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View Full Version : Mini-14 Ranch Rifle legal in NYC?


Nickel Plated
November 19, 2010, 02:37 AM
Can anyone tell me if a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle is legal to own in NYC with a rifle permit?

I currently live in Brooklyn, NYC and around here to even own a rifle in your home, you must have a permit and each rifle you own must be registered. You must be 21 to apply for a permit. So I will be turning 21 in January :D and decided I will get me a rifle for my B-Day (well after my B-Day considering how long this process takes)

However NYC's "Assault Weapons" ban is causing me some confusion.

Here is the exact text quoted straight off the Rifle/Shotgun Permit Application:



THE FOLLOWING IS THE DEFINITION OF AN ASSAULT WEAPON

(a) Any semiautomatic centerfire or rimfire rifle or semiautomatic shotgun which has one or more of the
following features:
1. Folding or telescoping stock or no stock.
2. Pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
3. Bayonet mount.
4. Flash Suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor.
5. Barrel Shroud.
6. Grenade launcher.
7. Modifications of such features, or other features determined by rule of the Police Commissioner to
be particularly suitable for military and not sporting purposes. In addition, the Police Commissioner
may, in such rules, designate specific semiautomatic centerfire or rimfire rifles or semiautomatic
shotguns, identified by make, model and/or manufacturer’s name, as within the definition of assault
weapon, if the Police Commissioner determines that such weapons are particularly suitable for
military and not sporting purposes.
(b) Any shotguns with a revolving cylinder magazine.
(c) Any part, or combination of parts, designed or intended to readily convert a rifle or shotgun into an
assault weapon.

EXAMPLES OF ASSAULT WEAPONS THAT ARE BANNED

ALL AK-47s & All AR-15s
Armalite AR-180
Australian LIAIA & 223SAC
Beretta AR-70, BM-59
Beretta Light 50, 82AL
Calico M-900, M-100
Daewoo Max 1 & 2
DMAX C90, C100, C450
Dragunov Sniper Rifle
Encom, MK-1V
Fabrique FN/FAL, LAR, FNC
Fal Type 1-2-4
Famas Maas-223
Feather AT-9 & AT-22
Federal Eng. Corp XC 220,450, 900 A.C.
Franchi Law Spas 12
Goncz High Tech Carbine
Heckler & Koch 91, 93, 94
Israeli – All UZIs
Iver Johnson PM 30P
Norinco NMD86 Sniper Rifle
Polytech Ind. M-14s
PSG-1 rifles G3, SA
Ruger Mini 14/5F
SIG 57 AMT & PE-57, BM-59
SIG 550, 551 S.P.
Springfield BM-59, SAR 48&58 &3, M-1A
Sterling MK-6
Steyr Daimler Pusch AUG-SA
Valmet Corp. M-76, 78 SA
Weaver Arms Corp. Nighthawk



Now although the Mini-14 doesn't have any of the scary "shoulder things that go up", it is specifically mentioned on the list (highlighted in red by me).
However from my reading on the web, the "Mini-14/5F" specifically specifies the folding stock model, and the fixed stock Ranch Rifles are exempt. :confused:

Anyone can help me out here? Since AK-47s and AR-15s are banned, the Mini-14 is really the only other rifle I particularly care about having. Exept for maybe a few full power bolt actions like a Mosin but that's not a good first rifle. If I can't have a Mini, AK, or AR then I can't see any point of bothering with the permit. :(

egor20
November 19, 2010, 02:44 AM
I would imagine that the Mini-14 Ranch rifle should do the the trick

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/models.html

But I would ask your local LEOs first

Hope this helps :)

rickyrick
November 19, 2010, 10:35 AM
doesn't sound like the ranch configuration of the the mini14 meets that definition...

AlexI
November 19, 2010, 10:56 AM
As a fellow gun owner from Brooklyn, I have a better suggestion for you than talking to LEOs - just call any FFL in the city and ask them if they can order a particular rifle model for you. They know exactly what can be registered, because they have to fill out and send the registration form when selling you a rifle, and they would get in trouble for selling a verbotten kind of rifle.

Alex.

Nickel Plated
November 19, 2010, 11:01 AM
Yea, I might just have to give the Licensing Division a call and see what they say. Although I can't see them being very straight-forward with me since they are the ones in charge of this mess.

It's a shame really. I love NYC. All the other issues, the cost of living, the corrupt government, the mountain of paperwork needed to do ANYTHING could be overlooked by me if it weren't for just this one issue. The fact that some guns are outright banned based solely on looks is just a deal-breaker. Lucky me my fiance already agreed that we will be moving once we get our lives more in order.

But so far the Ranch Rifle is looking good.

bamaranger
November 22, 2010, 02:07 AM
Item #5

What exactly, is a barrel shroud?

Note too, that due to bayonet lugs on the gas cylinder, one could likely not own an M1 Garand. But it might be possible to own an M1 carbine not so equipped, like the early models.

And interestingly that the Gestapo , I mean the Police Commissioner, can arbitrarily decide if they like your rifle or not.

And no mention of mag capacity or detachable mags.

Rattlehead
November 22, 2010, 06:33 AM
Bamaranger - my understanding is that a barrel shroud encircles but does not touch the barrel. The net effect is that you have a surface that is relatively cool to the touch that a shooter may grasp onto to stabilize the firearm (as opposed to grabbing the barrel directly, and burning the hell out of his/her hand).

darkgael
November 22, 2010, 07:47 AM
The Mini 14 is not going to work for you. By all means, call an FFL but I'll be real surprised if you get a "yes".

Pete

dalegribble
November 22, 2010, 08:24 AM
get yourself a cowboy assault rifle. something like a winchester or marlin lever rifle. many calibers available from 357, 44, 45, 30/30 ever 45/70. the rifle that won the west can still win you some peace of mind.

tenusdad
November 22, 2010, 07:36 PM
dalegribble is right - I would not feel poorly armed with a good 44 or 357 lever action rifle with about 10 rounds or so. A 30-30 is powerful anti personnel equipment. The lever guns were the assualt guns of the day and they still work. Can you guys have a shotgun in NY? When they take my semi I'll go to a lever or pump, when they take my lever, I'll go to a muzzel loader, crossbow, or sword or bat. Beats foul language for defense.

chris in va
November 22, 2010, 08:32 PM
Yeah, don't go ask the LEO's. I made the mistake of talking with a Captain in Jersey City about transferring an old J-frame to VA, and directly told me "civilians have no business owning handguns". I'm not making this up.

Didn't matter all my training classes, CCW permit, background check, military service ad nauseum. He plainly didn't care.

I can agree that NYC is a nice place to be.

It is, and I like to visit a couple times a year. Not a place I could live though.

darkgael
November 22, 2010, 09:25 PM
It is, and I like to visit a couple times a year. Not a place I could live though.
True...city life is not for everyone.
Want a Mini 14 in NYC and you are sh*t out of luck. But, yes, you can have that semi-auto SG. Go figure.
It is not impossible to own firearms; it is expensive (so far). My renewed pistol permit came today and it cost me $340 for three years. That's the bad part.
The good part is that I spent the afternoon at a pistol range that is only a two minute walk from my home. How many folk can do that (yeah, I know....you can shoot in your backyard - as can I at my home in PA); it ain't bad for the big city. I shoot Trap regularly every Wednesday - gotta drive to Staten Island for that, though. So....there are shooting opportunities in the Big Apple. Now....if we could just get rid of Charlie Schumer.
Pete

Nickel Plated
November 22, 2010, 09:58 PM
As I posted, it will be a while before I can move out of the city, maybe 3-4 years. However we are thinking someplace warm so most likely south. She's thinking Florida which I don't mind. Texas and Arizona are on my list too. But either way, I think just running away is always a bad idea. If we all did that when they passed some gun laws, sooner or later we would have nowhere left to run to.

Just to point out I will not be keeping this as a home defense rifle for several reasons:

1) I live in a duplex with fairly thin walls with neighbors on ALL sides. Popping off .223s in my house is just asking to be sued by everybody on the block.

2) It's my parents house and they won't approve of me keep it locked and loaded due to reason 1.

3) As far as I read the rifles have to be stored locked and unloaded. Though I don't give too much of a damn about that TBH.

Basically the costs (I WILL be sued and I WILL go to jail even if I shot Osama Bin Laden himself in self-defense) far outweigh the benefits.

So this Mini will mostly be a range toy. I read some forum accounts about people in the five boroughs having registered Ranch Rifles in the past, I believe even after the AWB passed. But I will call an FFL and the Licensing Division tomorrow to be sure. If not then the Marlin 336 in 30-30 looks like a fun plinking gun. Generally i read that the rifle/shotgun permits are relatively easy to get. Time consuming, but as long as you meet the requirements, they don't generally just deny them for no reason like with CCWs. Especially if it's just a range permit. Although they might take my age as a good reason to deny one.

On a side note, my dad's co-worker has some pistols, I should ask how he went about getting those. Though I have a strong hunch they aren't registered.

Edit: I don't think the thing on the Mini really counts as a barrel shroud since it doesn't really encircle the whole barrel. And I can swap it for a wooden handguard anyway which I prefer. Also last i heard the mag cap is 5 for rifles and shotguns. Lucky Ruger ships Minis with 5rd mags as an option.

darkgael
November 23, 2010, 05:52 AM
my dad's co-worker has some pistols, I should ask how he went about getting those
I have pistols.
You go down to Police Plaza, to the pistol section (for rifles and shotguns, ya gotta go to the office on Queens Blvd.). At the pistol section you tell them that you want to apply for a residence permit - not a carry; they will give you the paper work.
(You can do this paperwork part online. Here is the link: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/HandGunLicenseApplicationFormsComplete.pdf)

You take it home, read through it, fill it out, get your money in order, go back, get finger printed, submit everything, pay........and then you wait. If you have not had any run-ins with the law, you will get a permit. It will come in the mail with a purchase order. You must at that point purchase a pistol. Then you bring it in and register it. The whole process can take six months.
Pete

Nickel Plated
November 23, 2010, 03:14 PM
Good news, just went down to a FFL not far from me and he said that the fixed stock Ranch Rifle is in fact legal, but only with 5rd mags. He even had a few on display. But he couldn't even let me hold one until I get my license :(.

Although when calling the Licensing Division and asking about it, the lady on the phone immediately said "no, illegal" as soon as the words Mini-14 left my mouth. TBH I don't think she really knew the difference between a /5F Mini and a Ranch Rifle, all she knows is I said "Mini-14" and in the list it says "Mini-14", that's as far as she cares to know.

I doubt the store would have 3 illegal rifles sitting on their shelves if they weren't allowed to even sell them. So I believe I'm good to go.

darkgael
November 23, 2010, 09:29 PM
So I believe I'm good to go.
I hope that it works out for you.
As for being "good to go".....remember....you have to submit the paperwork to that woman who said "no, illegal." Do you think that she'll change her tune by then?
Pete

darkgael
November 24, 2010, 07:29 AM
while honest NYC residents may take 6 months each.

And that is for a residence permit.
CCW? Forget it.

Pete

Nickel Plated
November 24, 2010, 03:57 PM
As for being "good to go".....remember....you have to submit the paperwork to that woman who said "no, illegal." Do you think that she'll change her tune by then?


According to what I overheard from the dealer, if I buy from them, or any FFL in the city, they do the registration paperwork for the rifle not me. I just do the paperwork to get myself licensed. So if he's done it before, I'm sure he can do it again. I'm sure that lady isn't the only one that works there.

Mokumbear
November 24, 2010, 04:57 PM
I grew up in the Northeastern US but now live about 1000 miles away.

Since I still have a relative in NYC, I checked out their CCW laws.
Your CCW license from any other part of NY State is not valid in NYC.
You have to prove a need (good luck!).

While Florida is not Arizona, if you can operate a firearm and keep yourself
out of trouble, you're good. This is the way I think it should be.

Why would you deprive someone with no history of criminal or violent activity the ability to protect themselves?

Mark Chapman and David Berkowitz, two real examples of "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".

darkgael
November 24, 2010, 08:08 PM
Quote:
As for being "good to go".....remember....you have to submit the paperwork to that woman who said "no, illegal." Do you think that she'll change her tune by then?
According to what I overheard from the dealer, if I buy from them, or any FFL in the city, they do the registration paperwork for the rifle not me. I just do the paperwork to get myself licensed. So if he's done it before, I'm sure he can do it again. I'm sure that lady isn't the only one that works there.

That's a great service. Hope it goes smoothly.
Pete

Nickel Plated
November 24, 2010, 09:11 PM
Now is the agonizing wait until January when I can apply. Then more agonizing wait until my permit gets approved.

Atleast my girlfriend offered to cover the cost of the permit and some of the rifle as a B-Day present for me. I got a keeper :D

AHZARIT
May 11, 2011, 03:03 PM
Hey, did you ever get to register a Mini-14 in NYC? I'm a NYC resident as well and was thinking about Mini-14, just want to make sure I wont have a problem registering it.

Art Eatman
May 12, 2011, 07:41 AM
AHZARIT, better to ask via PM than to resurrect a dead thread.