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View Full Version : "Sawed off" cheat: Factory stock?


mr_goodbomb
December 3, 2010, 05:38 AM
I remember seeing a mare's leg rifle that was legal without the added tax because it came stock from the factory as a short-barreled rifle.

So, my question is, if a company were to make a short-barreled shotgun, like the Mad Max shotgun for example, would it be legal without the tax?

deathrider
December 3, 2010, 08:25 AM
long time ago I had a shotgun that was sawed off, but was legal. in overall length as well as barrel, however it folded in 1/2, it was made by Beretta, & was a 12 gauge, it was quite light. it was a chrome moly barrel, & someone driled small holes to try to lighten barrel or to make it look like a flash supressor the last 6" of barrel

it was an ametuer hack job, the guy that had bought it new, son had slipped it & hacked it up, & had use a normal drill to drill holes, they were not even in any kind of order, & had used a wood burning kit I guess to make designs like a tattoo on all the wood, the son was majorily reprimanded & grounded quite bad, & the guy decided to sell it instead of repairing it. it fit into a sholder holster I used to own & I would walk around the old shooting range it was fun. & several cops looked at it & measured it, & were ticked how short, & legal it was. I had a round in chamber when it was carried, so it technically chambered it when you closed it.

Randy

oneounceload
December 3, 2010, 10:10 AM
if a company were to make a short-barreled shotgun, like the Mad Max shotgun for example, would it be legal without the tax?

Something like the Serbu Shorty is classified as an AOW, so the tax is $5.00.

Crosshair
December 3, 2010, 10:49 AM
So, my question is, if a company were to make a short-barreled shotgun, like the Mad Max shotgun for example, would it be legal without the tax?
No for two reasons:

1. Over .50 caliber and "non sporting purpose".
2. Smoothbore barrel.

It would be considered an AOW.

armoredman
December 3, 2010, 12:55 PM
I remember seeing a mare's leg rifle that was legal without the added tax because it came stock from the factory as a short-barreled rifle.


No, it came from the Rossi factory as a PISTOL. You cannot add a stock to that gun without breaking NFA.
A short barreled smoothbore with a shoulder stock is illegal, as is a handgun with a smooth bore. Those are NFA covered, IIRC, and the reason the Judge comes with a rifled barrel and chambered for 45 Colt as well as 410, so to avoid the NFA trap. Otherwise, you might see a 4 shot Judge in 16, 20 or 28 guage for grins and giggles, but none of those gauges has a corresponding caliber of ammunition they could fire, so even with a rifled barrel, they would be non handguns and non shotguns, falling udner AOW from NFA/GCA.
Think of it this way, especially with the new head of ATF, if there is a legal way to trip you up and imprison you, HE WILL DO IT.

Point of clarification, I do not own any NFA firearms, and have not gone through the process, but worked at a few shops that sold NFA items.

jaguarxk120
December 3, 2010, 03:10 PM
Go to www.hatchergun.com/sbs.htm they will build you what you want or sell a short barreled gun.

Note what they sell are all NFA guns.

mr_goodbomb
December 3, 2010, 09:53 PM
So the AOW stamp is $5? What falls under that? I'd really like to get ahold of an old double barrel, exposed hammer or not, "sawed off" style. Not really into the idea of a pump.

Slopemeno
December 3, 2010, 10:31 PM
Back in the late 70's and early 80's there was a 12 gauge SxS called "The Brute" which had 18.5" barrels and a 26" OAL. About as close as you can get to the 'Mad Max" without a tax stamp.

silvercorvette
December 4, 2010, 02:18 AM
Check out the guns on this site, the tax stamp is only $5

http://www.paladinarmory.com/SBSAOW.htm

Crosshair
December 4, 2010, 12:26 PM
So the AOW stamp is $5? What falls under that? I'd really like to get ahold of an old double barrel, exposed hammer or not, "sawed off" style. Not really into the idea of a pump.
An AOW must NEVER have had a stock attached at any time in the past once it left the factory. Thus, only guns that were originally gold with a pistol type stock can become AOW guns.

The reason is that a shotgun with a pistol grip shorter than the 26"/18" rule is considered a smooth-bore handgun. A shotgun that had a full stock on it at any time would be considered a snort barreled shotgun.

Also, to manufacture an AOW is still $200.

Here is my AOW, a converted Kimmel Kamper in 20 gauge.

http://gra.midco.net/5937/GunPhotos/20GaugeAOW.jpg

Shooting with Slugs, I typically load it with buckshot, which doesn't produce the large fireball.
http://gra.midco.net/5937/GunPhotos/MotelGunAOW1.JPG

I call it my "Motel gun" because that is what I use it for. With all the travel I do for work and frequent stays at motels, I need something that is compact and fits in the backpack I use for my clothes as the work pickup often does not have room for something larger. (Lets just say that my boss/company owner is VERY pro-2nd. He badgered me for the longest time to get my Utah so I could carry in the work truck in Minnesota.:)) The gun folds in half and will fit in a regular soft large pistol case.

Best yet, I can take it across state lines without a Form 5320.20 into other states were AOWs are legal. Minnesota, where I do a lot of travel, also bans any non C&R SBS, but allows any AOW. Iowa is the only state I go that I can't take it to, but I only go there when our other tech is sick or on vacation, so I have a heads-up to leave it at home.

silvercorvette
December 5, 2010, 06:59 PM
I don't know if it is Ok to hot link the photo, and although I suspect it is because it would help sell a gun, I am just going to post a link to click on for the photo

http://www.paladinarmory.com/Photos%20for%20PA%20website/SBSAOW1.jpg

I think this is exactly what you are looking for.

clang
December 8, 2010, 12:00 AM
If you just want to have fun, you can buy a black powder replica Howda Pistol. Here is a 20 ga version from Dixie Gun Works:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/popup_image.php?pID=14020