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View Full Version : Help with Mauser identification please.


dreverlast
October 11, 2010, 03:19 PM
Here are some pics of my Mauser I believe to be a 1941 Russian capture. Any help with the markings is greatly appreciated as my main confusion is the straight bolt handle (versus most I see are turned down). I will post more pics.

dreverlast
October 11, 2010, 03:25 PM
Here are some more pics of my Mauser. Thank you to all who help.

dreverlast
October 11, 2010, 03:31 PM
Hopefully these pics will help. If anyone needs explanation of pics, please reply.

dreverlast
October 11, 2010, 03:36 PM
Additional pics.

tater134
October 11, 2010, 04:03 PM
You have a Russian Capture k98 manufactured by Berliner-Luebecker Maschinenfabrik in 1941.The straight bolts are common on Russian capture k98s since the Russians captured mausers from different countries and many still had straight bolts in them.When these rifles were rebuilt by the Russians all the parts were mixed together and then electropenciled to match the rifle they were put on.

dreverlast
October 12, 2010, 04:17 PM
Thanks for the reply. I love this rifle as I see it as a piece of history. Any idea on a value or is its condition in pretty good shape? Does the scribing lessen its value? I take it the butt plate is not original. I'd like to know all I can about this rifle. Thank you once again!

Tamara
October 12, 2010, 04:50 PM
As it stands, being a refinished Russian capture gun is a pretty big strike against any serious collector's value... :o

darwins
October 12, 2010, 05:08 PM
Tamara, you are correct, these rifles may never become $1,000+ valued rifles. However, these rifles made it possible for so many more people to own a piece of history from a time that should never be forgotten. These rifles are interesting in their own right. There can be no question these rifles saw service on the Russian front, which was hellish and devastating for those on both sides of the front. The pristine, $1,000+ rifles may have never been fired in battle while many of these RC rifles clearly have been. In fact, I would be willing to bet even before these rifles were reworked, they likely were already in "non-collectible" condition. Just my thoughts.

tater134
October 12, 2010, 06:00 PM
Thanks for the reply. I love this rifle as I see it as a piece of history. Any idea on a value or is its condition in pretty good shape? Does the scribing lessen its value? I take it the butt plate is not original. I'd like to know all I can about this rifle. Thank you once again!

Russian capture rifles are not and probably wont ever be worth as much as bringback or early import k98s but theyre still great rifles IMO.Just from browsing the auctions quickly it looks like Russian capture k98s are selling between $250-400 depending on markings and condition.Btw what makes you think the buttplate isnt original?It looks okay to me from your photos.

dreverlast
October 12, 2010, 07:02 PM
Its just that I assumed that the buttplate would also have the DUV code and not the BRG code. These are the things I would like to decipher. There is also a number 8092 with an S underneath it as well as all the german warbird markings with different numbers under them. I would like to know what those meant. Some say (its hard to tell on some of them) 250 or 280, some say 214 and the one on the butt plate has a W prefix Waa297 maybe? By the way, this is awesome to me guys!!! Thanks for posting back!

mapsjanhere
October 12, 2010, 08:06 PM
The "warbirds" are WAA accepting marks of the German military, belonging to a certain supervising inspector (so several subordinates used the same stamp at a location). They are mainly useful to identify fakes by comparing documented times an inspector was known to have worked at a specific location; e. g. abc 41 with WAA stamp 123 might be documented, but abc 45 is only found with WAA 234 since the previous inspector has moved on.

Tamara
October 12, 2010, 08:52 PM
Tamara, you are correct, these rifles may never become $1,000+ valued rifles.

Geez, I didn't say it was junk or anything! :o I was just responding to his question about value.

There's no doubt that the RC 98k's are historic artifacts and also plenty good shooters, and an easy way to get into collecting Mausers in these days of the $500+ no-import-mark bringback.

(I have a GI souvenir Mauser that probably came home with some postwar USAREUR occupation troopie, since the bolt and rec are mismatched, and even those have darn near doubled in price over the last ten years. I've considered picking up an RC just to have a good shooter that still has some real history soaked into the wood...)

tater134
October 12, 2010, 10:29 PM
Its just that I assumed that the buttplate would also have the DUV code and not the BRG code. These are the things I would like to decipher

Like I said the Russian took apart all their captured mausers postwar and rebuilt them from the piles of parts so codes and serial numbers were mixed up.Usually only the barrel and receiver are stamped with matching numbers on RC rifles.Also during the war the Germans used many subcontractors to produce parts and each had a different letter code so letter codes may not have matched originally when the rifle left the factory even though the stamped numbers would have.

madcratebuilder
October 13, 2010, 08:07 AM
Mausers in these days of the $500+ no-import-mark bringback.

I hate the term "bring back" Unless you have the original military paper work it's a pre 1968 import with a story.:D

Tamara
October 13, 2010, 08:20 AM
madcratebuilder,

No, I just know (indirectly) the bringer. I know his son would have liked to have believed it was some kind of battlefield pick-up, but his dad wasn't there in time to see combat.

Now my Type 99? That I have a letter for, for an LST crewman, no less. But it's got a defaced mum, and we know what that means: "Sir, they're saying we can each buy one of these Jap rifles for a souvenir; can I bring one back on the boat?" His dad, of course, had spun him some yarn about getting it off a dead soldier, heroically vanquished in combat. I didn't have the heart to disillusion him.

But you're right; absent papers or other proof, never pay a premium for a story. I mean, they're even faking duffle cuts these days... :rolleyes:

dreverlast
October 13, 2010, 03:45 PM
I didnt mean to stir up a nest, I just dig this rifle and its "maybe history". I bought the thing from a co-worker that has 14 others (of various types/makes) for $200 and am not sad in the least for my purchase. I would love to own a special make mauser like the SS sniper or such but to be honest I have 4 kids and feeding/clothing them is costly enough on my pay scale so I have to dream. I really like that you guys are willing to teach me what I have and its very cool when people respond about my rifle. Thanks to each and everyone of you for your comments/help. Keep them coming as I will check back here often to see what else is said.

Tamara
October 13, 2010, 08:41 PM
I didnt mean to stir up a nest...

It's cool; you didn't stir up anything. We like talking about old guns; it's why we're here. :cool:

James K
October 13, 2010, 10:49 PM
Mismatched bolts are fairly common. When those guns were taken from surrendering Germans, it was common to remove the bolts and throw bolt and rifle in different piles. When GIs were rotating back home, the ones who wanted souvenir rifles were trucked to depots where they picked up a rifle, or a rifle and a bolt, depending. Fortunately, German tooling (up to the last days) was good enough that headspace problems were fairly rare.

In spite of war stories, GI's rarely brought home a rifle they had actually captured in combat. No combat soldier could carry two rifles around and no GI was going to toss his M1 rifle so he could bring home a Mauser. (Pistols were different; they were more portable and could be dropped in a pocket or field pack. Some commanders banned possession of souvenir pistols as too many GI's shot themselves or each other playing with the unfamiliar guns.)

Jim

JT-AR-MG42
October 14, 2010, 05:33 AM
dr,

The 'brg' code on the buttplate is attributed to metalware maker H.W. Schmidt out of Sachsen. From serial on the buttplate, it is most likely off of a Gustloff 'bcd' 1941 98k.

Nice clear photos.
I did not see a normal barrel band of markings or barrel guage size mark on the barrel at the receiver step (standard marking in 1941), nor could I see a serial number on the barrel foward of the receiver number.
1941 rifles had the serial number on the barrel. Most of the 'factory' or arsenal rebarrels had the number added at the time of the servicing.

The barrel just has me curious. It is fun to research the RCs, as the commies just slapped 'em back together with the nearest available parts, although I don't recall hearing of them swapping barrels.

I do agree with Jim Keenan on the headspace. Some years back with nothing better to do, I took out an armload of matching 98ks dated from 1934 thru 1945 and deliberately mismatched the bolts.
Firing war 2 ammo through all and then trying the fired cases in other rifles, I soon became bored with the experiment. I could not find a rifle/bolt combination that would not chamber any of the fired cases from the others.
Maybe not scientific, but it did alleviate MY concerns about firing mismatched German 98s.

JT

Tamara
October 14, 2010, 07:39 AM
Pistols were different; they were more portable and could be dropped in a pocket or field pack.

Oddly enough, nearly every single Luger that has ever been placed on the glass in front of me was taken off a dead German general. :D

Mike Irwin
October 14, 2010, 09:02 AM
"Oddly enough, nearly every single Luger that has ever been placed on the glass in front of me was taken off a dead German general."

Even the East German ones? :)


The only Luger to ever drop on the glass when I worked at the gunshop was (so the story went) being sold by the son of an American infantryman who said his father found it, and some other neat stuff, in an abandoned barracks house in France.

jtb1967
October 14, 2010, 10:20 AM
I've been offered a number of import marked P38's Lugers, etc.over the years that were "captured off a German officer". A few weeks ago a guy tried to seel me a Blue Sky import marked M1 carbine that his dad "brought back from the war" :D

dreverlast
October 15, 2010, 03:48 PM
Sorry, the barrel is a CAI Vermont, Georgia 8mm replacement. The one part about this rifle I dont care for. As for a Luger, I would love to own one but are pricey.

tater134
October 15, 2010, 04:31 PM
Sorry, the barrel is a CAI Vermont, Georgia 8mm replacement. The one part about this rifle I dont care for. As for a Luger, I would love to own one but are pricey.

No its not those are just the import markings stating the importer of the rifle and the caliber.The barrel is original as are the rest of the parts.

JT-AR-MG42
October 16, 2010, 05:53 AM
Yeah dreverlast,

Hope you did not think I was implying the barrel was not war2. I was just curious about the markings on it.
The markings are sometimes found under the wood like the photo of the 1936 S/243 I have added. Using photobucket adds a half hour to the post on my dial up so they are just attached.

The photo of the 1907 DWM rework shows the '02' marking for a rebarrel. That mark is not always put TDC and is also found under the wood on some rifles.

JT

dreverlast
October 16, 2010, 08:13 PM
How do I remove the wood to see the markings? Thanks

emcon5
October 16, 2010, 09:16 PM
How do I remove the wood to see the markings?

This shows the steps, probably farther than you want to go.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauser98k/rifledisassembly2006/index.asp

I don't do it in that order, he unscrews the action before taking the barrel bands and handguard off, I do the bands first.

James K
October 17, 2010, 08:14 PM
Hi, Tamara,

I have run into guys who didn't bother with mere generals. One guy showed me the the Walther PP he "tooken off ol' Herman hisself". Sure enough, the gun had "Herman Gerring" electric pencilled on the slide. And there was the guy with a Luger he took off none other than Hitler himself when he captured Der F├╝hrer. When I mentioned that the "gentleman" in question was supposed to have committed suicide in Berlin, the ex-GI told me that Hitler got away while he was not looking.

I was still a youngster (12-13) when those guys came back. They were heroes and we owe them our freedom, etc., but they were the biggest bunch of liars you ever saw. I suspect the biggest liars were the ones furthest from combat, but can't prove it.

Jim

madcratebuilder
October 19, 2010, 05:00 AM
Cute story Jim. I get worked up over the "bring back" term as a few friends have been ripped off by unscrupulous dealers that use the term freely.

I go ballistic when I hear Viet Nam bring back!:eek:

Tamara
October 19, 2010, 06:20 AM
I go ballistic when I hear Viet Nam bring back!

I've seen a Vietnam bring-back SKS. Of course, back in '80, that was about the only kind of SKS you'd ever see, and they were rare and exotic. It belonged to a friend of my parents and he'd had it chromed like a bumper. I took it, along with a bunch of other souvenirs and trinkets, to school in the 7th grade for a class project on the Vietnam War. If you see an SKS with no import marks that hasn't been refinished, it might well be a bring-back, since there wasn't a lot of commercial firearms trade going on between the US and the East Bloc before 1968. :)

Also, if you run into a safetyless Tok with no import marks and the right grips, it's pretty good odds it came home in some GI's dufflebag. Not that that adds any special value to what's already a pretty rare piece. Even if it is a "bring back", it just means some clerk in Saigon bought it as a souvenir, not that a Navy SEAL snatched it from the holster of the sentry he'd just eliminated. (My parents' friend was a USAF radio operator at Tan Son Nhut, and never saw combat, although he heard some. That's how I know his war stories are true: I know of him, a truck driver, a helicopter crew chief, and a cannon cocker, and other than those four guys, every other Vietnam vet I've met was a Force Recon Ranger SEAL Green Beret Sniper, and presumably full of it.)