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9mm
January 17, 2011, 12:27 PM
Which is the better one? 223 or 308? was looking at getting one at the end of the year. I want to put a scope on it also, but I have no idea what is a good scope for under $300 and if a $300 < scope would work up to 500 yards. Gun is like $550 ... 223 is way cheaper than 308 but the 308 goes longer range? 223 is weak.

Thoughts? and pictures please...

WyomingWhitetail
January 17, 2011, 12:37 PM
Depends on what your going to use the gun for. Both cartridges are great rounds. The .223 is great for varmits and other general purpose shooting and is much cheaper and easier on your shoulder to shoot. If you are planning on hunting or shooting very long range competitions then the .308 would probably be better. So what are you planning on doing with it?

9mm
January 17, 2011, 01:03 PM
shooting very long range competitions. I figure its cheaper to shoot this way than to stand on the range blasting off a ar-15 or ak47

I am looking at this gun for christmas for myself, and selling another rifle making this one almost free lol..

thesheepdog
January 17, 2011, 01:04 PM
Have you ever even shot that distance before? If not, I wouldn't be complaining about the .223 being weak. If you really want to learn long range Marksmanship, get a .223/5.56 and practice till you can hit Sub MOA groups at 400+ yards without a bench rest, bipod or sling.
A $300 scope is just room for error. Unless you can find a used IOR/Weaver/Zeiss for that price, I would stick with a more expensive scope, or just using battle Iron Sights (on most battle rifles/assault rifles).

Also, you need to attend either an Appleseed Marksmanship clinic, or something from CMP, or just ge lucky and have a seasoned LR shooter work with you.

Long Range shooting is fun, but it takes practice, a knowledge base, and good equipment. You don't have to purchase thousands of dollars of equipment; you just need a decent firearm with decent sights/optics and plenty of ammo.

9mm
January 17, 2011, 01:06 PM
I understand long range takes some time to learn, you need to sight in the scope. I am not looking past 500 yards.

What are some good scopes? I do not want to spend $500+ that would be the price of the gun.

thesheepdog
January 17, 2011, 02:21 PM
9mm,

I have listed a few that I prefer and that I have experience with. They aren't cheap, but they aren't too expensive either.

Are you sure you want a bolt gun first? 500 yards isn't much for most centerfire rifles; again MOST centerfires.
But if your heart is set on a centerfire bolt rifle, then I would suggest you getting the .223 model. You will save a lot of money on ammo and it will still shoot well out past 600 yards with the right ammo.

For a good scope: Weaver makes some awesome scopes with good glass (I wouldn't call it excellent) and they are very durable with repeatable clicks.
For now I wouldn't spend the extra money on illuminated reticles and stuff like that.

Incognito
January 17, 2011, 05:40 PM
Here's mine, it's an SPS 700 Varmint in .308 Winchester. It might not be "tactical" but I like it. Here's what it cost me:

• Rifle ..................................... $325
• B&C stock ............................. $204
• Ken Farrell scope base ............. $110
• TPS TRS rings ........................ $60
• Nikon Monarch 6-24X50 ........... $320 (Amazon.com)
• Bipod .................................... $30 (Walmart)

Total with taxes & shipping was approximately $1200

Another thing to consider would be to reload your own ammo if you want to shoot more, save a little money, and
make ammunition specifically for your rifle.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll285/electrikladyland/Armas%20de%20Fuego/Lamps005-1.jpg

9mm
January 17, 2011, 07:01 PM
How far does 223 shoot in a remington 700 vs a 308? I know the 308 is more powerful. But I am just looking for range not so much stopping power. I am not going to use it for hunting.

^ why was your rifle $325 vs $550ish for the tactical models, whats the differences? is it just a stock? or is it the barrel/finish bolt?

Maybe I do not need the tactical model.

m&p45acp10+1
January 17, 2011, 07:59 PM
I am unsure of the how far you can get a .223 to consitantly group at extended ranges in a Remington. I purchased a Savage Model 12 Long range Varmint in .223 Rem. I am working up some handloads for it. Cost with a BSA MilDot Varmint 6-24x42 IR, with base and rings was just under a thousand dollars.

It will drive tacks at distances farther than I will probably ever shoot at. I was shooting 16 ounce water bottles at 300 yards this weekend using Hornady V-Max 55 grain bullets. Between my girlfriend and myself not one was missed out of 60.

Here is a picture of the rifle.

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss180/n8tex254/12121639421-1-1.jpg


Here is a picture of the test load from this weekend. This is my now go to load. 68 grain Hornady HPBT Match loaded with AA 2015 with a COL of 2.260 inches

http://i573.photobucket.com/albums/ss180/n8tex254/targetpic7-1.jpg

Incognito
January 18, 2011, 01:16 AM
^ why was your rifle $325 vs $550ish for the tactical models, whats the differences? is it just a stock? or is it the barrel/finish bolt?
Sportman's Warehouse had a factory offer of 20% off when I bought it :D but I've heard of folks regularly purchasing these for under $400.
Between the Tactical model and the Varmint the differences are a 20" inch barrel vs. a 26" inch barrel (varmint), and Hogue overmolded pillar stock vs. cheap injection molded polymer (varmint). Besides that they're identical.

Incognito
January 18, 2011, 01:36 AM
How far does 223 shoot in a remington 700 vs a 308? I know the 308 is more powerful. But I am just looking for range not so much stopping power. I am not going to use it for hunting.
I no expert, but when talking about range, the heavier albeit slower .308 bullet will shoot more accurately farther out than the light .223 bullets. It's similar to the difference between throwing a dime, and throwing a quater. The heavier the bullet, the less it will be affected in flight.

Que
January 28, 2011, 01:45 PM
If I could only have one rifle for long range shooting it would be in .308. As I already have a few in .308 (a Savage 12 VLP and a Savage 10FP in .308 and a few 700's) I decided to pick up a 700 SPS Tactical in .223. It's going to be interesting to see what it will do, but I think that the .308 has more potential for distance shooting.

BTW, the rifle was $599, the mount/rings is a DNZ Game Reaper ($50) with a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 ($165, already had the scope) until I can pick up an SWFA SuperSniper. For $800 I can get started with this rifle.

precision_shooter
January 28, 2011, 02:36 PM
I know it's not a Remington, but here is what I just purchased as my Mid-Range target rifle.
Savage Model 10FCP .308, came with the Choate Tactical Stock already installed.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=66450&d=1295643673

I don't have a pic with everything mounted, but here is what everything cost me.

Everything below is including tax.

Rifel: Savage 10FCP - $703.61
Base: Weaver 1-piece picatinny - $27.05
Rings: Leupold PRW medium rings - $54.11
Scope: Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 30mm tube - $286 shipped.
Bi-pod - Harris Bench Rest model - $54.11

Total = $1,124.88

FALPhil
January 28, 2011, 05:49 PM
9mm, Que and Precision shooter are pointing out something that I think you ought to consider - the Savage short action. I own several Remingtons and a couple of Savages. My experience is that the Savage platform much easier to be accurate with. My Savage rifles digest just about any ammo I feed them with equivalent accuracy. The Remingtons, OTOH, are finicky.

It's hard to beat the Accu-trigger as well. To get that good a trigger on a Remington, you are going to spend at least $60 on a trigger job - more if you decide to replace the trigger. You can adjust a Remington trigger to be lighter than it comes from the factory, but they tend to go off if you accidentally drop the rifle when you do. Not a good thing. Many people put aftermarket triggers in their Remingtons for this very reason.

If this is your first foray into long range, seriously consider the Savage.

bigalshootmupper
January 28, 2011, 08:24 PM
First off, 308 ammo is not that more expensive than 223. You can find quality 308 brass ammo for $0.45 every day versus about $0.35 for 223.

Second, I own the Rem 700 Tactical in 308 and it shoots better than me. I have only owned it about 6 months and used it through the entire deer season so I haven't yet perfected any reloads for it. I did find a 165gr Nolser BT shot 1" at 200yards easily. It dropped a 180lb 8 pointer in its tracks.

Third, the trigger is as good as the Jewell trigger on my LR-308. Right now, I have it set so light that it is way too light for hunting. It is crisp.

Definitely a high value for $550. I say get the 308 as it and the ammo is a better value than the 223. For like 25% more in ammo price, you get a much better round for long range shooting. Plus, the recoil in this 308 rifle is nothing. You can shoot it all day and never get fatigued.