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Hardy
August 9, 2010, 08:05 PM
I didn't like Jim Shockey. But I do now. It appears to have more knock down power than pyrodex. I am now shootin an 1860 army where I used 30 g of goex. At 20 ft it'l go through a 2X4 and a 1X4 before lodging into plywood. Pyrodex would not send it completely thru that 2X4 board but J Shockey gets it thru and cracks the 1X4. Not quite as strong as RBP but closer to it and cleaner. But you have to keep it dry, I had (previously)kept it in brass powder flask. Get's clumpy and wouldn't work. But anyway, have ya'll shot it.

Model-P
August 9, 2010, 09:48 PM
But anyway, have ya'll shot it.

Yes, and it doesn't meter worth a darn, making it the most inconsistent powder I have used in my BP revolvers. I couldn't wait to shoot it up just to get it out of my inventory!

Hardy
August 9, 2010, 10:31 PM
That's good enough for me. I guess I got about 10 rounds shootin good today and I changed my mind about hatin it. But -last post reinforces I won't order anymore. But damn it did shoot good today but can't depend on it now. Thanks.

FrontierGander
August 10, 2010, 12:08 AM
JSG likes a very compacted load to shoot good and consistent. It also does best with heavy bullets. I havent been able to get 3f to group with anything yet but 2f shoots awesome in my rifles with bullets 300 grain +

arcticap
August 10, 2010, 05:02 AM
I buy the similar American Pioneer Powder but only in fffg because the ffg is too chunky. The fffg measures and flows without a problem, and I give it a lot of compression in the chamber. It goes bang without any issues and is easy enough to clean.

http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com/

Erich
August 10, 2010, 08:06 AM
Man, my friend gave me some of the AP to try out in my T/C Scout .54 pistol. Just for background, 100 gr by vol. of Pyrodex RS gives me about 1230 fps with a 230-gr .535" ball. Same volume of AP yielded 754 fps. Maybe I needed a magnum cap, but it's not something I care to hassle with. :o

denster
August 10, 2010, 08:17 AM
That's curious. The company that makes APP and JSG specifically warns against heavy compression as causing erratic pressure and velocity. Yet you guys are saying it needs heavy compression to preform well. Doesn't sound like a very good product. I've never shot any APP don't think I will..
I'll stick with 777 as it preforms well with light compression, although it does go whacky if you compress it heavily and fouls like crazy.

ClemBert
August 10, 2010, 09:16 AM
I've read enough reviews about Jim Shockley Gold and American Pioneer to know they are basically the same powder and the overall performance is inconsistent at best. I've avoided it and will plan to continue to do so. My go to substitute powder is 777 if I don't have BP available.

FrontierGander
August 10, 2010, 09:20 AM
i had well over 15 bottles of american pioneer / JSG. None ever stated against heavy compression. In fact the bottle right on front says Load Firmly.

denster
August 10, 2010, 10:09 AM
Might want to check their website under loading instructions. I take load firmly to mean light compression with no space between powder and projectile. In any case they define how much compression is allowable.

denster
August 10, 2010, 10:18 AM
Quotes from APP site.
" Seat the projectile so that it is firmly against the powder. No further compression is required or recommended. "

"General loading instructions are to fill the case with our loose powder just to the point where the base of the bullet will very slightly compress the powder, about 1/16", when it is seated. NO FURTHER COMPRESSION is recommended or advisable and will result in increase pressures and erratic velocities! "

thallub
August 10, 2010, 11:20 AM
JSG likes a very compacted load to shoot good and consistent

+1.

I use a lot of JSG FFG and FFFG in my long guns. Some of my best 100 yard and 100 meter groups were fired using JSG. Two of my longest shots on game were made using JSG; 170 and 192 laser transit measured yards.

JSG is a very good and consistent powder when used right. JSG likes a tight fitting sabot seated very hard on the powder. I put a golf ball on the end of the ramrod and lean on it with both hands. When you feel the powder compress it is just right.

denster
August 10, 2010, 12:32 PM
I guess that's what makes me nervous about it. To get good results with it seems like you have to do exactly what the folks that make it say not to do.
Definetly makes me want to stick with 777.

flintforever
August 10, 2010, 02:43 PM
I like to ask someone gave me some Jim Shockley Gold gold in pellets I wonder can I work them into powder loose and use them in my ruger?
I also have a off question Goex 3F in my Ruger old army I have a few cans of 4F can I reduce the charge with the finer powder and use it in the old army?

shortwave
August 10, 2010, 03:46 PM
After shooting both JSG and AA in ffg, I don't see enough difference(if any) to compensate for the extra money JSG costs.

My experience's with both powders has been out of long guns not pistols.

thallub
August 10, 2010, 04:01 PM
To get good results with it seems like you have to do exactly what the folks that make it say not to do.

App does not warn against compressing their powder. I've used about 75 pounds of JSG over the years with no problems. APP compresses the stuff to get their sticks.

From the APP site:

http://americanpioneerpowder.com/loading.html

Seat the projectile so that it is firmly against the powder. No further compression is required or recommended.


JSG is a very clean powder, much cleaner than Pyrodex or 777. It does not leave that awful crud ring like 777 does. A 250 grain SST bullet in the tight fitting red sabot along with 100 measured grains of 3F JSG gives 1,745 fps when fired from the barrel of my .50 Encore. SD is 14 fps.

Model-P
August 10, 2010, 05:17 PM
I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Seems it works well in long guns, and not so well for revolvers.

ClemBert
August 10, 2010, 05:37 PM
APP and JSG Review (http://www.chuckhawks.com/american_pioneer_powder.htm)

Hardy
August 10, 2010, 06:23 PM
Well, I don't know. But can I print out your omments for customers asking about it?? It seemed to me that it works better in 44 c. if you add an extra 5 grains. Say---needs at least 35 g. If you don't- you might not get a fire. The 36 ubertis won't fire it w/ 19 grains. Needs at least 25. And it is clumpy-got to keep dry. I'm not totally sure about this since I no longer have any pyrodex but goex. And gotta reorder pistol powder. and yeah, I think all of us have a Barbeque and chili making mind set where it's all good but we have our different recipies etc:) But Jim S costs more. Huntin season is coming up and we want to provide best products and advise. Thanks to all of yu. Really!

denster
August 10, 2010, 06:59 PM
CleBert. Interesting article although you always have to take anything Randy Wakeman writes with a large grain of salt. Only he could have 200fps velocity swings and still get 2&1/2" 3 shot 100yd groups and call it miserable accuracy.

Hardy
August 10, 2010, 08:15 PM
I won't print out and share these posts or reference anything on thread w anyone. I never have.

thallub
August 12, 2010, 12:30 PM
CleBert. Interesting article although you always have to take anything Randy Wakeman writes with a large grain of salt. Only he could have 200fps velocity swings and still get 2&1/2" 3 shot 100yd groups and call it miserable accuracy.


Right on. Wakeman also tested Goex Pinnacle powder. Wakeman had good things to say about Pinnacle.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/goex_pinnacle.htm

Goex Pinnacle powder was made by APP. It is not being made since Hodgdon purchased Goex.

denster
August 12, 2010, 01:19 PM
Somebody at APP must have ticked him off. Wakeman was never one to let the truth get in the way of a good vendetta. Remember what he did to CVA.

Hardy
August 13, 2010, 09:35 PM
ok guys--I tried J Shockey today in the 1860 army/fluted w/ sim-ivory grips. Now- a 38 special spent case I think holds 25 g. The 25 g spout for copper flasks claims to hold 25g. I think it holds more to 27 to 30. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway that spout full shoots that 60 Army chambers good. If I fill the chamber up with J Shock with more than that it just poofs. Anyway, let me tell you that I have a small hobby shop that sells this stuff. I AGAIN will not print/share any of these posts. I NEVER HAVE!! I sell these guns , supplies etc. I love these guns. I am not a gunsmith. I shoot these guns and am not a marksman. I have sold some of you guys parts and on occasions spent more for shipping than what I charged. I am not in this for the money, or to **** anyone off or toot my own horn. But it seems I have bothered some of you guys I mean Y'ALL and sorry but just didn't understand . But I went out on a limb to promote and sell what you guys love AND ITS BEEN A TOUGH ROW TO HOE IN Upstate SC . You will not hear from me again on this section. Good luck to all.

Model-P
August 13, 2010, 10:07 PM
:eek:

Originally posted by Hardy:
But anyway, have ya'll shot it.

Oh, I dig. You just wanted to know if anyone had shot it, not what our observations were. I didn't understand your game. So sorry. Good luck.

P.S. Are you this Wakeman fellow or something? Oh, forgot you aren't going to post here again (don't understand why). Never mind.

Hardy
August 13, 2010, 10:34 PM
No Model P==you got it wrong. It's what happened in me asking if I could post ya'lls remarks on this powder. Had nothing to do with these posts which are good. I HAVE NEVER QUOTED ANYONE ON THIS thread or any others. I Promise. Goodby

B.L.E.
August 14, 2010, 10:54 AM
I like to ask someone gave me some Jim Shockley Gold gold in pellets I wonder can I work them into powder loose and use them in my ruger?
I also have a off question Goex 3F in my Ruger old army I have a few cans of 4F can I reduce the charge with the finer powder and use it in the old army?

Lyman's Black Powder Handbook lists FFFFg loads for the Old Army.

31 grains G-O FFFFg = 964 fps with .457 roundball
41 grains G-O FFFFg = 1036 fps.

The Ruger is strong enough that it won't blow up the gun, even FFFFg develops far lower pressures than smokeless loads develop.

I have shot 4f loads myself and that 41 grain full chamber load does get the attention of other shooters at a public range.

robhof
August 14, 2010, 03:22 PM
I've also used the 4f in my ROA, the 1st time was when I brought it and my flint rifle to the range and ran out of the pyrodex that I was using as my main propellent in the ROA, had a full primer horn of 4f for the flint tray. I put in 35 the 1st time and it shot just fine so I added the extra 5 and what a bang, I ended up emptying my primer horn too. The ROA manual says any granulation of powder can be used, but best results can be had with 3f, I got excellent accuracy with 40gr of 4f a wonder wad and round ball.

Hardy
August 16, 2010, 06:51 PM
OK There was a misunderstanding. Sorry =It is cleared up. I'm back. Are ya'll gonna shoot me! Yes, I was confused about JS 3 (and appreciate observations and feedback) and since the original post of this topic- I have been doing a little more shootin w/it. It appears to work great without wads between powder and ball. Maybe the wad contributed to the compression issues. 30 grains in 44's works better than same w/pyrodex in my tests when shooting at targets 25 to 35 ft. Any further or closer I do not know.