PDA

View Full Version : M1895 Nagant Revolver!


SigP6Carry
August 25, 2010, 12:22 AM
Well, folks, they seem to be back. A touch more expensive than they used to be, but I'm'a get one of these at the start of next month. I'm psyched, since I missed the chance before and wasn't willing to pay the gunbroker prices for them. Now, they're back at $100.

So, I've got a handful of questions about them.

I know that some people suggest NEVER firing .32S&W, Long or H&R in them, but I'll probably put some .32 S&W through it and keep it loaded with H&R for self-defense purposes in home.

But, I've been looking into reloading for them (if there's any gun to start reloading for: it's one of these!) and have read that .32-20 is an ideal case to load with .310 diameter bullets, but that still doesn't seal. How is that any better than firing .32S&W through it?

Also, what cartridges would be best to use to load 7.62x38R while allowing gas seal, still?

And finally: any way to lessen the trigger pull weight? IIRC, the pull is unbearable in DA and manageable in SA.

Thanks all!

the rifleer
August 25, 2010, 01:11 AM
You can buy conversion cylinders for them, then you can shoot all the .32 you want and not worry about anything.

Wildalaska
August 25, 2010, 01:22 AM
By a box of Fiocchi, shoot it, the take the fired cases, trim it to exactly 1.490 and load it. It isnt easy but its doable

WilddoasearchhereandibythewayIwillhavenewdatashortlyAlaska
™©2002-2010


I know that some people suggest NEVER firing .32S&W, Long or H&R in them, but I'll probably put some .32 S&W through it and keep it loaded with H&R for self-defense purposes in home.


Thats the silliest thing I have ever seen. get a baseball bat instead:rolleyes:

SigP6Carry
August 25, 2010, 01:41 AM
A baseball bat, aye? Didn't know it does the damage of an H&R Magnum at range.... nice to know. I'm going to order two boxes of hotshot Nagant ammo with my pistol, as well as two boxes of .32S&W and then pick up a box of H&R mag at my range when I go. I'll start reloading and I plan on loading some Nagant specific hollow points, but I'm still more than a few months away from reloading. In the mean time, I'll keep .32 H&R in my nagant.

I have a 9mm with JHP and a 12 guage with 00 Buck for home defense, but I've also got a Mosin, an Iver .22 and a .44 Blackpowder ready for "just in case." The .32 H&R loaded Nagant will fall into the same category as the Mosin, Iver and Blackpowder.

Buying a .32 ACP cylinder and firing .32ACP doesn't seem like it's any kind of improvement over the .32S&W long, though. From what I've read and seen, the .32ACP cylinder suffers from every problem that firing a .32S&W long in the nagant, only it's a new manufacture korean cylinder. Especially considering the cost of .32 ACP around me compared to .32 S&W long and short. .32ACP comes in at about $2 more a box than .32S&W long for me.

If I trim the Nagant shells down, though, won't they essentially be .32 S&W in the revolver concerning gas cutting and pressure?

noelf2
August 25, 2010, 08:25 AM
If I trim the Nagant shells down, though, won't they essentially be .32 S&W in the revolver concerning gas cutting and pressure?

No, the 32 S&W Long is a straight walled case and will bulge and split and lose energy. The cut down Nagant brass, or resized 32-20 has tapered walls (like the Nagant cylinder chambers) and won't bulge/split. 32 H&R Magnum cases are straight walled but thicker brass and will only bulge a bit, but are considered by some to be too high pressure for the old Nagant. I wouldn't run too many through my Nagant, but wouldn't hesitate to use them as a "last" resort.

For reloading cut down Nagant shells, or 32 S&WL, gas cutting and pressure depends on how hot you load them. I've had no visible gas cutting or overpressure signs (in the cylinder) with 32 S&W Long ammo loaded to factory pressures specs.

My 32acp conversion cylinder is a waste of time/space. I would like to get it bored to 32S&WL but not worth the expense. The original cylinder is better.

Clark500
August 25, 2010, 10:33 AM
Wildalaska,

I await your new data with great anticipation.

Wildalaska
August 25, 2010, 10:40 AM
A baseball bat, aye? Didn't know it does the damage of an H&R Magnum at range.... nice to know.

Didn't know that you were good enough with a gun to use one with a 14 pound double action pull, sights impossible to see even in broad daylight, and loaded with the wrong cartridge that could grenade off in your hand on the first shot:rolleyes:


For reloading cut down Nagant shells, or 32 S&WL, gas cutting and pressure depends on how hot you load them. I've had no visible gas cutting or overpressure signs (in the cylinder) with 32 S&W Long ammo loaded to factory pressures specs.

I loaded up 30 rounds last night, using Berry's Wadcutters, trimmed down Fiocchi cases and 2.7gr of Unique. By trimming to 1.490, then using a 30 carbine die to crimp, you get gas seal. Ill be shooting them in less than an hour.

WildandyouareusingtherightammoforthegunAlaska ™©2002-2010

Wildalaska
August 25, 2010, 11:53 AM
So here is this ams test target (I had two more but one was all torn up and the other was cardboard just to test for keyholing), only at 15 feet but still....

Once I get the custom seater plug made I can finalize this project. I have to shoot at 50 feet to check for keyholing too...think Im going to need to run the charge a bit hotter and seat further out.

Anyway...the legnth has been finalized at 1.490

WildmazurkaAlaska ™©2002-2010

SigP6Carry
August 25, 2010, 12:56 PM
what size bullets are you using? From what I can gather, a lot of Nagant shooters loose a lot of accuracy to undersized bullets.

Wildalaska
August 25, 2010, 02:31 PM
Looks like I lost o a lot of accuracy didnt it:rolleyes:

I cant remember what Berry's Miked out at. They are easier to load then .312s though/ Maybe Jay for Berry's will chime in

WildalmostthereAlaska ™©2002-2010

hardworker
August 25, 2010, 07:10 PM
The 32 longs shoot fine out of this gun. And for half the price of the real stuff it's all I shoot. Lets be honest, there's no real practical use for this gun other than blasting cans or maybe the occasional squirrel. Sure you could load 32 mags in them for defense but for the most part they're nothing more than oddball plinkers. The 32 long cases will split and bulge but I'm pretty sure the nagant is built out of melted down old soviet tanks and will handle the weakly loaded 32 longs all day. Might have to scrape some lead once in a blue moon though.

Wildalaska
August 25, 2010, 08:31 PM
The 32 longs shoot fine out of this gun.

But why not shoot the real thing:D


WildmoreintunewiththegunAlaska ™©2002-2010

SigP6Carry
August 25, 2010, 08:56 PM
That's why I'm asking, I'm hoping to get a good load and I'm looking for a launching point.

gandog56
August 25, 2010, 10:49 PM
but I'm pretty sure the nagant is built out of melted down old soviet tanks

Most of them were made well before Russians built lots of tanks.

noelf2
August 26, 2010, 07:58 AM
Most of them were made well before Russians built lots of tanks.

They shoulda built tanks out of melted down Nagants...;):D

But why not shoot the real thing

No such thing available.... I'm sure that what is called Nagant ammo now is not near what was originally shot from them. When you increase the amount of unique in your load, you may come close, but the whole process is too much of a PITA IMO. The brass will never be able to last but a few loadings because of the case mouth crimp required for a gas seal. I'll just keep getting .prvi Nagant ammo and reload 32SWL for this pop gun.

CowTowner
August 26, 2010, 09:39 AM
Hope this helps someone:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolm1895/ammunition.asp

SigP6Carry
August 26, 2010, 05:15 PM
Sorry Cow Towner, no new information from that link. Arguments/debates Wild and I have had in the past more than covers the information in that link, and then some. Thanks for the link though, I've read that entire site over a million times and love to see folks reference it.

hardworker
August 26, 2010, 05:49 PM
I'd rather shoot the real ammo but it costs twice as much and in this economy such actions would be fiscally irresponsible

SigP6Carry
August 26, 2010, 05:56 PM
Well, Real ammo isn't that much more expensive than .32S&W or .32H&R thanks to Hotshot, but the hotshot ammo seems to shoot at the same power as .32S&W while H&R fires at what original Nagant ammo did. But, because of the case wall (I think that's what it's called) its pressure goes in the wrong direction compared to original nagant ammo, which is what makes it "dangerous" in the eyes of some.

Shooting the hotshot and reloading the brass or loading 32-20 or .30 Carbine brass for the Nagant is both economic and "safe" in the eyes of Nagant purists, which is what I'm planning on doing, as well as .32 S&W and .32 H&R. .32H&R won't be a consistent diet in my gun, just to be used as one of my "last resort home defense guns" until I get a good HD load built up for the Nagant.

So long as you reload ammo, the Nagant is not expensive to shoot at all.

hardworker
August 26, 2010, 06:31 PM
I can find 32 long for 15 a box at gun shows vs 28ish for the hotshot nagant ammo. The regular 32 and 32 mags are expensive though.

Wildalaska
August 26, 2010, 07:32 PM
The brass will never be able to last but a few loadings because of the case mouth crimp required for a gas seal.

Really...then the now up to 15 loads through Fiocchi brass must be a figment of my imagination.

You lose more to rim damage in the reloading process

No such thing available.... I'm sure that what is called Nagant ammo now is not near what was originally shot from them.

You can say that about 45 Colt, and many others......

WildsovietskysoyuzAlaska ™©2002-2010

SigP6Carry
August 26, 2010, 07:49 PM
I can find .32 S&W long for $15 a box, too. Nagant hotshot is about 22-25 a box mail order. .32 H&R is about $20 a box local for me. I'd think a couple boxes of Nagant mail ordered is worth it for the brass to reload, the .32 S&W is worth it for an immediate shooter and the magnum is worth it for a last ditch SD gun in my home. In the long run, the 100 rounds of hotshot Nagant Ammo will probably cost VERY little with reloading. I'm thinking with 5-7 loads per brass, it'd cost next to nothing.

Plus, I could use those 5-7 loads to perfect at least 7 of the rounds to a perfect nagant HD round... this makes my mouth water just thinking about. I can't wait.

Wild, I think you've REALLY turned me onto the idea of firing Nagant ammo and Nagant reloaded ammo with all your berating my idea that you can fire H&R and S&W through it.

hardworker
August 26, 2010, 09:08 PM
If I reloaded I'd go that route too. I feel like if you just discard the last 1/8th inch of the brass that just serves as a gas seal and reload them to look like regular rounds the brass would last longer.

noelf2
August 26, 2010, 09:09 PM
Really...then the now up to 15 loads through Fiocchi brass must be a figment of my imagination

Perhaps it is! :rolleyes::D

You can say that about 45 Colt, and many others......

Absolutely true, but for 45 Colt I don't have to get a mixture of reloading dies, modify a shell holder, and fabricate the rest using odd bolts and such and still not really have it down solid. Reloading 45 Colt and Nagant, even though we can't get original components for either anymore, is apples and oranges in comparison. 45 Colt was made to reload and still is, Nagant wasn't (just too rough on the case mouth).

I like my Nagant for the impractical mechanical genius behind it (a true curio, and cooler than ice). Not because I want to spend time working a complicated process to reload for it when there's already plenty of options. But hey, that's just me....;)

James K
August 26, 2010, 09:18 PM
A lot of interesting "information" there. First, the Russian Nagant is not junk or made out of scrap. It is a well designed gun and those of Russian manufacture are constructed of good quality steel, no worse than other nation's revolvers of the period. Even WWII guns are of good quality, well made and finished.

Its unique sealing of the barrel-cylinder gap is overkill, a solution without a problem, but probably seemed like a good idea at the time. Contrary to some writings, the mechanism is neither delicate nor complex, but it does not help the DA trigger pull. The rest of the gun is a basic Nagant, very similar to the Swiss, Swedish, and other Nagant designs of the same era.

Many people shoot .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, or other cartridges in them; none are correct and bulged and split cases are common. Further, none seal the b-c gap like the original rounds do. While the revolver is certainly powerful enough for a defense gun (in the original load at least), IMHO its heavy trigger pull and slow reloading make it a poor choice for carry or home defense.

I consider those guns collectors' items, and not practical guns for today with so many better choices available. But I admit that if a Russian Nagant was all I had, I would not feel unarmed.

Jim

Wildalaska
August 26, 2010, 10:38 PM
If I reloaded I'd go that route too. I feel like if you just discard the last 1/8th inch of the brass that just serves as a gas seal and reload them to look like regular rounds the brass would last longer.

Close. 1.490 with the bullett seated deep into the case and a crimp on the end gives you a gas seal.

Thats all you need, a light load and that careful trim


WildifeelaswissordnanzrevolvercomingonAlaska ™©2002-2010

the rifleer
August 26, 2010, 10:59 PM
Are these usually available at guns shows? Specifically Southern California? I've been to two gun shows and have never paid any attention to them. I would like to have one to go with my mosin nagant m44. I know my local gun shop has a pair, but they want $250!!!!:barf:

SigP6Carry
August 26, 2010, 11:41 PM
I don't think J&G would sell to Cali, as I doubt it's an approved firearm.

But the 1895 is a blackpowder revolver, through and through. Base on early 1870's Belgian revolvers with a proprietary gas seal system that made it unique. But, same as the 1873 Colt that prefaced it, it's a good and solid design that survived many more years than it should have. I consider it the European version of the Colt Peacemaker. Being that it's from Europe, it fires a smaller and under powered round.

the rifleer
August 27, 2010, 01:13 AM
Its a completely legal revolver in CA. That was not my question. CA is fairly strict about semi autos, but revolvers and manually operated rifles are fine. My question remains; is it a common find at a gun show?

PS- I have bought ammo from JG sales, but not guns. They ship it with out a problem, although buying a gun and buying ammo is two different things.

Wildalaska
August 27, 2010, 01:54 AM
I consider it the European version of the Colt Peacemaker.

FWIW, its sturdier than an SAA,

The European version of the Colt is the Webley.


Wildthereisa.455saaongbAlaska ™©2oo2-2010

Berry's MfG
August 30, 2010, 12:31 PM
Those were .312" bullets we made for Graf & Sons

Wildalaska
August 30, 2010, 03:32 PM
They work great!

WildsellthemAlaska ™©2002-2010

James K
August 30, 2010, 08:41 PM
A number of years ago there was a story about some international pistol competition. The only two serious competitors were the Russians and the Americans. The Russians showed up for practice with Nagant revolvers and did reasonably well, though the Americans could hardly suppress their amusement at the idea of competing with those antiques. But the Russians just kept on practicing.

On match day, the Russians showed up, as usual, with their battered old pistol cases. Then they pulled out brand new S&W K-38's and promptly proceeded to clean the Americans' clocks. The practice with the Nagants was a show, purely to "psych out" the competition and get them over-confident. Maybe our diplomats could learn a bit from that episode about dealing with the Russians.

Jim

SigP6Carry
August 31, 2010, 11:16 AM
I'm gonna have to keep my eye out for bullets of that size. Definitely the most informative source of info on these beauties is right here on this forum.

SigP6Carry
September 9, 2010, 08:19 PM
rifleer, I'm sorry, I forgot about your question! Terrible me! But, yeah, I've been to two gunshows in my life. One where I cared, one for extra credit in a history class in highschool (best teacher ever in retrospect, have an Enfield 1853 in his classroom, got accosted by the police when he retired for carrying it to his car!). I saw a ton of Nagant revolvers for REALLY high prices, and I mean high. One guy was trying to sell one for $350. The cheapest was around $120. I KNOW you'll find them at gunshows, but... for what price is the question.

Jim Keenan, I always love the crazy stories you tell. Love that one.

Sorry for resing a dead thread.

noelf2
September 10, 2010, 07:41 AM
AIM Surplus has them for under $100.

here (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3Nagant&groupid=3)

Hardcase
September 10, 2010, 10:09 AM
What about casting bullets for this round? I have a few boxes of whatever it is that J&G sells, which is jacketed. Is there a cast bullet that would work?

gandog56
September 11, 2010, 02:29 PM
I would think just about anything in .32 cal could be made to work.

johnm1
September 15, 2010, 11:46 PM
Wild,

What size/type of shell holder are you using? Everything I have tried won't hold the shell reliably.