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catken
August 26, 2010, 07:49 AM
Not sure what the difference between no.10 and no.11's. The no. 11's for my Rem. 1858 revolver need to be pinched to stay on. Does this mean I need to go to a no.10. Thinking about a buying a capper. Will a pinched cap work in a capper. Ken

ClemBert
August 26, 2010, 08:10 AM
It means that either you just need to try other brands of caps or replace your nipples with ones that are precision made like Treso bronze nipples.

You didn't specify what brand cap you are using. There aren't any industry standards for caps. So one brand will vary from another. Even within brands from one production run to the next there will be tolerance differences. I don't like the idea of pinching caps. "In a pinch" it will work but IMHO it isn't the proper or ideal implementation. If they are pinched then they are bowed and that doesn't make for an airtight sealed system. Will people who pinch caps experience an eventual chain fire? I don't know and I don't want to find out. The following pics show my observations on a few different caps I have used.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/PercussionCapCompare.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/PercussionCaps.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/Pictures014.jpg

noelf2
August 26, 2010, 08:20 AM
I would recommend using #10s with a capper. Push the #10s on well with the capper. I sometimes get a first try FTF with a #10 cap pressed on with my thumb. Usually fires on the second try. Pressing on firmly with a brass capper fixed the problem for me (I didn't really want to mess around with the hammer spring tension). Just make sure that the capper will fit in the narrow cutout around the nipple on your 1858 first. Some cappers won't fit.

ClemBert
August 26, 2010, 08:28 AM
If you don't get FTF with caps installed with just mere thumb pressure and you have to use a capper then you haven't found the right cap/nipple combination. I would suggest trying a different brand of caps or a different size within the brand you are using. And, Treso nipples go a long way to eliminate the problems some of y'all are experiencing.

catken
August 26, 2010, 08:31 AM
The caps that I am using are CCI Magnum Percussion Caps No. 11. Ken

ClemBert
August 26, 2010, 08:37 AM
The caps that I am using are CCI Magnum Percussion Caps No. 11.

The Winchester Magnum caps are the same as the CCI brand, just in different packaging. Those caps were the first brand I ever tried when I got into BP. They were trouble on my SS ROA. I constantly had FTF problems. Usually the second strike of the hammer set them off. I've since moved onto Remington caps and haven't had the same problem again.

You should pick up some Remington 10's and 11's and see how those work for you. Seriously, take the hint....look into Treso nipples. ;)

Jbar4Ranch
August 26, 2010, 09:03 AM
Remington #10's. Period.

Toney D
August 26, 2010, 09:35 AM
10s are smaller than 11s. you put 10s on a rifle it will take one hammer strike just to seat them.

11s on a pistol will fall off.

Hardcase
August 26, 2010, 10:16 AM
Well this thread is a little serendipitous! Today I'm ordering replacement nipples for my Pietta Colt 1860 because number 10s are too small and number 11s are too big. So I hot-footed it over to Track of the Wolf, which has AMPCO nipples in stock, but I want to be sure that I'm getting the right thing. I picked out the "Nipple, 6-.75mm metric thread, for replica Remington or Colt revolvers by FAP - Pieta, #11 cap, Ampco bronze". Correct?

And, since we're sort of on the subject, I'd like to replace the original nipple in my 1862 Colt contract Springfield rifle with a new one so that I don't pound the antique one to death. Track of the Wolf gives me too many options. I'm pretty sure that it's a 5/16-24 thread, but I'm not positive. Who wants to help me out?

ClemBert
August 26, 2010, 10:18 AM
10s are smaller than 11s. you put 10s on a rifle it will take one hammer strike just to seat them.

11s on a pistol will fall off.

Huh????? :rolleyes:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/PercussionCaps.jpg

sltm1
August 26, 2010, 10:26 AM
Hardcase, I just replaced all the nipples in my Savage Navy pistol for the same reason. Track of The Wolf suggested I try using original replacement nipples they have for Colt and Remingtion, they fit perfectly. I would go by their recommendation and if there's an assortment to choose from, order them all, they have no problem with returns or refunds. Good luck.

noelf2
August 26, 2010, 10:54 AM
If you don't get FTF with caps installed with just mere thumb pressure and you have to use a capper then you haven't found the right cap/nipple combination. I would suggest trying a different brand of caps or a different size within the brand you are using. And, Treso nipples go a long way to eliminate the problems some of y'all are experiencing.

The OP says he's thinking about getting a capper. My response is that the capper may fix his problem if he uses #10 caps and presses firmly. If this works for him (as it does for me), buying Treso nipples is unnecessary. If the OP would rather not use a capper, then perhaps Treso nipples is the way to go, but a set of Treso nipples will cost him more than a brass capper. Also, he can't just go to Walmart, Gander Mtn, Bass Pro, or other local store and get Treso nipples. Most likely he can get a good brass capper locally.

denster
August 26, 2010, 10:56 AM
ClemBert. What gets confusing is that CCI #10 and #11 are the same height and #10 on most of the pistol nipples will be too tight while #11 which is larger with CCI will be too loose. With the Remingtons the #10 has a larger mouth opening but is longer than the #11. The nipples are tapered cones and how far up the nipple the cap goes determines fit. I find that the #10 Remingtons fit the best on most pistol nipples.

ClemBert
August 26, 2010, 11:04 AM
Fellas, I'm not trying to get into a debate over this. If y'all have a process that works for you then great. Continue to use it. I was merely pointing out that trying out different caps may be the best/first approach instead of using a bigger hammer (capper) to fix the problem. Additionally, I should say that there isn't a universal standard for nipple size on any of these firearms. Like caps there is probably a difference from manufacturer-to-manufacturer AND within a manufacturer depending on which lot the nipple comes from. Treso is one of the few nipples that I know of that try to hold very tight tolerances. The OP specified he has a Remington 1858. From that I don't know if it is an original Colt, an Uberti, a Pietta, ASM, et al. I assure you that all those makes do not have the same exact nipple. Therefore to say "#10 is the solution" or "Remington is good and CCI is bad" is not a helpful answer to help the OP understand what the best approach may be.

mykeal
August 26, 2010, 11:36 AM
The following chart has been published on this forum many times over the last few years.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/CapSizes.jpg

It affirms ClemBert's observations (with the exception of the length of the Remington No. 10 - what's with that?) and has been verified to some extent on other forums.

He's absolutely right about there being no standard either between manufacturers or even within a given manufacturer's catalog. You gotta specify both the number AND the manufacturer, and you CANNOT make any statements about relative size or fitness from one brand to another or from one size to another.

ClemBert
August 26, 2010, 12:08 PM
It affirms ClemBert's observations (with the exception of the length of the Remington No. 10 - what's with that?) and has been verified to some extent on other forums.

mykeal, I looked at your chart and then at my chart to see what the differences are. After you pointed out the difference between the two I thought "oops, I must have messed up or made a typo". I just went and rechecked the Remington No. 10's I have on hand with calipers and sure enough they are in fact 0.179 in height. Glad to know I'm not losing my mind just yet. Anyhow, this exercise just reaffirms the fact that from lot-to-lot within manufacturer you can see some significant differences.

In the pic below, the Remington No. 11 is on the left, the Remington No. 10 is on the right, and the Winchester Mag No. 11 is in the middle.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/PercussionCapCompare.jpg

denster
August 26, 2010, 12:10 PM
Mykeal. That was a generalized observation on the #10 Remingtons. They work the best on both my Ubertis and Piettas with the least hassel. You are right there is no standard. The solution of buying Tresso nipples is a good one if you have one or two revolvers but at $36 a set if you have twenty revolvers it can get pricey.

noelf2
August 26, 2010, 01:11 PM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the OPs questions (perhaps he can clarify??). My interpretation is that he currently pinches #11 caps, and that works for him (but wondering if a #10 would be better). Now he's wanting to get a capper (not a big hammer to solve a small problem -- He just wants one!) and is wondering if pinched caps will work through it. My answer was that he may not need to pinch #11s because he'll be better able to press on #10s instead. I don't know if there will be an issue pressing on pinched caps from a capper, so I can't really answer that question.

**For me**, the most practical solution is the least expensive one that allows me to have the most flexibility and reliability with products available locally. I don't want to have to look all over town or online for the only percussion cap that works for my revolver-nipple-cap combination, today, and may not work tomorrow. I find that I can use ANY #10 cap on my Pietta 1858 revolvers if I take care to very firmly seat the cap, and this is done best and safest (for me) with a $12 capper.

Doc Hoy
August 26, 2010, 01:12 PM
....That the only chain fire event I ever experienced personally was because of a poorly fitting cap.

This was on a Brass frame Sheriff's 1851 pattern. I don't believe the problem had to do with the non battery cap banging against the recoil shield because:

1. It only happened once
2. I did have a tough time getting the caps to fit on the nipples

I don't believe it came from the muzzle end, because:

1. The bullets were tight fitting...shaved a ring pretty much all the way around.
2. I greased all of the chambers as I always do.

arcticap
August 26, 2010, 05:55 PM
The opening of #11 caps that are pinched are not uniform and may or may not get hung up in a capper.
Sometimes their lip will fold over when the attempt is made to slip them onto the nipple.
It's probably best to try the #10's and if they fit too snug then the nipples can be dressed down a tad so that they will fit just right.
They can be dressed by hand by carefully honing them with fine sand paper or a another polishing media.
Then consider buying new nipples afterward if you're not happy with the results.

Noz
August 27, 2010, 09:16 AM
One of the reasons for buying the TRESO nipples has not been mentioned. That is the size of the flash hole is much smaller on the TRESOs. It restricts the amount of blow back through the flash hole thus allowing the caps to remain in place after firing.

I find that no matter how closely the hammer/nipple relationship is adjusted, after extended firing the nipple will start to mushroom on the end from the hammer strike. When I see my caps (#10 Remingtons) begin to split as they are forced onto the nipple I pull them out and do the following: I chuck the nipple by the threads into a cordless drill (lower RPM). I turn the drill on to a low speed and touch the swelled portion of the nipple to a fine file for a FEW revolutions. Usually all it takes is enough metal removed to leave a shiny shoulder on the nose of the nipple. Do not allow the flat nose of the nipple to touch the file as this would alter the hammer/nipple engagement. This slight taper also makes it easier to start the caps onto the nipples.

Kadmos
August 27, 2010, 01:32 PM
I'm using standard Peitta nipples, which a Remington number 10 seems to fit well, however with the taller cap, none of them fit in any straight line capper I've tried so far.

Anyone know of a straight line capper that holds rem 10's well?

Fingers McGee
August 27, 2010, 06:48 PM
My TDC dual spring straight line capper holds them just fine; although, I only use a revolver (snail) capper anymore.

hanleyfan
August 27, 2010, 09:31 PM
I have tried all of them and one I have found to work the best is the RWS #11 caps. I have used them on Peitta colts for the last 8 years and they stay on and fit well. the only problem is they are quite pricey compared to the others.