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View Full Version : red dot for moving targets??


nottelybill
December 4, 2010, 08:52 PM
I am 71 and have never been a good wing shooter or skeet for that matter. I am wondering if a red dot mounted on my 20 ga. would help improve my shooting??

seansean1444
December 4, 2010, 08:59 PM
i have heard this is a great option for wing shooting. its called the burris speed bead red dot.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Optics/Red-Dots-Lasers%7C/pc/104792580/c/104752080/sc/104526180/Burris-Speed-Bead/732621.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-optics-red-dots-lasers%2F_%2FN-1100252%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104526180

oneounceload
December 4, 2010, 09:17 PM
A proper-fitting gun will come to the shoulder smoothly and you will be pointing at the target - no bead or sight is necessary, let alone something adding weight and encumbrance......

Double Naught Spy
December 4, 2010, 10:08 PM
A red dot sight certainly may benefit your shooting. However, the cost of the sight might be better spent on getting some 1:1 tutoring from a professional who can diagnose and help correct whatever problems are keeping you from being a better shooter.

A proper-fitting gun will come to the shoulder smoothly and you will be pointing at the target...

No doubt that an improperly fit shotgun is more likely to cause problems than provide benefits. However, a properly fit shotgun that shoulders smoothly is hardly the only criterion that will put a shooter on target. Certainly the shooter is going to want to have a proper cheek weld and to be sighting along the top of the barrel. The shooter is going to need to know where the gun is patterning with the particular load as well.

- no bead or sight is necessary,

Well, I guess it could be argued that a lot of guns don't actually need sights so long as the shooter knows how to index along the barrel and is very good at doing it. However, a bead or other sight most definitely can be beneficial. You won't catch too many professional or competitive shotgunners using shotguns without some sort of sight(s). http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&expIds=17259,17311,25757,25854,25907,26339,27642,27744,27798,27890,27937&sugexp=lcprodsca4&xhr=t&q=olympic+shotgun+shooting&cp=9&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ACAW_enUS399US399&wrapid=tljp1291516598484313&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=979&bih=429

let alone something adding weight and encumbrance......
At 1.5 oz., I doubt took many people would even begin to notice the additional weight of the Speed Bead noted above. Encumbrance is minimal as well.

No doubt the weight and encumbrance is less than that of the sights used for some shotgun competitions.
http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=1243
http://www.issf-sports.org/news.ashx?newsid=1337

zippy13
December 4, 2010, 11:31 PM
nottelybill,
Oneonceload and I are not that many years behind you. We agree, the beads on a wing shooting gun are to verify your gun is mounted properly -- not for aiming. An experienced wing shooter won't be looking at the bead, but the target.

I seen shooters, with eye problems, try various alternate sighting devices; but, most find the conventional rib with dual beads works best for wing shooting. There seems to be some controversy about the front bead. New shooters (who are still aiming their shotguns) and developing shooters (who haven't yet gained the confidence to ignore the front bead) may like a high visibility front bead. I find them distracting, others don't. YMMV

At one NSSA tournament, the champion was coming off of the field after running a 100-straight in the final event. As he put his gun in the rack, he gave it a second look and commented, "Looks like I lost my front sight sometime this weekend."

You say you've never been a good wing or skeet shooter, but you didn't say how much you've practiced. Do you shoot a little before bird season, or have you shot thousands of skeet targets, but nothing seems to work? No matter what your age, most can improve their shooting. Does your gun fit you reasonable well? Have you been properly coached in the basics? Do you have any disabilities that prevent you from wing shooting?

zippy13
December 4, 2010, 11:51 PM
I guess it could be argued that a lot of guns don't actually need sights so long as the shooter knows how to index along the barrel and is very good at doing it.

Ah… the old finger trick.
For those of you who were checking out those ISSF comp Perazzis at the links 00-Spy provided, did you happen to notice the index fingers of their left hands?

I talked with NSSA World Champion Alan B. Clark about the pointed index finger on the forend. Al is right handed but shot left because he felt it's that important that his "strong" index finger be pointing at the target.

The "pointer" grip works for the champions, if you haven't given it a try, what could you loose?

Pahoo
December 5, 2010, 11:22 AM
I am wondering if a red dot mounted on my 20 ga. would help improve my shooting??
A RedDot "could" help but there are more variables involved and primarily associated with you. You are going to have to put in some range-time in order to program your eye/mind on it's use. ..... :rolleyes:

I am a RedDot fan and have recommended these to many shootiers. I can honestly say that most have expressed imporved shooting. In time, I'd say that you will not conciously notice the dot. Use of a RedDot produces some surprises. Just keep both eye open and reprogam your mind. It's kind of a Zen thing. ...... :rolleyes:

A proper-fitting gun will come to the shoulder smoothly and you will be pointing at the target - no bead or sight is necessary, let alone something adding weight and encumbrance......
For the most part, this is true and takes time to get there. As for weight, have never heard of this being a problem. ..... :confused:


Be Safe !!!

LSnSC
December 5, 2010, 11:50 AM
A reddot would be fine for slug shooting.

For wing and clay shooting youre pointing the gun, not aiming. I dont think a reddot would work real well. There are too many variations in shooting moving targets to be measuring your amount of lead with an aiming device. If you are worrying how far in front of the target the bead is you will never be a very consistant shooter.

oneounceload
December 5, 2010, 12:13 PM
As for weight, have never heard of this being a problem. .....


Depends on what the weight does to the balance and handling. Even a few ounces, placed in the wrong area, can have a great effect on swing dynamics. If the weight is properly distributed, then added weight will aid in reducing actual recoil

zippy13
December 5, 2010, 12:56 PM
So we don't confuse the newbies, in addition to its use to describe sighting devices, "Red Dot" was originally a smokeless powder suited to targets loads. Red Dot® as well as Green Dot® and Blue Dot® are registered to Alliant Powder of ATK.

Pahoo
December 5, 2010, 02:06 PM
nottelybill
You sound like a gentleman that can afford to buy a medium priced RedDot. Try one and you make the call. If noting else, you can pull it off your shotgun and mount it on whatever else you shoot .... ;)

You won't know, if you don't go !!!


Be Safe !!!

Double Naught Spy
December 5, 2010, 06:23 PM
Semantics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So we don't confuse the newbies, in addition to its use to describe sighting devices, "Red Dot" was originally a smokeless powder suited to targets loads. Red Dot® as well as Green Dot® and Blue Dot® are registered to Alliant Powder of ATK.

I am fairly certain nobody had considered mounting red dot propellant onto their rifles. Burris' Speed Bead red dot isn't confused as a propellant either.

oneounceload
December 5, 2010, 06:48 PM
No doubt that an improperly fit shotgun is more likely to cause problems than provide benefits. However, a properly fit shotgun that shoulders smoothly is hardly the only criterion that will put a shooter on target. Certainly the shooter is going to want to have a proper cheek weld and to be sighting along the top of the barrel. The shooter is going to need to know where the gun is patterning with the particular load as well.

IF the gun fits properly, the "cheek weld" is part of it and becomes a non-issue

Well, I guess it could be argued that a lot of guns don't actually need sights so long as the shooter knows how to index along the barrel and is very good at doing it. However, a bead or other sight most definitely can be beneficial. You won't catch too many professional or competitive shotgunners using shotguns without some sort of sight(s)

Those who shoot a premounted gun for the likes of trap or skeet, use the beads to ensure their mount is proper, nothing more - they are NEVER used during the actual firing at the target. However, those who shoot low gun, such as FITASC or field hunting, have no need at all for any sighting system - if you are looking down the barrels and focusing your sight there, you will be missing the targets - whether clay or feathered.........the shooter's focus needs to be on the target, not the sights

nogo
December 5, 2010, 08:15 PM
Out of curiosity I played with a Tasco red dot on a Mossberg pump. The result was that I aimed instead of pointed. Also, I had to raise my head above the stock to sight through the red dot. This rig was fun to play with and was deadly on crows, but it was a tad clumsy. This device might work nicely on a trap stock with its higher comb. I do not see it as a solution to poor wing shooting skills.

Pahoo
December 6, 2010, 12:53 PM
The result was that I aimed instead of pointed.
Interesting point as not sure what constitutes aiming. To me, part of aiming, is alignment of sites, perhaps keeping one eye closed or purposely putting the crosshairs over the target. Regarless of what I mount them on and I have mouted them on shotguns, I really can't say I aim or point. Instead, I would say that I superimpose the Dot, on the target. At first, it's conciously and later as I get use to it, superimpose un-conciously. I always keep both eyes open and it really just becomes and extension of both eyes. It's hard to explain and better apreciated by just doing it ...... :confused:

Be Safe !!!

BigJimP
December 6, 2010, 01:30 PM
In my opinion - for any moving targets - feather or clay ....a red dot sight is a big mistake.

As others have said - you do not allign sights or beads for wingshooting or clay target shooting / except when you first mount the gun - and only to make sure you haven't canted the gun as you mounted it ....( then you ignore the beads ...and never, ever, look at your barrel again ) as you execute the shot .... You "Feel" the lead - you don't allign any sights ...

I'm only a few yrs younger than the OP - and bad eyesight is killing my scores too ...but a red dot is not the way to go in my opinion.

oneounceload
December 6, 2010, 03:02 PM
Interesting point as not sure what constitutes aiming. To me, part of aiming, is alignment of sites, perhaps keeping one eye closed or purposely putting the crosshairs over the target.

For a rifle, (or using a shotgun like one for deer or turkey), aiming is correct - static targets get aimed at, dynamic ones require full focus on the target - with proper fit and form, you and the gun will move in sync and as necessary to hit the target