PDA

View Full Version : Doc Hoy, where are the pictures?


napp
December 5, 2010, 01:26 PM
Okay Doc, we all know you got a new project from Starbuck. Projects are always deserving of pictures. A good place to start would be some "before" pictures. :D

bedbugbilly
December 5, 2010, 03:26 PM
Maybe his better half found out he was a lookin' for a project and she found him one? :D

Doc Hoy
December 5, 2010, 03:32 PM
Dag nabbit you nailed it.

I just got off of a 22 foot ladder hanging friggin Christmas decorations. I love Christmas and I am really in the spirit this year but hangin decorations instead of fingering a BP revolver project?! Come on now!

I will try to get some shots of this pistol before I start working on it. Actually the first project in line is an 1858 Remington with a cut down barrel. (about four inches)

Photos of that too are in the offing.

starbuck125
December 5, 2010, 05:12 PM
i was really glad to help doc out with his project. it'll need alot of work , but i got alot of faith in doc to get her in good condition. wish you the best of luck doc!!!
doc, don't feel too bad about your wife finding you other things to do, mine found me a few to do today also...:rolleyes:

CameronP
December 5, 2010, 09:32 PM
Happiness is associating with a group of like minded individuals.
Through many a dark hour I've pondered the allure of Remington and Colt Cap and Ball revolvers.
I've tried to relate to my Better Half, the beauty of design and functionality of these guns, but to no avail. I know you fellas can relate to what I'm talking about.
I've been facinated by these guns all my life, and can find no better tranquilizer than in using and caring for them. Second best is reading and participating in this fine Forum. Any body addicited to this sport can't be all that bad.

bedbugbilly
December 5, 2010, 09:42 PM
Doc - glad to hear you didn't fall off that ladder! I did have a thought though . . . since you were talking about Christmas. Why don't you try haning up a couple of holsters this year instead of your regular stocking? Who knows . . . after all the "honey do" work, maybe your better half will fill them holsters up with something that fits 'em? :D

Anxious to see some photos - the Remy sounds like a neat project!

Doc Hoy
December 6, 2010, 05:53 AM
Now that creates an interesting image. Instead of stockings, hang holsters on the fireplace. Only problem is....I only own one holster.


To Cameron,

We spend about ten hours in activities associated with shooting for every hour we spend shooting. I enjoy maintaining these pistol as much as I enjoy shooting the pistol. And that does not include the time we spend chatting on the forums.

I don't call these things guns because guns are only armament of one inch and higher caliber and mounted to the decks of ships. :rolleyes: . On the serious side you are correct. The pistols have an innate beauty which is difficult to resist. I often say, "You could show me a million photos of an 1860 Colt and when you showed me the million and first, I would still say, Dang....that is a purdy pistol."

Doc Hoy
December 6, 2010, 06:52 AM
The first is of the left side of the weapon. Doesn't show much detail but I will say that the revolver has a four digit serial number (2393) on the frame but no date code. It appears to have been a kit that was only partially finished but then shot in it's partially finished state.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/LeftSide.jpg

The next photo shows the left grip. The purchaser (who is not Starbuck125 who simply got the pistol in a box of stuff at a sale) did not finish the grips to much extent. They are somewhat contours to the frame but the final product is anything but smooth. Every screw in the pistol is loose. The nipples were tight but I was able to remove all but one with a nipple wrench and a little fortitude.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/LeftGrip.jpg

The next photo shows the muzzle with the missing latch, site, and spring and toggle in the loading lever. When I received the revolver, the wedge had been installed upside down. The spring leaf was missing. The cylinder is corroded and the barrel was never finished. The bore is troubling but I think it can be cleaned up to a shootable condition. The plunger in the loading lever has been filed fo some reason and will probably need replacing.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Muzzle.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/FrameandArbor.jpg

The final shot shows the really troubling facets. You can see that the pistol is at half cock and the bolt is retracted. Good, right? Wrong!...The bolt does not move at all. You can also see that the hand is retracted. It also does not move. I found no lubrication on the arbor which is ever so slightly loose. The locating pins are missing. You cansee by the impressions of the cylinder on the recoil shield that the pistol has been fired.

The hammer goes to half cock and full cock at what appear to be the right positions so I think the hammer and trigger are okay.

There is an awful lot wrong with this pistol but I am personally thrilled to get it. I am going to start ordering parts for it today. I am certain that I will encounter significant difficulty in obtaining OEM parts as ASM has been out of business for a long time. I have been through the various stockers of ASM parts at length on another project and very few parts remain. The few that do remain are more or less interchangeable with Pietta.

At this writing I know I need an internals kit, a sight, the latch assembly for the loading lever, the wedge, the locating pins, which I will probably make, and probably a plunger. One good thing is that I already have a perfect specimen of this very pistol to use as a model and possible test bed. I also have many of these parts in either new or very good condition in my parts supply.

I was working on an 1858 Remington as my next project but I think that may move to second place in favor of this pistol.

More later.

zippy13
December 6, 2010, 07:35 AM
Doc, from your pics, it seems the original owner made little or no effort to finish the castings nor many other parts. Does it make you wonder, just what are folks expecting when they order a pistol in "kit" form?

Doc Hoy
December 6, 2010, 07:50 AM
Yes indeed it does.

This pistol was obviously assembled enough to get it shooting and nothing more. Then is appears to have been shot enough times to mark the recoil shield but never cleaned or lubricated. I think that qualifies as "abuse".

I want to emphasize that I got this pistol from Starbuck who IS NOT the guy who abused the pistol. Starbuck got it in a box of hunting stuff at a sale. He is not responsible for any of the shortcomings of this revolver.

I also wish to post two updates to the photos post.

I originally said the hammer and trigger seem to be okay....Scratch that. At full cock, all you have to do is shake the pistol a little bit to get the hammer to fall.

As well, I got the last nipple out of the pistol using the vice contraption I came up with a while back.

I reviewed my supply of parts and have most of what I need. Although, I am afraid I will be making a sight. I don't have it and the three places I checked don't seem to stock it.

junkman_01
December 6, 2010, 08:20 AM
Good luck Doc, I know you can do it. :cool:

napp
December 6, 2010, 09:32 AM
Doc,
The only thing that would have made me sadder would have been for you to post pics of little abused puppies. :eek:

Keep us updated on the refurb...restore my faith in human nature. :D

DrLaw
December 6, 2010, 05:22 PM
I had an ASM Navy 51. The mainspring broke and nothing would replace it. I tried several, but they were all too short. I finally had to resort to having a gunsmith make me another, but there were so many other issues with the ASM that I just let him keep the gun rather than pay for the work on it.

The Doc is out now. :cool:

Doc Hoy
December 6, 2010, 05:35 PM
DrLaw,

You bring up an interesting point. In all my years of shooting and exposure to numerous Colt and Remington clones of various descriptions I have never had a failure of a main spring.

Now in point of fact I don't shoot all that much. Maybe as often as every other week end during the warm season. Yet I read often on this and other forums about the requirement to replace mainsprings.

Maybe it is the way I hold my tongue. :)

Seriously, Can someone share with me the conditions under which the main spring let go?

How about the location of the break. (tip? middle?)

Did you get any warning such as a weak hammer pull or a misfire before the failure?

Fingers McGee
December 6, 2010, 07:50 PM
Doc,

I've never broken a mainspring either. Now, a trigger/bolt spring or hand spring is a horse of a different color.

bedbugbilly
December 6, 2010, 07:57 PM
What a neat project! I'd leave the rough cast triggerguard alone - it really adds "character" to the piece! :D The missing latch piece for the loading lever . . . well heck . . . nothing a rubber band wouldn't fix in short order! And those grips . . . "just more to hold on to!" :D

On the serious side . . . (If there is such a thing!?) . . . I have a feeling that by the time Doc gets finished with this little gem it will shine like a diamond ring from the Sears Roebuck catalog!

NoW Doc . . about only having one holster . . . :)

Doc Hoy
December 7, 2010, 03:18 AM
.....I only have one holster because I only have one right hip. :D

No...there is no serious side, BBB. But if there were one I would be responding that you guys should be looking closer at the finished project photos I am posting. You are far more confident than I am. :)

Doc Hoy
December 7, 2010, 05:43 PM
Dixie Gun Works of all places. Hope it fits.

DrLaw
December 9, 2010, 09:49 PM
Sorry for the delay in getting back here. The mainspring just plain cracked in two. I was thumbing back the hammer and heard a crack, and then the hammer went back with no pressure whatsoever. I gingerly pulled on the trigger while holding the hammer and there was no movement.

It just plain cracked, and I had done absolutely nothing to the spring, nothing!

Oh well, I figure, stuff happens. So I ordered from Dixie. Wrong length. Okay, Order from VTI, wrong length. Hey, what gives? How hard is it to get a '51 replica spring I was wondering? Apparently, for an ASM, pretty dang hard!

Also, while the smithy was working on it, we bent back the grip frame, which came to me bent. And then there was a frozen nipple.

I had bought it from EMF many years ago (1970's).

The Doc is out now. :cool:

Slowhand
December 9, 2010, 10:10 PM
Doc Hoy

Great pictures. Especially the one of the arbor. Almost unbelievable that anyone would let a weapon get into that shape. Even a replica.

But then we don't know what happed. Some poor fellow could have taken it to the range got home... had the big one, a family member tossed the thing in a box and viola there it sat. Who knows?? There numerous scenarios where stuff just seems to happen and it's one of those you would have had to been there things.

Anyway the good stuff is that it is in good hands now and like most of the other responders I'm just waiting to see the end product.

Thanks for the pictures.

Doc Hoy
December 10, 2010, 06:16 AM
Dr.Law....interesting to know how the spring broke and also a valid point on letting the revolver go without spending all of the money for repairs.

I absolutely can not remember what manufacturer was responsible for the pistols I had when I first started out but they were all kits purchased through Shotgun News. EMF's advertisement was their in SN and it they were the lowest cost kits, then EMF kits is what I bought. I don't remember ever having trouble with any kit I bought. This was early seventies.

For Slowhand,

You have also presented a worthwhile position. Kindness alone compels one to allow that there was a valid reason for the treatment this pistol underwent. In point of fact I just picked up a G&G clone which has some obvious internal problems and very little lubrication appears to have been applied to this pistol too. More on that one in another thread.

Doc Hoy
December 11, 2010, 06:05 PM
Today I had a chance to get insode of this ASM Colt.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/ASM1860disassembly1.jpg

You can see from the photo that the bolt leaf is broken. I have a spare but it will take some filing. (Not uncommon.) Notice the corrosion on all the internals. I think this pistol was never lubricated. In the previous photos you can tell that the pistol has been fired. When I pulled the spring out, I noticed that the spring screw is damaged. It appears to have been broken off and the remaining piece used.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/ASM1860disassembly4.jpg

The second photo shows the hand with broken spring. You can see that the hand itself is it pretty good condition. A little corroded but plent of metal left to do the filing and shaping to get the action right.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/ASM1860disassembly5.jpg

The third photo was initially intended just to show the terrible mess inside of the frame. But if you take acloser look you can see that the pin that tightens up the arbor appears to bave been pushed way inside the frame. The head of the pin is barely visible. The arbor is slightly loose.

I tries soap and water and a stiff bristle brush but the black crud is really caked on. I have the frame and triggerguad soaking in gasoline to see if I can break it up a little.

This pistol has a long way to go.

Doc Hoy
December 11, 2010, 06:07 PM
I cleaned up the barrel and miraculously the bore is in pretty good shape. It will take a little steel wool or scotch brite pad but I think it will clean up to shootable condition.

Hardy
December 11, 2010, 07:23 PM
Doc,
You seem to like brassers, so do I. But in our store we are trying now to sell steel frames that fit conversions. I have 4 pietta 44c brassers 1 reb Confederate, One Tex 1858, 2 sherriffs (1 octaganol and 1 round) All new in box and probably only been cocked a few times from curious customers. I want to sell them all at good price to make more room in display $585 for all 4:)

Doc Hoy
December 12, 2010, 02:31 AM
I can't say I am partial to brass frame revolvers. I got this pistol and a couple others by putting out feelers for some clunkers to work on as projects. In cases like that, you takes what you gets.

This one was given to me by a poster who got it in a box of junk. I sent him the cost of shipping and he sent me the pistol.

I am going to try very hard to restore the pistol and not just part it out. I did get hold of a G&G in poor condition that I will likely just take apart and sell. I have three others of the G&G model and certainly don't need a fourth.

I also have one other ASM 1860 (Brass .44) but I am challenged to get this pistol shooting again. I am fairly certain that I will put more into it than it will ever be worth.

napp
December 12, 2010, 11:55 AM
Doc,
If you decide to sell, don't forget the obligatory, "Appears unfired...cylinder has been turned". :D

Doc Hoy
December 12, 2010, 02:55 PM
I have the frame cleaned up to the point where I feel I can work on it to get the actrion functioning. The locating pin for the arbor was not missing it was indeed driven further into the frame. I set it a little deeper with a punch and then centerpunched the frame just above and below the arbor in the hammer channel. This tightened it up. I want to emphasize it was not very loose to start with.

Here is the left side of the frame.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Frameafter2.jpg

Here is the rfight side. Note that the CVA emblem is completely gone.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Frameafter1.jpg

Here are acoupla shots inside the frame.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Frameafter3.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Frameafter4.jpg


And in these shots I tried to show the side surfaces inside the frame.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Frameafter5.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Frameafter6.jpg

Fingers McGee
December 12, 2010, 07:38 PM
Lookin Good Doc. You are indeed a craftsman.

Hardy
December 13, 2010, 09:10 PM
Thanks Doc.
1 year ago everyone lookin for c/b in our store wanted the brass 44. Now, not really sure why, but it's all steel frame 36c. Um, I ordered them regularly and sold them but I still have 4 left no one is wanting at this time:rolleyes: But, I think all 4 in a nice display box would make a nice gift to someone out there for Chistmas. I want to clear them out. But I kinda am fond of the Tex 58 though. Tex 1858 at top-- the 2 sherriffs in middle and the Reb Navy underneath would make a good display. Tell your friends. They are all unfired Piettas w/box and papers and will now sell for $569. Is that a good price? Remember the Tex should be worth some what more than the rest. And the round barrel sherriff was always the most popular of them all.

WB HICKUP HARDY

starbuck125
December 14, 2010, 09:44 PM
doc,
lookin good!! when i first came across it in that old box, i never would have thought that it would ever even start to look that good. really glad that i passed it along to you.

Doc Hoy
December 14, 2010, 11:54 PM
I will try to do it justice.

Doc Hoy
January 1, 2011, 11:25 AM
Here are some photos of the finishing of the barrel.

The first three photos are of the unfinished side (I worked on the left side just for a comparison.) Note the two rings on the barrel where the lathe advanced abruptly. It is far less noticable but there are some pretty bad tool marks for the entire length of the turned part of the barrel.

Also no attempt was made either at the factory or by the original assembler (the pistol was a kit) to smooth out the barrel. In a different thread I talked about the lines in the contours of the lug end of the 1860/61 barrel. To me these lines make the pistol look unfinished. I think that gradual transition are vital in giving the 1860 its graceful appearance.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Barrelunfinished1.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/barrelunfinished2.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/barrelunfinished3.jpg

I worked on the left side of the barrel with a file and with some course paper. Obviously the metal is not ready for blueing but at least the rings and lines are gone.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Barrelsmoothed3.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/barrelsmoothed2.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/barrelsmoothed1.jpg

napp
January 1, 2011, 12:27 PM
Just let me say that I am impressed with the progress you are making. Take that as a compliment; because I am not easily impressed. :D

Hawg
January 1, 2011, 01:11 PM
Lookin good Doc. Is it still gonna say ASM Italy when you get through?

bedbugbilly
January 1, 2011, 01:39 PM
Lookin' gooooood Doc! You worked wonders on that barrel! Don't forget to take some time off to celebrate New Years! And Happy New Years by the way, to you and all! :)

Doc Hoy
January 1, 2011, 01:53 PM
Thanks Napp.

Hawg,

The ASM stamping near the bottom of the barrel will stay. The stamping was well executed all letters being stamped to the same depth.

BBB,

I am celebrating New Years by working in the shop.

zippy13
January 1, 2011, 02:14 PM
Very pleasing re-contouring -- ASM wasn't even close!

Doc Hoy
January 1, 2011, 07:38 PM
I have a pistol exactly like this already finished. Only difference is that it did not start out as a kit pistol. The finish on the barrel is way better.

Doc Hoy
January 9, 2011, 01:16 PM
I did a little finishing on the barrel and cylinder but that part of the project has a little ways to go. I'll save that for later.

I also worked on the action a bit. Perhaps you remember from the first post that for the most part the action of this pistol did not work. I cleaned up and replaced several of the internal parts including the trigger/bolt spring, the trigger, and the hand. I still could not get the pistol to remain in full cock, nor could I get the cylinder to advance when I cocked it.

The problem with the cylinder advance was that the replacement hand (Pietta) was too long. The hand was not retracting far enough for the tip of the hand to slip off of the ratchet so it could catch the next ratchet. I ground it down by about thirty thousandths and that corrected the cylinder problem.

As for the failure of the pistol to remain at full cock, I found that the ASM hammer did not match up quite right with the Pietta trigger. I had worked on an ASM 1863 Remington some months ago in which I had to adapt parts from Pietta to fit it and found the same situation. In that case I reworked the contours of the trigger. But in this case, the problem was with the hammer. I have included a comparison of the ASM hammer and the Pietta hammer. You can see that the ASM hammer which is on the top has a full cock ledge which is not nearly as deep as the Pietta ledge. (It is worn from being worked without lubrication too.) In addition you can see the radius of the ASM hammer below the full cock ledge is more rounded and would interfere with the trigger depending upon the shape of the trigger.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Hammercomp1.jpg

I went to work in the ASM hammer with a file to deepen the full cock ledge, change the angle of the ledge slightly so as to more positively engage the trigger sear and also changed the contour of the hammer below the full cock ledge so as not to interfere with the trigger. The second photo shows a comparison of the two hammers after the work was done on the ASM (left).

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/Hammercomp2.jpg

This was a gradual process. First I got the pistol to remain at full cock. Then more work on the hammer was done to adjust the trigger pull. It started out at about half a pound. (Way too dangerous). I finally wound up with the hammer looking as it does in the photo and the trigger pull is right at three pounds.

My original action on this problem was to simply replace the ASM hammer with a Pietta hammer. This actually made the pistol work, but as it happens the ASM hammer is about .02 thicker than the Pietta hammer and so it fits the pistol better.

Doc Hoy
January 9, 2011, 04:22 PM
The barrel polished

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Barrelfinished.jpg

The barrel blued

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Barrelblued2.jpg

The pistol partially reassembled

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Pistolright.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Pistolleft.jpg

junkman_01
January 9, 2011, 04:34 PM
Doc,

You do beautiful restoration work! It's hard to believe it's the same gun you started with. ;)

Doc Hoy
January 9, 2011, 04:52 PM
This is my first try using the Van's bluing. I think I like it.

BTW Thanks for the compliment.

starbuck125
January 9, 2011, 07:33 PM
doc,
you truly are a very skilled craftsman:D

Doc Hoy
January 9, 2011, 07:55 PM
Hey... Its just a file and some sandpaper...

;)

DiscoRacing
January 9, 2011, 08:01 PM
Its just a file and some sandpaper

Yeah..yeah... thats what they all say...

... NICE!!!

Doc Hoy
January 10, 2011, 06:53 AM
I am learning a lot about trigger pull working on this revolver.

I have also determined that I like testing trigger pull buy simply removing the nipples. I think Mykeal recommended that technique.

mrappe
January 10, 2011, 09:15 AM
Nice work Doc! What kind of bluing process did you do? I have an old Pietta 1860 that I have been thinking about re-finishing just for fun. The gun looks OK but, I like metal finishing and rust bluing. I thought about trying to CCH the receiver if I can find an economical furnace.

Doc Hoy
January 10, 2011, 12:52 PM
I used Van's Bluing. It provides a color which is very much like the blue on the Colt second and third generation pistols. It is a deep shiney transparent grey rather than the black that you find on some of the replicas.

This means that surface prep is very important since the blueing hides absolutely nothing.

As far as CCH, that is in my future but I think I will use charcoal and bone with air blown in to raise the temp. I have a lot of research to do on that topic before I start and it will be on a piece of scrap rather than on a good steel frame.

Thanks for the compliment and the continuing conversation

CameronP
January 10, 2011, 08:22 PM
Doc:

Where would an individual obtain the "Van's Bluing" you mentioned???

arcticap
January 10, 2011, 09:59 PM
The company has a link to buy it on their home page:

http://www.vansgunblue.com/

Doc Hoy
January 11, 2011, 06:34 AM
...not buying the whole kit. The citrus degreaser doesn't work as well as acetone.

I like the oil but can't compare its performance to simple gun oil. I may have more to say on that later.

I found that I almost had to work the finish in with real fine steel wool. The first application looked so uneven I was about to write a nasty letter. But working the finish in with repeated application and then smoothing with fine steel wool while the bluing is drying makes the finish more even.

Doc Hoy
January 17, 2011, 05:52 PM
...but the more I looked at the barrel, the more I realized that the original owner had taken a file to the dovetail on the bottom of the barrel. There was no dovetail left, only 90 degree walls. I don't know how the guy intended to put the barrel catch into the barrel.

There is no way a standard barrel catch will work because the base of the dovetail (what is left of it) is wider than the base of a barrel catch. Consequently I had to make a barrel catch with an oversized base. I also had to go to town on the barrel with a file to put angles in the barrel to catch the dovetail of the barrel catch.

I started with a piece of 3/4 inch round stock and milled it down to the right profile to catch the dovetail I filed in the barrel.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Barrelcatch1.jpg

Next I releaved the catch to allow for the length of the loading lever.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/BarrelCatch3.jpg

I smoothed the contour of the catch on a belt sander. (Steel gets hot pretty quick and it is hard to hold onto the piece of steel which is roughly 3/8 by 3/8 by 1/2 with ungloved fingers.)

I drove the catch into the barrel .

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/BarrelCatch6.jpg

Notice that the catch has not been finish to accept the lever latch, because I don't yet know where it is going to need to be filed.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/BarrelCatch4.jpg

I also mate a sight for the pistol. Here it is with both parts in place.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/SightandCatch1.jpg

napp
January 17, 2011, 07:02 PM
It's looking good, Doc. I envy your tooling capabilities. I'm pretty much limited to hammers and bigger hammers. :)

Hardcase
January 17, 2011, 07:06 PM
Nice work, Doc. I'm in the same position as napp, except that I have trouble with hammers.

Doc Hoy
January 18, 2011, 06:52 AM
...the dimension of the base from angle to angle. The rest was done with just a comparison of a workable catch.

The fit was good and I had to go to a bigger hammer to drive it in place.

So I am a "bigger hammer" guy too.

If I had it to do over again, I would make it wider so as to cover more of the width (from side to side). Maybe I will try again. One thing for sure, an OEM catch is out of the question.

Doc Hoy
January 19, 2011, 12:34 PM
I have a plunger on order from DGW. But since the part is so simple in design, I decided to make one. (Always good to have an extra plunger laying around)

Turned it down from 3/4 inch round stock. Milled the slot and drilled and tapped the hole for the screw.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Plunger4.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Plunger2.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Plunger1.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/Plunger3.jpg


It works pretty good.

junkman_01
January 19, 2011, 12:44 PM
Doc,

I may have missed something, but didn't the gun have a plunger as you received it? :confused:

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/ASM1860/LeftSide.jpg

Doc Hoy
January 19, 2011, 02:36 PM
It did/does have a plunger but the plunger had been worked on using a coarse file. In addition the screw was removed and replaced with a poorly fitting pin.

Since I load with a press almost all of the time the loading lever is really for looks only. But this one seems to be every bit as functional as the original. As I said, I have a plunger on order but just wanted to try making this one.

When working with a mill and small pieces I am learning that there is a strategy in to sequence of steps involved. Both with the lever catch and the plunger, the parts were almost completely finished before I removed them from the waste stock This gave me something to hold onto, gave strength to the piece while I was working it and actually resulted in less scrap.

MEATSAW
January 19, 2011, 03:52 PM
Hey Doc you happen to know what size nipples that gun has? If you replaced them what did you replace them with?

Hardcase
January 19, 2011, 04:32 PM
Doc, I don't mean to derail your thread, but do you think that the kind of work that you're doing could be done with a drill press and the appropriate bits? I've got a 15" Delta floor drill press and I've always wondered if I could do stuff like that if I had an end mill set and the proper table. What do you think?

Doc Hoy
January 19, 2011, 05:11 PM
MS,

I did not replace the nipples but they are a coarser thread than Pietta. I did not bother to check the threads but I think that if Mykeal is reading this thread he will wade in with a cross reference of nipple sizes for the different Italian manufacturers.

HC,

That is a darned fine drill press. Problem with that press is that there are a lot of variables.

1. The head needs to be tightened down real snug
2. The table needs to be snug too and squared with the spindle (which I think is easy on that press.)
3. I have not found a good two axis vice for less than about three hundred bucks. The vice needs to be held very tight onto the table. This arrangement actually simplifies milling slightly because the axis of the jaws is automatically at quadrature with the movement of the vice in its two axis of motion. Clamping a vice to a milling machine is a set-up process in its own right.
4. A drill press chuck is not generally designed to hold cutting tools but you can make it tight enough it you jack on the chuck key enough.
5. I do not know if the spindle of the drill press can be locked in a fixed position. This is important unless you have three hands.
6. Drill presses are generally not substantial such as to withstand much side force. A lathe suffers from the same deficiency. (This is why bump knurling is not recommended using a lathe.) So if you try to do much milling it should be only light duty milling. The nice thing about your particular drill press, is that it is a very good one and if any press can take it, yours can.

My recommentation is to get yourself a cheap vice like one from Harbor Freight and get some cheap general purpose end mills. Set up some scrap stock and see how you feel about the noise coming from the drill press.

Then, once you are comfortable with the way your set up is performaing you will know whether or not to put more money into a better vice.

BUT

The cost of the milling machine is only a small part of the investment. You can easily have as much money into trying to use your drill press as a mill as you would have just going out and buying a used mill.

I gave $400.00 plus two old rifles for mine. It is a Grizzly two horse bench model. It is the biggest mill they make for a bench and I would not want anything smaller. Weighs seven hundred pounds. The lathe is a Grizzly 10 by 22 which I bought new. Neither of the machines are extremely precise but for what I paid for them I can get used to it.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/g3358Mill.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/g0602Lathe.jpg

Do not....I say again.....Do not make the miostake of buying a combination lathe mill drill.

Hardcase
January 19, 2011, 05:46 PM
Thanks, Doc - it's another thing to add to my list of stuff that I want to do when I come across that mythical free time that I hear other people talk about.

mykeal
January 19, 2011, 07:26 PM
A nipple cross reference by manufacturer? Hmmm. I haven't actually done anything like that, but maybe I can...

Here's the chart of all the different nipple threads I've come across:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/NippleThreadSizes.jpg

Now, as to what manufacturer uses which size...

Uberti uses 1/4x28x0.635 (the third number is overall height), aka Treso 11-50-01, TotW RST-A, in the horse pistols - Walker and Dragoons. So does ASM.

Uberti uses 12x28x0.501 in the medium frame guns like the 1851 and 1860. This is Treso 11-50-16, TotW PCC-A.

I have absolutely no idea what the #@%& Uberti uses in the pocket pistols. On two of them, when I tried to install the TotW listed replacement, it wouldn't start. And the OEM nipples don't fit my Brownell's thread checkers. The tread MD is 0.208". ***??? The third one takes a very short metric 6x0.75.

Pietta uses metric 6x0.75mm for all of their revolvers (I think). Treso 11-50-10,, TotW PIR-A.

Euroarms uses the metric 6x0.75 in everything but the 1860 Army, which takes a 12x28.

That's revolvers only, by the way. Long guns is a whole nuther story. Don't even get me started....

Tanker6
January 19, 2011, 07:34 PM
I hope ya'll take this in the best possible way.....but

guys with that much talent and knowledge **** me off. :D

Too cool.....way too cool (as my daughter would say).;)

Doc Hoy
January 19, 2011, 09:37 PM
If you are refering to my tinkering, I thanks you but you gotta understand that most of this stuff I am doing by accident.

I am convinced that a machinist would cringe at some of my techniques.

I wish I could even think about calling my self a sometimes gunsmith.

Tanker6
January 21, 2011, 11:32 AM
Well, Doc....."accidental gunsmithing" or not....I'm impressed.


BTW, I'm originally from right up the road from you.....born and raised in good ole Richmond. :rolleyes:

Doc Hoy
January 21, 2011, 12:26 PM
I hope you relocated to a place where it snows more.

(I like snow)

Tanker6
January 21, 2011, 12:59 PM
Sorry Doc, but snow here on the Gulf Coast is an anomaly at best. It is a bit cooler today though....only goin' to 54. ;) 'Course, in another month or so, it'll be summer again....I tell my kin folk back in VA that we only have three seasons here -- December, January and Summer....;)

Doc Hoy
January 23, 2011, 02:19 PM
Three photos of the finished revolver.

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/After4.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/After1.jpg


http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt259/Dochoy/After3.jpg

zippy13
January 23, 2011, 02:51 PM
BRAVO!

junkman_01
January 23, 2011, 03:23 PM
Very nice job Doc!

Hardcase
January 23, 2011, 04:15 PM
Well done, Doc, that's a project to be proud of.

Tanker6
January 23, 2011, 04:20 PM
Veeery Nice! I like it!

napp
January 23, 2011, 09:13 PM
...and thus, another "origin unknown; but appears to have been meticulously maintained" pistol is born. :D

Great job Doc. It's been fun following the project.

Doc Hoy
January 23, 2011, 09:48 PM
Got a short barrel Remington to work on next.

starbuck125
January 24, 2011, 08:41 PM
doc,
just wanted to say....WELL DONE !!!!!!!!! you just made my day, seeing the great a job you did to bring that one back . or should i say making it look like it should have been in the first place.
you did a outstanding job, a true craftsman.
if i ever run across another( god forgive ) i know who a holler at.

Bill Akins
January 24, 2011, 08:43 PM
Great restoration Doc.