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TomADC
October 17, 2010, 07:58 PM
My dad left me a pair of Mauser 1934 handguns one in 32 acp the other in 25 acp are these considered curios? etc.
If so can they be shipped via UPS person to person or do they have to go through a FFL dealer?

James K
October 17, 2010, 08:21 PM
Yes; neither has been made since 1938 and any gun older than 50 years is automatically a Curio and Relic. They can be shipped interstate to a holder of a Curio and Relic Federal Firearms License. Shipment to any non-licensee must go through a FFL dealer.

(There is often confusion between a C&R gun and an antique. An antique gun is one made in or before 1898 and some replicas. An antique is a non-gun, like a table lamp. But a Curio and Relic is still a modern firearm except for transfers to or dealings between C&R License holders.)

Jim

TomADC
October 17, 2010, 08:45 PM
Jim, thanks for the help!

carguychris
October 17, 2010, 10:46 PM
If so can they be shipped via UPS person to person or do they have to go through a FFL dealer?
I believe Jim answered the curio/FFL half of the question but not the UPS half. :)

TomADC, your profile does not reveal where you live. If your state laws allow face-to-face sales between nonlicensees, you may ship the gun(s) via UPS to a resident of your own state. I personally would not ship a gun to someone I have never met because of uncertainty of verifying the ID (and therefore the age) of someone I have never personally seen, but to each his/her own.

UPS requires all handguns to be shipped Next Day Air regardless of the distance involved. They also require all handgun shipments to be dropped off in person at a company-operated hub, NOT at a drop box or strip-center "UPS Store" (these are actually franchises and are not company-owned). This is a matter of company policy, not state or federal law. You may use the slightly less expensive "Next Day Air Saver" service that does not guarantee AM delivery, but the shipment will still generally cost you $35-$60, not to mention the potential hassle of traveling to a company-operated hub. It may be less expensive and more convenient to have your friendly neighborhood FFL dealer ship it in a USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box, which is illegal for nonlicensees (and C&R-licensed collectors!) to use, but could be less expensive even after the FFL's transfer fee is added.

Some(!) FFL dealers will not accept shipments from unfamiliar nonlicensees. This is not a matter of state or federal law either; it's a private business decision to avoid potential legal hassles if the gun turns out to be stolen or illegally modified. Make sure you check before you ship.

Tamara
October 18, 2010, 06:50 AM
Some(!) FFL dealers will not accept shipments from unfamiliar nonlicensees. This is not a matter of state or federal law either; it's a private business decision to avoid potential legal hassles if the gun turns out to be stolen or illegally modified. Make sure you check before you ship.

Yes.

There's also the incredible sinking feeling that comes from opening a box that contains a handgun, and there's no FFL inside, no photocopy of a D/L, nothing, zip, nada, to indicate from whence it came except the return address on the outside of the box.

And, surprisingly, the BATFEIEIO won't let me book the gun in as being from "John Smith, c/o The UPS Store, 123 Commerce Drive Suite A, Anytown, NY 12345." :o

TomADC
October 18, 2010, 08:43 AM
I should have been a little more clear, Guns are in Michigan and I'm in CA. Want them shipped to me, no sales.

carguychris
October 18, 2010, 10:55 AM
I should have been a little more clear, Guns are in Michigan and I'm in CA. Want them shipped to me, no sales.
OK, this is a whole 'nother topic unto itself. :) In fact, this is wandering into "Law & Civil Rights" subforum territory, but I'll go ahead and answer the question.

Under 27 CFR ยง 478.29(a), it is legal for a nonlicensee to have an inherited firearm transported into his/her state of residence without an FFL transfer, and it is therefore legal to send them via UPS in a person-to-person shipment, but there are two catches:
It must be legal for the recipient to own the firearm(s) under state law. I am blissfully unfamiliar with CA law and must plead ignorance as to whether your dad's Mausers are legal for you to own in CA.
The recipient must have specifically inherited the firearms his or herself, NOT received them from an executor or through some deal with other family members. (This was recently explained in a thread in L&CR.) In other words, the bequest must take the form of "my son Robert gets my Mauser M1934 serial number xxx..." or "my daughter Julie gets the entire contents of my home at such-and-such address..." (which includes the firearms). OTOH if Julie inherits the contents of the house but she doesn't like guns and decides to give them to Robert, who lives in another state, he must do an FFL transfer to receive them because they legally belong to Julie. The bequest was to her, NOT to him.

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;) This is not official legal advice. Caveat emptor. :cool:

mavracer
October 18, 2010, 11:12 AM
I should have been a little more clear, Guns are in Michigan and I'm in CA. Want them shipped to me, no sales.
Thank's for clearing that up, While I have little to add to the question at hand. It was upsetting to think you would want to sell your fathers guns.
I'm very glad to see I jumped to the wrong conclusion.:D

Scorch
October 18, 2010, 11:30 AM
Since you are dealing with CA firearms laws, get a full description of the firearms and discuss it with someone who knows the laws before having them shipped to you. Technically, they are your firearms, but CA has decided which firearms are permissible in that state, so check with someone who knows.

emcon5
October 18, 2010, 11:39 AM
You probably should ask that question here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=71

There are some hurdles because they are pistols and you are in California.

I am not sure of the answer to the shipping question, but I believe you can bring them back with you, you just need to fill out a form. I believe if they are shipped they will need to go through an (01) FFL.

Some info on intra family transfers and a link to the form here:
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#20

TomADC
October 18, 2010, 12:22 PM
They sure don't make it easy, think I'll drive down to the local BATF and see what they say, may be more trouble then it worth, these are two I would never shoot or even own ammo for, if they hadn't been my dad's I wouldn't even check on them.

Goatwhiskers
October 18, 2010, 12:40 PM
FWIW, it is illegal to ship any handgun via USPS. Kinda limits your choices. This is per postal regs, not ATF. Goatwhiskers the Elder

jtb1967
October 18, 2010, 01:06 PM
It's only against USPS rules for an individual to ship handguns. FFL's can ship handguns through the postal service. It may be worth slipping a friendly FFL a couple bucks to save the expensive priority overnight charges from UPS and Fed Ex.

emcon5
October 18, 2010, 02:23 PM
They sure don't make it easy, think I'll drive down to the local BATF and see what they say, may be more trouble then it worth, these are two I would never shoot or even own ammo for, if they hadn't been my dad's I wouldn't even check on them.

It isn't just a BATF thing, it is a CA DOJ thing, and I expect if you called them 3 times, you would get 3 different answers.

James K
October 18, 2010, 08:23 PM
Who has the guns now? Another member of the family? If you don't especially want the guns, you can send a notarized letter to whomever, in MI, has the guns, authorizing him/her to sell the guns on your behalf and send you the money. A quick sale to a dealer won't get full value, but will get rid of a headache.

Alternatively, contact a CA dealer and ask him to send a copy of his FFL to the person who has the guns. With that, they can ship the guns to that dealer by UPS or have an MI dealer ship USPS (this is usually cheaper than UPS but the shipping dealer will charge a fee). In any case the receiving dealer will charge a fee for the paperwork in CA. AFAIK not even CA bans such old guns, but the whole CA system was invented by insane legislators and is enforced by even more insane police, all scared to death of those awful Mexicans gettng guns.

Jim