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40s-and-wfan
January 3, 2011, 10:34 AM
I'm looking to put an inexpensive reflex sight on my shotgun for home defense purposes but am rethinking the necessity of one. A light might be a better idea. In my reading, most confrontations with a burglar happen at distances close enough that a sight isn't even needed. The light might be good so I can make sure what I hear is actually what I think it is, rather than one of our three dogs or our cat!
Anyways, what are your feelings on accessories for a shotgun? Do you 'accessorize' or do you leave things stock so to speak? As it stands right now, my shotgun has a 26-inch barrel on it. I'm in the process of buying a shorter barrel more suited for HD. This gun is my pet project for the winter. Need all the ideas I can get.

hogdogs
January 3, 2011, 10:56 AM
Hands... That is all I put on my life support weapon...

single bead on the barrel is my most instinctive point shooting method.

I don't multi task worth a snot so no lights, side saddles, lasers, commands to the BG or nothin'.

Brent

zippy13
January 3, 2011, 11:15 AM
+ 1 on Brent's comment.

Have you considered a bedside remote controller for your home's lighting? You'll get a lot more use from it than a light on your gun.

egor20
January 3, 2011, 11:25 AM
Benelli M3
No lasers, LED's or any of the tacticool stuff, just 5 extra rounds on the buttstock. If I need more than 12 rounds of #4, and my wife's and my pistols, then I better buy a tactical radio to call in an airstrike

NickySantoro
January 3, 2011, 12:35 PM
OP,
Lights work both ways. I'd prefer not to give up the tactical advantage of knowing my home's layout in the dark.
FWIW
YMMV

bcarver
January 3, 2011, 01:10 PM
standard stock
18" barrel
bead sight.
extended tube.

natman
January 3, 2011, 01:25 PM
OP,
Lights work both ways. I'd prefer not to give up the tactical advantage of knowing my home's layout in the dark.
FWIW
YMMV

How do you plan to identify your target?

oneounceload
January 3, 2011, 01:37 PM
How do you plan to identify your target?

With only the spouse in my house, ANYONE else becomes a target at 2AM. Seriously, I have enough ambient light from street lights, LED clocks and other glowing devices to see clearly without additional lighting

natman
January 3, 2011, 01:45 PM
With only the spouse in my house, ANYONE else becomes a target at 2AM. Seriously, I have enough ambient light from street lights, LED clocks and other glowing devices to see clearly without additional lighting

That may be fine for you. Some of us have teenage kids and I wouldn't want to shoot one just because he was sneaking into the house after curfew. (like none of us ever did it). Or what if it's your neighbor coming back from closing the bar who walked in the door you forgot to lock.

The nice thing about lights is that they have switches. You only have to turn them on when needed.

oneounceload
January 3, 2011, 01:51 PM
Absolutely agree, ESPECIALLY with those pesky teenagers sneaking in past curfew.....(not that I would ever have done something similar)...:D

Actually, my dad, a LEO at the time almost DID shoot me while I was trying to sneak up the stairs one night.

A good dog works wonders as well.............;)

40s-and-wfan
January 3, 2011, 01:59 PM
I do have kids and I want to make sure that whatever is wandering around in my house isn't one of them. They're too young to be sneaking in and out of the house right yet though. I have 5, 7 and 9 year old boys and a baby girl that's barely a month old yet.
I want something that will not only help me keep my home safe, but I don't want to have some rabid county attorney asking me why I didn't feel it necessary to identify my target in some way or another before discharging a round or two of '00' buck into him/her. "How do you know he was here to harm you, just because he was stumbling through your home at oh-dark-thirty doesn't mean he was going to rape and murder you and your family! He could have been lost." There are many an enterprising attorney that would argue something like that!

hogdogs
January 3, 2011, 02:04 PM
I forgot to mention... Yes I have 2 adult kids at home but I also have 4 full time indoor dogs and if they are barkin' at a human... he don't belong here...

Brent

zippy13
January 3, 2011, 02:52 PM
IMHO, the varied opinions expressed, thus far, serve to demonstrate that there are no hard and fast answers about HD. How you prepare depends on your environment and your defense plan. Far too many folks concern themselves with outfitting a tacti=cool shotgun before they've developed a comprehensive HD plan. Let someone mention HD, and there always seems to be a quick reply suggesting a M-500/R-870 and 00-Buck without having a clue about the OP's circumstances.

RoscoeC
January 3, 2011, 03:50 PM
What Goes On An HD Shotgun?

Wear marks. Lots of 'em.

Shawn Thompson
January 3, 2011, 04:11 PM
How do you plan to identify your target?

In the context of "Home Defense", here is something else to consider: Leave a light on.

The newer flourecent lamps have a longer service life and consume very little power. Find a location in your home that will work to your advantage (when required) then turn it on and leave it.

just a thought

Stevie-Ray
January 3, 2011, 04:25 PM
Or what if it's your neighbor coming back from closing the bar who walked in the door you forgot to lock. I would say that a person that takes their security seriously enough to use a gun for HD, does not forget to lock the doors. I have never in my life forgot to lock my doors and shame on you if you have. Anybody that's in my house that is not the wife or me has gone through at least 2 locks to do so, and therefore a target.

R1145
January 3, 2011, 04:29 PM
If the only weapon I could own was a shotgun, I might have some accessories on it to enhance its versatility, but for a dedicated home-defense weapon a 12 gauge pump loaded with 4 or 5 rounds of 00 buck, stripped except for a tac light, is second to none, IMHO.

The main benefit of a shotgun is quick shooting, facilitated by the bead sight: Basically, gun up, find the bead, BOOM, target down. Taking the time to acquire a sight picture makes you slower, or, at best, no faster.

Many accessories may have some use in specialized applications, but get in the way of home defense use. I think extended magazines are bulky and impede quick deployment. Reloading is not likely in a home defense scenario. Likewise, slings just get in the way.

Sights and slugs basically make a shotgun (well, an 870, anyway) into a manually-operated 4-shot rifle...OK, but why not have a rifle instead?

A weapon light is the only accessory I would mount.

Vermonter
January 3, 2011, 04:30 PM
GF and I live alone except for our dog (a year old golden). We all sleep in the same room and are usually the only people in the home. We live in a rural ski town with more tourists than predators though it is hard to tell the difference many times.

The home is a wood framed wood flored ski house that creeks like no other. Anyone even stepping in the front door would be easily heard from the bedroom below.

Whatever pistol I have been carrying for the day goes to the nightstand and the Charles Daly HD shotgun is in the corner by the bed. The dog will wake up to the noise first and alert us. I will pick up the 12 gauge and lock the bedroom door. She will cover the window with my pistol. (it is at ground level)

I will announce my displeasure with the situation and wait for response. In the event of no response we will alert the athorities.

They can steal what they like but they will not touch her or the dog.

Comments?

Vermonter

hogdogs
January 3, 2011, 04:37 PM
My issue with a light on the gun is that it impedes my ability to sight down my barrel reliably. When the target is lit, my barrel is darkened...

But if I use my ambient lighting (minimal amount needed), I can fairly reliably sight down the barrel to COM on a human size torso target.

Brent

pax
January 3, 2011, 04:44 PM
Training.

That's the first, best accessory you need.

pax

BODAME
January 3, 2011, 05:16 PM
First Rule:TRAINING 100 % Agreement with Previous Post
2-12 GA 1-20 Ga 1100 Remington Pistol Grip Guns with Tactical Sling, 21 Inch Smooth Bore Barrels with Tridium Front Sight.(Wife's is the 20 GA version)
1)Strobe Option Light with Laser Combo
2)5 Round Extended Tube with Barrel Brace
3)6 Round Saddle(Mounted to Gun Not Stk)
I decided on this Set-Up after a "Hands On" Home Defense Course
and several years of 3 Gun Matches, trying several Combinations, Guns and Gadgets .

hardworker
January 3, 2011, 05:31 PM
whatever shotgun I'm using to pull HD duty with doesn't have any special requirements. As long as it works, 4 or 5 shells is plenty for any scenario I foresee.

Shawn Thompson
January 3, 2011, 05:34 PM
I find a sling on a shotgun that is dedicated for home defense to be more of a hidrance than a help. While not serving much of a purpose within the home, a sling does provide for increased opportunity to "snag" itself without warning. Door knobs, furniture or whatever...

markj
January 3, 2011, 05:36 PM
What Goes On An HD Shotgun?

12000 candle power strobe lite

10000 decibel siren screecher to disrupt the auditory canals.

a folding stock and stuff that makes it look real kewl and scary..


I did put a sling on mine, well cause I use it to hunt with....

Onward Allusion
January 3, 2011, 05:48 PM
I would have a loaded side saddle and a light as a shotgun requires two hands. The sling will only get in the way. With that said, I would not be clearing the house with a shotgun, especially one with hallways and corners. A shotgun when used as a indoor home defense weapon is best utilized in a safe room.

Onward Allusion
January 3, 2011, 05:50 PM
12000 candle power strobe lite

Do you mean 12 million candle power?

blackspyder
January 3, 2011, 08:41 PM
Fiber optic sights, mid length barrel, wide replaceable choke, and a buttstock shell holder. It doubles as a hunting shotgun and all i do is change the choke when I want to use it to hunt.

40s-and-wfan
January 3, 2011, 10:42 PM
The main thing I'm thinking of putting on my shotgun is a sidesaddle for about 5 extra rounds and something along the lines of a Surefire dedicated weapon fore-end!! Other than that, there's not much else that is needed on a shotgun for personal defense!!

LinuxHack3r
January 3, 2011, 10:45 PM
http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachments/fishing-miscellaneous-items/140174d1289500886-price-reduced-buy-christmas-38-caliber-navy-arms-harpoon-gun-rtclose2.jpg

I like to have a harpoon gun mounted under the barrel, just in case I have to go diving during a home invasion.

I like to keep it simple...a light....with a pressure sensitive switch.
And of course a side saddle....for extra harpo-er......shells;)

natman
January 4, 2011, 03:55 AM
Or what if it's your neighbor coming back from closing the bar who walked in the door you forgot to lock.

I would say that a person that takes their security seriously enough to use a gun for HD, does not forget to lock the doors. I have never in my life forgot to lock my doors and shame on you if you have. Anybody that's in my house that is not the wife or me has gone through at least 2 locks to do so, and therefore a target.

Yeah, I figured that when I wrote that somebody would get "holier than thou" about it. Accidents are things that aren't supposed to happen. Shooting at someone in the dark is how they become tragedies.

I'm sorry, but I don't consider "Shoot first and ask questions later" to be a viable philosophy regarding self defense. YMMV.

Regardless of your philosophy regarding identifying your target before you shoot, a light is a handy thing to have while resolving situations at night. A shotgun will require using both hands, so the light has to be on the gun.

TacticalDefense1911
January 4, 2011, 06:58 AM
Here is a good place to start. Watch these videos from Magpul Dynamics. They will get you on the right path.

Enhancements
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJcuq0KbRAc

Sights and Optics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFPBit0u4yI

Weapon mounted lights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ildCdpsouk

markj
January 4, 2011, 04:16 PM
Do you mean 12 million candle power?

Heck no that would blind me behind the gun, not a good thing.

A sling wrapped around the forearm gives it a little more stability and it makes it easy to carry around. I use mine to kill large animals for food. Never had to even think about using it against another human, they just dont come around my place so I dont really worry much about that.

Stevie-Ray
January 4, 2011, 06:56 PM
Yeah, I figured that when I wrote that somebody would get "holier than thou" about it. Accidents are things that aren't supposed to happen. Shooting at someone in the dark is how they become tragedies.

I'm sorry, but I don't consider "Shoot first and ask questions later" to be a viable philosophy regarding self defense. YMMV.Holier than thou much? Holier than thou has nothing to do with it. You want to defend your home with a gun? Start by securing the doors and windows so you have a bit less to worry about. I said nothing about "shooting first" or against using lights, but using a gun for HD and then forgetting to do the very basics of home security would be ultra-stupid.

Nnobby45
January 4, 2011, 07:21 PM
The light enables you to positively ID the target, or Uncle Fred sleepwalking towards the refridgerator. The light can illuminate the room enough for identification when pointed at the floor or ceiling.

If you point the light at the target, the front sight stands out REAL WELL. Especially a post type rifle sight like the one on my Scattergun Tech with SureFire fore end..

The contention that you don't need to aim at close range is problematic. At the range you're talking about, you're shooting the equivilent of a rifle with a single projectile. There is no pattern.

Once you get the light, you can practice with it at night and replace the thoughts in your head with those derived from real experience. Learn everything about the light. Indoors, out doors. Bounce light off the ceiling. Bounce it off the floor from a ready position so you can instantly bring the gun up if the target is hostile. If there aren't other family members to worry about, you can illuminate the target and instantly make your decision.

Oh, and learn to completely control the switch so you don't inadvertantly operate it under stress and give away your position.

Just my thoughts on the matter.:cool:

Shawn Thompson
January 4, 2011, 11:46 PM
Watch these videos from Magpul Dynamics

And if you squint really hard... you can just about make out the shotgun in the middle of all that gear! :D

egor20
January 4, 2011, 11:53 PM
"The contention that you don't need to aim at close range is problematic"

Had a guy at a gun store (not an employee) tell my wife she just had to point the shotgun in the "right time zone" to hit the BG, :D her words to him were... unkind :cool:

bigghoss
January 5, 2011, 01:18 AM
if you're worried about a weapon-mounted light giving away your position, well that's why many have momentary switches. you don't leave the thing on all the time.

it shouldn't matter unless you need to get to other family members as you should be barricaded and calling the police rather than trying to confront the invader yourself

natman
January 5, 2011, 04:33 AM
I would say that a person that takes their security seriously enough to use a gun for HD, does not forget to lock the doors. I have never in my life forgot to lock my doors and shame on you if you have. Anybody that's in my house that is not the wife or me has gone through at least 2 locks to do so, and therefore a target.


Holier than thou much? Holier than thou has nothing to do with it. You want to defend your home with a gun? Start by securing the doors and windows so you have a bit less to worry about. I said nothing about "shooting first" or against using lights, but using a gun for HD and then forgetting to do the very basics of home security would be ultra-stupid.

"I have never in my life forgot to lock my doors and shame on you if you have. " is holier-than-thou in my book.

And "Anybody that's in my house that is not the wife or me has gone through at least 2 locks to do so, and therefore a target" sounds like "shoot first and ask questions later" to me.

Forgive me if I misinterpreted those comments, but that's how they sounded to me.

Look, I'm not advocating leaving the door unlocked. I just think that it's important not make a life-or-death decision based on the premise that you could never make a mistake. I hope we can agree that it's important to identify your target before you shoot and that a light can be a useful tool to do so.

10mmAuto
January 5, 2011, 06:01 AM
A light

Gehrhard
January 5, 2011, 07:40 AM
A light maybe. By the way, they have switches so you can turn them on and off with a little pressure somewhere.
Gehr

BryanP
January 5, 2011, 09:15 AM
What Goes On An HD Shotgun?

If you're lucky? Dust.

You've had some good advice posted in here. Specifically about training, keeping it simple, lights and locks on your home.

That said, get some training and try things out for yourself. Hey, if a tacticool railed out folding stock/pistol grip works for you then that's what you should use.

NightSleeper
January 5, 2011, 09:43 AM
If you're lucky? Dust.


Agreed. Keep it simple.

Achilles11B
January 5, 2011, 12:31 PM
I'm a believer in lights on any HD firearm. Positive identification is a must.

A reflex sight if you really want it. I have a simple bead sight from the factory on my Mossberg. It's not my favorite thing in the world, but good training brings effective results.

A shell saddle, either on the stock or the receiver. You're dealing with an intruder only with what is in and on the gun. Hopefully you won't need the extra 5 or 6 rounds, but they're available if necessary.

This isn't relevant but needs to be stated nonetheless: that harpoon gun is nothing short of awesome.

markj
January 5, 2011, 04:42 PM
I would say that a person that takes their security seriously enough to use a gun for HD, does not forget to lock the doors. I have never in my life forgot to lock my doors and shame on you if you have.

In a perfect world.......

Sometimes my son comes in and forgets to lock the door, he is 8. My wife forgets too. It happens so I dont shoot at anyone in my home unless I have made durn sure it is a threat and not a neighbor, or my kids, or a friend pranking on me........ dead is dead and they aint no coming back.

redrick
January 5, 2011, 05:30 PM
Just a light, it does 2 things for me, helps ID and lets me see the bead sight.

ripnbst
January 5, 2011, 07:04 PM
Have any of you guys ever shot a 12 ga shotgun indoors without hearing protection?

All this talk of you've got to point and identify is good because most of the time you ask people about shotguns for HD they're all "Meh, as long as I am pointing it in their direction they're dead."

My .45 ACP will serve me fine should I ever need it and not deafen myself and my family in the process.

To be more constructive and answer your question I would add a light, nothing more.

People recommending slings how big are your homes? How far do you think you will have to carry your HD dedicated Shotgun before your adrenaline from someone being in your home dies off and you think "Damn this thing is heavy, let me throw it over my shoulder until I get closer to where I think they are." You don't work at a border checkpoint and need to lug it around for 10 hours. That gun is going to be in your hands, hot, safety off in a ready position the entire time you are sweeping the home, be realistic. Sling is useless and likely to get snagged on something, lose it.

People recommending saddles for more shells, again, how big are your homes? How many different neighbor hood gangs do you expect to be attacking you at once? Even if there were a half dozen intruders in your home after you've shot one or two of them you really think the other 4 will not be running the hell out of there? Try defending shooting people in the back in court and let me know how that goes for you.

An overwhelming majority of home invasions are one or two people, no more. The criminals that need to be shot multiple times due to being hopped up on drugs are almost always alone. 5 guys don't get high together and break into homes. Its one junkie looking for money for more drugs. What I am getting at is the need for more shells than a standard tube mag is almost non-existent. If you really want piece of mind get the extended tube but the shell carrier is just adding weight to what you are holding.

This is what I would have+light.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/prod_images/cdgf2971.jpg

Willie Lowman
January 5, 2011, 07:10 PM
I love these "home defense" threads. They really bring out the computer commandos.



+1 for having a light.

markj
January 6, 2011, 04:11 PM
Have any of you guys ever shot a 12 ga shotgun indoors without hearing protection?

What?? I cant hear you :)

We have the clapper for HD on one light in teh house. Clap on, clap off :) light turns on bad guy turns to look I got the drop on him he wets his pants and crys for mommy. It is a plan, I hope to never have to test it in real life.

Works with the motion sensor lites outside, no body can get close to my house at night with out a lite going on that I can see from inside the house. Deer can be a pest tho....

egor20
January 6, 2011, 04:24 PM
Deer can be a pest tho....

When I first set up all the outside lights and security systems around the house and barns, the barn cats and raccoons were driving me nuts until I tweaked the system. :D:D:D

One of the cats from a night vision camera :cool:

TheKlawMan
January 6, 2011, 05:50 PM
egor's cat is clearly a succubus.

MagSxS
January 6, 2011, 08:00 PM
ripnbst:
"An overwhelming majority of home invasions are one or two people, no more. The criminals that need to be shot multiple times due to being hopped up on drugs are almost always alone. 5 guys don't get high together and break into homes. Its one junkie looking for money for more drugs. What I am getting at is the need for more shells than a standard tube mag is almost non-existent. If you really want piece of mind get the extended tube but the shell carrier is just adding weight to what you are holding."


Agreed. However, I have heard of home invasions where there are more than 2 people. On another forum I'm on some people were talking about one which included 3 people,
and here's an article in which there are 4 suspects!!
This is from today!
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2011/01/06/16790196.html

However, like you said, even with that many, what's the likelihood that they would stay and fight even 1 or 2 of them have been shot?

edit: here's another news story from today. 2 home invaders, 1 shot, 1 fled.
http://www.ksat.com/news/26392148/detail.html

Mike Irwin
January 6, 2011, 09:38 PM
Well, on my HD gun I have:

Doppler Radar.

Side scanning sonar

Kliege and Flood lights in white, red, and infra red.

Two solar panels.

Four lunar panels (Moon doesn't give off as much energy, so you need more)

A spare Transportation Safety backscatter scanner

And a Boscalone espresso machine. I did go non traditional and get the electric pump model.


OK, so I don't have any of that on my home shotgun.

In fact, other than an elastic butt cuff that holds 5 spare rounds of 00 buckshot, I dont' have squat on my HD shotgun, and I never will.

It's got a wood stock and forearm, an 18.5" barrel with a standard bead, and a 4-round standard length magazine tube.

I don't really truck with all the BOPOS (bolt on pieces of schmidt) that I see so often on these guns.

And far too often, the people I see with these guns have substituted hype and modular parts for actual competency.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm NOT casting aspersions on anyone here -- I'm only recounting what I've observed at indoor and outdoor ranges in Pennsylvania and Virginia over the last 25 or so years.

But I really think that a LOT of people would be better served by taking the money they spent on accessories and spending it on a basic defensive shotgun handling course.



Regarding number of home invaders...

I can't remember whether it was here, or whether it was at the old Compuserve Firearms Forum pre April 2000 (I think it was there) but we had a member who killed three home invaders with his Remington or Mossberg duck hunting gun and duck loads.

IIRC, they broke in in the middle of the night. He grabbed his shotgun, took a good barricade position at the top of the stairs between them and his family, and shouted out that the police were on the way and they should get the hell out.

They made the mistake of firing a couple shots up the stairs and then charging, and he picked off all three of them as they cleared the top of the steps.

A good cyberbuddy of mine, Mac Scott, one of the principals in the old Scott & McDougal gunsmithing firm on Cotai, California, once referred to the shotgun as (paraphrase) "the most devastating firearm most of us will ever have access to, or will ever need."

He's also the one who first used BOPOS in reference to the amazing amount of stuff he was asked to hang on otherwise perfectly servicable shotguns, stuff that he felt detracted immensely from their functionality, and which he apparently felt too many people used as substitutions for good techniques and "less can be a lot more" outlook.

His writings on the subject of shotguns at the old Compuserve Firearms Forum impressed me mightily, and made me look at the humble home defense gun in a very different light.

tet4
January 6, 2011, 09:59 PM
The way I address the ID/light issue is with plug in led nightlight/emergency lights all over the house. This way, even if the power is off, I can still around inside the home, and they are bright enough to be able to know if it's someone you want in the house or not.

Truthfully, this is just a side benefit. I like the night light set up because when I get up at night I don't have to turn on any lights or get a flash light, etc. It's useful on a daily basis, and useful in an emergency.

So, I do that and keep the firearms as simple as possible.

markj
January 7, 2011, 05:16 PM
One of the cats from a night vision camera

Demon spawn? :) mine dont sit so still, they run around chasing the mice that want to eat my cow feed.


I like the window over my kitchen sink, on most nights it lites up the entire area, my hallway to the bedrooms are right at it so anyone coming for us is lit up in the hallway by natural lite. That and the clappers :) give me the upper hand. Just look at yer place and ask yerself what can I do to make it easier for me to get around in the dark and not help someone that isnt supposed to be here and go for it.

Them little green nite lites that plug into a wall socket give off a wierd green lite but I can see by it.

jokester_143
January 7, 2011, 05:38 PM
I've read so many of these threads, as I've been lurking the forum for sometime before I actually joined awhile ago... It all boils down to Competency and a Light.

Nnobby45
January 7, 2011, 07:12 PM
However, like you said, even with that many, what's the likelihood that they would stay and fight even 1 or 2 of them have been shot?


Glad you have it all figured out regarding how things will tanspire. Guess there's no chance that, in the confusion of gunfire, they won't all know just were the exit is. Or not be willing to show you their back when they hit the door.

In which case they might stand and fight.

ripnbst
January 7, 2011, 07:18 PM
^They all got in smart guy, I'm sure they can find their way out...

If I was in unfamiliar surroundings and being shot at just about the only thing I'd remember is how to get out. If they aren't showing you their back then what are they doing in the midst of all this gunfire? Running backwards falling over everything in this unfamiliar area? Slowly creeping backwards with their hands in the air? Great, goal achieved. At this point they might listen to you as their friends bleed out in your living room. Tell them to get down and lay there til Police come before you put a hole in them big enough to put Paris Hilton's dog in.

It all goes back to my big question, exactly how big is the house you live in? Do you have maps in each wing like most malls? Do you live in what most would classify as a compound? Be realistic. Even some of the biggest houses I've been in, and believe me I've been in some marvelous homes, I could find my way to the door in a hurry.

TheKlawMan
January 7, 2011, 08:50 PM
Not having an LEO experience, forgive me if I am talking through the back end, but it seems much of the debate over how to equip a home defense shotgun turns on how the bad guy(s) will react. Will they beat feet to the door when challenged with a 12 gauge or will they charge even as the first is knocked down with a hole in his chest. I would think that may depend on how rationally they react which may turn on their ingestion of drugs. A cool and calm professional cat burglar may react quite differently that an amateur crazed on pcp?

As for how much ammo to carry, and if it is true that statisticly a home invasion is perpetrated by one or two persons, I suppose one might wish to plan for the anomolous party of Mansons. Personally, I have yet to make my mind up on a side saddle as I lean to keeping things simple so as not to add weight or things to catch on whatever.

Nnobby45
January 7, 2011, 11:58 PM
^They all got in smart guy, I'm sure they can find their way out...



^ Not being smart. Sneaking in is one thing. Leaving under a hail of gunfire all at once is something else. Might have been a window they came through--one at a time. When things start to happen, the home owner could end up between them and a back window they entered from. Lot's of other possibility, but in any event, folks (even armed ones) have been killed by intruders who, for whatever reason, didn't head for the exit "they can find there way out" of.

soundhd
January 9, 2011, 07:14 AM
I would say (if you plan on doing any sort of practice shooting at the range) get a recoil reducing stock and a better forend (lost of them out there now...Kicklite, Knoxx, etc....and pretty inexpensive)......if you plan on using the weapon for home defense inside the home I suggest finding a "legal" way to shorten it.......even the short Tactical shotguns have a hard time working around inside a home (that's what my 45 auto is for).....but recently Taurus has come out with revolvers that use 410 shot shells.......seems like those would work really nice in a "inside" the home "situation".........just food for thought..........:D