willing to test their mettle against what they believe to be a cop?

I suppose it comes down to which scenario you're preparing for.
If it's the common mugger/7-11 robber, I would think that an armed presence (be it police, security, or OC citizen) would be enough to make them reconsider.
If it's the crazed, drug addled, maniac of typical SD related gun lore, how do you know he won't target you first anyway?

hondauto
February 16, 2011, 07:40 AM
OC is legal here in CO(except denver itself)
I am in favor of OC,but CC is much better.
I don't like hassles and people are stupid.
So...CC dor me all the way
I do OC when in the woods camping or hunting though.

sectshun8
February 16, 2011, 07:49 AM
I recently moved from VA, where I occasionally open carried a .38 revolver I had, to Colorado. Unlike what the previous poster said, OC is NOT completely legal in CO. Unless your outside most city limits, OC is a big no-no. I live in Golden and CCW is the only legal way to carry... but hey, you're still carrying ;)

If I could OC here, I would, all the time... it's just not an option.

Dr_Rich
February 16, 2011, 10:27 AM
My buddy who is really into gathering information...was telling me that here in Fl, they're talking about changing the rules a little bit about Concealed carry. From my CCW training class, they said your firearm must not show is any form or fashion. But being in Fl, 9 months out of the year, that can be a challenge with light cloths.

I wear baggies (board shorts, surfer shorts) an some form of tank/sleeveless shirt in the summer. This can prove to be difficult for concealing anything around ones waist. But the supposed new rule will allow small 'flashes' under those circumstances or minor printing. I really can't give my 100% approval on this, as I've not looked into it myself. But that would make for a sweet exception :)

But I know that strapping on your 6-shooter and boots would most likely be out of the question :D

jcsturgeon
February 16, 2011, 10:38 AM
Well, I am not a wimpy person, I like and respect guns, own several and shoot often... but I get nervous when I see someone open carry.

Why?

Well, IMO open carry offers you no tactical advantage whatsoever. If there were an active shooter situation you would most likely be the first person to die and if not... the first suspect when cops show up.

Open carry is really just a way to pound your chest and flaunt your opinions on the second amendment and gun control in general. Shooters and non-shooters alike are turned off by the idea of someone open carrying, so not only is it not a tactically sound option but it does damage to the cause.

So... when I see someone open carry I automatically assume they just aren't that bright, and I know they have a gun, which isn't a good combo.

WW2
February 16, 2011, 06:13 PM
I agree with you 100%.

I owe double on my house compared to what it is worth. So, as soon as I find a buyer I plan on moving to a safer, gun friendly state.

chucky222
February 16, 2011, 09:44 PM
Well, let me tell you this! Buddy, if i wanna OC dad-gum-it I AM! AND, I'm also going to WALK everywhere I go. BUT I gotta gun though! SO There! Time for me to go down to the shoe store and get some new SHOES....
caint ride no horse, caint ride no by-sickle, but I gotta gun, dad-gum-it...

hondauto
February 18, 2011, 09:36 PM
chucky.. You are silly..
I don't advocate open carry unless it's in the woods.
I'm ok with someone OC'ing but it makes me nervous,because I am CC'ing
In general population OC is not necessary in my opinion.
It only makes people uncomfortable and serves little purpose..
In the woods,yes protection from the 4 legged critters who might harm is necessary.

Tom Servo
February 18, 2011, 10:35 PM
I am in no way advocating that citizens masquerade as LEOs, but how many of your garden variety street punks are willing to test their mettle against what they believe to be a cop?
Enough that it's a serious problem (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11/robert-farago/washington-post-more-cops-killed-by-their-own-gun-than-straw-purchases/). Many police officers are shot with their own weapons.

Those officers had training in retention. They had hand-to-hand combat training. They had good holsters.

I've seen some of the folks who open carry. They don't have any of that. If someone mistook one of them for an LEO, then it'd be a bad scene.

troy_mclure
February 18, 2011, 10:44 PM
Enough that it's a serious problem. Many police officers are shot with their own weapons.

Those officers had training in retention. They had hand-to-hand combat training. They had good holsters.

and most of these officers are attempting to subdue/restrain a suspect. which the average OC'er will not be doing.

i open carry frequently. have never had a problem. but have had many good conversations about my states firearms laws.

KenpoTex
February 19, 2011, 02:56 PM
and most of these officers are attempting to subdue/restrain a suspect. which the average OC'er will not be doing.
Most maybe, but not all...I remember a story from just the last year or so where an officer was targeted specifically so that the BG could get his weapon.

Aside from that, while a OC'er or CCW'er may not be trying to effect an arrest or to subdue/restrain someone, there are a lot of incidents that start as an empty-hand fight. If one's weapon is just hanging out there for all the world to see, most CC/OC'ers aren't going to have the skill to retain it (or to fight effectively in the first place).

i open carry frequently. have never had a problem. No one "has a problem"...until they do.

smince
February 19, 2011, 03:35 PM
No one "has a problem"...until they do.But he won't, seeing as how he has that magic talisman hanging on his belt...

youngunz4life
February 19, 2011, 10:05 PM
I think that is too over the top to condemn every OC as in saying they aren't bright as an example. Gunshop owners behind the desk OC sometimes, and I have no problem with that. Advocates who deal with the laws and the furtherance of gun rights(the real workers) OC, and this can be good. Also, people OC in their yards, woods, wherever. you might not have been talking about that, but OC has its place like it or not. I myself CCW, but I respect others that OC also.

pmeisel
February 19, 2011, 11:04 PM
There are way too many different circumstances for a generalized answer to this question. For some places and people it makes sense. People should think about whether that is their situation.

Madball6
April 3, 2011, 12:05 AM
I firmly believe in OC in certain situations, I also believe in retention training, a BG would be hard pressed to capture my weapon just because he fancied it. Not trying to be an internet tough guy, but a few months of juijitsu training and im pretty sure I can get a common BG to "tap out" Not to say if a trained martial artist wanted to try and take my gun he couldnt succeed, but i know enough to erase 99.9% of the population from being a threat, and OC in my opinion is preventative medicine. Take it to the extreme, if EVERYONE carried, no one would break the peace.

catnphx
April 3, 2011, 12:23 AM
Arizona guy here and I support OC, CCW, and all 2nd Amend rights. That said, I don't like to open carry because it makes many feel uncomfortable and I'm not into that. It also takes away any chance of surprise with the BG.

I have no problem when others open carry and I actually like seeing it. But it's just not my thing, especially since I have kids and all their friends are around and I just don't want to get into any discussions about it with their parents.

Webleymkv
April 3, 2011, 03:57 PM
Here in Indiana, a LTCH (license to carry a handgun) makes no distinction between open or concealed carry so both are, by default, legal. In my experience, open carry is uncommon though not unheard of. Personally, I choose to carry concealed for a variety of reasons but mostly because I just like to draw as little attention as possible. That being said, I support the open carry movement and have no problem with those who choose to carry that way, it's just not my cup of tea.

FireForged
April 3, 2011, 04:54 PM
I dont OC simply because I do not believe that it offers me any realistic SD advantage to broadcast to the everyone - that I am armed.

Madball6
April 3, 2011, 11:14 PM
So you dont think there is value in the deterrent factor in OC? I'm not trying to push a private agenda or anything, hell I only OC when im doing yardwork and have snakeshot loaded. Just contemplating its usefulness in certain situations. Especially OC'ing the same weapon local LEO's use, I could see advantages being mistaken for a LEO.

zxcvbob
April 3, 2011, 11:55 PM
Here in Tucson I do "98% concealed". I carry a big gun, OWB, crossdraw, very "high and tight" and covered by a light jacket. It might poke out once in a while but very few notice. The legality of open carry means this isn't a problem...and both comfort and fast access are exceptional.I just got my permit, and that's what I'm leaning towards (but probably not cross-draw.)

I have worn an empty holster on my belt to work as a test, covered poorly by a polo shirt and often poking out at the bottom, just to see if anybody notices. (employer is *very* anti, and has the proper NO GUNS signs at all the entrances, so I can't carry there for real but MN says they can't ban legal guns stored in cars in the parking lot.) Nobody has even given a second look. If they see it, they probably think it's a pager or cell phone.

MrDontPlay
April 4, 2011, 12:03 AM
I don't OC because it makes you look like a dork, but it's nice that we can here incase I bend down or something and my gun gets exposed.

ang4me
April 10, 2011, 07:01 PM
Aside from the awkwardness, soccermoms, and 911 calls, here is my #1 concern with OC:
Scenario -
You're in a store. 3 or 4 thugs walk in, all armed. They are robbing the cashier and stealing merchandise. They make everyone lay down. If they're not going to harm anyone, then I'm almost certainly not going to engage. But if I'm OCing, what happens when the "crowd control" thug sees my gun? If I'm ccing, I can take action or not take action as I please, but OC, I either have to take action or risk being discovered and executed, assuming I'm complying and not trying to get into a gunfight that could possibly be avoided. So I see OC as something that can kind of force your hand. Sure it will deter some observant criminals, but if you're in a store and they burst in the door without having seen you enter/armed, then all of a sudden I'd much rather be ccing.

Jake Balam
April 10, 2011, 07:08 PM
I cc but before I got my permit I would open carry (wa)

Nothing to report.

LouCap
April 10, 2011, 07:20 PM
I don't OC because it makes you look like a dork, but it's nice that we can here incase I bend down or something and my gun gets exposed.

Now THAT Sir, might be one of the best reasons not to OC I have heard to date. Although it IS nice that you can.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk Pro.

BikerRN
April 10, 2011, 07:53 PM
I very seldom open carry, although legal.

What I like about being able to open carry is that it negates "flashing" and other unintentional displys of a firearm.

Biker

CMichael
April 10, 2011, 08:15 PM
OC is legal in MI. I wouldn't do it.

I carry to protect my wife and myself. It's something personal.

We are currently having in an issue in MI, where a few (blank) :barf: open carry to get in the face of people who are terrified of people with guns, and it has created a legal confrontation.

Tom Servo
April 10, 2011, 11:00 PM
We are currently having in an issue in MI, where a few (blank) open carry to get in the face of people who are terrified of people with guns, and it has created a legal confrontation.
At the risk of taking this into territory best covered in a different subforum...

There's a subset of the community that sees the political side of open carry as the primary reason for doing it. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm willing to listen. They've got their arguments, and they've got a few folks who articulate them very well.

The real problem arises when a small (but intentionally very visible) faction of that subset does dunderheaded things like carrying shotguns into the local library because they felt they weren't getting enough attention.

What happens? Those of us who exercise some discretion and common sense find "no guns" signs at places we frequent. In some states, those signs are legally binding. Even if they're not, we all suffer a net effect because Jimbo thought it would be amusing to freak out the squares.

I'm always leering of treating a weapon as anything but a weapon. Perhaps it can double as a political statement, but when the person carrying it is carrying it solely as a means of making a statement, I worry.

irish52084
April 11, 2011, 01:18 AM
Open carry is a funny thing, when I carry very few people even notice. People are so used to seeing phones, pda's etc.. on your belt line that they just ignore it. It usually only gets noticed if I have to stand in line for a while with someone behind me.

I had a woman in her late 20's or maybe early 30's who was behind me at the grocery store for about 5 minutes before she notice it and the pistol was right in front of her the whole time. She got a bit of a surprised look on her face and that was it, she never said a word or called the cops on me.

Most people who do notice my pistol don't seem to care or view it negatively. I try to carry myself in a courteous professional manner and I think the way I carry myself and my attitude have more to do with their reactions than anything else.

I've sat in a Starbucks for 2+ hours with 20+ other open carriers and I tried to watch every customers reaction. I'd say 75% or more of the incoming customers didn't notice any of the 20 guns being carried openly and not one of them ran out the door screaming in terror. Nobody walked in the door, saw all the guns and left and nobody complained to Starbucks about it.

There are more tactical advantages to open carry than their are disadvantages. Drawing an openly carried weapon is much easier than a concealed one. If someone sizes you up for a crime and does notice the gun, chances are they're going to pick a new target rather than deal with an armed target. Open carry makes it much easier to carry a full size gun, which for me means more rounds, better sights and a better grip, those are all god things when you need to defend yourself with your pistol.

5whiskey
April 11, 2011, 01:32 AM
I don't like OCing out of uniform, although I do sometimes when going to schools. Other than that, it's CC for me most of the time.

catnphx
April 11, 2011, 08:35 AM
It really gets down to personal preference. There are many pros/cons of OC versus CC but the cool thing is we have a choice. I love seeing people exercise their 2A rights.

My wife and I were at Lowes yesterday and a heavy couple walked by. I noticed the big gun on her side (it was extremely noticeable) after she was about 15 yards past us so I raised my voice and said "Open Carry." She immediately turned around and I gave her thumbs up. She had a big smile. My wife asked why I did that and I said "I love seeing people exercise their rights so I wanted to acknowledge her for doing that."

It's still not my thing but I like seeing people exercise the right is they choose.

mnero
April 11, 2011, 09:37 AM
Too many cowboy movies if you ask me. My great grandfather was a real texas cowboy, as my grandmother called him. He was born in texas in 1863 and he said the cowboys never carried pistols, rifles yes but not pistols. I figure if you really feel the need to be armed at the walmart you should have to lug around a rifle, LOL! No seriously if people want to carry and aint no crook or crazy it is fine by me, just not the state of Maryland LOL.

mnero
April 11, 2011, 09:41 AM
ang4me that is a really good point! I aint about to take on 5 armed 'thugs' if I don't absolutely have too either!

output
April 11, 2011, 10:11 AM
At the risk of taking this into territory best covered in a different subforum...

There's a subset of the community that sees the political side of open carry as the primary reason for doing it. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm willing to listen. They've got their arguments, and they've got a few folks who articulate them very well.

The real problem arises when a small (but intentionally very visible) faction of that subset does dunderheaded things like carrying shotguns into the local library because they felt they weren't getting enough attention.

What happens? Those of us who exercise some discretion and common sense find "no guns" signs at places we frequent. In some states, those signs are legally binding. Even if they're not, we all suffer a net effect because Jimbo thought it would be amusing to freak out the squares.

I'm always leering of treating a weapon as anything but a weapon. Perhaps it can double as a political statement, but when the person carrying it is carrying it solely as a means of making a statement, I worry.

Tom I agree.

Open carry:

It would depend on the situation or the day’s routine. Open carry may not be ideal for every scenario and the same goes for concealed carry.

Scenario where I would not OC:

If I were going to attend an event where I knew there would be large crowds of people I would not open carry. The majority of people I know are not gun enthusiasts. I have also found that people are afraid of things they do not know and guns and knives are at the top of the list. That alone is enough reason for me.

Scenario where I would OC:

If I were mowing my lawn or doing some working on my property I would open carry. Especially, if I was lifting, bending, or dressed lightly where conceal ability would be limited or would restrict my movement somehow.

I can't carry in my home state...:barf: I am licensed to carry in other states and I do when legal to do so.

mordis
April 11, 2011, 12:30 PM
I would like to add this to the discussion. Weather or not your agree with or like open carry, we as supporters of the 2A and rights to carry and defend our selvs should support open carry. It should be up to the person and his or her circumstances that dictate weather or not they oc or cc.

I may not like your choice of guns, but i support your right to own them. Same thing should apply here. We need to becarefull not to isolate the OC crowd from the rest. We need to stand with them, welcom them into the 2A fold. That dosent mean you have to oc, or even like it, but as i said support the individuals right to choose how they want to carry.

That said, i did oc here in indiana once a long while ago. Went into a Sunoco station on coldwater road fort wayne oc, after having filed the tank. only 2 people noticed, the cashier, who said he liked it becuase at least he knew were it was, and a older person coming in to the store. He said, i needed to "carry it in a texas rig", which i assume ment to conceal it. So i told him Indiana has a LTCH and does not specify how one should carry. HE said he didnt know that and went on. That being said, while it wasnt a bad experiance, it wasnt something i wanted to repeat all the time, so i dont oc anymore except on my property and my FILS.

output
April 12, 2011, 08:12 AM
Great points Mordis!

Hiker 1
April 12, 2011, 10:29 AM
You can't have it both ways.
You can't be an invisible "gray man" who blends in with the sheep (to the point that you'd get to use your 'element of surprise'), but at the same time, look like you have your stuff together enough that you aren't targeted as a threat.

Oh, but yes you can have it both ways. I have personally stared down both black and white thugs (plural) who decided that it wasn't worth it. At the same time, in a take-over robbery with a gun stuck in my face you bet I could blend in with the cowering sheep until I saw the opportunity to unleash Gaston Glock's wonderful invention.

Case in point of a man who had it both ways: http://www.local10.com/news/13585335/detail.html

jibberjabber
April 12, 2011, 12:13 PM
I'd like to experience carrying openly, but not where I live. It would just be so out of place and I don't like to draw attention to myself.

Delaware_Dan
April 12, 2011, 12:25 PM
I can open carry, but I don't. I don't recommend it either. Not in Delaware anyway.

mrray13
April 12, 2011, 01:03 PM
I would like to add this to the discussion. Weather or not your agree with or like open carry, we as supporters of the 2A and rights to carry and defend our selvs should support open carry. It should be up to the person and his or her circumstances that dictate weather or not they oc or cc.

I may not like your choice of guns, but i support your right to own them. Same thing should apply here. We need to becarefull not to isolate the OC crowd from the rest. We need to stand with them, welcom them into the 2A fold. That dosent mean you have to oc, or even like it, but as i said support the individuals right to choose how they want to carry.

This. Very well put. One should support the other's choice in carrying, because at least they are. Be it open or concealed, we all have our reasons, and they both have their pros/cons. Neither is perfect, opinions are just that, so as long as we are all on the same side, neither one is wrong.

I guess my opinion would be that regardless of which way you carry, if it's legal in your state to carry, do it!!

Seaman
April 12, 2011, 01:10 PM
OC is legal in Michigan and on rare occassions I have, if I am suffering from insomnia and take a late night stroll.

Tactically it sucks, the only tactical advantage is a faster draw for most. Since I carry behind one layer only, there is no difference, ie, if I have the misfortune of OCing in the midst of a SHTF scenario, and the BGs are good, serious trouble for me because I have totally lost the element of surprise which pretty much equates to 5 accurate rounds fired.

Bottom line...OC is OK if you can draw and shoot like Bill Jordan (who honed his skills with a 1911 shooting Japanese in Pacific island caves and later on the Border Patrol). Mr. Jordan could draw and fire an accurate slug out his S&W .357 in about a quarter of a second, and btw he could also shoot aspirin tablets, exploding them in mid air.

PS: Kudos to that 71 year who took out the 2 bad guys in the Sub shop, the old gent was carrying concealed. (post #97)

CMichael
April 12, 2011, 02:50 PM
Me Quote:
We are currently having in an issue in MI, where a few (blank) open carry to get in the face of people who are terrified of people with guns, and it has created a legal confrontation.
At the risk of taking this into territory best covered in a different subforum...

There's a subset of the community that sees the political side of open carry as the primary reason for doing it. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm willing to listen. They've got their arguments, and they've got a few folks who articulate them very well.

The real problem arises when a small (but intentionally very visible) faction of that subset does dunderheaded things like carrying shotguns into the local library because they felt they weren't getting enough attention.

What happens? Those of us who exercise some discretion and common sense find "no guns" signs at places we frequent. In some states, those signs are legally binding. Even if they're not, we all suffer a net effect because Jimbo thought it would be amusing to freak out the squares.

I'm always leering of treating a weapon as anything but a weapon. Perhaps it can double as a political statement, but when the person carrying it is carrying it solely as a means of making a statement, I worry.

Obviously you are aware of the MI mess.

I have a dilemma on this issue.

Several OC activists were IMO seeking out a confrontation with a local library. The library staff are terrified of guns. And the activists IMO actively OCed there to get "into their face.".

In fact, they were talking about having an OC picnic in the park across the street from the library.

The result was that the library got an injunction against OCing in the library and it's going to be a court battle.

I support the right to OC, but I don't like the "in your face" code pink tactics. I am having trouble supporting the OC people who created this mess, and who have not learned from it.

Tom Servo
April 12, 2011, 04:59 PM
I am having trouble supporting the OC people who created this mess, and who have not learned from it.
That's the problem. If we criticize the decisions those guys make, then we're "traitors" and "Fudds."

That kid's actions had nothing to do with promoting political awareness. He wasn't carrying the weapon for self-defense. He was using it to antagonize people, whether he admits it or not.

Thing is, it backfires. Sometimes badly, as it did in this situation.