PDA

View Full Version : Luger fever


IXLR8
November 8, 2010, 05:59 PM
I am a newby to to C&R weapons. I could use some of the expert knowledge on here if you can help.

Is the Luger P-08 a C&R weapon?

If I wanted to buy one that shoots 9mm Luger ammo, what should I look for?
I see 2 types of ammo (maybe more), is one better than the other?

What should I watch out for, the problem guns?

What is a desirable model, and what is the price range for it?

I would like to be able to shoot it occasionally and not deminish the value too much, is this possible?

Is there a "Luger bible" that gives good information?

Thanks in advance for your input!

jonnyc
November 8, 2010, 07:24 PM
You have many questions there, Grasshopper. Lugers are a real specialty area and without the right info you will be ******* away lots of money. Spend some time here ( http://www.lugerforum.com ) and educate yourself before making any decisions.

Scorch
November 8, 2010, 07:33 PM
On the BATFE website: C&R firearms list
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf
Page 23
Luger, Model 1902 Cartridge Counter, Mauser commercial, semiautomatic pistol, cal. 9mm, mfd.
1982.
Luger, pistol, all models and variations mfd. prior to 1946.
Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 70 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole,
Kelsoreich Russiand, commemorative, cal. 9mm.
Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 76 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, 1900-1975, commemorative, cal. 7.65mm.
Luger, Mauser commercial manufacture, semiautomatic pistol, 75 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole,
Konigreich Bulgarian, commemorative, caliber 7.65mm.
Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss
pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to
1978.
Desirable: 1912 Artillery model (wooden shoulderstock holster, barrel with forearm attached)
Desirable: Naval model
Desirable: Krieghoff presentation model
Desirable: Engraved Mauser commercial Luger with ivory grips

James K
November 9, 2010, 02:33 AM
Under the fifty year rule, all Lugers except the ones made by Mauser in the 1970s fall under the C&R category. That means all Lugers from the earliest ones through the end of WWII. The term "P.08" was the German army designation for the Luger, which was adopted in 1908. Strictly speaking, it applies only to German army pistols, not to commercial pistols or those adopted by other nations.

Rare experimentals aside, original Lugers were made in only two calibers, 7.65 Parabellum or .30 Luger, and 9mm Parabellum or 9mm Luger. Again with rare exceptions, all German military Lugers were in 9mm. .30 Luger is loaded in the U.S., but in only one bullet type and load. But due to the popularity of the 9mm, many types and brands of ammo are available; not all are suitable for Lugers, but most full metal jacketed ammo will feed and function OK.

Prices can range from $600 or so for a mixed parts gun with considerable wear to many thousands for rare models. You should count on spending about $1200-1500 for a good condition WWII model.

If the gun already has some wear and has seen use, firing it a moderate amount will not diminish the value to any extent.

There are a number of books on the Luger, mostly written for the collector. There is actually not much on the Luger as a gun or on firing and maintenance.

Because the Luger tends to be ammunition sensitive and a bit finicky, I would recommend against its use as a defense weapon.

Jim

Scorch
November 9, 2010, 11:56 AM
Under the fifty year rule, all Lugers except the ones made by Mauser in the 1970s fall under the C&R category.
Jim-
I was actually surprised to find the 1970s-1980s commercial manufactured Lugers in the C&R list, quoted above.

James K
November 9, 2010, 12:40 PM
Those guns are there because someone requested they be put there, and BATFE agreed. With the exception of the 50-year rule, BATFE has never added anything to that C&R list on their own, only at someone's request.

Jim

IXLR8
November 9, 2010, 05:50 PM
Thanks for all of your help!

I knew this would take a bit of digging to find the jewels in a sea of compromises. It appears that education is a very important in your selection process. Judging by the Gunbroker ads, many have been stung by undesirable models.

It looks like I have some lurking ahead of me in the Luger forums...

It appeared that $1500 would get me in the game. This is more of long term hold investment for me, but I still would like to shoot it occasionally.

Ronbo1
November 9, 2010, 06:34 PM
Link to some for sale that might run high in price but gives you an idea


http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com

Drachenstein
November 9, 2010, 08:22 PM
They're beautiful pistols, I own several. Stick to 115 gr white box winchesters when shooting. Luger forum is a great place to learn do's and don'ts. If not collecting they're not all that expensive when you consider the workmanship you're getting. Have fun - enjoy:D

James K
November 9, 2010, 08:50 PM
Great site, Ronbo. Of course any time guns are offered as "investments" you can bet the price will be high. Still a lot of info there and from a quick look it appears to be accurate.

Jim

mapsjanhere
November 9, 2010, 09:58 PM
Thanks for the link to the lugerforums; I asked a question how to fix my 08 in the smithy forum here with no replies, and guess what, the first sticky in the luger repair forum answered the question.

jonnyc
November 9, 2010, 10:44 PM
Spend a bit of time digging around there and you will do fine with $1500. If for an investment, you definitely want all-matching and original finish. WWI and commercial guns are usually cheaper than examples from WWII.

IXLR8
November 19, 2010, 06:29 PM
I remember back in the 60's as a child when plastic guns were actually children's toys. The luger always had the unique action even in the toy version. Back then WWII was only 20 years before, really about like Desert Shield is to us now.

Toy guns are no longer an accepted toy to give a child. But I am no longer a child. The German ingenuity of the Luger action is still fascinating. Owning a little piece of history will satisfy my imagination of what it was like to actually hold and shoot one of the most interesting weapons of the first half of the 20th century.

Thanks for all of the input! Now comes the hard part, finding just the right one. It just seems more satisfying than shooting a plastic pistol like a Glock, but I have one of those too.

James K
November 19, 2010, 11:00 PM
If you are in an area that has gun shows, that is the first place to check for Lugers. You will have to know enough to avoid the lies and BS and it is best to avoid the big dealers with 50 or 100 Lugers. Look at the other tables and you will often find a decent Luger for a good price. At a recent large show, I saw one rather ordinary Luger on a big dealer's table for $1800; at a table several aisles away, there was a nearly identical Luger, same maker, same era, same condition, for $1100.

Jim

Winchester_73
November 23, 2010, 04:54 PM
Desirable: 1912 Artillery model (wooden shoulderstock holster, barrel with forearm attached)

The artillery model was first produced in 1914 and it does not have a forearm attached but does have a detachable shoulder stock. The luger with the forearm attached is the carbine model.

Desirable: Krieghoff presentation model
Desirable: Engraved Mauser commercial Luger with ivory grips

These are simply unrealistic finds, esp for the beginner. Unless you have a horseshoe up your @ss, forget it. Any Kreighoff is a good luger and there are many other rare variations than just special presentation pieces.

Is there a "Luger bible" that gives good information?

I would say Lugers at Random is your book. I myself do not own it but its known as THE luger book. I own the standard catalog of lugers which I think is *ok*. There is decent coverage in the standard catalog of military firearms as well. The Jan Still books were and probably still are the best and are priced as such.

Luger collecting is a field worth reading and researching BEFORE purchasing. Its easy to be had on a luger purchase and with the $$$ and desireability, there are many dishonest individuals looking to fool someone.

gyvel
November 24, 2010, 03:24 AM
On the other hand, if you are just looking for a "Luger" to shoot, there are plenty of mismatched guns out there that can be had for reasonable prices.

P5 Guy
November 25, 2010, 10:13 PM
There are all kinds of Lugers. Keep a tight grip on your wallet $3-4k for collector $700 to $1k for shooters.

Winchester_73
November 27, 2010, 11:01 PM
Nice lugers P5 guy. :eek:

P5 Guy
December 2, 2010, 01:52 PM
Thanks Winchester