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View Full Version : Actually reading the lists of Curios and Relics


Chris_B
November 3, 2010, 08:23 PM
I wanted some light reading :rolleyes:

So I was looking at the things the BATFE thoughtfully sends me

Reading the lists of curio and relics is a very interesting thing

37mm deck cannon... Pack howitzer but only from 1941... Anyone know where I can score a nazi belt buckle gun? I especially like the specific serial number stuff

This publication is almost a catalog of things I want

SfcMac
November 3, 2010, 09:14 PM
Chris as you are finding our there is quite a list of weapons that we C&Rs are permitted to own. Of course all have to fit in to the specifications of the GCA.
Any fully automatic must be modified to fire Semiauto only, and all the really big stuff must be rendered inert. In other words can't be fired. What I like is the ability to buy across state lines, and transport the gun home. But isn't it interesting what we can own with this license?

James K
November 3, 2010, 10:28 PM
Hi, SfcMac,

I don't know where you are getting your info but you are wrong on auto weapons and on "big stuff".

Many auto weapons are C&R items (WWII STENs, TSMGs, BARs, etc., etc.) and can be owned by a C&R licensee (or anyone else with a clean record) under federal law as long as registered with BATFE and transferred in accordance witht the law; they do not need to be made semi-auto to be in the C&R category. Further, an unregisterd auto weapon cannot be made legal by making it semi auto, and making a registered auto weapon into a semi-auto would be stupid beyond belief.

The "big stuff" would probably fall under the destructive device category, which is highly restrictive. Again, such devices can be owned by anyone who complies with the law, not just a C&R licensee. Like yachts, if you have to ask "how much", you can't afford it.

Jim

BlueTrain
November 4, 2010, 06:17 AM
I have seen working small artillery pieces that were presumably available for sale because they eventually did all get sold.

Those of you in the Northern Virginia area probably are familiar with the old Hunter's Haven/Potomac Arms formerly located at Zero Prince Street in Alexandria. That has to be the most unique street adress ever. They had for ages a half-dozen artillery pieces sitting around their property and at least one still had a working breech. It was a WWII German 75mm infantry howitizer. They also had a couple of Italian 47mm anti-tank guns and a couple of French 25mm anti-tank guns. Don't laugh. The Bradley has a 25mm gun, I think. The French gun had the date and factory name in beautiful engraved script and I thought it would have made an interesting rubbing. The date was about a month before the invasion of France in 1940. The next time I went back, they were all gone. Sold.

Zero Prince street was once out in the Potomac River and even now when the wind is from the east, the tide is up and it has been raining, it floods. So none of those little artillery pieces were in very good shape. I'm sure the recoil mechanisms were unworkable and the tires were all rotted. But I'd sure loved to have had that howitizer. The elevating machanism still worked.

I wonder if you can get parts from Numrich Arms?

abelacres
November 4, 2010, 06:30 AM
Found one! Only $14,950.00!
http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/1211SSBelt.htm

SfcMac
November 4, 2010, 11:56 AM
Thanks Jim I guess I'll have to go back and reread some of the bulletins and regulations Guess that's what is called being ill informed I've had my C&R 3 1/2
years just started my 1st renewal Still learning Shame on me This gives me time to reflect A friend of mine and fellow Vet ( he and I belong to the same Sportsman club) was looking at my M 1917 I offered it to him in trade for either his Garand or M1 Carbine. He would rather give away his AK47 I think it is either Rumainian or North Korean The NK is probably C&R . What do you think? Paul M

James K
November 4, 2010, 02:54 PM
I made sure of that point when I sold my auto weapons. All the buyers were 03 license holders, and in the general area, so I just took the stuff to them once the Form 4's came back approved. The approved Form 4 itself is authority to ship or take across state lines. No SOT (Class III) dealer was involved in any of the sales.

Jim

SfcMac
November 4, 2010, 04:29 PM
Hi Jim My friend is PD by profession, and has some great connections. He is also a C&R When we talked he mentioned that even as a New Yorker I have no worries about owning the AK47. He has several,but is really hesitant about letting go of his garand or Carbine. So when we have the meeting next week he is going to bring one down to let me look at it. The 1917 is a mixmatch in good condition, but she tops out at about $500, so it would be a fair trade.

James K
November 4, 2010, 09:34 PM
A point on C&R items. Before the 50 year rule was established (and that was done by the BATFE on their own authority, which shows they are not as anti-gun as some folks think), BATFE responded to individual specific requests. So if a collector had a gun or a couple of guns he wanted designated C&R and gave the serial numbers, he got his designation by serial number. They knew very well that the designation should be applied to a lot of similar guns, but their view was that they responded to the collector. That is why many of those early requests specify a serial number, and not just all guns of a type.

Jim

SfcMac
November 5, 2010, 11:01 AM
Jim The BATFE isn't all that bad They are at the beckoned whim of the gun haters, and being a federal agency have to obey orders. I know a couple of them personally, including the young woman that oversees my C&R. I was considering becoming a #01FFL and she advised me against it Putting it in her words my 03FFL is probably the best since the C&R is really not in the spot light.The dealers,importers, manufacturers are under constant scrutiny My friend told me that right now the importers are being watched carefully with this nonsense about those Korean M1s. Realistically it comes down to this obey the law and we won't have problems.

gyvel
November 6, 2010, 07:39 AM
I offered it to him in trade for either his Garand or M1 Carbine. He would rather give away his AK47 I think it is either Rumainian or North Korean The NK is probably C&R . What do you think? Paul M

If his AK is North Korean, I would say he has a really contraband item there and I'm betting it's NOT a registered weapon, as all North Korean AK 47s are select fire. There may be one or two in the US that are transferable, but I'm putting my money on the fact that his isn't one of them. This could result in someone going away for about ten years. I wouldn't get within a hundred miles of it.

On the other hand, if it is a Rumanian as you mentioned, then it is just one of a myriad of recent imports which I don't believe are C&R. J&G sells them for around $400.00 or so.

While a 1917 isn't quite the equal in value to a decent Garand or carbine, I would say it's worth more than a Rumanian AK.

SfcMac
November 6, 2010, 03:45 PM
Gyvel Your post prompted me to contact him I was wrong I misunderstood One of the AKs is Romainian, but the other is Norinco.And that one is Chinese. I'm the one that should have known better This country will not allow M1s belonging to us in from South Korea.There is no way they will allow anything from the Peoples Republic of North Korea into this country.The Norinco does not come to the supposed value of the M1917 either. Now I know how the Ancient Mariner felt I'm saddled with an albatros that I don't want, and it seems no else wants. Well we'll wait and see what my friend has to say. Perhaps there may be a something good down the road Thanks Gyvel

gyvel
November 7, 2010, 12:41 AM
Sfc Mac, the 1917 is a veteran of both world wars. If I recall correctly, Sgt. Alvin York carried a 1917 in WW I, and my father told me he trained with a 1917 in WW II.

I wouldn't exactly consider it an albatross. The value of the 1917s have been steadily rising.

Furthermore, although a bit clunky, they are an incredibly strong action and pretty good shooters.

SfcMac
November 8, 2010, 05:56 PM
Gyvel You're not telling me anything I don't already know. I'm well aware of the lineage of the M1917, the M1903, and the M1 Garand I myself carried the Garand M1 during my first years in the Army. As a matter of fact that first part of my career saw the M14 as well as the original M16. When I returned to service in 1982 the M16A2 was already in service. Yes the M1917 is a strong shooter and believe it or not is one of the two most accurate rifles I have. The other being the Lee Enfield MK1 303. Presently it is the only American rifle I have. Realistically I am interested in European/Eastern European weapons, and I am not one of those who believes that the Garand, M14 M16 are the be all of any Milsurp Collection. More to the point my next rifle will be a semiauto from Europe. I'm not sour grapes Gyvel I'm being realistic. The one American weapon I really would like to have is the Winchester trench gun. I keep my collection small my friend, and I am very discerning what is really important to me. Yes in some way this rifle remains an albatros Why do I say this? Can you trade it even up for any of the rifles I mentioned? Absolutely not. Can you even trade it for the Springfield 03? Again No You cannot. Can I trade it for the K98,K31, or any of the Mausers? Yes I can Can I trade it for The Krag, or Trap door? Maybe. right now I can trade it for the Sks from a respected Internet dealer Why? He considers that m1917 worth more than That SKS and he is right. Tell me Gyvel What do you consider the M1917 worth? I'll tell you this she is mixed, but in great condition

gyvel
November 11, 2010, 03:21 AM
If "great" condition means near NRA excellent with a nice shiny bore, then your gun is easily worth around $500.00 or so. (Somewhat less if it is a WW II repark/reissue.) I traded one of my lesser examples a couple of years a go for a V.C. Schilling Mauser commercial sporter in 6.5x55.

The fact that it is "mixed" can be corrected. There are enough parts out there to restore it to "original" condition.

All of this assumes that the stock hasn't been sanded/refinished, no holes for scope mounts have been drilled into it or the metal hasn't been refinished other than Parkerized.

SfcMac
November 11, 2010, 10:21 AM
Gyvel I tend to think that this rifle saw action in Both wars The Wood is original, the bore is somewhat dark but strong, and you're right she is a strong shooter The metal is 65% original bluing remaining She is 75% Eddystone with a Remington Receiver and numerous mixed small parts. Someone in my Hunting club has expressed an interest in it He is a Cop and like myself C&R I beat some clown two weeks ago at the local range with it He had an M1 Carbine but I don't think he could hit the broad side of a barn standing next to it He was another one of these guys that never saw time in our Armed Forces, but owned the rifle because Grandpa carried it. The M1917 is very accurate but then I'm an excellent shot,and always have been I'm on the fence as to whether or not I'll get rid of her

gyvel
November 12, 2010, 06:25 AM
The M1917 is very accurate but then I'm an excellent shot,and always have been I'm on the fence as to whether or not I'll get rid of her

Maybe this will help: Does it eat??:D

SfcMac
November 12, 2010, 11:26 AM
When it starts doing that I'll sign myself in if you know what I mean
Have a Happy :D:D