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loc123
August 11, 2010, 06:50 PM
Hello,

i'm am an avid archery hunter but PA now has one week to use an inline in Oct so i'm going to give this muzzleloading thing a shot this year.

I purchased the "old" CVA Wolf today at cabelas. $179. I did not like the fit of the "NEW" CVA Wolf with the thumb breech. Just seemed to small of a fit for me.

I have purchased Triple 7 pellets (black box 50/50), Hornady FPB 300gr, and Triple 7/Winchester Primers.

The only other thing I got was a new nipple for the rod that is concave to I can push the bullet and not deform the point of it.

So what else is Mandatory for muzzleloading? What is not Manadory but very convienent or a must have?

I dont want to get crazy into this at this time, just want to get by and have fun and put some meat in the freezer early in the season.

Doyle
August 11, 2010, 07:30 PM
Go out to the Thompson Center website and watch their videos. They are schewed a little towards Thompson rifles, but the basic info is good. Here are a couple of tips:

1. Even though it is a pain, removing the breech plug and doing a complete wet swab after each shot will prevent any "crud ring" from forming.

2. The 300 grn bullets are a little heavy. You'll gain better ballistics by dropping down to 250s.

3. You'll probably get better accuracy by going to loose 777. Muzzleloaders like to be tuned with the right powder load. One gun might like 95 grn and the next might do much better with 105grn. Using pellets, you can't fine tune. Also, pellets can be notoriously inconsistent. Using loose power and the same amount of tamping pressure each time helps to ensure consistency. Consisentcy is paramount in getting good groups with a muzzleloader.

4. Buy a bulk pack of patches. They are cheap and easier than making your own. When I'm shooting at the range, I will have a patch in my mouth soaking up spit. The barrel (breech plug out) gets swabbed with that. If it comes out really dirty, another wet one goes in. Then, a dry patch (turn it over and run it through a 2nd time).

5. When you are done for the day, clean it well (no petroleum solvents - water based only) and give the bore a wipe down with a patch lubricated with bore butter. Be sure and wipe that out before shooting again.

davem
August 11, 2010, 08:45 PM
The pellets are convenient but in most situations using loose powder lets you adjust the load for optimal accuracy. If PA let's you use a scope- put one on the gun. A 4X fixed for a minimal amount of $$$$ should be okay if you just sight in and then go hunting. I think this business of special scopes is if you do a lot of shooting. Last year I got a CVA 209 Buckhorn Magnum. First time out I was getting 1 1/2" to 2" groups at 100 yards. Was I happy? You bet, most of the guys at the range with modern cartridge bolt actions weren't doing that well.

loc123
August 11, 2010, 08:47 PM
Why no Petroleum solvents/oils?

loc123
August 11, 2010, 08:50 PM
I also been reading on the net that CVA's "Old" Breech has had some issues with the tappered threads. I'm considering taking this back to cabelas and getting the new thumb removal breech. The articles kind of put some "scare" into me about this gun now.

Anything to worry about?

denster
August 11, 2010, 09:26 PM
777 loose powder is the way to go. Just works better that pellets and if you are interested in convenience pre-measure your charges into those little tubes they sell. A whole lot cheaper also.
A yard of diaper flannel from wally-world will make a lot of patches.
Don't be too concerned over the crud ring a damp patch down the barrel every couple of shots and you won't have it. No reason to pull the plug every shot.

Hardcase
August 11, 2010, 09:53 PM
The "no petroleum solvents" thing is because black powder and substitutes interact with the leftover solvent to create a nasty mess that is a royal pain in the butt to clean. Also, the residue from the burned powder is only soluble in water.

Instead of a light coat of gun oil, most of my buddies use olive oil on metal parts as a lubricant and preservative.

Doyle
August 11, 2010, 09:57 PM
Why no Petroleum solvents/oils?

Black power (and black powder substitutes) are water soluable. Petroleum based solvents won't work on them.


There will be people here that will tell you "no need to clean so well between each shot". Let me tell you why I do it. Black powder and its substitutes are corrosive, therefore you are not going to leave it in a "fired" condition for days/weeks/months at a time like you can a normal hunting rifle. The shot you make on a deer is always going to be made from a perfectly clean barrel. I want my scope sighted in exactly like it is going to shoot when I'm hunting. That is why I go to the trouble to do a complete wipedown (including breech plug removal) between shots at the range. It will take me an hour or more to do a sightin. But, I have absolute confidence that my kill shot on the hunt will go where I want it to.

FrontierGander
August 12, 2010, 06:14 PM
those articles by randy wakeman are total lies. CVA had issues in 1995 and 1996 with their breech plugs popping out. Ever since BPI bought out CVA, they've changed them around big time in the quality department.

When you read articles by that writer, just print them out and reuse them for toilet paper.

You are dead on when you say Scare..... Scare Tactics

thallub
August 13, 2010, 10:49 AM
those articles by randy wakeman are total lies. CVA had issues in 1995 and 1996 with their breech plugs popping out. Ever since BPI bought out CVA, they've changed them around big time in the quality department.


Wakeman is in the pockets of a Tulsa, OK ambulance chaser. Every time someone blows up a CVA gun using smokeless powder or so some other dumb stunt, Wakeman and his lawyer boss are right there.

.284
August 13, 2010, 11:39 AM
1. Get some speed loaders for field reloading. They house the powder charge. bullet, and primer in one container.

2. Bullet starter. This makes getting the bullet down the first few inches of the muzzle a bit easier.

3. Get two pack of bubble gum in the packaging that looks like a plastic can of chewing tobacco. After cleaning them, use one for wet patches and one for dry.

4. TC makes a good non petroleum bore cleaner for your wet patches.

5. Take a cleaning jag to the field with you.

6. Anti-seize compound or Gorilla grease is useful. This makes removing the breech plug less of a nightmare.

Other than that, I agree with much of what's been said here. Hardcore muzzlestuffers always prefer loose powder to pellets. However, there is nothing wrong with the Triple 7 pellets you purchased. I doubt you can return them anyway. Quite frankly, The are easier to work with when reloading in the field. Good luck, Jeff.

Doc Hoy
August 13, 2010, 02:23 PM
Where in Pennsylvania?

I grew up in Chester Country. Left in 69.

arcticap
August 15, 2010, 08:45 AM
The "no petroleum solvents" thing is because black powder and substitutes interact with the leftover solvent to create a nasty mess that is a royal pain in the butt to clean. Also, the residue from the burned powder is only soluble in water.

I don't agree that there's any interaction with black powder solvents and substitute powders.
I don't think that there's any interaction with black powder either since they essentially dissipate due to their volatility and they usually always get swabbed out before lubricating with Bore Butter or other lubes.
As a matter of fact, some black powder solvents are specifically made to remove black powder and they do evaporate. And some also serve a dual purpose as a patch lube for use with black powder.
So I think that there's some confusion between solvents and oils. Petroleum oil is what interacts with black powder, and not substitute powders. Oils can cause a blockage or interfere with the ignition of substitute powders if it significantly wets the powder in or near the flash channel in the barrel breech.

Pyrodex does share ingredients with black powder and maybe oil can cause an interaction with it when fired, I can't say that I know since I use Bore Butter. But as far as solvents go, I've never had an interaction problem by using solvents to clean Pyrodex residue. I've found them to be very helpful & effective for cleaning Pyrodex residue almost to the point of being a necessity when the residue is really heavy or caked on in spots.