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Death from Afar
January 13, 2011, 07:56 PM
I had a discussion with an operator whom i greatly respect a few days ago about the right time to do a magazine change. I'll run a scenario past you (which may or may not have occurred- names have been changed to protect the guilty etc)

You are in a three vehicle convoy doing a routine run. The front vehicle is disabled by a mechanical failure and you go to all round defence. You are assisting in repairs however. At some time during the repairs bad dudes turn up for a hit and run raid and a brisk little fire fight starts at close-ish range. You engage a target ineffectivly with your Glock 17, because like an idiot, your M4 was inacessable as you were assisting in the repairs. You think that you fired 6-8 rounds, and you think that the bad guys have bugged out after your poor return fire. To get to your M4 would certainly expose you to fire, so your stuck with your Glock. After pausing for a silent thank you to the good people at Glock, do you put in another magazine? You have three, including the one in the pistol.

Thoughts?

oldkim
January 13, 2011, 08:26 PM
What is happening. Typically in a military scenario you want to reload when you go dry. You shoot until you have to change magazines in an active shooting scenario. On the flip side if there is a pause (situation where you are not actively shooting) and you have cover and in this situation you are with a team (you coordinate your reloading) to "top off" a fresh magazine.

In civilian situation: you'll have to make the judgement when it's safe enough for you to change magazines. Typically you are alone and a shooting is not often an active continuing situation but there's always one or two that can happen.

Sure you should worry about reloading but it's way on the bottom of the list of things to do for a civilian. Things happen fast and it's not like a game where you can time your reloads to maximize your score. First thing is first - be safe!

kaylorinhi
January 13, 2011, 08:46 PM
In that scenario, me personally, I would reload with both mags in my hand at one time as soon I percieve no more threats and you should never "HAVE" to reload, on his time, as it is not a good situation to be in being that your secondary just became your primary!! my2cents

MisterPX
January 13, 2011, 08:49 PM
IN your described situation, I will change mags.

boomboomthump
January 13, 2011, 08:52 PM
Yep, change mags and secure the one with 3 in case you need those later on.

landcruzr
January 13, 2011, 09:15 PM
No question about it in that scenario- Change the mags and save the original...
Using either a Tactical Reload or a Retention reload (depending on your training)

gruntrus
January 13, 2011, 09:37 PM
Yup, combat reload, assess surroundings, and onward.

Death from Afar
January 13, 2011, 09:48 PM
Yup, combat reload, assess surroundings, and onward.

You forgot to add after "onward"- Get cussed out by team leader for being an idiot....:o

jhenry
January 13, 2011, 10:11 PM
Depends. I would likely top off if there was a significant enough of a lull. Otherwise I would swap mags at slide lock.

Crazy88Fingers
January 13, 2011, 10:28 PM
As the saying goes "Eat when you can, and sleep when you can. Because you never know when you'll get another chance to do it."

I'd apply the same principle to reloading. Swap in a fresh magazine, put the used one at the end of the line.

Dwight55
January 13, 2011, 11:14 PM
As an example of how critical timing is for reloading, . . . the doofus who shot the congresswoman in Tucson, . . . picked the wrong time to reload.

The report we heard was he was doing a frantic fumble shuffle during his reload and some woman came up and grabbed the magazine out of his hand. Then two guys who were just lookin' for an opening put the grab on him.

In this case, . . . bad reloading technique was good for the good guys, . . . most of the time it isn't.

And yes, . . . I would have reloaded just as soon as I saw the lull. You may have too much coffee, . . . too many cigarettes, . . . too many Hershey bars, . . . and too much booze, . . . but you never have too many bullets available in a firefight.

May God bless
Dwight

BfloBill
January 13, 2011, 11:24 PM
Definitely put in a full magazine at that point.

One thing no one has mentioned though, if you don't have time to top off the partial magazine I was taught to put it in a pocket NOT back in your magazine pouch. That way you don't confuse it with your full magazines, when you run out of those you go back to your partial mag.

armoredman
January 14, 2011, 12:23 AM
Tactical reload, as taught in the Academy, just did my annual qualification. Amazing how many people can bobble a reload. Practice it, get the full one secure between two fingers while pulling the partial, then replace with the full from where it is in your hand. Slam it home, and dump that partial to the back of the mag pouch, or pocket if you prefer. Always do a tac behind cover, not just concealment, if possible.
You left a vehicle in Iraq without your rifle? You hope to survive long enough to survive the rear end chewing you're gonna get!

raimius
January 14, 2011, 02:29 PM
I dislike the "tactical reload." The opportunity to fumble is too great, IMO. I think the "retention reload" or "speed reload (then grab the partial)" methods are better.
http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/2010/03/myth-of-tactical-reload.html

Would I change mags? Yes, if I felt I had the time/cover.

fastbolt
January 14, 2011, 04:01 PM
Are you asking if a weapon should have its magazine replaced in order to bring the weapon back up to full capacity at an appropriate and prudent time after the primary magazine has been partially emptied?

How is this any different from maintaining a fully loaded magazine in a rifle/carbine, as appropriate for the situation and circumstances?

There are various schools of thought regarding tactical/combat replacement of magazines, including what to do with the replaced magazine (retention of remaining rounds in the partially depleted magazine). The ultimate goal, however, is arguably to keep a weapon fully loaded and ready for use, but not allow the "timing" and manipulation/chosen technique to compromise the continued safety and effectiveness of the user.

Just my thoughts.

Not having the primary weapon accessible while performing a secondary function is another subject that might deserve some attention ... :eek:

markj
January 14, 2011, 04:10 PM
You are in a three vehicle convoy doing a routine run. The front vehicle is disabled by a mechanical failure and you go to all round defence. You are assisting in repairs however. At some time during the repairs bad dudes turn up for a hit and run raid and a brisk little fire fight starts at close-ish range. You engage a target ineffectivly with your Glock 17, because like an idiot, your M4 was inacessable as you were assisting in the repairs. You think that you fired 6-8 rounds, and you think that the bad guys have bugged out after your poor return fire. To get to your M4 would certainly expose you to fire, so your stuck with your Glock. After pausing for a silent thank you to the good people at Glock, do you put in another magazine? You have three, including the one in the pistol.


I had thought New Zealanders were nice people :) this sure makes me want to not go there :)

kozak6
January 14, 2011, 04:29 PM
I'd reload. Rounds go back into the pool, so I can afford the couple seconds it would take. Then, I'd pop smoke for concealment so I could retrieve the M4, and it might also allow my teammates to find better cover. It might also be possible to call in an air strike or artillery.

It might also be a strategic advantage to suicide. This could allow me to fight back to the battle from the spawn point, which could allow attack from another side or angle. It only takes a few seconds to respawn anyways and my score is usually high enough that I can afford it.

steve54
January 15, 2011, 02:21 PM
I, personally, would want a full magazine in my gun whenever possible but I would keep the partial magazine as a back up

Death from Afar
January 15, 2011, 03:28 PM
It might also be a strategic advantage to suicide. This could allow me to fight back to the battle from the spawn point, which could allow attack from another side or angle. It only takes a few seconds to respawn anyways and my score is usually high enough that I can afford it.
Yesterday 10:10 AM


Poorest...attempt...at...a...troll...ever!

triumph666
January 17, 2011, 03:06 AM
finish firing mag at last known position of attackers and reload next mag while moving to another position of cover(prob other end of vehicle you were hiding behind in first place)....unless of course you saw the downed bodies of your attackers with no return fire, in which case reload at your leisure.

but i'd rather have half mag laying around on ground with full one in gun than worrying bout ammo in gun

jeepman4804
January 17, 2011, 04:15 AM
Always top it off during a lull in the action. Retain the partial mag in your pocket. Waiting to run dry could get you killed so do what you can to keep it fed. Remember topping it off takes far less time then running it totally dry.

Taking a long gun out of the fight because you forgot it earns you an ass chewing! Take it with you and lean it on the fender or where ever you can easily access it.