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Doc Hoy
September 4, 2010, 01:14 PM
Help me out here.

Did Remington ever make a version of the 1858 with a target front sight that is exactly like the front sight on the target model Remington replicas now in production?

I was shown a pistol at the gun show today that was presented as a refurbished original. It had a very nice finish, good looking bluing. Ivory looking grips with a coiled cobra. Absoluely no exernal markings, no proof marks or date code. No serial number.

The vendor wanted 750.00. But that front sight, to me was a dead give-away.

I think it is a defarbed italian replica that includes a frame that does not have a target rear sight with a replacement barrel which just happened to have a target front sight.

AM I potentially wrong about the front sight?

plumbernater
September 4, 2010, 01:48 PM
Looking on wikapedia about the remingtons the only things that changed during its time of original manufactoring was the hammer, loading lever, and the cylinder. Thats all I could accuratly find out. Hope this helps No you are not wrong about the front sight, its not right for the gun. Gun owner is pulling your leg

plumbernater
September 4, 2010, 01:52 PM
Oh yes from my understanding the orginal remingtons in good shape are quite a collectors item and not cheap.

bedbugbilly
September 4, 2010, 02:36 PM
Doc - were there ANY markings on it at all? From your description, I'm a thinking that it is possibly a "de-farbed" replica? Just a guess on my part but I know one fellow who used to take a Colt repro, defarb it and he had his own set of Colt stamps. By the time he "aged" it, you had to really know your stuff to tell it from an original as it was that good. I've never heard of the type of front sight you're talking about on an original but then, I'm no "expert" either. Too bad that you couldn't have taken a few photos of it as it would be interesting to see it. I always love some of the "stories" that are made up by those wishing to peddle something they have - not all folks are that way I know, but there are some real "doozies" out there who go by the rule of "if you don't know, then make it up". You, I and others have all experienced that. On the other hand, there is nothing to say that it couldn't have been a weapon that the owner had altered to fit what he wanted either - I often wonder what it will be like in another hundred years when the modern pistols/rifles we have today that have been altered by their owners end up being collector pieces - will they be viewed as "variations" like some of the antiques that we see today that were owner altered? I know that none of this helps in regards to your question but hey . . . . does anything I ever say help? :D

Doc Hoy
September 4, 2010, 03:05 PM
I was not able to find any markings during my examination. I pulled the cylinder out of it looking for a serial number on hidden part of the cylinder. Did not find anything.

What was particulaly troubling was the target front sight on the barrel, but no matching sight on the frame.

I think this was a pistol that was cobbled together from parts and then cleaned up nice. It is entirely possible that the seller believed it was original. On the other hand it is also possible that it IS original. But I doubt it.

Slowhand
September 4, 2010, 03:40 PM
Very interesting... Doc you have been around these old gals a lot longer than I have. I would have loved to see a few pictures of it but Gun Shows "frown" on that sort of thing. I've seen several deal at guns shows that were just too good to be true and with some questionable modifications.

With absoluely no exernal markings, no proof marks or date code. No serial number. The Man With No Name Cobra perhaps on the grip and the price make it all sound too good to be true. The target sight makes it even more questionable.

Kerry Barlow says in a great article that the New Model Army produced in 1863-1878, "A new front blade sight was added to the army version,the navy version kept the older german silver cone front sight."

http://civilwarhandgun.com/remington.htm

Besides the question on the sight, there is of course the obovious considerations. If I were refurbishing an Original 1858 Remington why would I remove all the markings to prevent identification? I'd love to have an "Original" but $750. sounds more like an Italian Acid Job. Cavet Emptor is always the name of the game.

The guy may have believed or hoped it was an original but....

freedom475
September 4, 2010, 10:36 PM
I am not psitive of the dates and I am not an expert on Rems.. But it is my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong so I can learn too) that the original 58 had no cylinder notches for the hammer to rest in between the nipples..this came in 61??(not sure of dates) then shortly after that,, a the Mainspring screw was added to the grip frame. So these are sure indicators to look for when considering authenticity.