PDA

View Full Version : unknown Italian reproduction 1851 navy revolver


gnguy
January 26, 2011, 12:33 PM
I have an Italian made 1851 navy revolver with proper italian proof marks mfd in 1972, however there is NO manufacturer's mark just a serial number 21xxx. Would like to know more about it but at a dead end. It has what looks like a silver backstrap and trigger guard but they are untarnished and is in the standard .36 cal. Can anybody help me out???

junkman_01
January 26, 2011, 12:45 PM
Not unless you show us some detailed pics of the various areas of the frame and barrel. Serial numbers on Italian reproductions mean next to nothing.

Fingers McGee
January 26, 2011, 12:50 PM
What are the barrel markings? On top and on the bottom? What are the markings on the bottom of the frame & on the backstrap?

Pictures would help.

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 01:16 PM
How are these

Doc Hoy
January 26, 2011, 01:16 PM
Serial numbers can be at six different places on the piece. Where it is may tell you something about who put it on there in the first place.

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 01:19 PM
serial number located forward of trigger guard

junkman_01
January 26, 2011, 01:21 PM
Look under the loading lever on the bottom of the barrel for markings.

Fingers McGee
January 26, 2011, 01:25 PM
How are these

No help. Need picture of serial number under frame, top and bottom of barrel and bottom of backstrap

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 01:26 PM
no markings found under lever

mykeal
January 26, 2011, 01:28 PM
Please provide pictures of:
the barrel under the loading lever, especially where it enters the frame,
the bottom of the gun forward of the trigger guard where the trigger guard, frame and barrel assembly come together,
bottom of the grip frame,
both sides of the grip frame with the grips removed
back of cylinder

All these areas may contain marks which provide clues as to the origin of the gun.

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 01:44 PM
they are no markings on top or below barrel just the two proof marks and cal .36 NAVY MODEL-MADE IN ITALY- on the side and BLACK POWDER ONLY on the other side lower flat.

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 02:12 PM
the only other markings I see are on the grip frame looks like an 18 or a 81 scribed in the grip frame

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 02:15 PM
only marks on the cylinder are two proof house marks and PATENT N

BConklin
January 26, 2011, 02:16 PM
You have more info on it than I have on the one I got....it has only one marking that I can find - BLACK POWDER ONLY - MADE IN ITALY. Other than that I can't find any proof marks...numbers...NOTHING

junkman_01
January 26, 2011, 02:19 PM
Man, that is one poorly cast front strap!:barf:

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 02:32 PM
Thought all guns from italy made after 1950 must bear proof house marks

arcticap
January 26, 2011, 02:33 PM
There's a photo of a similar 1851 on the RPRCA website, 3rd row down on the far right. The one next to it has the same configuration but with the square back trigger guard.

http://rprca.tripod.com/ModelsColt1851Navy.htm

1851 Navy 3rd Model Civilian Model. Silver Trigger Guard & Back Strap 6" Barrel .36Cal.(.44Cal. Shown)

So the silver parts are nickel plated, right?

Thought all guns from italy made after 1950 must bear proof house marks

These are the proof marks on the frame and again next to the wedge:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66647&d=1296065752

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66646&d=1296065752

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 03:00 PM
I think it would be safe to say it is nickel plated as it is not tarnished and yes those are the proof house marks

gnguy
January 26, 2011, 03:08 PM
The first mark is the provsional Gardone proof the second is a black powder proof of Gardone and Brescia the third mark "xx8" is the proof date code for 1972

Doc Hoy
January 26, 2011, 03:53 PM
.....That ASP marked the grip frames at the approximate location of the 81 on your revolver. This was noted on two Remington revolvers which is not confirmation of the practice only evidence that it was done two times. They marked also the trigger guard and the grips. The difference is that it was done with a numeral punch or stamp and not scratched into the part.

gnguy
January 27, 2011, 12:07 PM
Looks like everyones stumped on this one, bummer

Fingers McGee
January 27, 2011, 12:38 PM
It's got me stumped. My guess would be either an ASM, ASP, or Uberti; in that order.

gnguy
January 31, 2011, 11:11 AM
why would'nt a company stamp their name on it you would think they would be proud of their product

arcticap
January 31, 2011, 11:55 AM
Now days, some folks complain because there's too much writing stamped on the reproduction guns. The stamped lettering makes it look less authentic and the manufacturer was trying to produce a more realistic Colt clone. Many historical reenactors feel that the less stamping there is the better.
In a way it's similar to how there's often not any specific history attached to an authentic 19th century Colt gun, i.e. who carried it, where and what it went through after it was made, shipped and sold. Because the individual history of most old guns is lost it just becomes an old gun subject to one's imagination. :)

Doc Hoy
January 31, 2011, 12:04 PM
It appears that some importers over the years did not want other markings on their stuff. Witness Euroarms.

Navy Arms and CVA is different.

bedbugbilly
January 31, 2011, 02:52 PM
I had a steel frame, .36 1851 Navy with a brass guard and back strap - it had the same identical markings as this one does. I disassembled it, went over it with a fine tooth comb and never could find a manufacturer's mark on it. The quality of the brass castings was better than this one but overall, if you put the two side by side, they would look like twins with the exception of the guards and backstraps. I believe the date code on mine was the same as well. I did some horse trading in the 70s to get it and it was new but didn't have a box or paperwork with it. I traded it off this last summer towards a 38 spl Colt that I wanted as I have other '51s that I liked more. It still remains a mystery to me as to who made it other than I'm sure it was Italian. I have several ASMs from that time period and the fit/finish was much better on those but who know? I always figured it might be a Pietta but that was a stab in the dark. Good luck on this one - I hope you're able to find something out on it. Enjoy! :)