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strong45side
January 16, 2011, 01:03 PM
I was curious what makes say a normal 45 load different from a cowboy load? Does it have something to do with a slower fps to simulate old black powder loads?

darwins
January 16, 2011, 07:09 PM
I don't know that I know the definitive answer to your question but I assume cowboy loads are loaded to a lesser pressure for one or both of two reasons:
1) less chance of damaging the targets
2) allows for better control

Hawg Haggen
January 16, 2011, 07:37 PM
It's to keep pressures on a par with bp loads.

Newton24b
January 16, 2011, 10:58 PM
cowboy loads are simply a load that will get a bullet of a given weight out of the barrel of a handgun or rifle and have it hit the target and make it bounce.

and when you compare the ballistics of cowboy ammunition, you NEED a lever gun to get the velocity and energy the normal HANDGUN load developed in 1880.

B.L.E.
January 16, 2011, 11:00 PM
If the box says cowboy action loads, it is loaded with lead, not jacketed bullets, as per SASS rules.
Also, they are loaded mild because cowboy action shooting is a shooting race where you shoot a bunch of targets against the clock and mild loads just let you shoot faster.

salvadore
January 17, 2011, 12:56 AM
I was curious what makes say a normal 45 load different from a cowboy load? Does it have something to do with a slower fps to simulate old black powder loads?

If the youtube vids I've seen are typical, I'd say black powder loads of yore were a lot more powerful than the squibs I was seeing in the videos.

I know there are a lot of cowboys in here, and I don't want to sound contentious, but that game is in major need of a power factor.

45-70 Chevron
January 17, 2011, 07:21 AM
I shoot cowboy action. There are reasons for the light loads.
1. The steel pistol targets are 21 feet from the shooter. Less power less splatter.
2. SASS rules limit pistol loads to 1000 FPS or less.
3. Pistol caliber lever action rifle loads are limited to 1400 FPS or less and no GC's.
Local clubs don't always follow these rules, but if you shoot in a sass shoot you will be disqualified if you don't follow sass rules.
Some shooters shoot loads as slow as 400 to 500 fps with very light for caliber cast boolits ie. 180 gr. 45 colt. These loads hardly cause any recoil at all. When I shoot I like to feel the gun recoil most of my loads for my 45 are running around 700 FPS. with a 230 gr. RN bullet
I have been hit by lead splatter several times, once over the right eye about 2" above the eye. I bled quite a bit. I had my safety glasses on but had just taken my cowboy hat off to wipe the sweat off my forehead and bam!! it felt like I had been hit with a hammer not real hard but it hurt pretty bad.

Noz
January 17, 2011, 12:48 PM
"Cowboy" loads are subject to a power factor but it is a minimum number. Some of the less knowledgeable shooters were shooting loads so light to be on the edge of disaster. Since the power factor was initiated, I have never heard of any one being challenged and required to prove his ammo met the criteria.
Most of the very fast shooters have discovered that some recoil is required for mental feedback to allow them to shoot at their maximum speed. Too low and there is a "did I or didn't I" lag between shots.
Power is more frequently encountered on the upper end when shooters are asked to slow their loads down because of potential target damage and excessive spatter(spatter is usually encountered from poorly set targets or damaged targets).

B.L.E.
January 17, 2011, 11:55 PM
I have seen loads so mild that you could literally watch the bullets fly through the air towards the targets.

Mouse fart loads shot by competitors refered to as "gamers" have been a major point of controversy in SASS, there seems to be an article about it in every issue of their newsletter.

My solution, encourage clubs to use knockdown targets exclusively. If it didn't fall down, you didn't hit it or you didn't hit it hard enough.

salvadore
January 18, 2011, 12:41 AM
Just sayin...I kinda was interested in dressin up like howdy doody and firin away with case fulls of BP but the youtube stuff looked like mattel had a bunch of NOS fanner fifties they sold cheap. I wonder if they did what B.L.E. said would it generate more or less interest.

Noz
January 18, 2011, 11:20 AM
I have moved my rreply to a new thread called CAS

Jbar4Ranch
January 18, 2011, 11:36 AM
600 fps isn't out of line at all for a target handgun round, and, like Noz said, they're not difficult to see when the sun is out. There are bows today that will launch arrows pushing the 450 fps mark... of course the bows draw 75-90 pounds and the arrows are extremely light, like 225 grains, but still...

rosewood
January 18, 2011, 06:40 PM
I had assumed they were filled with bp. Wouldnt they have to be to be used in bp pistols with conversion cylinders?

Fingers McGee
January 18, 2011, 08:06 PM
Cowboy Load generally refers to ammunition loaded with pure lead bullets and either smokeless powder, black powder or black powder substitutes that falls within pressure and velocity ranges found in non-magnum or +p loads. (Sometimes called standard velocity - whatever that means) Cowboy loads are not what is euphimistically refered to as "Mouse Phart" loads or "gamer" loads. SASS ammunition must meet velocity and power factor limitations to be legal for use. Cowboy loads are not:

like mattel had a bunch of NOS fanner fifties they sold cheap.
a load that will get a bullet of a given weight out of the barrel of a handgun or rifle and have it hit the target and make it bounce.

when you compare the ballistics of cowboy ammunition, you NEED a lever gun to get the velocity and energy the normal HANDGUN load developed in 1880.
cowboy loads are loaded to a lesser pressure for one or both of two reasons:
1) less chance of damaging the targets
2) allows for better control

SASS Ammunition requirements are:

The minimum standard for center-fire smokeless ammunition used in all SASS matches
State, Regional, National, International, and World Championship Competitions is not less
than a minimum power factor of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps. The maximum
velocity standard for revolvers is 1000 fps. The maximum velocity standard for rifles is 1400
fps. Pocket pistols, derringers, and long-range rifles are exempt from the power factor and
velocity requirements.
Power factors are simply calculated by multiplying the bullet weight times the velocity
and then the resulting number is divided by 1000. Some examples are as follows:
100 gr bullet traveling at 600 fps has a power factor of 60: (100x600)/1000=60.00
77 gr bullet traveling at 800 fps has a power factor of 61.6 (77x800)/1000=61.60
200 gr bullet traveling at 400 fps has a power factor of 80 (200x400)/1000=80.00

Commercial Cowboy Loads far exceed the minimum power factor.

Please, don't assume, don't guess, don't repeat uncertain facts. If you have't tried it, I cordially invite you to attend the next match near where you live. I'm certain you'll find it quite different than what you think.

Hardcase
January 18, 2011, 09:11 PM
Cowboy loads also will not blow up my Colt Lightning Magazine Rifle and let me shoot it now and then without having to clean the black powder mess out of the complicated action.

salvadore
January 18, 2011, 09:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH96vANEjMQ&feature=related


like mattel had a bunch of NOS fanner fifties they sold cheap.

An old fat guy like myself can appreciate movin and hitting the targets, but I still think the minimum power factor might be raised a smidge, but it's not my game so what do I know?

Jbar4Ranch
January 19, 2011, 12:34 AM
One of the great things about this game is you can shoot it the way YOU want to shoot it - go for speed with low velocity, small caliber, light bullets or go for the shock & awe factor with .45 Colts/250 grainers, a 56-50 rifle with 350 grainers and a 10 gauge SxS, all brass shells & 2 oz of shot, all loaded with black powder - none of those substitutes for me.

strong45side
January 20, 2011, 10:17 AM
Question, so does a 250g cowboy action all lead load shoot any differently (different recoil?) than say an american eagle 250g semi jacketed round?

Fingers McGee
January 20, 2011, 12:28 PM
Maybe. I don't know what the American eagle clocks in at; and haven't shot a semi jacketed or jacketed HP in 45 Colt in a bunch of years; but, a Black Hills 250 grain RNFP exits a 4 3/4 inch barreled Cimarron at around 790 fps; and a Winchester "Cowboy" load 250 grain RNFP exits a 4 3/4 inch barreled GWII at around 760 fps.

Carolina Cowboy
January 20, 2011, 02:56 PM
Here is what most of the shoots I have been to look like, not mouse fart loads at all, that is me shooting my 45's and LOVING ever second of it, course I am not going to be going for a world record, but I am having a blast(pun intented)

You might have to cut and paste this link

http://johnsoncreekregulators.com/videos/9-10/cc9-10.htm

www.johnsoncreekregulators.com

Red Cent
January 21, 2011, 04:26 PM
Same old stuff. If you want a boomenlouder load, go for it. If I want to load a 38 Spec with a 105gr bullet and 3.2 grs of American Select, it would work for me. If I beat the heck out of your time on the stage, why should I be required to load them hot like you? Why don't you load down? No? Then whats the difference?

SASS is a game. SASS is a fantasy. SASS is not trying to duplicate the Wild West.

SASS wants the young folks and the ladies to enjoy the game. We want them to shoot and not be intimidated by the blast and recoil.

Browse and enjoy.
http://www.jspublications.net/records/records.html

Bowdog
January 21, 2011, 05:00 PM
:)I shoot CAS using a 200gr. RNLFP .45 Colt with 5.5 gr. Trailboss powder. Not a real heavy load But by CAS standards it is. Knocks the hell out of most targets. The knock down ones go down and back up so fast you think you missed.:)

Red Cent
January 22, 2011, 02:23 PM
When I shot 45s, I used 165gr bullet with 4.2 Americaan Select. Same in rifle.

Hawg Haggen
January 22, 2011, 02:32 PM
44-40, 7 grs. Win 231, 200 gr. RNFP

Fingers McGee
January 22, 2011, 07:35 PM
44-40, 200 grain big lube bullet and a case full of BP. Don't get any beter'n that

FM

Hawg Haggen
January 22, 2011, 10:17 PM
44-40, 200 grain big lube bullet and a case full of BP. Don't get any beter'n that

That's true:cool: