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JakeSnakeSlim
July 6, 2010, 03:17 PM
Bought a used Charles Daley 50 Cal Hawken about 15 yrs ago in excellent condition for $125. It looks just like the Hawken that Cabelas is selling
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/purchase/products-found.jsp?_requestid=73262

The Barrel on mine is marked Made in Italy for Charles Daly with the proof mark AH under a star and PN under a star along with some type of shield under a star.

Never paid much attention to who actually made it, the gun is a very nice shooter. But now I am kind of curious, Naturally Cabelas does not say who is making theirs either. Anyone got any ideas about the proof marks on mine.

Thanks

Abel
July 6, 2010, 03:35 PM
Made by InvestArms in Italy.

PetahW
July 6, 2010, 04:30 PM
FWIW, Investarms is the current maker of the Lyman muzzleloaders - the Great Plains Rifle (GPR) and the Great Plains Hunter (GPH), and most likely several others as well.

.

mykeal
July 7, 2010, 05:50 AM
I have no idea what AH under a star stands for, but the PN under a star and the shield under a star are the marks of the Italian proof houses for black powder guns.

If the AH were in a square box without the star it would be the Italian date code for a gun proofed in 1981.

JakeSnakeSlim
July 7, 2010, 07:20 AM
Just checked it again---Yes the AH is in a square box, no star over it as I had remembered. Also next to the Black Powder Only stamp on the barrel there is a large I in a box, probably for Investarms as others suggested.

Thanks for the info

Hawg
July 7, 2010, 05:50 PM
Only stamp on the barrel there is a large I in a box

That's Investarms trademark.

Smokin_Gun
July 8, 2010, 11:10 PM
AH in a box is a date code 1981...see below.

Using Roman Numerials, starting with 1954 as 'X'.

X = 1954
XI = 1955
XII = 1956
XIII = 1957
XIV = 1958
XV = 1959
XVI = 1960
XVII = 1961
XVIII= 1962
XIX = 1963
XX = 1964
...continues without skipping until

XXVI = 1970

Then, for some reason not really explained, they switched to:
XX7 = 1971
XX8 = 1972
XX9 = 1973

Then back to:
XXX = 1974

Then it changes to a letter code. Should be simple, but they skipped various letters throughout the "A" code, then decided to skip OTHER letters through out the "B" code. Didn't want to make it too easy I guess.

AA=1975
AB=1976
AC=1977
AD=1978
AE=1979
AF=1980
AH=1981 (notice they skip AG)
AI=1982
AL=1983 (skipped AJ and AK)
AM=1984
AN=1985
AP=1986 (skipping AO)
AS=1987 (skiping AQ and AR)
AT=1988
AU=1989
AZ=1990 (skipping AV,AW,AX, and AY)

BA=1991
BB=1992
BC=1993
BD=1994
BF=1995 (skipping BE)
BH=1996 (skipping BG)
BI=1997
BL=1998 (skipping BJ and BK)
BM=1999
BN=2000
BP=2001 (skipping BO)
BS=2002
BT=2003
BU=2004
BV=2005
BW=2006
BX=2007
BY=2008 (Bought a Pietta 1860 new in dec. 08 with this code)

Do not know how the letter code continues...or why they selected the letters to skip.

There will be proof marks (usually two). One of them will be a PN marking...this is a black powder proof. Have had people show that to me and claim that their gun is nitro proofed (thinking PN is for Proof Nitro)..it is not...that's a black powder proof.

Will USUALLY be a maker's stamp...but not always. In the early years, was common to have whoever improrted the gun supply whatever stamps they wanted..Navy Arms, Replica Arms, Sile, CVA, etc. But it all boils down to a few makers. Common ones are: (aside from writting the company name out):

Pedersoli usually uses "DAP" or "dp".

Uberti usualy uses a "U" surroumded by an octogon outline...the octogon to represent a barrel outline.

Pietta Usually uses a "FAP" in a horizontal diamond outline.

Palmetto (who made a lot of Dixie Gun Works reproductions) uses a palm tree in a circle.

Armi San Palo uses a DGG..this is also found on EuroArms (as they are more or less the same maker now). OFten harde to figure out as they overlap the DGG.

Armi Sport will usually use a "AC" in a circle.


The Colt first and second generation guns were made in Italy as well...but only as rough parts, the fit and finish by Colt, so only Colt's marking are on the guns.

To add to the fustration, have run across black powder guns without any marks at all...some with Japanese symbols...and some with what is either Pakastani or Alien heiroglyphs.

------
The location of the marks changes over the years...and the good news is that the more recent Uberti guns (2004) are more subtle. Thee is also a tendency in newer guns to serial number mor5e parts..old Uberti's had one serial number (on the frame's bottom at the junction with the barrel)...now they have both the barrel and frame serial numbdered as well as the barrel wedge. The Born-on-date is stamped next to these serial numbers (smaller, but still following the pattern of letter codes).

Fingers McGee
July 9, 2010, 10:51 AM
SG, The date code list I have goes like this:

BN = 2000
BP = 2001
BS = 2002
BT = 2003
BU = 2004
BZ = 2005
CA = 2006
CB = 2007
CC = 2008
CD = 2009

From 6th Edition BP Arms Blue Book

FM

Hawg
July 9, 2010, 11:56 AM
This is the one I use.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/rebel727/my%20junk/DateCodes.jpg

Hawg
July 9, 2010, 12:21 PM
SG yours leaves out the entire C series and I have one marked CA and had one marked CB.

JakeSnakeSlim
July 9, 2010, 07:02 PM
You guys are a wealth of information. Better than going to college.:)

Thanks

Jimbo-Indy
July 12, 2010, 02:48 PM
I have a recent Lyman Trade Rifle (Hawkin pattern) that was made by Investarms. Excellent gun. Very accurate and easy to maintain. It has all coil spring lockwork. Not traditional but it sure does work good.

Hardcase
July 12, 2010, 02:55 PM
You guys are a wealth of information. Better than going to college.

Well, at least more fun than a semester of Calculus III, I can vouch for that!