View Full Version : Difference in Remington pre 11 series autoloder & Model 11
January 17, 2011, 06:32 PM
I have been lurking and learning for a while now but now I have some questions if someone would be so nice as to help me. I acquired a Remington autoloader from 1908 (so I was told) over the weekend and would like to find out more about it. Information on the internet is somewhat limited. I have found a lot of info on the Model 11 but this one not so much. This one is pretty nice with what I believe to original finish on both barrels and the receiver. It needs a little attention so I would like to find a parts breakdown for this particular model which seems to be elusive. I have found a good one on the Model 11 but from what I have read they aren't exactly the same. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
January 17, 2011, 08:49 PM
Greetings randy71116, and welcome from Lurkersville,
Yes, there are pre-Model-11 Browning design Remington shotguns. In 1910 you could get the upgraded No. 3 "Trap" grade Remington Autoloading Shotgun for the list price of $50! You'll find a little info on this gun at the Remington Society's thread info for pre - model 11 (http://www.remingtonsociety.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2951&start=0&sid=13c2c4e8c1b3b0fa303c1d8af6957578)
January 17, 2011, 10:30 PM
If you go to Remington's website, they should have a contact us tab. Shoot them an email with the serial number and they'll tell you what make/model it is, as well as what grade, and what year it was produced.
January 18, 2011, 01:49 AM
Welcome to our little obsession.
The Remington Autoloading Shotgun was not called the Model 11 until 1911. A Model 11 diagram will give you an accurate parts breakdown, except possibly for the safety mechanism, which was changed in the 1920s. There are a lot of these old shotgund around, value on them has not kept up with the Browning A5s.
January 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
I know this thing isn't worth much. I ended up with it in a trade over the weekend. It came with two barrels both serialed to the receiver. The only thing I see wrong is the trigger plate screw is backed out about a 1/4" or so and seems to be pretty tight. I haven't fooled with it much. Should that screw move in and out easily? I've never been accused of being a gunsmith but I don't know anyone around where I live that I would feel comfortable taking it to.
It's not worth spending a lot of money on.
January 18, 2011, 08:27 AM
With a extra barrel serial numbered to the gun, it may be worth more than you think.
The extra barrels were the only way to get different chokes at that time. Not many shotguns came that way, they were ordered from the factory with the extra barrel, extra cost option.
January 18, 2011, 08:58 AM
This was part of a trade over the weekend. It was sort off a sweetener as I was mostly interested in the other gun I got in the trade. I knew these weren't worth a whole lot but I knew having both serialed barrels couldn't be anything but a plus. I'm just wondering about that trigger plate screw and how hard that's going to be to remedy. Thanks for the replies guys and keep them coming.
January 18, 2011, 09:54 AM
On the trigger plate or lower tang there are two screws actually three. The larger one with the smaller lock screw is the tang screw, the smaller one closer to the trigger guard is the main spring screw. It holds the mainspring in place. At least thats how it is on a Browning A5 and the Remington 11 is a licensed copy/duplicate/clone of the A5.
January 21, 2011, 09:21 AM
I'm guessing someone took the mainspring screw out and cross threaded it back in. I have a pre 11 thats my daily companion. The only thing I noticed thats different is one of the pins in the bolt, I disremember exactly what. Seems like it slips in and out with a headed pin that has to be drifted in and out on the pre 11s.
The barrels dont match on mine:
January 21, 2011, 04:19 PM
The previous owner said the threads weren't stripped but it seems pretty tight to me. I haven't fooled with it and probably won't for a while.
January 21, 2011, 09:15 PM
jagxk120, the Remington Model 11 is not a licensed copy or clone of the A-5.
To begin with, parts are generally not interchangable between the guns.
John M. Browning designed (and patented the design of) this autoloading shotgun (in the US), presumably based on American (ie. non-metric )measurements. I don't know much about the patent process, but I think he probably had to produce a working model of his design to obtain his patent. That would have been the first gun manufactured to the patent specs.
He later licensed Fabrique Nationale of Leige, Belgium to produce and sell their version of his patented shotgun design in Europe and some other places. These were A-5's, which were manufactured to European metric specs.
Browning later licensed Remington to produce and sell an American version of his patented autoloading shotgun design in the US. Remington manufactured their autoloader to the original American style (non-metric) specs (SAE?).
There were significant differences between the FN and Remington versions of the Browning design that went beyond the difference in Eurpoean/American measurements employed in their manufacture :
A-5's have double-clawed ejectors. Remington autoloaders have single-claw ejectors. Both seem to work equally well.
A-5's have a magazine stop as a standard feature.
Remington's Model 11's did not have a magazine stop.
A-5's continued with the original (suicide)safety in front of the trigger until the start of WWII.
In 1928, Remington re- designed the safety on their autoloaders to a safer behind the trigger design.
After the Germans overran Belgium in WWII, Remington manufactured A-5's for FN in the US. This appears to be when the A-5 safety was changed to be identical with that of the Remington Model 11.
After WWII, the ejectors on these guns were still different, and the A-5 still had a magazine stop that the Model 11 never had, but after the A-5 aped the Remington safety, if either gun could be considered a clone of the other, it would be A-5 that was the clone.
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