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Arondos
September 1, 2010, 01:51 AM
I'll start by saying I am by no means a long gun expert. Mainly shot .22 LR. Not much rifle shooting back in Ohio where I am originally from.

Guy I know has an M1. Told me it was a WWII rifle. Original etc. he wants $1500 for the gun, bayonet, and 600 rounds. Not sure what one is worth.

Finally got a look at it tonight. What I found so far. It has been shot but is in great shape. Found a tool in the stock, copper bore brush on a pivoting mount, has a second pivot (M3A1 cleaning tool?).

Wood has a few very small imperfections small dimples you have to get close and look for, basically no wear. Haven't seen the bayonet yet but I am told it is original.

On the receiver

U.S. Rifle
Cal 30M1
Springfield
Armory
3220717 (I believe this puts it around Oct 1944?)

The bolt is stamped
Z-3-A
6528287-SA

Trigger Housing is stamped
46025WRA

az_imuth
September 1, 2010, 05:48 AM
I'm no expert either, but if the rifle is a SA and the trigger guard is a WRA (Winchester), then the rifle is not original. The ammo is probably worth around $250 if it's of good quality. The bayonet could be worth between $100-$150 for the average 10" type or $250 and up for the 16" style.

Keep in mind that a nice service grade from CMP is $600, so if this one is an equivalent rifle you'd be paying $900 for the ammo and bayonet. Seems pretty steep to me. If you know someone in the area that is knowledgeable on Garands, you might ask them to take a look at it for you. There are just a lot of variables that factor into the equation, including the possibility of a welded receiver.

big_bad_kitty
September 1, 2010, 06:48 AM
I finally got a service grade yesterday and will share what I learned over the past month or so researching before I bought! The ammo now is in the $.40 to $.50 per shot. Very difficult to find all matching components (WRA on everything or SA on all parts) because of the reworks that have been done through the years. If you do get one with all the same mfg., it will be worth much more. My service grade ran $600 +/- $27 shipping and the ammo was about $.46 round. This is what they run through CMP. I'm not saying the price you are looking at is good or bad, only sharing what I found out while I was looking at buying. I have not even looked into a bayonet for it yet but will do so within the next few weeks so interested in hearing what comes up about prices!

overland
September 1, 2010, 06:54 AM
That sounds somewhat high. Look at the Garands offered via the CMP. They have a full range of models from about 495 to 1100 or so.

Winchester_73
September 1, 2010, 06:58 AM
I'm no expert either, but if the rifle is a SA and the trigger guard is a WRA (Winchester), then the rifle is not original. The ammo is probably worth around $250 if it's of good quality. The bayonet could be worth between $100-$150 for the average 10" type or $250 and up for the 16" style.

I agree with most of this. 10 in bayonets sell frequently on ebay for less than $100, depending on the maker of the bayoent and the sub type of 10in bayonet, 1905 E1 or M1 garand type. The 1905 E1 was a shortened to 10 in bayonet made from the older 16 in bayonets when the army transitioned to 10 in since it was found to be better in combat. The M1 garand type was made to be a 10 in blade. I assume that the 1905 E1 version is more rare but its hard to say. You can tell the 2 versions apart by looking at the fuller aka blood groove, if it runs full length to the edge, it was shortened, if not, then its the M1 garand bayonet. 16 in types are very collectable since many were shortened. Another factor is the maker, some are rarer than others.

On the receiver

U.S. Rifle
Cal 30M1
Springfield
Armory
3220717 (I believe this puts it around Oct 1944?)

The bolt is stamped
Z-3-A
6528287-SA

Trigger Housing is stamped
46025WRA

The SN you provide is most likely post WWII. The bolt is Springfield, evidenced by SA for Springfield Armory. The trigger housing, while not being original, is a more rare/sought after part than an original SA. You should be able to trade even or sell the WRA trigger housing outright and take part of that money to buy a SA trigger housing.

Keep in mind that a nice service grade from CMP is $600, so if this one is an equivalent rifle you'd be paying $900 for the ammo and bayonet.

While this is true, those CMP garands will dry up before you know it. Also, those CMP garands are probably import stamped. I personally would rather have a non import stamped garand.

Overall, it doesn't sound like its good value for the money. Even if the bayonet was a rare 16 in ($300) and the ammo is US made from WWII, ($ - not sure), you would still have around $900 in a SA garand. Make sure to check the barrel by retracting the bolt and checking the left side, IIRC, for the revealed portion. It should have SA with a month and year. SA made more garands than any of the 4 contractors who were Springfield, Winchester, International Harvester and Harrington and Richardson. And before anyone chimes in with their uncle's Singer made garand, the answer is no, no other companies made GI garands.

Flatbush Harry
September 1, 2010, 08:47 AM
This sounds like poor value. Unless all parts are period correct and matching for the manufacture date for the receiver, you would, at best, have a "Service Grade" rifle, currently selling for roughly $600 at CMP. If ALL parts are correct for the manufacture date (and this is highly unusual for an M1 produced during WWII at this time), you would have a "Correct Grade", selling for $1100 at this time at CMP.

As to ammo, Greek HXP M2 ball sells for $96/192rd spam can, loaded into clips and in 6 clip bandoliers.

As to bayonets, CMP sells new, unissued M5A1 (postwar) bayos w/ scabbards for $60, $45 for used ones.

I cite CMP because:

1. you know what you're getting and you'll get documents to prove it
2. they stand behind EVERYTHING they sell and have the best customer service in the industry (frankly, for any business with which I have ever dealt)
3. they support the shooting sports

FH

EDIT:

PS- CMP Garands are not import-stamped as they are all given to CMP by the US Army. While all recent ones are returns from our various allies, they are not stamped as imports as they were returns from an allied country to the US Army

Winchester_73
September 1, 2010, 09:05 AM
As to bayonets, CMP sells new, unissued M5A1 (postwar) bayos w/ scabbards for $60, $45 for used ones.

The M5A1 variant was the Korean War era M1 garand bayonet with the later M7 (M16) bayonet style blade (same as M3 knife, m4 bayonet and M6 bayonet) which is very common today. $45 sounds fair for an M5A1 bayonet.

I also found out that the garand in question by the OP is in fact a 1944 produced garand which are usually worth a premium over post WWII garands.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/tea/m1serial.htm

Despite WWII manufacture, I still think the garand in question is over priced.

thesheepdog
September 1, 2010, 09:10 AM
How accurate are the Service Grade from CMP?

kraigwy
September 1, 2010, 09:35 AM
How accurate are the Service Grade from CMP?

Most CMP Garands I've seen shoot fairly well ( mine shoots great). I don't shoot CMP surplus ammo in mine.

Something else about the CMP Garands, before they are put up for sale, they are completely gone over by CMP armors so you know you are getting something that is safe to shoot.

I still have a bit of M-72 (Match Ammo) laying around, but if you want your Garand to really shoot, try 168 SMKs, in Winchester Brass, 47 Grns of 4895, and Fed Match primers.

CMP still has a good supply of Garands for sale, and for $1500, you can get the CMP Garand, a new barrel and stock, and have money left over to load up some dern good ammo.

THEN, take up CMP Vintage Rifle Matches shooting your garand.

A hint to all about CMP Garands, right now they have a fair supply of Garands. Not long ago they had a fair supply of M1 Carbines, the carbines are all gone, so are the M1903A3s. I'm not so sure its a good ideal to wait.

thesheepdog
September 1, 2010, 09:40 AM
So are we looking at 2 MOA with a Service Grade? I have heard that the rack grade shoot about 3-4 MOA

nbkky71
September 1, 2010, 06:01 PM
A 2MOA service grade shooter is not unheard of, but I'd say that 3-4MOA would be the norm.

SIGSHR
September 1, 2010, 06:27 PM
Most M-1 are "mixmasters", there is a picture that answers the question "Why are all original M-1s so hard to find?", it shows an Ordnance man at his table in the South Pacific surrounded by stacks of M-1s. The Ordnance Field Service people were concerned with getting the rifle back in service, they took parts from their bins, if it fit and the rifle functioned they put it back in service, then there were the "Clean and Repair" programs after WWII and Korea. I have 2 with 6 digit SNs-September 1941 and May 1942, but one has a 1952 vintage barrel.
I agree with the others, the asking price for this package is high.

Tim R
September 1, 2010, 07:59 PM
I have bought 4 M-1's from the CMP. 2 Springfields, 1 Winchester and 1 H&R. The Springfields are SA, the Winny is a mixmaster and the H&R is correct complete with better LMR barrel.

All are service grades or correct grade except a field grade Springer which is about 3 parts away from being WWII correct complete with a lock bar rear sight and a correct narrow front sight.

Non have any sort of import stamps because like it was already said they are either USGI or lend lease returns.

All 4 rifles have shot John C. Garand matches with the rifles doing what was needed if the nut behind the trigger did his part.

The Greek ammo I've bought and shot have shot better than any Lake City I've come across.

If I were looking for a M-1, which I am, need a tarctor, I would do the paper work for he CMP. If you spend he kind of money the guy swants for his, you will end up with a far better M-1 from the CMP.

Just my 2 pieces of brass.

chris in va
September 2, 2010, 09:01 PM
I have a mechanically perfect 'field grade' M1 from the CMP, cost me $495. Wood has...character, but I like that.

Just go to one of the stores, spend a couple hours gauging them and make it YOURS.

1911Mann
September 2, 2010, 10:30 PM
Already had a Garand, so my experience with the CMP is an 03-A3 Springfield and an M1 Carbine. I've also bought ammo from them. If I didn't have a Garand, I'd happily go the CMP route. It's a much better route than your friend's over-priced package.

That correct grade looks very interesting to me. :D

LDBennett
September 3, 2010, 08:20 AM
There is no way to determine if the Garand you buy or are contemplating buying is original. The best you can do is verify that the parts and pieces matches the vintage of parts and pieces that the gun would have been delivered with. The parts are not serialized. All the numbers on the parts are drawing numbers or part numbers, not serial numbers. The Garand parts were designed to be interchangeable and armory processes took advantage of that feature. When processed for cleaning or repair parts were freely exchanged between guns.

So for collectors, the parts all have to be of the correct vintage and source. For shooters that matters little. Beat up stocks can be replaced with new ones. The metal parts can be left as is or refinished. But all the working parts need to be gaged to assure the gun will operate reliably and safely. If CMP does this automatically they are the best source of an original Garand for a shooter. Maybe the best deal for a shooter is a "NEW" Garand from the new Springfield Arms Company (??).

I have a "Blue Sky" Korean re-import Springfield Garand. By luck it was made in the last month of WW II. Its a shooter where I have refinished and bedded the stock, replaced the barrel, and scoped it. I also have a Beretta parts Garand with an USA made receiver (from the CA Big Five sporting goods store) that outshoots the Springfield. Both are excellent guns and I thoroughly enjoy shooting both of them regardless that they are not collectable.

LDBennett

Arondos
September 5, 2010, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the info. After running numbers, and talking to the seller about it not being what he thought the price is being negotiated. Got my hands on it and it is in real good shape, nothing more than some very minor scratches/dings in the wood.

It has been shot and is plenty accurate. Bayonet with it is a surplus M5A1. He also has 28 clips and after counting about 700 rounds.

ejhc11
September 5, 2010, 07:34 PM
Check out Tony Giacobbe at: http://www.garandguy.com/issuegrade.htm

He's an expert armorer on M1 Garands and for that price you could get a pristine match rifle - wish I had $1500 to spend....! Good luck...

Ignition Override
September 6, 2010, 12:52 AM
You probably won't pay much less than $300 for 600 rds. of GI ammo.
If you subtract ammo + the price of a bayonet, can you trust what is left? There are plenty of bayonets, and my neighbors or gun buddies don't want to see these.

My "Gun Guru" has 18 Garands (he won most by winning matches), and he just bought me my first at the Camp Perry store.
His advice supports that of dozens of owners: the CMP is the most reliable source.

Many people sell CMP rifles After changing parts or doing other alterations.
Why take a chance with safety or reliability? My Service Grade's bore looks like a mirror ($600 rifle) and we know Where it Came From.

Arondos
September 6, 2010, 06:03 PM
After getting hold of it. I field stripped it. The number stamped on the right side of the receiver doesn't match up with the serial number on the rear. Posted some pics on the Cal guns forum and one of the people on there spotted a weld. Upon closer inspection sure enough the receiver has been cut in half and welded with parts from two different weapons. Going to pass on this one and probably go through CMP.

Tim R
September 6, 2010, 06:19 PM
Good Catch! I think your idea of going through the CMP is a very good one. Buy the best grade you can afford, even make it hurt a little and you will come out far ahead. You just can't go wrong with a Service grade. Yeah, the wood could be a little rough but it's the metal that counts.

A friend of mine got a Springfield Service grade and I have to admit it was almost as good a my correct H&R.

Buying from the CMP is not hard for a retired Navy guy. ;)

Arondos
December 21, 2013, 08:41 PM
Did not realize I never responded to the thread. Bought a Garand from CMP. New barrel and stock. Biggest problem is my aging eyes and iron sights.

az_imuth
December 21, 2013, 09:52 PM
Like they say...better late than never.;)

Congrats on your "new" M1!

tahunua001
December 22, 2013, 01:46 AM
dang it, it's another zombie thread.