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davis21b
January 7, 2011, 04:25 PM
I have been thinking about building me an ar15. Does anyone know of any good cheap places to get parts. I have been debating on what caliber i would like to use too I would like to set it up like the one I carried while deployed but I'm not sure I want to use the5.56(223) I have been thinking about stepping up maybe 6.5 grendel. Which do yall think would be better. Just curious. Thanks.

Technosavant
January 7, 2011, 04:44 PM
5.56 is the most prolific. It's everywhere. 6.5 is going to run into issues with ammo availability and ready parts availability.

If you don't want to spend a lot, go 5.56 for now.

The places I might recommend for reasonably priced parts would be Spike's Tactical, Del-Ton, Bravo Company, and PK Firearms. You should be able to get whatever you need from any one of those three, but don't fall into the trap of assuming the cheap stuff is every bit as good as the more mainstream or the top notch stuff. It may be just fine for your purposes though.

Just do yourself a favor and stay away from Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne; their rep is horrendous and the one Vulcan rifle I've seen was complete and utter garbage.

jman841
January 7, 2011, 04:51 PM
I built a rifle for under 700, Delton kit cost 600 cause i had some extra's added on it and a spikes tactical lower for 79 bucks at a local shop. It has been excellent, very accurate and no malfunctions with any sort of ammo. While it is a PITA to clean and i clean it after every range visit, that is typical of any DI AR-15.

I went with the 16" Mid Length, iron sights (removable carrying handle) and retractable stock, chrome lined barrel.

My only regret was getting a 1/9 twist which is all they offered at the time of my purchase, now i believe they offer a 1/7 twist on the mid length weapon.

As for the round choice, what is your intended purpose? If it is simply for target, varmint, and possible self defense i would say def stick with 5.56. Hornady has come out with some excellent self defense ammunition (TAP) and their is plenty of choices for hunting applications in 5.56.

The 6.5 would be better suited if you are planning for target shooting out past 600 yards, or hunting larger game. If that is not your main purpose i would say def stay with the 5.56. Despite a lot of criticism it is a very capable round, especially with modern bullet technology.

thesheepdog
January 7, 2011, 05:15 PM
Don't get a 6.5 first. I can speak first hand about the Grendel. I bought a
Daniel Defense M4, got good with it, and then built a Grendel upper.
Nowadays, Grendel ammo is much more available since Hornady started making it (Cabelas had 10 boxes last time i went; Midway and Natchez both have Hornady/AA ammo in stock).
Anyway, unless you have a good income to spend $1+ a round, then don't get a Grendel first. If you reload, then a Grendel may not be a bad choice for you. It's a cool round, and I will finally be able to test it past 400 yards next weekend.

As far as building an AR, I would suggest you buy one first; a good knowledge of the AR is required in order to make a good build.

davis21b
January 7, 2011, 05:17 PM
thanks Ill check them out. I'm thinking i am going to stick with the 5.56 it would be cheaper on ammo and such. I can always build another one later in a bigger caliber lol. For the record I think the 5.56 is a good round also. I would like for us to start using a bigger caliber in the military the 6.5 grendel seems to be a good round. It has the capibility to reach out to 1000 meters and be fairly close with the 7.62 at that range. thats just my opinion though.

thesheepdog
January 7, 2011, 05:20 PM
It has the capibility to reach out to 1000 meters and be fairly close with the 7.62 at that range. thats just my opinion though.

A better round isn't going to make up for poor Marksmanship.
A very, very small percentage of soldiers can even hit that range accurately. It's a good round for GOOD SHOOTERS.

davis21b
January 7, 2011, 05:25 PM
True it will not make up for soldiers who can't shoot. Its sad to say but theres alot of soldiers that cant shoot also.

jman841
January 7, 2011, 06:23 PM
Davis, there is not a need for the average soldier to be an expert marksman. We have snipers who are excellent shooters where their skill is applied, but the way our tactics are set up do not call for it. If the military uses a better bullet, maybe a longer/heavier bullet with a better BC or one that does not rely on velocity to work effectively (which they are working on right now with the M855A1 and the new SOST round) the military may not need to go to a larger caliber. While it would be nice to have every soldier able to hit targets out to 1000 yards, it is simply not worth the cost of training and time with our current tactic's. At 1000 yards the enemy can not hit us with small arms fire in most situations and Air support and other means can be utilized at that distance.

globalsmack
January 8, 2011, 12:16 AM
Go 6.8 if you want more bang. It's readily available at most tactical type stores and costs are dropping. If you want to build cheap check out DSA and thier line of complete uppers and lower. $500 to $600 for a complete build when you are done is cheap.

4V50 Gary
January 8, 2011, 12:36 AM
Concur with the comment on Hesse. I've seen where they've drilled the holes in their receiver a bit off.

tirod
January 8, 2011, 10:10 AM
While it is a PITA to clean and i clean it after every range visit, that is typical of any DI AR-15.

The bolt carrier assembly is the gas piston assembly. Very few people tear down their gas piston after every range visit. What is typical of any DI AR-15 is that you can very easily.

If there is a problem, it's the multi locking lugs, that's the tradeoff with using a lighter barrel extension rather than a heavy two lug receiver. If the Browning BLR owners could tell us, I doubt very seriously they clean the star lugs on their guns after every single range trip. Exact same kind of setup.

The AR cleaning routine is way overrated when you compare doing the same thing to other guns.

Look at the CMMG Bargain Bin guns for $599. Good parts mostly, because they buy the makers blems and assemble. Because so many consumers are educated and trained to only accept perfect condition goods, high prices are supported. Buy blem parts, you get the brand name, the quality, pay 1/2 price, and save. First round out the barrel makes it a used gun anyway, just like driving a car off the lot.

How much ego premium some willingly pay isn't a good guideline for you.

jman841
January 8, 2011, 10:59 AM
Tirod, the major difference between the AR-15 "pistol assembly" as you call the bolt carrier is that it contains the bolt, In most semi auto weapons that use a short or long stroke piston, the heat and carbon does not make any contact with the bolt except leakage from the chamber and during extraction. Next time you fire an AR-15 with atleast 200 rounds through it, take the bolt out of the bolt carrier and inspect the side where the gas seal is. You will notice the carbon is caked on to the point the only way to get it off is to use the firing pin or piece of metal to scrape it off. this is not scene in non DI weapons, also the amount of carbon build up that accumulates in the upper reciever where the bolt carrier is riding accumulates much faster than a non DI system.

I am not saying one is better than the other, but to say that the bolt carrier is similar to the "pistol assembly" of a non DI weapon is very misleading. In a traditional piston assembly, the gas only makes contact with the pistol that pushes it back then the spring brings it forward. Never makes contact with the bolt or critical pieces of the weapon.

Quentin2
January 9, 2011, 01:35 AM
You keep saying "pistol assembly", do you mean piston?

Tirod is right that the BCG in the AR acts as a piston... The expansion gases really aren't harmful to the bolt, it's strong and can handle the gas and deposits as long as you keep it lubricated.


Tirod, the major difference between the AR-15 "pistol assembly" as you call the bolt carrier is that it contains the bolt, In most semi auto weapons that use a short or long stroke piston, the heat and carbon does not make any contact with the bolt except leakage from the chamber and during extraction. Next time you fire an AR-15 with atleast 200 rounds through it, take the bolt out of the bolt carrier and inspect the side where the gas seal is. You will notice the carbon is caked on to the point the only way to get it off is to use the firing pin or piece of metal to scrape it off. this is not scene in non DI weapons, also the amount of carbon build up that accumulates in the upper reciever where the bolt carrier is riding accumulates much faster than a non DI system.

I am not saying one is better than the other, but to say that the bolt carrier is similar to the "pistol assembly" of a non DI weapon is very misleading. In a traditional piston assembly, the gas only makes contact with the pistol that pushes it back then the spring brings it forward. Never makes contact with the bolt or critical pieces of the weapon.

PIGMAN
January 9, 2011, 02:16 AM
Jeff at Arizona Armory will custom build an AR-15 for you starting at $775.
These are not preassemballed kit guns,these are really nice rifles.Contact Jeff regarding anything about AR's at his website:

http://azarmory.net/Home_Page.php

jman841
January 9, 2011, 03:08 PM
yea piston not pistol, whoops

tommyboy
January 9, 2011, 06:00 PM
delton has some pretty good quality and is reasonably priced.

tirod
January 9, 2011, 10:22 PM
Garand owners are well aware that not cleaning their piston will eventually cause it to cake up so badly it will not come out of the gas chamber. It takes a gunsmith to clean it out, and they charge good money for the lack of care.

The bolt face on the AR15 does get warmer than a piston gun.

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/05/06/heat-dissipation-insulate-or-circulate-tube-or-rod/

But not much. The gas piston on the barrel does. There are quite a few others who have taken temps with a infra red gun and found that a lot of the hot-gas-in-the-AR-bolt-carrier is just that, a lot of hot air. At the operating temps of the materials used, it's not significant.

Build up of residue on the tail of the bolt, which is the piston face in the AR, touches no moving parts, and won't jam anything. The saga of Filthy 14, the class carbine that has now shot over 30,000 round with nothing but lube and wipedown, seems to be ignored as a case of one anecdote. Others doing the same get a similar brushoff. The simple truth is that the AR15 DI system does its job, and doesn't live up to the rumor, conjecture, and ignorant superstition that spreads among those who've never used one.

You don't hear it much from the 20 million soldiers that have used on, and don't forget, the Air Force is still using parts made before 1970 in many of theirs. Because it works.

riverwalker76
January 10, 2011, 12:18 AM
I've built numerous AR-15s in several different configurations. First off .... cheap parts do not equal good parts.

I have built one ... barebone for around $650, and I have one that I sunk nearly $1800 into. It all depends on what you are looking for.

After building my own ... I don't know why ANYONE would buy a pre-assembled / Factory AR-15! They are the easiest rifles in the world to build. It's almost laughable on the simplicity of them. Even assembling an upper barrel assembly is 'connect the dots' with the right tools. ;)

davis21b
January 10, 2011, 12:25 AM
Im really wanting to build it just like i carried while deployed in Iraq. I am realising that im probably going to take my time and build it like i want it know point in rushing i guess.

RockyMtnTactical
January 10, 2011, 12:59 PM
If you are going to take your time to build a rifle and do it slowly, why not use higher quality parts? It won't cost that much more and the gun will be much better.