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View Full Version : Crocket Front Stuffer-help with accuracy


quillgordo
July 7, 2010, 02:01 PM
I purchased a used, but like new, Traditions 32 cal Crockett percussion 1 in 48 twist.
At 50 yds, with .310 ball, .001 lubed patch and 30 g of FF it shot first shot in the Bullseye (6 o'clock hold)
Each subsequent shot moved up 1 inch for total of 6 shots.
Why would this be happening, and what to do to correct.
This is for squirrel hunting, so I need accuracy.
Thanks

arcticap
July 7, 2010, 02:26 PM
At 50 yards that's pretty good accuracy for an iron sighted pistol.

What type or brand of ffg powder?
Maybe switching to fffg or P will help because it often burns cleaner and more consistent and is recommended for small calibers.
It's also possible that it's caused by the barrel warming up and the powder residue left in the barrel, so try swabbing out the barrel every few shots.
Try a lubed .015 patch for a tighter seal and more consistent velocity.
Then adjust the powder charge to obtain the best results.

If loading with 777 then ffg doesn't matter as much but try reducing the load in small increments.
Don't load 777 using very much compression.

If using powders other than 777 then use consistent compression when ramming the ball.
Sometimes using an over powder card or wad will help to promote more consistent velocity.

okiefarmer
July 7, 2010, 02:26 PM
Aim 1" lower from now on after first shot.

See, simply fix.:rolleyes::D:D

Sorry, I really don't know what the isue might be, but I'm sure someone on here will, there is a wealth of knowledge here.

Pahoo
July 7, 2010, 02:49 PM
Each subsequent shot moved up 1 inch for total of 6 shots.
For a total of 6" from original shot? ... Right ??:confused:

The Practicles & Particulars:
Switch to FFFG and what is your propellant?
Are your lubed patches the same or what is your lube?
Are you cleaning between shot and if not, see what you get when you do.
I really don't have a problem with your 30grns to start. Try stepping up, in 5grn. incriments.

For number of years, I shot .32's; Cherokee and Crockett and didn't run into this particular problem.
The Crockett was too long for my woods. ... :rolleyes:


Be Safe !!!

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
July 7, 2010, 04:55 PM
I have one, and the best accuracy load is "0" Buckshot and .015 patch
and 40 grs. Goex FF Black Powder. I think "know" that your ball is way
too small. And yes that's FF not FFF.

Pahoo
July 7, 2010, 06:48 PM
quillgordo
You have tried FFG and while you are trying to work up a load, try FFFG. Yes, FFFG. I have used FFFG up to and including .50, with better performance. Your money, your call. ..... ;)


Be Safe !!!

quillgordo
July 7, 2010, 07:52 PM
Thanks for all replies so far.
To restate.
I am using FF
I will try FFF but that that breed more consistency. Remember my shots string up 1 inch for a total of 6 inch group
Someone suggested I work up in 5 g incriments. I think i'll work down, as Traditions lists suggested loads between 10g and 25 g. I'm at 30
someone said the ball was too small, but .310 with .001 patch is tight, especially after 4th shot.
Someone suggested swabbing between shots. I'm squirrel hunting and don't want to have to do that, but I guess it's possible.
My question regards gaining consistancy from shot to shot. What might cause this vertical stringing. Does a muzzleloader benefit from barrel bedding?

Hawg
July 7, 2010, 08:27 PM
A .310 ball is the proper size but normally a .010 or .015 patch is used. I don't have a .32 but most loads I see posted seem to fall between 20-25 grs.

B.L.E.
July 7, 2010, 09:19 PM
Most likely your shots are rising because the barrel is progressively getting more fouled with each shot. The extra resistance to the bullet's movement causes the pressure to rise which increases velocity.
Small bores foul their barrels rapidly and you might try to wipe the bore with a damp cleaning patch between each shot. Be sure to follow it with a dry patch so you don't have a wet bore, that dry patch can be the wet patch for the next loading cycle.

Almost everyone uses FFFg in a .32.

arcticap
July 7, 2010, 09:30 PM
777 is considered to be a good powder for the smallest calibers because it burns so clean that swabbing is mostly unnecessary.
That's not to say that it will solve the accuracy problems associated with taking multiple shots.
After all it's just a pistol and not a rifle, and 50 yards is quite a long distance to expect rifle size groups with such a short sighting plane that the pistol has.
The loading difficulty does seem to be caused by the powder fouling.
I can understand if you don't want to try 777 because that powder can be erratic from over compression when used in some guns too. But if you can get some Swiss then you just might find that it makes a difference.
Swiss certainly shouldn't shoot any worse because it has the best ingredients found anywhere on the whole planet, and most competitive target shooters use it for a reason! :)

horseman308
July 7, 2010, 09:59 PM
Definitely try the switch from FFg to FFFg. Make sure to reduce your charge by about 15-20% to get the same pressure and velocity, since FFFg burns hotter than FFg (25 grains of FFFg would be approximately the same as 30 grains of FFg). Another thing, you've mentioned twice that your patch is .001. Are you certain of this? That's 1/1000th of an inch and extremely thin. Most t-shirts are at least .10 (1/100th). If it's tight in the bore, then that's fine, but I was just curious.

Another question is what type of lube are you using? I've found that different rifles like different lubes, especially after several shots. If you reduce your powder charge, use FFFg, and use a lube that helps keep fouling soft (Bore Butter, mink oil, crisco, even olive oil, and other animal fats are all good choices), you should see your groups become more consistent. However, some rifles simply don't take fouling very well and have to be swabbed more often. It's inconvenient, but sometimes you just have to do it.

Hawg
July 8, 2010, 02:22 AM
After all it's just a pistol and not a rifle,

I'm thinking he has the rifle.

quillgordo
July 8, 2010, 08:15 AM
Traditions Crockett Rifle

FrontierGander
July 8, 2010, 12:56 PM
I know my shots move up when my barrel heats up.

Also with that small of a bore, the fouling thats building up after each shots is shrinking the bore and causing higher pressures which can send the shots higher.

Wait a few minutes between shots to allow the barrel to cool down.

arcticap
July 8, 2010, 04:42 PM
Traditions Crockett Rifle

Thanks. That only makes it more desirable to try 777 fffg powder due to being able to take many more shots without swabbing.
I did understand that your patch was .010 thickness, but a lubed .015 patch should be tried if possible.

fastforty
July 8, 2010, 11:39 PM
I was wondering about the rifle/pistol thing last night too. I was pretty sure he was talking about a rifle but a couple of people said pistol & weren't called on it. They make both a rifle and a pistol with the same name:
Cabelas Link (http://www.cabelas.com/p-0058839.shtml)

Seems like there was some discussion about the max loading that is published now in another thread about a year or 2 ago. The pistol is 10-20gr and the rifle is 10-25gr. Table at end of last page Here (http://possibleshop.com/did-you-know-traditions/d-y-k-53-l-s-c-ins.html)

The manual that came with my Crocket .32 rifle listed the max load much higher, I'll hafta dig it out (along with some chrono work that I did with the gun) to see what it said.

fastforty
July 9, 2010, 12:07 AM
Ok, it's a lot easier to dig up an old thread around here than it is to dig up a notebook not seen for several years at my house, LOL. There is much discussion about the Crocket & other small bore BP rifles in THIS (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205379) thread. Along with the chrono data that I recorded when I first got mine. I was shooting up to 40gr and I *know* that I wasn't exceeding the maximum that was printed in the manual that I got with the gun (had it in my hand & was double checking what I was posting). I'm not encouraging anyone to load to that level with a gun that came with documentation stating that 25gr is the maximum load, it was just a "Hmmmmmm" kinda thing. Anyway, good discussion here & good discussion on the other thread too :)

arcticap
July 9, 2010, 11:19 PM
The photos aren't mine but they illustrate what a .32 can do to a small squirrel.