PDA

View Full Version : 6.5 carcano????


hillbillyme
August 7, 2010, 03:43 PM
i just picked up "cheap" a 6.5 carcano rifle BUT i dont know what modle it is or anything about it,,, can anybody help?

this is what i can find on the gun

18
Terni
1E8307
SG


thanks for ANY help.....

PS below is a picture of it

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/shan38574/439c8aa3.jpg

RJay
August 7, 2010, 05:27 PM
Well, not an expert on the Cacano, but it looks to be a sportized 91/24 carbine.

beadiebob
August 7, 2010, 06:23 PM
Made in italy most likely. It is a military surplus gun from the wwII era. Had one that an uncle brought back from the war. Ammo used to be available at army surplus stores and gun shows. Has a metal clip which feeds six rounds into the top of the receiver. Lee Harvey Oswall shot the President with one. I used mine to shoot deer. Clips available at same places most likely.

ISC
August 8, 2010, 12:13 AM
hopefully you didn't pay more than $60-$70

hillbillyme
August 8, 2010, 08:19 AM
so is there someplace else to post this to find out what the model is???? thanks

ISC
August 8, 2010, 08:47 AM
It is definately sporterized, so trying to figure out what model it used to be won't be as easy as looking at a picture. Any book value that's based on model type is worthless because it is non original.

About the only thing that will affect value is whether it has gain rifling, bore condition, and the quality of the sporterizing job.

Ammo is always going to be an issue unless you reload for it, and even then, it's common for bore size to be nonstandard (especially wartime production rifles) which complicates bullet selection.

There is a very good reason that they are considered the worst rifle of WWII.

Steven Mace
August 8, 2010, 10:53 AM
so is there someplace else to post this to find out what the model is???? thanks

hillbillyme, try visiting the link below.

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/

Steve Mace

beadiebob
August 8, 2010, 01:56 PM
hillbillyme

Can't help u with model numbers, I can say that I enjoyed mine while I had it. (Gave it up to my brother.) Depending on what u want to do with it but it is a great little short range deer gun. Shot several deer with it as did my dad. The last gun show I made I saw ammo for it. I would pay up to a hundred dollars for one like you have.

Scorch
August 9, 2010, 12:02 AM
You have a Model 91/28 carbine made at the Terni armory about 1940.

ISC
August 9, 2010, 10:34 AM
Below is the picyure I found for the 91/28 carbine. It has a more rudimentery notch type rear sight than the OP's picture. I am not sure that was the source for the conversion.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Carcano_M1891--38_1496.jpg

hillbillyme
August 9, 2010, 04:08 PM
here is a couple more pictures of the gun. thanks for all the help


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/shan38574/e46de0fa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/shan38574/8a4130fa.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/shan38574/0b801514.jpg

James K
August 9, 2010, 08:53 PM
It is a "sporterized" Model 1891 rifle. Thousands of them were modified just like that by U.S. importers, with the barrel cut down and the front sight put back on the shortened barrel. The handguard was removed and the stock cut down to sporting rifle length. The bolt handle was originally straight but was bent down and back as part of the conversion. Notice also that there is a rear sling swivel, but no front one; the band which held it was discarded when the stock was cut down.

No Italian carbines had that "ski ramp" rear sight (which, incidentally is not properly adjusted for the short barrel), and none had the bolt bent in exactly that way.

Jim

Webleymkv
August 9, 2010, 09:12 PM
Based on the picture, my best guess is that you have a sporterized M91 TS or M91/24. The barrel appears to be too short to be a M91 or M41 yet too long to be a cavalry carbine. Also, the elevation-adjustable sights preclude it from being a M38 short rifle.

The proper cartridge for your rifle is 6.5x52 Mannlicher-Carcano. Uninformed gun shop employees may often mistake the cartridge for 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser or 6.5x50 Arisaka. Ammunition is currently made by FNM, Prvi Partizan, Hornady, and Norma.

Poor accuracy is often reported with Carcanos. This is greatly attributable to the use of undersize bullets. The proper bullet diameter for the 6.5 Carcano cartridge is .268" rather than the more common .264" used in nearly every other 6.5mm cartridge. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the commercial ammo loaded for the cartridge has used the undersize .264" bullets. Only Hornady and Military Surplus ammo will be loaded with .268" bullets. Some rifles will shoot .264" bullets acceptably while others will not.

Also, the standard bullet weight for the 6.5 Carcano cartridge is 160-162grn. Most commercial loadings however, use 123-156grn bullets which will shoot low unless the sights are altered. Again, only Hornady uses 160grn bullets. Hornady's 160grn .268" bullets are also available as components for the handloader.

As far as ammo goes, avoid military surplus as it is total crap. My experience with milsurp ammo in this caliber was dirty, corrosive junk that would produce multiple hangfires and misfires per magazine. The only reason I would even consider buying milsurp ammo in this caliber would be to pull the bullets and use them as components or for the clips if the ammo came packed on them.

Hornady is probably your best bet if you want to hunt with a Carcano. Hornady is loaded with good JSP bullets and will probably cost $25-30 for a 20-round box. Norma is also quality ammo, but it uses undersize bullets and usually costs $40 per box or more:eek:. While they also use undersize bullets, Prvi Partizan and FNM are both good options for range fun as they are much less expensive than Hornady or Norma and are good sources of boxer-primed brass if you plan to reload. Prvi or FNM will usually cost $12-16 for a 20-round box.

Graf & Sons has Hornady, Norma, and Prvi Partizan ammo in stock for this caliber as well as Hornady .268 bullets and both Norma and Graf component brass.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/

James K
August 10, 2010, 06:44 PM
I repeat, it was a Model 1891 rifle, not a carbine of any kind. The barrel was cut off to make them easier to sell as sporting rifles. The importers who brought in hundreds of thousands of milsurp Carcanos in the 1950's and 1960's wanted to sell them and make money; they really didn't care much about preserving them for future collectors or about what the barrel length was.

Jim

mapsjanhere
August 10, 2010, 09:05 PM
The cut-down barrel is also part of the reason for the reported poor accuracy of the Carcano: The rifles had a progressive twist, if you cut of the last 8 inches or so the bullet never gets enough rotation to stabilize. Full length Carcano can be as accurate as any WWII rifle (major heresy, we all know nothing will ever beat the 03).

James K
August 10, 2010, 10:06 PM
The twist has pretty well "progressed" by that time. But another "problem" could be one I alluded to above. The M91 sight is calibrated for bullet velocity based on the full barrel length. With a shorter barrel, the sight is going to be off quite a bit and anyone using the higher elevations will be frustrated.

Jim

hillbillyme
August 11, 2010, 07:38 AM
THANKS for all the help. now i just need to get my hands on a few cases and pick up some reloading supplies :)

:D:D

Gunplummer
August 12, 2010, 08:00 AM
I have a beat up old 6.5 Carcano carbine and it had the "Roller coaster" rear sight on it. I personally took it off when I put a scope on it. I don't know the different model designations, but I also took off a folding bayonet. These parts were factory on this rifle.

Sig_Dude
August 12, 2010, 10:01 AM
The 6.5 Carcano was the rifle used to kill JFK. That's about as much as I know about it, other than the fact that the bullets are VERY long and have a ridiculous barrel land-area.

Sgt.Saputo
August 12, 2010, 04:36 PM
I know everyone hates these rifles, but there's something about the way they look that makes me want one. Of course, I want 2 of everything :D.

Toolman
August 12, 2010, 05:34 PM
"It is a "sporterized" Model 1891 rifle. Thousands of them were modified just like that by U.S. importers, with the barrel cut down and the front sight put back on the shortened barrel. The handguard was removed and the stock cut down to sporting rifle length. The bolt handle was originally straight but was bent down and back as part of the conversion. Notice also that there is a rear sling swivel, but no front one; the band which held it was discarded when the stock was cut down.

No Italian carbines had that "ski ramp" rear sight (which, incidentally is not properly adjusted for the short barrel), and none had the bolt bent in exactly that way.

Jim
__________________
Jim Keenan"

I own and am in the process of restoring a 6.5, model 1894, Carcano Cavalry Carbine. I didn't know what it was when I aquired it.
I did a lot of research (not done yet) on the rifle. Mine is just stamped 6.5 on top of the receiver...nothing else. The rifling is 'progressive', meaning it has a gain twist (measured). Whoever had it took good care of the bore, I pushed about 24" of cosmo out of the bore & the bore was shiny. The bolt on mine is straight down. It has a 'cruciform' bayonet (3-sided) that took me 2-days of re-rust using Kroil-oil to get things moving. I'm surprised that you have as much info stamped on the rifle that you posted. The clips are different also, load from top, eject from the bottom.
I need to know what original finish was used on the metal parts.

James K
August 12, 2010, 10:04 PM
AFAIK, all Italian Carcano rifles and carbines were blued, although the finish deteriorated during WWII.

Gunplummer, the adjustable carbine sight has a ramp, but it is a lot shorter and is marked for a shorter range than the rifle sight shown in the OP's pictures. If your carbine had a sight like that shown, it would have been some kind of mismatch.

Jim

Gunplummer
August 13, 2010, 09:03 AM
Yes, it looked basically the same but was shorter.