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View Full Version : Tokarev convert 7.62x25 to 9mm


cougar gt-e
July 6, 2010, 04:49 PM
Hi,

Have a tok and shoot it well, but was wondering what was needed to be able to shoot 9mm from it?

It looks like just a 9mm barrel, magazine and a mag well spacer. All available from Numrich at reasonable prices.

$36 for a new 9mm barrel with link and pin
$7 for the spacer
$23 for the magazine


Yes / No ?

Xfire68
July 6, 2010, 04:52 PM
It looks like you answered your own question but, you would get one great thing out of the convert though? Cheaper ammo!:D

cougar gt-e
July 6, 2010, 05:08 PM
What I want to know is am I correct with that list or is there additional things needed.

The ammo isn't cheaper. 7.62x25 is running about 8-9 cents a round for FMJ mil surp.


I just want to have more options open, especially for SD rounds in a nice tight package that the TOK represents.

gyvel
July 6, 2010, 06:06 PM
You don't necessarily need the spacer and shorter 9mm mag. I've done a couple of mine just fooling around and it seems that the 9mm rounds fed just fine out of the longer 7.62 mags with no problems. YMMV.

raftman
July 6, 2010, 07:15 PM
I thought you needed a new barrel bushing too.

...I dunno that for sure, I left my Tok as 7.62x25.

James K
July 6, 2010, 07:57 PM
The Germans converted thousands of them with nothing but a new barrel, and sometimes they just re-bored and re-rifled the old one.

Jim

raftman
July 6, 2010, 08:17 PM
I thought the Germans just relied on the fact that the 7.63 Mauser round was nearly identical to 7.62 Tokarev dimensionally.

cougar gt-e
July 6, 2010, 09:08 PM
Good. It sounds like those parts will be able to make a 7.62 into a 9mm.
Thanks for the info~!

All were in stock and have been ordered. Nothing to do now but wait ....

EddieDaGreat
July 6, 2010, 09:21 PM
I think the tok is better left alone... its one of the fastest round available in hand gun and cheap plus accurate also....`

mapsjanhere
July 6, 2010, 09:50 PM
The German army during WWII wasn't using the 7.63 Mauser cartridge anymore. The Mauser C96 was declared an illegal submachine gun by the Versailles treaty, and not many remained in Germany.

steelman762
July 7, 2010, 01:10 PM
I replaced the barrel on one of my Tok`s to 9mm a couple years ago. You only need the barrel. The mag is ok. I did have some feed problems but this was due to the ammo. It seemed to like the winchester 115gr no problem. I have problems with the remington, S&B and Blazer brands. I think it also has to do with the heavy recoil spring. It works great with the Winchester brand. The ammo Walmart seems to carry. I paid twice as much for the barrel. I think the one your looking to buy is a great deal. :D

ohen cepel
July 7, 2010, 01:24 PM
I think there are much better SD options than a converted Tok.

It's a great pistol, don't get me wrong, but I would worry to much about the conversion reliability for me to bet my life on it. For SD you would also want more than one mag.

I think your money would be better spent on a CZ82 (or other inexpensive pistol of your choice) than the conversion set up.

noelf2
July 7, 2010, 01:42 PM
I think there are much better SD options than a converted Tok.
I think you're the first one to bring up SD here. Don't think that's what the op is looking for.

I just purchased a barrel after reading this. I think it's a good price too and worth a try. I have a Romanian Tok, and will probably need a different barrel bushing. If I have to, I'll get another bushing and "make it fit". Should be a fun project.

cougar gt-e
July 7, 2010, 02:11 PM
I think there are much better SD options than a converted Tok.

It's a great pistol, don't get me wrong, but I would worry to much about the conversion reliability for me to bet my life on it. For SD you would also want more than one mag.

I think your money would be better spent on a CZ82 (or other inexpensive pistol of your choice) than the conversion set up.

Yeah, I have other pistols in larger calibers that may be better for SD. But as I can't carry in this state (Taxconsin) it's a theoretical point anyhow. (WI only allows open carry, but you can't carry in an automobile,--must be unloaded, in a container in the trunk. Can't carry within a billion miles of a school, etc etc etc. Police aren't supposed to, but they will hassle any and all OC's they notice. The only way you can "bear arms" is by walking, riding a horse, bicycle, roller skates, etc. Can't touch a weapon if you in, on or near a motorized vehicle. All sorts of rules made to keep the streets safe for criminals to ply their trade.

As I understand it, the parts I listed are the parts 9mm toks were fitted with from the factory. Should be reliable, will fire off several hundred rounds and see for myself. And I have ordered 2 mags for 9mm (already have many for the 7.62x25). It's not about "inexpensive" it's about doing it myself, gaining maximum flexibility and increased understanding of the operation of the equipment.

TX Hunter
July 7, 2010, 06:11 PM
I think this is a Cool Idea,
I would like to have the Conversion Kit for mine, for just in case, the 7.62x25 ammo ever becomes hard to find.
The 9MM is very common, and should be around for a long time.
The Tokerev pistol is alot of fun, and so versitile.

cougar gt-e
July 7, 2010, 07:17 PM
I think this is a Cool Idea,
I would like to have the Conversion Kit for mine, for just in case, the 7.62x25 ammo ever becomes hard to find.
The 9MM is very common, and should be around for a long time.
The Tokerev pistol is alot of fun, and so versitile.

Especially if it works..;)


At Numrich gunparts corp with your C&R discount the parts are;

595100A 9mm barrel New in the white with pin and link $35.75
717910A 9mm magazine well spacer - pin attached $6.70
576400C Magazine, 9mm, 8 Round, Blue 2 x $23.10 $46.20

Total $88.65 plus shipping

Use the discount code "HEATWAVE" today 7/7/10 and get 4 bucks off shipping.

Enough of a conversion kit for ya?

James K
July 7, 2010, 09:44 PM
Hi, mapsjanhere,

I hadn't heard that about the C96 being a submachinegun. The German military had at least some old C96 "Red 9" pistols in WWII, as they were a desireable (if uncommon) souvenir. But the German military never used the 7.63 Mauser cartridge at any time, and it was not in their supply system. That is why they converted Tokarevs.

Jim

gyvel
July 8, 2010, 03:09 AM
Looks like Gun Parts is out of barrels.

noelf2
July 8, 2010, 07:50 AM
Didn't think they'd last long at that price.

UPDATE: I went to numrich and they still have the 9mm barrel in stock. Might be the 7.62 barrel that's out of stock.

cougar gt-e
July 8, 2010, 01:49 PM
FYI -

I read that the 9mm and 7.62 might need different bushings. Found them at SARCO (www.e-sarcoinc.com) in stock for $16.50 each. Same price as the 7.62x25 bushing which is also in stock. I ordered one in 9mm so I could fit the barrel and the bushing for max accuracy. Call and ask for part number TOKP037. Also got a fresh recoil spring part number TOKP026.

They also have magazines, barrels, barrel links and pins in stock should you need them. Prices are slightly higher than numrich, but not bad just a couple bucks more per item.


I'm getting sort of excited to get the parts and start fiddling!


Again, I would CALL THEM. 908-647-3800 and ask for the parts. The web store front search feature draws a large negative pressure differential rectally.

doofus47
July 8, 2010, 02:22 PM
Cool idea. Let us know if you see any unexpected uh-ohs when you make the swap.
I like my 7.62x25 tok, but it would be nice to have more choices in ammo selection. I keep ending up with these metal boxes in my garage....

mapsjanhere
July 8, 2010, 02:26 PM
Jim, I agree, my comment was aimed at raftman.
The prohibition included the issuing of any long barreled pistols, including the 6" Navy and 8" Artillery versions of the 08, which were often shortened for reuse.

gyvel
July 10, 2010, 03:49 AM
UPDATE: I went to numrich and they still have the 9mm barrel in stock. Might be the 7.62 barrel that's out of stock.

When I looked, all I could find was part#1096080, 9mm used barrels in fair condition, and they were listed as sold out. Maybe listed somewhere else?

OK. Never mind. I see they have barrels listed for the TU90, although I don't know what the difference is between that model and the regular Type 54 or 213 model other than the Tokagypt style grips.

cougar gt-e
July 10, 2010, 07:59 AM
From what I could gather the difference in the original TT1930 to the newer TT1933 barrel was machining the locking lugs all the way around. The replacement barrels shown have the lugs going all the way around, so it should fit. (fingers crossed as it shipped yesterday!)

pelaeon
July 11, 2010, 11:27 AM
Who considers 9mm cheaper than Tok?

I guess it is if you buy off the shelf, but milsurp ammo is ~10 cents a rnd.

CjAl
July 11, 2010, 02:46 PM
one of the main reasons I left WI for TX

cougar gt-e
July 12, 2010, 04:12 PM
Parts came to the front door today

The barrel IS correct and it NEEDS the "9mm" bushing from sarcoinc.

The spacer needs holes drilled into the frame to hold it in place. Will
have to see the local smith for that chore as I don't have a drill press
(or the expertise to get the holes in the correct location!)

The 9mm mags came in. They are a tight squeeze with the spacer.
It will need some polishing and love to get them to fit good.

I got a new recoil spring for it too. The original one was about 2-3 coils
shorter than the new one. No biggie.

It does feed, chamber and eject 9mm rounds fine. Haven't fired it
yet, but it should work fine.

jb

noelf2
July 13, 2010, 09:48 AM
My barrel isn't in yet. Figured I'd see if it fit before buying other stuff. Is yours a Romanian Tok? TTC? That's what mine is and I'm hoping the barrel fits.

cougar gt-e
July 13, 2010, 05:04 PM
My barrel isn't in yet. Figured I'd see if it fit before buying other stuff. Is yours a Romanian Tok? TTC? That's what mine is and I'm hoping the barrel fits.

Romanian -- from SOG early (feb) this year.

Here's a picture of the new parts and old parts. The new are to the right of the old in the picture.

Fiv3
July 19, 2010, 12:53 PM
I'd just like to say thanks for this thread:)

I picked up a Norinco 213 in 9mm for a song at the gun show. I really dig it, but I would like to be able to set it up to shoot 7.62 like my CZ52.

I'm hoping that for Christmas my wife can get me the needed parts to convert it. Nothing like having a gun that shoot two radically different cartridges with a quick switch out.

Can anyone else confirm that FMJ 9mm will feed from a 7.62 mag? That would life much easier. If all I had to do was swap ammo, barrels, and a bushing to shoot a little of either...that'd be nide:D

noelf2
July 19, 2010, 02:42 PM
Fiv3 - I can confirm that 9mm will stack in it, but I can't check feed reliability yet. e-sarcoinc still hasn't sent my 9mm bushing. You may want to check previous threads about the reverse conversion you want to do (or perhaps google tok conversions from 9mm to 7.62). I've heard that there are more issues going from a Norinco 9mm to 7.62 than what we are doing here, i.e. you may not be able use a standard tt-30 or 33 barrel. Not sure. Might be easier/cheaper to just get a 7.62 toc and have two guns.

Fiv3
July 19, 2010, 03:40 PM
thanks for the info:)

I actually watched a youtube video and it seems to be pretty easy. The guy just changed out the bushing and the barrel (which I'm having a hard time finding). He changed the recoil spring too, but said it looked identical to the old one.

However, it's not a big deal. I mean, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But it'd be nice if the 9mm fed from a 7.62 mag without too much issue as those mags are easier to come across and a little cheaper than the 9mm.

A final n00b question:
Are Toks like 1911's? I mean do they all use pretty standard parts whether they are made in Russia or China or wherever?

cougar gt-e
July 19, 2010, 11:37 PM
I'd just like to say thanks for this thread

I picked up a Norinco 213 in 9mm for a song at the gun show. I really dig it, but I would like to be able to set it up to shoot 7.62 like my CZ52.

I'm hoping that for Christmas my wife can get me the needed parts to convert it. Nothing like having a gun that shoot two radically different cartridges with a quick switch out.

I'm not 100% certain, but from the investigation done, the Norinco 213 9mm pistols were modified to fit the shorter 9mm round. You can go from a 7.62x25 to 9mm, but NOT from 9mm to 7.62. (the early 213's were done on 7.62 guns and they can convert - but I don't know how to ID them from the ones that can't).

For $189 you can get a romanian tok in 7.62 from SOG.

Fiv3
July 20, 2010, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the info:)

I'll just stick with the 9mm for the time being. My CZ52 shoots Tok just fine, and obviously 9mm is going to be around long after the affordable 7.62 dries up.

I do appreciate the time and info:)

gyvel
July 20, 2010, 02:22 PM
Can anyone else confirm that FMJ 9mm will feed from a 7.62 mag? That would life much easier. If all I had to do was swap ammo, barrels, and a bushing to shoot a little of either...that'd be nice

I have done it with two Tokarevs, one an original Russian and the other a 54-1 Norinco. 9mm worked just fine through the original long mags on these two guns, but, as I said before, YMMV.

Fiv3
July 20, 2010, 04:30 PM
thanks for the info:)

I have a buddy that is selling his LNIB 9mm chambered T54 for a song. I might pick that one up and see which one I like better. I have another friend looking for a cheap pistol. The 213 might fit his needs nicely
:)

noelf2
July 21, 2010, 08:00 PM
Put the 9mm barrel and new bushing on my tok and have a big no-go. It will assemble but the slide stays about 1/8" back when I put the slide retaining pin back through the hole. Could this have something to do with the link on the new barrel?

cougar gt-e
July 21, 2010, 10:58 PM
Put the 9mm barrel and new bushing on my tok and have a big no-go. It will assemble but the slide stays about 1/8" back when I put the slide retaining pin back through the hole. Could this have something to do with the link on the new barrel?

I don't mean to sound uppity, but did you actually get the retaining pin into the hole in the link? It's easy to miss it and when I did, the result was similar to what you are posting. Just a thought.

noelf2
July 22, 2010, 02:29 PM
Pretty sure I did. Tried several times, looked through the hole and made sure the link hole lined up before pushing in the pin through the slide. Gonna try again, just in case.

noelf2
July 22, 2010, 06:26 PM
SUCCESS !!! So I punched out the link and pin from the new 9mm barrel and put the link and pin from my original 7.62 barrel in it. Works like a charm. All seems to lock up in battery properly. I put 7 rounds of 9mm in a Tok magazine and didn't bother to try to align the rounds to the front of the mag well (worst case scenario) and they all fed smoothly. I tried to get a round to jam but it wouldn't. I racked the slide slowly, quickly, sideways, upside down and they fed smooth as silk. This solution isn't really what I was looking for as it's a pain to punch out the link each time I want to switch ammo, but it'll do for now.

cougar gt-e
July 23, 2010, 06:46 AM
Glad you got the situation fixed. :) It's odd that the link was different. Can you determine what is different between the 2 links?

Also, what flavor of Tok do you have?

Just curious.

jb

noelf2
July 23, 2010, 09:43 AM
It's a Romanian, like yours. Got it at SOG about 2 years ago. I believe that the difference in the links is that the new link has a slightly longer distance between the pin holes, which must have been giving me issues trying to get the slide aligned properly. I believe you were right in that I was missing the hole in the link when pressing in the slide pin initially. I did manage to get the slide pin into the link properly, but then I couldn't rack the slide. Was locked up tight, which made me think the lugs were still engaging the grooves in the slide. I decided to see if the problem was actually the link, and sure enough, it was. Now, a trip to the range is in order! ;)

11B SSG
August 15, 2010, 10:12 AM
I had a Chinese made tokerev that was made in 9mm by the manufacturer. the magazine had an insert in it to prevent you from loading 7.62x25 ammo into it and it had a chintzy safety added to it that was horrible. I ended up selling it but sometimes wish I hadn't.

As a practical firearm, I would have rather had a Hi point. Better ergonomics, mag capacity and support.

noelf2
August 16, 2010, 11:02 AM
Yeah, but the Hi-Point isn't a "C&R" gun. Don't think you'll find much factory support on any guns discussed in this room either.

Only reason I have a Tok is because I had to have a Tok. ;) For practicality, it isn't one of my personal carry guns, but then again a Hi-Point wouldn't be either (but they certainly do have their niche).

11B SSG
August 16, 2010, 11:04 AM
A 9mm Tokerev isn't a C&R either.

Rampant_Colt
August 16, 2010, 11:11 AM
Quote:

<edit>

For $189 you can get a Romanian tok in 7.62 from SOG.
Great thread, and a BIG thanks for the heads-up on the Romy Toks!

cheers!

Fiv3
August 16, 2010, 12:11 PM
The more I shoot my 213, the more I actually prefer the 9mm to 7.62 when it comes to carrying it as a practical carry piece. I mean, 7.62 is literally a blast to shoot, but the flash and bang are a little much without ear protection.

I have been carrying the 213 on my hip the last couple of hikes. Cheap, built like a soviet tank, reliable, accurate, and very slim on the hip or in the vest pocket. FMJ 9mm should be more than enough for any critters I might stumble across (raccoons, dogs, etc) that could be hostile.

Still planning on converting a t-54 though.

noelf2
August 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
A 9mm Tokerev isn't a C&R either.

Touché, however mine certainly can be! :p:)