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OfficerJohnson10
January 2, 2011, 09:32 PM
I've possibly come across a M4 patrolman model brand spanking new for a steal of a price so I'm just looking for some information on if Bushmaster ARs are of a good quality and reliable beyond simple paper punching; especially those of recent production (2009-present). I've already searched for this info on google and other forums and have come across mixed reviews about Bushmaster and I'm concerned because the latest postings I can find on the web (2009ish) say that Bushmasters quality has diminished and they are not producing the unit that they once had.

That being said, can anyone provide some insight on Bushmaster along with some actual first hand knowledge? This may be a rifle I consider using for work and I'm wondering if maybe I should save my pennies for another day.:confused:

Thanks in advance for the replies:D

Quentin2
January 2, 2011, 09:52 PM
Officer, I would not trust it as a duty gun. Of course it's probably not a horrible rifle but your life is worth more than a couple hundred dollars. I'd aim a little higher.

geetarman
January 2, 2011, 09:54 PM
I have a Bushmaster flat top that is tighter than my DPMS. It has a chromed chamber and barrel and has yet to fail. I did change out the trigger to a Timney.

Mine is a model XM15-E2S. I have had no problems with the gun other than a gritty stock trigger. . .that I fixed.

I removed the carry handle and installed an Eotech sight. Can't remember what model. I think it is a 512.

Geetarman:D

riggins_83
January 2, 2011, 10:03 PM
I have two Bushmaster rifles (both standard XM15-E2S series), one being their ORC and one being a heavy barrel V-match. I've had zero issues with either. I shoot only Federal 5.56 XM193F from the ORC and have had the rifle very hot (several magazInes rapid fired), never a jam.

steelhdgreg
January 2, 2011, 10:04 PM
For some good solid information let me refer you to M4Carbine.net.

Me, I would not trust my life to a Bushy. JMHO

Blackops_2
January 2, 2011, 10:52 PM
I agree with Steelhdgreg, while it's not to say that bushmasters are bad in general but in a weapon system that at times your life depends on, i wouldn't put my life in the hands of a company with mixed reviews. Some people can say all companies have those but, hell look at reviews of LMT, Noveske, Colt, BCM, and DD and see how many you can actually find that are negative. Again not trying to gripe towards bushmaster owners or anything just in this particular situation i would opt for something else.

trooper3385
January 2, 2011, 11:29 PM
I'm a State Trooper in Texas and about 4 yrs ago we switched over from the Mini 14's to the Bushmaster M4's, with EOtech sights. We have had Absolutely no problems with the rifle. When we were selecting the rifle, they did a pretty extensive torture test. I believe there were five different brands tested including colt. The bushmaster either out performed or matched the other rifles in reliability. I believe we purchased around 6,000 rifles. The Texas game wardens also switched over to the same rifle we are using, only there's are select fire. I haven't heard of any problems with theres as well. The majority of the rifles were purchased about 4 yrs ago. I recently got a new one and I have only fired a few hundred rounds through it. I haven't had any problems with it yet.

espnazi
January 2, 2011, 11:41 PM
I'm sure many bushmasters work great and they are a bit better than your average cheaper AR, but I would not trust one with my life. For a little bit more or perhaps even the same $$ you can get a BCM, Daniel Defense, or Spikes.

As previously mentioned check M4carbine forums for the facts. This is not based on opinion but on quantifiable features such as better testing, Mil-spec, and materiasl these other companies offer. The bushmaster is a great range gun, but if you run it hard and practice I doubt it will last as long as the top tier counterpart.

demigod
January 3, 2011, 08:53 AM
I would use it for civilian LE patrol if it was well vetted. For rough combat, or end of the world fighting... eh... maybe.

I have a few bushmaster uppers that I've run for years. They're pretty good overall. I use them for dirty work.... silencer shooting, etc. Both of mine have had out of spec A2 sight assemblies that don't function good if you dial up elevation.

Other than that, they've been OK. I'd buy a Colt if I were getting a patrol rifle..... or a BCM.

madcratebuilder
January 3, 2011, 09:06 AM
I have two older BM's that have been 100% reliable rifles. Can't speck for the newer rifles. If I was to buy a off the self M4 today it would be a BCM, Noveske or ArmaLite. For the right price a Bushmaster, then upgrade the BCG, buffer and action spring.

kx592
January 3, 2011, 09:17 AM
i got a newer one, picked it up late 09. Been flawless so far.

demigod
January 3, 2011, 09:58 AM
For the right price a Bushmaster, then upgrade the BCG, buffer and action spring.

That's what I did. I run BCM bolt groups. And I run an H2 since my bushmaster carbine is pretty overgassed.

I bought my bushmasters back when you either had COLT or Bushmaster... 10 plus years back. Now... you have BCM which is infinitely better, and priced great. There's no excuse to buy a new bushmaster in this market.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 3, 2011, 10:52 AM
I wouldn't say Bushmaster has declined in quality. Rather, I'd say that they haven't continued to improve their product while other people have brought improvements in order to get market share in a very competitive area.

If you are willing to take the time to test the rifle prior to using it at work and invest another $50-350 in upgrading parts, I think Bushmaster could be a viable option if the price is good enough. See this thread (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376) for a discussion of upgrading parts for reliability.

demigod
January 3, 2011, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't say Bushmaster has declined in quality. Rather, I'd say that they haven't continued to improve their product while other people have brought improvements in order to get market share in a very competitive area.


I agree. Bushmaster has always had about the same level of QC issues. With all the gun formums, I don't get why they don't try to achieve a High Quality reputation and boast up product improvements.

markm.

Technosavant
January 3, 2011, 02:06 PM
Honestly, Bushmaster seems to be the hardest company to pigeonhole. Some of their rifles are great and run well. Others may not. I'd generally not be too worried about BM quality, but then again, there's stuff that is known high quality at price points that are not greatly removed. The aforementioned Bravo Company is a good example.

If you are wanting a high quality rifle, I think you'd be better served by spending the money from the outset and just getting more from day one.

Buy once, cry once.

Sea Buck
January 3, 2011, 02:09 PM
Bushmaster closed their Maine plant and went to Arizona to take advantage of the cheap(you know who!) labor there. That should speak volumes. I have 2 Bushy's M4A1 16" patrolmen and V-Match 16" that I use for critters, several years old. No complaints and many hundreads of rounds down range.

demigod
January 3, 2011, 02:37 PM
I heard Bushy was closing a facility... But I haven't heard anything about an AZ location. :confused:

Blackops_2
January 3, 2011, 03:22 PM
If the AZ relocation of a plant is true for the reasons that were said that would be a turn off to me. I can't see them doing that but who knows. If i remember right Cerberus has remington, BM, and DPMS correct?

Bartholomew Roberts
January 3, 2011, 05:27 PM
Bushmaster closed their Maine plant and went to Arizona to take advantage of the cheap(you know who!) labor there.

According to the Bushmaster representative quoted in this story (http://www.keepmecurrent.com/news/article_c4b5bfb0-094d-11e0-bc80-001cc4c002e0.html), the company is consolidating its operations in Ilion, NY (i.e. the Remington facility).

Sixer
January 3, 2011, 05:48 PM
My Bushmaster ORC has been 100% reliable. Great AR-15 that I would highly recommend to anyone, based on my experience.

Quentin2
January 3, 2011, 06:25 PM
The Lake Havasu, Arizona plant was where Bushmaster made the Carbon-15 until it was closed a year ago. Soon they will close the main plant in Maine and set up shop at the Remington plant as Bartholomew Roberts said.

I hope all this flux doesn't adversely impact the rifles BM makes.

Sea Buck
January 4, 2011, 08:10 AM
Bushmaster Plant:The Maine plant is closed.73 jobs lost.Here in Maine this fall the news releases said the plant was moving to AZ because of the high cost of production and low sales.Industry does not survive in Maine unless it has very deep pockets:taxes and location. Consolidating to NY will bring it full circle and probably the end of the line for the brand name.

10mmAuto
January 4, 2011, 08:30 AM
Edit: repost

10mmAuto
January 4, 2011, 08:33 AM
Travis Haley, formerly of Force Recon and Blackwater Security, ran a Bushmaster in Iraq as Black Water. Those guys can run pretty much anything they want and the particular man in question really know his ****. $.02

Quentin2
January 4, 2011, 10:34 AM
Sea Buck, thanks for the update on the Maine facility. Very sorry to hear it already closed. As for the Bushmaster name, I doubt the parent company will let it die since it's got to be their best selling AR brand. You just can't lose that kind of market share, especially when it's so easy to stamp lower receivers with that rollmark no matter where they are actually made. Of course they won't be marked Windham, Maine

Deaf Smith
January 4, 2011, 06:45 PM
I'm a State Trooper in Texas and about 4 yrs ago we switched over from the Mini 14's to the Bushmaster M4's, with EOtech sights. We have had Absolutely no problems with the rifle. When we were selecting the rifle, they did a pretty extensive torture test. I believe there were five different brands tested including colt. The bushmaster either out performed or matched the other rifles in reliability. I believe we purchased around 6,000 rifles. The Texas game wardens also switched over to the same rifle we are using, only there's are select fire. I haven't heard of any problems with theres as well. The majority of the rifles were purchased about 4 yrs ago. I recently got a new one and I have only fired a few hundred rounds through it. I haven't had any problems with it yet.

Good enough for me!

And yep, I have two Bushies. Flat top and a standard model that I put a fixed stock on.

Narry a problem.

Deaf

pcardinal42
January 7, 2011, 02:28 AM
Go to M4carbine and learn