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Noz
January 18, 2011, 11:55 AM
There are many disparaging remarks being posted about Cowboy Action Shooting under the SASS umbrella being posted. Here is my reply to some of the remarks.

RE: Costuming. Sass requires that you dress in your interpretation of the "old west". Minimum being leather footgear without large visible lug soles, a long sleeve shirt (without advertising), and jeans. No hat requirements other than no feathered cowboy hats and no baseball caps. The shirt requirement becomes obvious when hot cases start hitting you. Some of our shooters dress minimum and some go to the wall with full "cowboy" regalia. Both are welcome. We find that shooters that start with the minimum, as did I, soon begin to blossom in more cowboy clothes. Just adds to the fun.

RE: Mouse fart loads. SASS has initiated a minimum power factor that eliminates the very low level powered load some competitors were using. Most of the high level shooters learned that they need a "feed back" in the form of recoil to really shoot fast. The majority of the extremely low level shooters have been therefore eliminated, both by experience and by the power factor.

Yes, you can occasionally see the bullets in flight. 3/8" to 1/2" flat shiney lead bullet bases tend to capture the sun and make them quite visible. The majority of these bullets are traveling in the range of normally loaded 38 specials and 45 acps, that is 600 to 900 fps.

High pressure loads are neither desired nor tolerated. We shoot all steel and in many cases very close targets. A full powered load could cause some damage among participants as well as damage to the targets themselves which in turn causes more splash back etc.

Most of the black powder shooters shoot either full loads or very nearly that.

Knock down targets become an unbearable hassle. They must be precisely regulated to fit all of the range of legal guns from 32 caliber to 45 caliber. They must be reset for each shooter and they are 2 to 3 times as expensive as regular targets.

Most of the criticism of CAS/SASS shooting comes from those that have never tried it. If you have an interest in that era of history(roughly 1860 to 1899) and single action revolvers, lever action/pump rifles, double barrel/lever shotguns of the era, find a local match and go watch. You'll never find a better quality of people than will be there.

Our biggest value comes from the fact that, from it's inception, there have never been prizes awarded for shooting other than bragging tokens, simple trophies or buckles etc. This removes the intense competition and makes it a social event with guns with no possibility of financial gain. The world champion gets a belt buckle.

Those that laugh at the big targets set closely should watch the really fast shooters shoot said targets. When you can draw from holster, put 5 pistol shots on 5 targets, reholster, draw second pistol from holster, put 5 pistol shots on 5 targets, reholster, pick up rifle from stand/table, fire 10 rifle shots on 5 targets, restage rifle, pick up shotgun from stand or table and fire 4 shotgun shots on 4 knock down targets in consistent sub 20 second runs with any load level you desire above minimum then you can laugh at the skill required.

We have many former, bulls eye, IDPA and all of the other alphabetic pistol competitions, trap shooters and skeet shooters that have burned out and gravitated to us because of the position that there is no Cadillac to be won and all pressure is self generated. We have shooters that consistently shoot in the high teens and shooters that consistently shoot in the high 60s and from 8 years old to 90 years old. All on the same range, following each other, and all having fun!

Many of our shoots have lengthened into 2 day to 4 day matches, with banquets, costume contests, side matches, dances, cooking contests and parties, all with your friends that you have met or those that you will meet. If you feel intimidated by the parties then you do not have to attend.

Come play. You'll enjoy it and us.

Fingers McGee
January 18, 2011, 12:27 PM
Amen

FM

Tanker6
January 18, 2011, 12:36 PM
+1

a/k/a Chickahominy Charlie ;)

g.willikers
January 18, 2011, 05:58 PM
My complaint with the Cowboy Action game hasn't been addressed by the above.
It's that there's too danged many guns needed.
And too much danged cleaning up afterwards.
Not to mention trying to keep my pants up with all that gear.
Now, if only one sixgun and one lever action rifle were needed, that would be more authentic, and agreeable - at least to me.
The round count could easily be the same as with four guns,
By reloading on the fly or having more courses of fire with less rounds each.
For those who feel cheated if they can't drag out, and dirty up, their whole arsenal, side matches could be added.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents on it.
And worth about both pennies.

Fingers McGee
January 18, 2011, 07:32 PM
Now, if only one sixgun and one lever action rifle were needed, that would be more authentic, and agreeable - at least to me.


Then NCOWS is right up your alley. They have the following:

Men’s and Women’s Working Cowboy: Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. Smokeless or Black Powder cartridges may be used. No gun carts are to be used at any time. Pistol may be fired with one or two hands.

g.willikers
January 18, 2011, 07:43 PM
Shucks, there aint' no NCOWS matches nowheres near our part of the country.
But here's their web site anyhow:
http://www.ncows.org/

Crunchy Frog
January 18, 2011, 07:57 PM
I have been shooting SASS for a year now. I agree that the "costuming" requirement is not a problem since the minimum is easy to meet. It may require a visit to the local thrift store but that's about it, and I have never heard anyone given a hard time about costumes.

I originally thought the four gun requirement might be an issue since I didn't own a single compliant gun. What I found, though, is that cowboy shooters are some of the most generous and helpful folks I have ever associated with. People fell over themselves offering to lend guns. I brought my own ammo but was offered that as well. It has taken me a full year to assemble my own full set of cowboy guns but I have never lacked for shooting irons. At our club's annual match the fellow whose rifle I had been using had sold it to another new shooter but he assured me he'd pass the word and find me a rifle for the day. I was handed a brand new rifle that one of our guys had just received from a gunsmith. He was on another posse that day and we hardly saw one another. That's the kind of people you'll find at a SASS match, almost without exception from what I hear.

Oh, and if you like to shoot, we throw a lot of lead downrange in the course of a six stage match.

BODAME
January 18, 2011, 09:28 PM
What can I say.
I Shoot SASS cause I like:The Guns,The Clothes,The Pards,The Food,The Cowboy Code and everything that goes along with The Old West.
Double Ought Hagen - Badge 74836
Hiram's Ranger - Badge 24

Hawg Haggen
January 18, 2011, 10:06 PM
For those that think hitting a 16 inch steel plate from 7 yards is easy. Try it sometime shooting as fast as you can. It's a lot easier to miss than you may think.:D

Hardcase
January 18, 2011, 10:51 PM
For those that think hitting a 16 inch steel plate from 7 yards is easy. Try it sometime shooting as fast as you can. It's a lot easier to miss than you may think.

I thought the same thing about Steel Challenge until I stood in the box. All of a sudden, 7 yards looked like a mile and 20 yards was at the horizon. And that was with an autoloader. Standing in one place. With a plastic holster.

The cowboy thing is something else. :eek:

45-70 Chevron
January 18, 2011, 11:53 PM
Noz: Great thread. I shoot at a local club in NE Ariz. we have a lot of fun and every one is laid back and willing to help any time some one has a problem with a gun or ammo. I had loaded some 45 loads with some 230 gr. commercial cast bullets that worked just fine in my Ruger single action but they were to long to cycle through my 92 Rossi. One of the guys gave me a box of 45's and I finished the day with those in my Rossi. He would not let me replace the ammo. The next time I loaded some of the commercial stuff I just seated them a little deeper no more problem.

45-70 Chevron
January 19, 2011, 12:05 AM
g.willikers: As for keeping your pants up with all that gear. You just need to wear suspenders and everyone I see shooting at the cowboy shoots wears them. They really add to the authinticty of the out fit. It took me about 5 years to acquire all the guns and clothing that was needed. I started getting all the stuff together about 5 years before I retired. I've been doing the cowboy shoots for 11 years now.

Noz
January 19, 2011, 11:34 AM
http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/MTLeadDispencer1316.wmv

Here is the best.

13.16 seconds, 24 rounds from 4 different guns of 3 different types.

This is what we are all trying to do with varying levels of success.

Anyone that is even semi competent with a handgun can hit a 12-16 inch plate placed at 5-7 yards using their choice of style of shooting. If you think cowboy is a joke try this: http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/DeucePistol2.44.wmv

2.44 seconds from 2 pistols shot single action taken from and replaced into leather.

Rifle? http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/Deuce_Stevens_Rifle_1.73.wmv

Shotgun? http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/Savage_Sam_2.64.wmv That's 4 shotgun shells fired by the way, started open and empty, load 2 from body, fire, shuck, load 2 from body and fire. No ejectors allowed.


Not the joke it is portrayed to be.

And yes, I enjoy dressing like Howdy Doody. I even take it farther than that on occasion. Here is yours truly making a Dooley Gang presentation.

Magnum Wheel Man
January 19, 2011, 12:17 PM
I watched a couple of mounted cowboy shoots last year, & thought it was awesome... but I don't have a horse :o & no intentions of getting one :(

so doing some cowboy shoots would be fun... I have enough shooting gear to start ( so long as the Ruger Montados are legal or the 32 mag single six ) don't really have a pistol caliber lever, unless my 50 A.E. counts... but I have been wanting one in 357 / 38 anyway... I have a really nice original rabbit ear 12 ga

can a shooter use a powder like Trailboss ( I have some black powder, but for lazyness in cleaning I prefer Trailboss in my loads )

ever any events in northern IA or southern MN ??? if so... how does one get started ???

Noz
January 19, 2011, 12:53 PM
The mounted shooters shoot blanks at balloons, we shoot real bullets at steel.

What you have in pistol and shotgun would be fine. Always rifles to lend at every shoot. Come on and make some noise. Only about 12% of the Cowboy Shooters shoot black powder and a much smaller percentage shoot cap and ball, we are just louder. Trail Boss was invented for CAS.

Go to SASSnet.com. Open Members. On a bar across the page is affiliated clubs. Click on the state you want and the SASS clubs in that state will come up. There are 3 Iowa clubs and 8 MN clubs listed. Look around at the bordering states and there are a bunch. I know it's not next door but there are 3 MAJOR shoots at the World Shooting Complex in Sparta Ill. These are super shoots with up to 300+ shooters. Not a good place to start but a good place to see what it's all about.
Call the numbers listed on the clubs closest to you for more information on shoot times etc. Tell them you are a newbie.

mykeal
January 19, 2011, 12:59 PM
I must have missed something; I saw some people say they didn't personally see the point in trying to fire 3 different guns rapidly at short ranges, but I don't recall anyone saying it was a joke.

Tanker6
January 19, 2011, 03:01 PM
Noz said: "I even take it farther than that on occasion. Here is yours truly making a Dooley Gang presentation."

I think one of my club members was talkin' 'bout you at a recent shoot. He was laughin' about you getting them braids snarled up in yer rifle lever or some such while shootin' a stage....had us all rollin'. :D I think that woulda been Comin' at Ya last year (before I started shootin').

I'm a SASS newbie (along with my 13 y/o daughter). I can confirm that the folks in SASS are some of the most hospitable and welcomin' people you'll find on this planet. Over the last 4-5 weeks, I've been diligently hunting and buying SASS-compliant shootin' irons. What I don't have, other folks loan us. As I type this, I've purchased three pistols and one rifle. The fourth pistol is on "permanent loan" from another club member. He bought it on GB because "I just knew that it would match your daughter's other one, so I thought you'd want it eventually." The rifle I just bought last weekend from another member. The price was just above charity. The shotgun is on "permanent loan" from another fella in the club. He doesn't want to sell it (at least not yet), but we can use it (and take it home and practice with it) until we find one of our own. My daugher's been given (literally) 4-5 wild rags (scarves), a wild rag holder, and a well used (but serviceable) leather rig to hold her pistols. Another nice lady sold her a used duster (in A-1 shape) for $5 at a recent shoot when it was cold. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

I cannot speak highly enough about the people we've met in SASS.

As for "the point" of SASS.....well, I was a shooter in other venues before starting SASS. "The Point" was to win....be the top shooter....be "the man." SASS isn't that at all. Do we keep score? Sure. But I'm having a lot more fun doing this than that other stuff I was doing before. I was happy that I made it to "the middle" of the score sheet on my first shoot. And, with my background, I thought it would be really easy to shoot <40 second stages.....NOT! I've done 4 shoots so far and I think I have 2 stages under 40 seconds. It's not as easy as it looks. But, back to "the point"......the only person I'm competing with is me. If there's any pressure to shoot good or fast, I put it on myself. And the same guy who's loaned me guns to shoot is the same guy that I beat a couple of shoots ago.....and after the results came out, he called me at work to congradulate me! That don't happy anywhere else.

To me, that's "the point." FWIW.

Jim March
January 19, 2011, 03:23 PM
I don't think my gun is SASS legal any more:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2793/4258670610_57f5801536.jpg

I'm designing a CO2-powered ejector system and a spring-loaded-in-a-tube "injector" speedloader. When I can get my reload times down around 3sec or so I'll go play with the IPSC revolver class guys, go freak the hell out of 'em :D.

sewerman
January 19, 2011, 05:45 PM
i'm gearing up for this hobby and only want to shoot my black powder remington 1858.
i made my jute/web cartridge belt with 45/70 rds in the loops just for looks.
my outfit will be all left over clothes from my C.W. days.
my friend made some slim jim holsters.
my question: is there a shoot just for pistols or will i need all the other guns?

thanx,

s.m.

Tanker6
January 19, 2011, 07:29 PM
sm, you'll need the lever action rifle and a shotgun. In fact, if you load BP in your rifle cartridges and use either a SXS or lever-action shotgun with BP loads, you can shoot Frontiersman (a category that I find VERY cool). Lot's of smoke, lots of cool points, and not a lot a shooters in that category (least as far as I've seen).

While it may be a year or two down the road for me, I hope to shoot in that category eventually.

If you don't have the other guns, don't worry about it. Show up and shoot. Somebody'll let you borrow a gun here or there. Heck, if you show up at my shoot, you can borrow my new '92. :)

sewerman
January 20, 2011, 10:12 AM
hey tanker6 thanks for the info.

i have a .357 marlin will that qualify as a lever...1894 model?

yes in fact i do have a muzzle load shotgun which i purchased for a C.W. event "Bummers over georgia", which i never attended.

if the 1894 will do then i 'm happy with not having to purchase another rifle, though the rifle will not acompilment my historical impression 1866-1873...I can always ditch it if photos are taken .

s.m.

Noz
January 20, 2011, 10:46 AM
Frontiersman is my category. It requires two cap and ball pistols with fixed sights, a cowboy legal lever gun and a SxS(with or without exposed hammers) or lever action shot gun. All must be loaded with black powder or subs. Pistols must be shot duelist.
Frankly, the learning curve for this category is fairly steep. It can be very frustrating for a beginner until they begin to learn the hows and whys of care and feeding of these pistols. Takes a while.
Dealing with the smoke and the 1860 era engineering of the guns makes things much more difficult than shooting modern guns.
An example is a State match I attended in 2008 had around 200 shooters. The best score shot by a Frontiersman(one of the best in the country st the time) put him in 43 place.

darwins
January 20, 2011, 10:47 AM
Sewerman,

Yes, your Marlin 1894 is acceptable for CAS events. I just bought a Marlin 1894 in .357 specifically for cowboy action shooting.

sewerman
January 20, 2011, 12:25 PM
thanks dawins........:)

s.m.

Magnum Wheel Man
January 20, 2011, 12:37 PM
BTW... I found a way to get on the SASS site... turns out they hold state championships pretty close to where I live... I'll definately have to go watch a monthly match in April & see if I get a good feeling from that group ( there are 2-3 other clubs within reasonable driving distances ) but I think I'd like to try shooting this summer...

looked at the results from last years monthly matches, & the best times looked to be in the 20's ( seconds ) ( I know... newbie talking here ), but would seem reasonable that after va summer of shooting monthly matches, I should be ableto at least get close to those times ???

Noz
January 20, 2011, 02:49 PM
As in most things, speed comes from experience and dedication. Practice is a dirty word but it really does help.
For the average shooter with new guns, I would say it will take more than a summer to get into the 20 second range. Again it will depend on the effort you are willing to put into it.

Sure is fun to try though.

Call the contact number listed before you go and let them know you are coming. Then introductions are over and you can begin an immediate integration.

Tanker6
January 21, 2011, 11:27 AM
I'm smilin' as I type this.....:D......that's cuz I said pretty much the same thing -- "It shouldn't be that hard to break 30 seconds....I'm a good shooter who's been shootin' regularly for more than 20 years.....I'm ex-military....always shot expert in every weapon.....I just haven't fired a single action pistol before." :p

Well, I've shot 4 shoots now. Most of the shoots had six stages. I've broken 40 twice. :rolleyes:

I can't tell you how many times I've shot a stage so far and thought, "That should be pretty good" and have the timer announce, "44.87" or some such. :cool: I also remember hearin', "36.33......with a P" (which is a penalty for shooting a target out of order....and adding 5 seconds to your time). :(

The funny thing is this -- I don't really care. Do I want to shoot faster? Sure. But the thing is, it doesn't really matter as much cuz I'm havin' fun.

Now, my 13 y/o came within 20 seconds of beating me at our last shoot (overrall time), and THAT might set a fire under me a bit. :)

Magnum Wheel Man
January 21, 2011, 12:15 PM
OK... well in all fairness I was orginally thinking each gun was a stage :o ( I was wondering how those guys were killing 20 seconds to shoot 4 shot with a shotgun :o )

meaning I was thinking I could start out at 60 seconds, & go down from there :rolleyes:

I was trying to look at it realistically...

still I used to race ATV's well into my "senior" ( senior for ATV racing anyways ) years... been shooting for most of my adult life, have my own rifle & pistol range, I'm an avid handloader, & was able to copy off the 12 stages from last years state championship ( I know they'll change regularly ) but that should help me practice similar types of stages ( something most newbies might not get how to practice ) I'm thinking I'll go & watch one of the 1st this spring ( hopefully practice several times before that ) & maybe go up to shoot the 2nd event they have...

I'm now shopping for a rifle...

BTW... can I load brass shells for the shotgun ??? ( I'd assume I can )

as a budding holster maker, any suggestions off the top for holsters ???

I currently have a stamp tooled double holster rig ( cheaper unit given to me for Christmas a couple years ago )... I'll make a leather shell holder for my belt ( can I make a leather one for the gun ??? )

any other tips you guys want to offer to a newbie ???

Fingers McGee
January 21, 2011, 12:27 PM
BTW... can I load brass shells for the shotgun ??? ( I'd assume I can )

You assume correctly.

Tanker6
January 21, 2011, 01:05 PM
...and the brass shells sound "really kewl" (according to my daughter again) when they shuck outta the SXS. ;)

I think they use large pistol primers, but I'm not positive.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,314.html

Red Cent
January 21, 2011, 05:06 PM
Noz, you're holding out. You ain't told them about money. Say travelin' to Conyers, GA for the Southeast Regional (since moved to South Carolina). Lets see, Wednesday night through Saturday night is around $400.00 at the Holiday Inn. The three bottles of Dickel ran around $38.00 each. Fuel for the diesel was about $300.00. Twelve miles to the gallon pulling the trailer. Steaks and drinks each night runs about $75.00 a night. Gotta pick up a new hat for around $200.00. The turquoise necklace for the wife ran about $70.00. Add some more for some Silver Bullets. Well you can see what I mean.

Some years back I would talk to someone about equipment for a long time. I changed to a simple question. "Can you afford to pay almost $2000.00 for just your guns?" You could see the glaze come over most of 'em.

Ramblins from a guy who would give almost anything to be thirty years old and starting in cowboy (with money in my pocket).

I had the most fun in my life travelin' and shooting cowboy. As you have been told, you will never meet a more hospitable group. I have participated in a number of shooting disciplines but Cowboy is the best. I was/am ate up with it. I participated from 2000 to about 2007.

This is/was my guncart. Called the Fluffymobile. My nickname (not my alias) is Fluffy .Long story.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/IMG_0382.jpg

The FluffyHauler is in the background. Thats a E350 Ford 6.0 diesel to your right. The Chevy 15 passenger 350 couldn't hack it.

Double Aught, how long you been shooting?

Looking at cowboy, one would think it is easy. Nope. Unless you have shot a match or two, you ain't got a clue.

Forget about power factors. Join, shoot, and then start your campaign.

To be real competitive you have to have the desire to do what it takes. Practice, practice, practice. And not just shooting. How to draw. Can you close your eyes, hit the gun at the sound of the buzzer, fire five rounds fast (I don't care if you hit something) and with eyes still closed, hit the holster with that gun while you are pulling the other pistol, transfer to the shooting hand and fire five more.
Firearms transitions. Never let idle moments occur during a stage. You and your hands and your feet are always moving.
You saw the videos. Awesome ain't it.

Is it Saturday yet?

Red Cent
January 21, 2011, 05:12 PM
Magnum Wheel Fan, go to some matches. Real low like, mention to someone you would like try some rifles. Too loud and you will be buried.

#3 Marlin
#2 1866 Winchester (replica)
#1 1873 Winchester (replica)

I am aware what they cost.

If you are TRULY competitive, get 38s.

Red Cent
January 21, 2011, 05:17 PM
Noz, you're holding out. You ain't told them about money. Say travelin' to Conyers, GA for the Southeast Regional (since moved to South Carolina). Lets see, Wednesday night through Saturday night is around $400.00 at the Holiday Inn. The three bottles of Dickel ran around $38.00 each. Fuel for the diesel was about $300.00. Twelve miles to the gallon pulling the trailer. Steaks and drinks each night runs about $75.00 a night. Gotta pick up a new hat for around $200.00. The turquoise necklace for the wife ran about $70.00. Add some more for some Silver Bullets. Well you can see what I mean.

Some years back I would talk to someone about equipment for a long time. I changed to a simple question. "Can you afford to pay almost $2000.00 for just your guns?" You could see the glaze come over most of 'em.

Ramblins from a guy who would give almost anything to be thirty years old and starting in cowboy (with money in my pocket).

I had the most fun in my life travelin' and shooting cowboy. As you have been told, you will never meet a more hospitable group. I have participated in a number of shooting disciplines but Cowboy is the best. I was/am ate up with it. I participated from 2000 to about 2007.

This is/was my guncart. Called the Fluffymobile. My nickname (not my alias) is Fluffy .Long story.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/IMG_0382.jpg

The FluffyHauler is in the background. Thats a E350 Ford 6.0 diesel to your right. The Chevy 15 passenger 350 couldn't hack it.

Double Aught, how long you been shooting?

Looking at cowboy, one would think it is easy. Nope. Unless you have shot a match or two, you ain't got a clue.

Forget about power factors. Join, shoot, and then start your campaign.

To be real competitive you have to have the desire to do what it takes. Practice, practice, practice. And not just shooting. How to draw. Can you close your eyes, hit the gun at the sound of the buzzer, fire five rounds fast (I don't care if you hit something) and with eyes still closed, hit the holster with that gun while you are pulling the other pistol, transfer to the shooting hand and fire five more.
Firearms transitions. Never let idle moments occur during a stage. You and your hands and your feet are always moving.
You saw the videos. Awesome ain't it.

Is it Saturday yet?

Jbar4Ranch
January 21, 2011, 08:48 PM
I'm coming for your badge, Dillon!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/jbar4ranch/GoodGuyJbar.jpg

Red Cent
January 21, 2011, 10:53 PM
HA!!! You think you have a handful !!!













http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Redandthegirls.jpg

Roaddog
January 22, 2011, 07:28 AM
HOT DAM! Were do I sign up Red Cent?

Jbar4Ranch
January 22, 2011, 09:44 AM
Two pair wins every time!

But, then again...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/jbar4ranch/MyCASpard.jpg

:D

fal308
January 23, 2011, 07:42 PM
Magnum Wheel Man, for leather ideas pick up the book Packing Iron - Gunleather of the Frontier West by Richard C Rattenbury. This is a great book with lots of pictures.

BODAME
January 23, 2011, 11:50 PM
I have shot Cowboy on and off for the last 5 Years and have loved every
minute of it. Picking your Alias is part of being a SASS Cowboy.
Once everybody learns your Alias you have lost your real name to all your Pards. I am Hagen to everybody now.
I shoot 45 Colt Guns cause thats what my cousin Festus Hagen carried in all his movies.
Come on out to a Match , if you don't have what you need one of us will
get it for you. We usually have some good cookin to share also
Always Remember:
"Don't squat with your spurs on."
"Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so important to know what it is, but it's good to know what it was."
"Always drink your whiskey with your gun hand, to show your friendly intentions."
"Never try to dry a wet pair of jeans in the oven."

Double Ought Hagen

Magnum Wheel Man
January 24, 2011, 10:04 AM
awesome pics & suggestions guys...

got a couple more questions...

my local mentor ( not a cowboy ), but retired gun smith, tool & die guy, & life long bullet caster & reloader... suggested I get a 45 Colt rifle, because my revolvers are 45 Colt... ( that way I'd only have to carry one cartridge, rather than 2 different ones )( personally I do shoot some 357, & that was my 1st gun, so over the years, I've accumulated probably 1500 - 357 & 38 special cases ) but now there are so many other intersting cartridges to shoot, so I rarely shoot my 357's anymore, so I was thinking about a 357 mag lever gun, to make use of some of those cases... ( if I was going to start shooting "cowboy" I'd have to pick up at least another 500 - 45 Colt cases ) thoughts ???

also I don't currently load shotgun shells, & don't have room to start, since my loading bench has also crossed over to my leather working bench as well... that's why I was thinking about doing brass shells... until I get to that point, are there cowboy loads commercially available for the 12 ga ??? mine is an old fluid steel barrel double with rebounding firing pins, & rabbit hammers, that has been shortened to "coach length", so even though it has the fluid steel barrels, I'm going to want reasonably light loads in that gun...

... even before I was seriously looking at doing cowboy, I had been looking at making a leather 4 or 6 shell holder that would mount to the forearm of the shotgun... would it be legal for the shells to be mounted on the shotgun ??? even though in thinking about it, the belt mounted shell holder would likely be faster... but curious if I can build the shell holder for the "coach" & use it in cowboy ???

... side matches... I have a collection of original spur trigger revolvers, & am customizing a Ruger Montado into a pocket / belly gun... I have several S&W 32 S&W spur triggers ( one I actually use for CCW ) & several 38 S&W spur triggers ( again one I also use for CCW ) what kinds of fun can a guy have with these antique S&W's & my new Ruger belly gun ???

BTW... RED... I didn't know modern "mules" would be allowed... here's mine... ( folding chairs mount to the aluminum diamond plate roof for spectating )

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33918&d=1215002005

I figured I'd have to use my "lil wooden wagon" I built for my wife's cousins muzzle loader shoot to haul guns & coolers, etc... it's all wood ( including the wheels ) it's held together with square head nails, & blind screwed for reinforcement... pulls with a rope, & was built from wood stored in a shed for a long time that was all chewed up by the rodents, so it looks like it was straight out of the 1800's

Magnum Wheel Man
January 24, 2011, 10:55 AM
I went through Midway's website "cowboy" & found the dies & shell holder to load the brass shells, but did not find commercial cowboy loads... ??? is there a source for already loaded shells until I can get started on the brass shells ??? I see Buffalo Arms has black powder shells, but no smokeless powder shells...

I also didn't remember seeing a specification for shot size or charges for the shot shells... I can go back to their website & look again, but would appreciate any suggestions there as well

Noz
January 24, 2011, 11:24 AM
I'll answer a few of your questions:

45 Colt rifle. It's always easier to load for one cartridge rather than several. The 45 Colt was never chambered in any of the old rifles. It seems to have difficulty expanding, under cowboy loads, enough to seal the chamber and prevent blowback. You'll have to talk to some who do shoot them for particulars.

Shot gun shells must be carried "on your body" not on the gun. Shell belts unsecured bandeleros, belt slides all work well. My personal choice is an 8 shell slide on a plain belt. The shells are held in 2 shell pockets to make it easier to grab two to load the SxS.

The shotgun you have will work well. I'd have the barrels checked then shoot it. The SASS rule on shot size is #4 or smaller. A lot of ranges have initiated #6 or smaller and some #7 1/2 or smaller. 8s or 9s will work quite well.

Mule: If you are handicapped then go for it. No rule against it however the clubs that allow unlimited use of them either have a LOT of room or they have unhappy shooters that try to walk around the traffic jams. I don't like them.

You can make a portable(bolt to the bench) loading stand for pistols rifle and shotgun. Paying retail will get really old, really fast.

Sounds like you are ready to go.

Tanker6
January 24, 2011, 12:27 PM
Noz nailed most of it, but I'm chime in about a couple of things you mentioned MWM.

I chose 38 special over 45 for two reasons. First, my 13 y/o is shooting with me and the lower recoil was attractive. The other thing, which may apply to you, is that loading boat-loads of 38 is cheaper in the long run in powder and bullet components. I agree with Noz that loading for one caliber is infinitely easier, however, but that's something else for you to consider.

As for "store bought" shotgun ammo, (again, in consideration of my 13 y/o) my store loads are the Winchester AA "Low Recoil/Low Noise" variety. She's spoiled on those after our first 5-6 shoots, so I guess when I start reloading shotgun, I'll have to replicate that load. It really is a "non-event" to shoot if you've ever shot anything else out of a shotgun. I've found these fairly available at Wal-Mart, Gander and Academy (if that info helps).

I've recently acquired a MEC 650 in "less than fair" condition that I'm putting back together, so I'm saving my hulls in anticipation. :)

Magnum Wheel Man
January 24, 2011, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the replys guys... nope not handicapped ( although I might have been called names before :o ) I guess I never honestly thought about bring "my mule" but maybe my wooden wagon described above would help tote "lead" around...

thanks for the suggestions on the shotgun stuff ( I have many, but rarely shoot much more than .410 anymore )

looks like one of my next projects will be a shell belt holder & ordering 50 or so brass 12 ga shells ( I'm hoping to load all my stuff at home, so I can take in more of the whole scene, & not be stuck reloading during the event )

any comments on the side matches with the single action pocket guns ???

BTW... check both my 1st choice & 2nd for SASS names, & neither was taken, so I'll be registering there soon

Magnum Wheel Man
January 24, 2011, 03:45 PM
ooops... found a conflict with my Montados I think... from the SASS handbook...

No portion of the grip frame may be checkered, stippled, serrated or otherwise modified to
constitute a grip enhancement.

my pair of consecutive serialed Montados are very early manufacture, where the front of the grip frame has vertical grooves machined into it...

( I think I might have read about this before ??? )

do I need to polish out those grooves, so the grip frame is smooth ??? my newer Montado that I bought to put the birdshead grip frame on for my belly gun has a smooth grip frame... so maybe the best bet would to be to order another smooth grip frame & save my 2 grooved frames to keep with the revolvers ???

your guys suggestions would be greatly appreciated

arcticap
January 25, 2011, 03:01 AM
I went through Midway's website "cowboy" & found the dies & shell holder to load the brass shells, but did not find commercial cowboy loads... ???

Now I understand, post #47. :)

Magnum Wheel Man
January 25, 2011, 07:39 AM
sorry... maybe I wasn't that clear... I can load my own 45 Colt ( have cast bullets & Trailboss powder on hand already )... I was more looking for some sort of Cowboy load for the Shottie, since I don't currently load shot gun shells, & my shotgun I'd use is actually almost of period, as far as age...

... TANKER suggested the low noise / low recoil Winchester... that's likely what I'll start out with, until I see if I want to try loading brass shells...

Magnum Wheel Man
January 25, 2011, 10:40 AM
think these would be Ok for an old double in Cowboy competition ???

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=424753

Tanker6
January 25, 2011, 12:34 PM
Those are probably ok (I've never shot 'em), but I will point out that the muzzle velocity listed on those is quite a bit higher (1200 v. 980).

http://www.winchester.com/Products/shotshell-ammunition/winlite-low-recoil/low-recoil-low-noise-target-load/Pages/AA12FL8.aspx

I don't remember exactly where I read it, but there was a bunch of skeet shooters griping about the Winchester loads noted above because they were so slow that they had trouble adjusting their lead on the target birds. :rolleyes: In the circumstances that we shoot CAS, I found that to be a "plus" :D.

Looks like Cheaper Than Dirt and Midway are either out or don't sell these shells. I did find them at Gander Mtn online and Bass Pro Shops:

http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=413511&pdesc=12_Gauge_Shot_26_gm&aID=503AI2&merchID=4006

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_67999____SearchResults

I normally buy them at my local Academy, Wal-Mart or Gander off the shelf for $7.50-8.50/box.