PDA

View Full Version : What would you do in this situation?


amazon shooter
January 22, 2011, 01:41 PM
Hi guys,

I suspect most of us have never encountered a life threatening situation thank God, but some of us have had some close calls - this was my close call.

I have been living on a farm in the Amazon for more than 25 years. Some twenty years ago I was visiting a friend at his farm one night for beers and pizza. I left at 11 pm to return to my farm 10 kilometers away. It was a typically warm, humid, and starry night. The night creatures were making their eerier sounds and the pot holes and huge bumps kept appearing on the dirt road to keep me awake. Normally, not a creature was stirring - no people or vehicles. As I approached a chicken farm on my left, a man steps out from the shadows and into the middle of the road. He is holding a shotgun with the barrel pointed down and raising his arm motioning me to stop. The first thing I thought was, don't argue with a man with a gun. I didn't know what the hell was going on. I thought of putting my foot to the pedal and running over the guy, but if I didn't get him, he certainly would have unloaded his single shot, 16 ga. shotgun into the back of the cab as I tried to escape. If I were hit, I would probably bleed to death before I could get to town for help. So, I decided to stop. He came over to my door with the shotgun still pointing down and asked me where I had been and where I was going - I told him. He didn't identify himself. The guy wasn't a policeman or a soilder. Was he just the guard of the chicken farm? If so, why is he stopping me on a public road in the middle of the night carrying a shotgun and asking stupid questions? Next, he asked if I was carrying a gun - Gulp, I told him no. Then, he said, "Get out of the pickup truck".

The moment of truth has arrived. What would you do? You have seconds to assess the situation and formulate a plan or do you just do nothing and go along for the ride?

I''ll tell you later how it went down.

ripnbst
January 22, 2011, 02:22 PM
Well, were you really carrying or not? Jungle protocol is WAYYYYY different than how things work here in the burbs.

How did this guy rank in terms of physical size comparatively speaking? This would have some bearing on my reaction. A large bearing actually.

Were you carrying a knife? If I lived in the jungle I'd never leave home without one, hell I rarely leave home without one living in a suburb. Just cause its handy to have but also could be used to defend myself.

Another consideration is you did say it was a shotgun and it was pointed in the dirt. Shotgun is not something he could pull up as quickly as a pistol so you stand a better chance at close distances to be able to grab the gun and keep it pointed elsewhere while you struggle to get it away from him or facilitate firing the only shell in it away from you.

cracked91
January 22, 2011, 02:23 PM
Its hard for me to assess how I would have handled this situation due to the fact that don't live down there. Are you stopped frequently on the roads? Did this man have any legal authority to ask you to stop?

If I was on a forest road late night here in AZ and I was passing some settlement and that happened to me, I would not have stopped. I would have attempted to swerve around him, but had he been insistent on being in front of the vehicle, he would have gone under it. I would lay low and take my chances against a single shot scattergun in my back window.

In my opinion, if you are in serious trouble and need to flag someone down in the middle of the night, in a remote location, its best not to be carrying a shotgun in your hand.

TXAZ
January 22, 2011, 02:30 PM
Doesn't sound like a good situation to be in. For a chicken guard I probably would have divert away from answering any gun / no gun questions.

Once he said to get out of the car and noting the gun is pointed in a safe direction, based on prior counter-terrorism training years ago, I'd first overtly look in the rear view mirror and say something like 'Hey, who's that walking up on us way back there' to divert his attention to the rear, simultaneously put it in drive if not there / pop the clutch and rapidly accelerate to 35-45 mph until out of range, then speed up. I'm also going to duck below his line of sight for a 1-2 seconds should he shoot through the rear glass. With a little distance, it's a little safer to pop up, check my direction and his location. Since it's a single shot, it's a lesser threat than a guy with an AK or Dragunov.

Lots of options, will be interesting to see what you did.

curt.45
January 22, 2011, 02:49 PM
Duck and Go!

amazon shooter
January 22, 2011, 03:45 PM
Here are some answers to your questions.

+I wasn't carrying a gun. I left my 12ga. Winchester pump shotgun loaded with 3" mag slugs, 00 buck and NÂș 4 buckshot at the house along with my two male German shephards. They are my welcoming commitee at the farm for meeting strangers at night.
+Gringos have been killed here before and since this happened.
+The physical size of these guys are mostly less than me - 5'10", 170 lbs. The guy was about 5'7" and 160 lbs.
+I wasn't carrying a knife either.
+He never pointed the shotgun at me.
+I was prepared to act immediately if the situation became worse.
+I'm never stopped on the road, unless it's with people in uniforms and if it's the police, they have AK 47's and if it's the army, they have FAL's. The guy had on como pants and a como hat - military and police don't carry single shot 16 ga. shotguns.

Hey guys - I went through all of those options in a few seconds. Believe me, the situation wasn't getting better and all I wanted to do was go home and go to bed.

Am I going to escalate the situation to a point where it's either him or me?

Stevie-Ray
January 22, 2011, 04:13 PM
Act as if I'm getting out and open the door fast, (if he's next to the door) slamming it into him and floor it while ducking down. He's got one shot and can't reload fast enough to hit me again.

EricReynolds
January 22, 2011, 06:37 PM
+1. Definitely if he was standing close enough, I'd hit him with the door. Either way, I'm going to duck down and floor it. If he fires at me as I flee, I can only assume he was going to kill me anyway, so no sense in making it easy for him. If it was completely different and he needed help, then it's too bad he didn't know how to ask nicely.

Lost Sheep
January 23, 2011, 03:57 AM
I learned, in a hot zone, you never stop for anything. While you were not in a technically "hot" zone and running the guy over was probably not a viable option (though, as already pointed out, was ONE option), I speculate that if this guy was part of a team set on ambush, there may have been a few that you had just passed before you saw the one. To block your retreat.

If this happened in a town in the U.S., the conventional wisdom is to let him have your vehicle as long as the car-jacker doesnt want to take you (or any passengers you might have) along.

But it appears, in the best case scenario, you would have been left on a lonely road, some distance from your home and weaponless.

Unless you think he was alone and only wanted your truck (in which case you might try the risky move of trying to ransom your truck a freedom on the spot), making a break for it looks at first glance to be the option of choice.

Lost Sheep

Ac1d0v3r1d3
January 23, 2011, 01:35 PM
I'm gonna guess that the guy just needed to shoot something. Maybe he was out of ammo and wanted to barrow your gun? .... ahahaha right?


really though, I would not have stopped for him if I was unarmed. That being said, I am hardly ever unarmed.

the rifleer
January 23, 2011, 02:54 PM
Well, are you going to tell us what happened?

I think that the problem with stuff like this is that it happens so fast that you don't have much time to think. I do know that if someone pointed a gun at me I'd be pretty cooperative if I was unarmed.

joe poteat
January 23, 2011, 03:06 PM
I would be thinking stranger, armed, night. He is going to kill me. Run him over if possible if not open door and hit him with it. Attack any way possible. Sort it out later.

jreXD9
January 23, 2011, 09:46 PM
well, Amazon Shooter hasn't been here since yesterday. I guess the guy tracked him down and got him.

youngunz4life
January 23, 2011, 10:07 PM
did you calmly ask him or ask him why he wanted you to get out of the vehicle?

Ryder
January 24, 2011, 12:34 AM
If the guy hasn't threatened me and asks me to get out of the vehicle I'm asking why. He's basically a neighbor. People have to depend on each other in the wilderness for survival. He probably has a need for assistance and isn't well practiced at social interaction.

If the situation warrants it using the vehicle as a weapon isn't out of the question. Put it in reverse, crank the wheel to the right, and mash the go pedal.

BfloBill
January 24, 2011, 05:29 AM
My first choice would be to slow as if I were to stop, then gun it and duck. If you assessed the weapon correctly odds would be in your favor.

If I did choose to stop and get out, I would be sure to stay close enough to him that if he started to bring his weapon up I would be able to be inside his shooting radius. It does make it easier that he has a long gun (and a single shot at that!)

Of course it's alot easier for us to second guess, not having the pressure of the moment.

amazon shooter
January 24, 2011, 12:43 PM
He said, "Get out of the pickup." Dad always said, "Never argue with a man with a gun."

So, I stepped out of the cab. My senses were as finely tuned as a hair trigger - waiting for that one indication that says it's him or me. He does something stupid, he gets within a foot of me and pats me down with his free hand - checking to see if I was carrying a pistol - no cigar. Then, he steps between me and the opened door, his back to me, he bends over with his flashlight to look under and behind the bench seat presumely looking for a firearm - no cigar. This was the perfect time - I had him. But .......

Pbearperry
January 24, 2011, 12:57 PM
I would have stopped about 50 ft short of him and yelled out the window what he wanted.If he got closer,I would back up.You never should have pulled right up to an armed man like that.

kx592
January 24, 2011, 01:20 PM
I dont know your state or laws but in NJ he clearly put you in imminent danger( does not matter if he pointed it at you or not) there fore you were justified to run his *** over. If I was 100% positive it was 16ga single shot I would have made the call to not stop and aim for him centered on the hood :cool:


- that's also not arguing with a man with a gun ;) -

LordTio3
January 24, 2011, 01:30 PM
Wow, there's an awful lot of chest-thumping going on here. Guy with a rifle in the wilderness in South America, outside of what could presumably be his farm... and there's a whole demographic that would Run Him Down No Questions Asked? Come on. You aren't impressing anyone here.

"Scuse' me, Sir? I was out hunting the Amazonian equivalent of Raccoons, came back and my house was on fire. Do you have a cellular phone so I can call emergency services?"

That guy would have a hell of a bad night having his house burned down and being murdered on the street by some macho neanderthal.

Now we've seen that this wasn't exactly the case so far, but please cool it with the, "Single shot shotgun? RUN 'IM DOWN!"-talk.

~LT

bt4264
January 24, 2011, 01:37 PM
This is starting to sound like a novel in the making....

ARick81
January 24, 2011, 01:51 PM
I agree with the lord. You did say that the gun never made its way from being pointed at the ground so obviously there wasn't an immediate threat. I would think that if his intentions were bad that he would have had more than a single shot bird gun in his hand so maybe he needed some kind of help. I know for sure that i wouldn't be walking at night in the amazon unarmed. He may have asked if you were armed thinking you could be a threat to him so that makes sense as well. Now i personally would have asked him why he wanted me to step out of the vehicle but thats just me. You obviously made it home safe or we wouldn't be reading about it so if you had run him over then that would make you a murderer. Let me take a wild guess and say that he was the chicken farmer and someone or something was disturbing his livestock and he was trying to resolve the situation??

mrgoodwrench76
January 24, 2011, 02:30 PM
I cant really answer the question truthfully as I would have not been unarmed. I NEVER leave my home without keys, phone, sidearm, and a knife or leatherman. That being said, I would not have gotten that close to the man. As mentioned above, stop short and ask questions. Run him down? Really? I hope none of you are my neighbors. Swerve around him and duck sounds like a better option all around. Now if he had fired, maybe, but probably not. AVOID CONFRONTATION if at all possible. There being no situation to begin with is the best resolve.

EricReynolds
January 24, 2011, 02:30 PM
LordTio; I hear you and I'm not on board with running him over, but from how AmazonShooter's telling it, I would not have cooperated with this person. Gun in hand, asks me if I'm armed and then demands I get out of my vehicle before telling me what's going on?! No way am I going along with it. He could be a highwayman, and I would assume he was. If he was just some guy in desperate need of help, why not inform the person you're asking for help what the deal is? Here's an idea...put your gun down before you flag me down. I'd be more inclined to stop.
Amazon; can you please conclude this story? People are getting irritated.

Single Six
January 24, 2011, 02:45 PM
Based on what you posted, I'd go with Clint Smith's advice: "Either drive or shoot..NOT BOTH!" I think I'd floor the gas while ducking down as best as I could.

m.p.driver
January 24, 2011, 02:47 PM
I would have ducked low and floored it.Having been stationed in Honduras during the 80's the general rule was never stop at night,whether in the city or countryside.But we had at least as even a playing field as the locals,we never left the basecamps unless we were well armed.

LordTio3
January 24, 2011, 02:48 PM
LordTio; I hear you and I'm not on board with running him over, but from how AmazonShooter's telling it, I would not have cooperated with this person. Gun in hand, asks me if I'm armed and then demands I get out of my vehicle before telling me what's going on?! No way am I going along with it. He could be a highwayman, and I would assume he was. If he was just some guy in desperate need of help, why not inform the person you're asking for help what the deal is? Here's an idea...put your gun down before you flag me down. I'd be more inclined to stop.

I agree completely.

If you've decided that you are going to engage this person and see what he wants, your best bet is to stop about 50 or 100 feet short, roll down your window and yell, "What's going on? Do you need help?" If he levels his weapon you put your head down and shift into reverse, but you've got distance on your side. Even if he starts to come toward the car, you can yell, "Hey, I'd appreciate it if you'd put that weapon down or stay where you are."

Personally, there are some of my weapons I wouldn't want to put in the dirt, but I am also never without a holster or a good sling on a long gun. A slung rifle is much less threatening than one at low ready.

I agree, we need to know what happened. I think it's universally accepted that it was a bad idea to let this guy get you out of your vehicle, pat you down, and order you around.

Sure, Don't argue with a man that has a gun... but don't blindly enter into a situation with one, JUST to have to follow his every order, SIMPLY because he has a gun. Too many tactical blunders to count in this one, on both sides.

~LT

EricReynolds
January 24, 2011, 03:38 PM
+1 LordTio

cracked91
January 24, 2011, 04:34 PM
Wow, there's an awful lot of chest-thumping going on here. Guy with a rifle in the wilderness in South America, outside of what could presumably be his farm... and there's a whole demographic that would Run Him Down No Questions Asked? Come on. You aren't impressing anyone here.

I don't feel like its chest thumping at all. There is not a ton of pride or Bad-A points to be gained by running someone down with a car. Its just putting your safety over some random person's problems. You try to swerve around and duck, thats common sense, but I would NOT slow down or stop. Then you go from a fast moving clay pigeon, to a slow moving or stopped clay pigeon. And either way, I have never heard of a sane person jumping in front of a vehicle that they could not hail.

jimbob86
January 24, 2011, 04:44 PM
.............folks wanting help don't need a loaded shotgun to do it.


I'm going to duck down and floor it. If he fires at me as I flee, I can only assume he was going to kill me anyway, so no sense in making it easy for him. If it was completely different and he needed help, then it's too bad he didn't know how to ask nicely.

Especially that last part.

mikerault
January 24, 2011, 04:52 PM
1200+ pound car, verses a couple ounces of buck shot or lead pellets...hmm...who has the superior weapon?

maddyfish
January 24, 2011, 05:05 PM
I'd have floored it and bugged out.

LordTio3
January 24, 2011, 06:37 PM
I don't feel like its chest thumping at all. There is not a ton of pride or Bad-A points to be gained by running someone down with a car. Its just putting your safety over some random person's problems. You try to swerve around and duck, thats common sense, but I would NOT slow down or stop. Then you go from a fast moving clay pigeon, to a slow moving or stopped clay pigeon. And either way, I have never heard of a sane person jumping in front of a vehicle that they could not hail.

Yah... trying to avoid him is one thing. But somehow I don't think the following shares the "avoidance" sentiment.

I dont know your state or laws but in NJ he clearly put you in imminent danger( does not matter if he pointed it at you or not) there fore you were justified to run his *** over. If I was 100% positive it was 16ga single shot I would have made the call to not stop and aim for him centered on the hood

THAT'S Murder.

~LT

spaniel
January 24, 2011, 06:57 PM
Some of the replies here are quite disturbing. Run the guy over because he is standing by the road with a shotgun in a non-threatening position? REALLY? Good luck with the jury on that one. His car could have broken down, his hunting buddy is injured and they need help...there are plenty of reasonable reasons why he would do this.

The fact that he is standing next to the road waving at you, with a gun pointed at the ground, is NOT going to hold up as a justifiable reason to run him down in any US court. I don't know how it would fly in Brazil.

You may not be obligated to stop, but you have no justifiable cause to run him over.

Nnobby45
January 24, 2011, 07:08 PM
THAT'S Murder.

Absolute freaking bunk. When a man with a gun steps in front of your car on a lonely road in the middle of no where, one would, I should think, have a reasonable fear. Go around, if you can, but keep going.

Being required to stop and find out what his intentions are and stay alive only if he wishes it, is an incredible positiion to take. Unfortunately, there's no way to really find out what's happening without stopping and putting your life in danger. Flagging a car is one thing. Stepping out with a gun is another.

There are always posters on this board who are very quick to condemn one for taking necessary life saving action if the perpetrator is killed or injured.

I'll take my chances with his one shot being bird shot or buck. Neither likely to penetrate the cab.

mrgoodwrench76
January 24, 2011, 07:18 PM
Sure wish the OP would finish his story.

youngunz4life
January 24, 2011, 07:21 PM
I am definately asking him why as I first mentioned. At that point I am not hitting him with a door and getting off that easy. I am there and there is no changing that at this point. If I did choose to not stop I am not wasting time trying to go around someone who in my mind is going to be shooting at me. Chances are I'll swerve into him as he moves. If I floor it and go straight forward(going by OP's original story), there is no reason why he can't move out of the way of my vehicle. He'll see pretty quick I am not stopping as he had hoped upon standing in the road with his hand up holding a shotgun(seems like he wouldn't be surprised). I think the best advice I have heard is the stopping immediately upon seeing the stranger from a distance. I didn't think of this originally. I am definately edgy and suspicious at this time of night, seeing a firearm, not knowing this person, and being in a foreign country.

-really would appreciate an end of the story or how it played out...hopefully after all ended well(I am guessing) you told this guy that its not cool to start making demands without explaining himself. You aren't a mindreader, and you shouldn't have to wait patiently for this guy to 'ease your mind' on his snail mail schedule.

Nnobby45
January 24, 2011, 07:26 PM
Some of the replies here are quite disturbing. Run the guy over because he is standing by the road with a shotgun in a non-threatening position.....

Not BY the road.

IN the middle of the road, blocking it, with a gun in his hand at night. That's a non-threatening position to you? Yes, maybe he means you no harm, but maybe it's a prelude to robbery or worse. When the only way to find out is to stop, well..........your call, I guess.:cool:

Nnobby45
January 24, 2011, 07:30 PM
Sure wish the OP would finish his story.


That's right. Hey, Amazon Shooter, get your butt back here and finish the story. I'll bet he was looking for stolen chickens----right?:cool:

You said pizza. Are you sure it was BBQ chicken you had?:D

LordTio3
January 24, 2011, 07:58 PM
IN the middle of the road, blocking it, with a gun in his hand at night. That's a non-threatening position to you? Yes, maybe he means you no harm, but maybe it's a prelude to robbery or worse. When the only way to find out is to stop, well..........your call, I guess.

Yes, it is uncertain what his intentions are. The criticisms made are toward the people who have said simply to INTENTIONALLY RUN HIM DOWN without: 1- seeing if he IS a threat or 2- intentionally trying to avoid him.

Yes avoid him. Surely there's another way to get where you're going that doesn't involve getting ANY CLOSER to the strange man with the gun. Back up, do a 3 point turn, and go the other way.

If you DO decide to see what he wants, your best bet is to stop very short at about yelling distance and ask him nicely why he's in the middle of the road; and to keep his distance as long as he has that weapon.

To intentionally run him down without gaining any more information than what was gained by staying in the car, you've just murdered someone. It would be like going to the shooting range, being muzzle-swept by an inconsiderate and careless person, and instead of seeing whether or not they really meant to put you at gun-point, just going ahead and shooting them dead on the spot.

"Well he had a GUN! What was I supposed to do? Talk to him?!" Yes. If you were choosing to maintain the encounter, the next responsible thing to do would be to talk to him. Your other option is to back away and terminate the encounter by leaving the area. To force him to dodge your oncoming car would be like shoving the person to the ground and leaving.

If it matters to you, stop short and yell. If you're feeling squirrely and juvenile, then give him a "bluff charge". Chances are that's against the law, but whatever. But you don't just kill someone because they have a gun and you're not 100% certain of their intentions.

~LT

fawcettlee
January 24, 2011, 08:18 PM
A Dickens serial?

amazon shooter
January 24, 2011, 08:22 PM
+the guy came out of no where and walked into the middle of the road, not on the side of the road. If was either gun it, and run him over if he didn't jump out of the way, or stop.
+I couldn't throw it into reverse and backup because 1) I had no back-up lights, thieves stole them the week before, 2) It was pitch black out, 3) the road was dirt, filled with pot holes, bumps, and mud. 4) I was only going a little faster than a guy could run anyway.

When I told my friends about it later, they ALL said, "Are you Crazy? Don't Stop, gun it and if that means running the SOB over, tough luck!" Most of you guys said the same, I agree - you're right. I won't make that same mistake again.

But, this is what I sensed, 1) the guy was alone, 2) he never raised or pointed the shotgun at me, 3) he never threatened me, 4) he seemed too stupid to be an armed robber. Was it just a ruse to steal a handgun from a gringo - I'll never know. If there was two or more of them, if they pointed their guns or knives at me, if they verbally threatened me, if they acted a notch above a moron - yah, then I would fight for my life.

Well, after he finished looking and found nothing, he turned to me and I said, "I'm tired and I want to go home, are you finished - can I go now?" He said, "Yes." I got the hell out of there asap. I made a beeline to the police station and reported it to the police. They yawned, nodded, and continued watching TV.

I'm sorry that it ended on a flat note, but no one was hurt.

NOW, put on your seat belt. The next story is true as told to me by the gringo who experienced it. This happened years ago too. I won't mention names.

The gringo and his wife were living in a little river village an hour's boat ride from town. After seeing off a group of tourists, they had dinner and settled into bed. Later that night, three men announce their presence as they barged through the door with shotguns (single shot 16 ga.), and demanded money. The gringo was armed because one of the tourists left him his S&W Chief's Special - he probably thought the gringo needed it more than he did and going through US customs with a gun might be a problem. The gringo kept the gun in his cash box. As he went to get the cash box, the moment of truth had arrived.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO? - Are you going to shoot it out (in a bedroom with your wife in bed) with 3 guys with shotguns looking at you and you with your Chief's special, or are you going to do nothing and play it by ear?

Remember what I said,

"If there was two or more of them, if they pointed their guns or knives at me, if they verbally threatened me, if they acted a notch above a moron - yah, then I would fight for my life."

Think about it - what would you do? I'll tell you in a couple of days when I return to town - I don't own a computer, I use one in town.

mrgoodwrench76
January 24, 2011, 08:47 PM
Well, although quite a boring end to such a DRAWN OUT and suspensfull story, I'm glad to hear no one was hurt. As for the second, thats a tough call. I'm going to presume, due to the location, that the odds of the men taking the money and simply leaving are slim to none. I would, in my own mind, believe that once I give them the money, I would be done in anyway so...... use the tactical advantage you have, suprise. Open the box, throw it at them, in hopes of drawing their attention to the box instead of you, and then open fire. I'm willing to bet after you drop one of them, the other two would run. A horrible situation to be in no matter how you react. I would rather go down fighting then lay down and die. I'm anxious to see what others think of the scenerio.

youngunz4life
January 24, 2011, 08:50 PM
this game is old. lol. just kidding but it really is.

answer: it would all depend on what my senses told me but I'm not fighting three armed men with shotguns over some lousy cash unless there isn't any choice.

GeauxTide
January 24, 2011, 09:07 PM
I just wasted five minutes of browse. Write a paper back.

ARick81
January 24, 2011, 09:16 PM
Tell them to take the wife instead of the cash. And when the three of them are argueing over who gets her first you can either A. Start shooting or B. Start running.

Capt Charlie
January 24, 2011, 09:35 PM
Let's keep one scenario to a thread, OK?

You can start a new one with your latest literary masterpiece if you wish, Amazon, but as much as we all like suspense, let's try to keep from re-writing "Romancing the Stone" on that one. ;) :D

Closed.