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Homerboy
June 3, 2010, 04:02 PM
Have a new Mini 14 with the ghost ring sight. Stapled an empty Walmart 9MM box of ammo (maybe 3"X6") to a target and fired away at 50 yards. Shredded the thing. I think every shot hit. 50 rounds later, I changed out the box. Same result. 100 rounds of cheap Wolf ammo at 50 yards at such a small target, and I bet every shot hit. I have an AR also, and I cannot see it doing any better than the Mini did. For less than $700 new for a Mini, they are a great buy. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to someone looking for a carbine, and that includes over an AR.

thesheepdog
June 3, 2010, 04:10 PM
sweet, i am wanting to add one to my collection of AR's

Idempotent
June 3, 2010, 04:13 PM
Hitting a target with an average size of, let's call it 4.5", at 50 yards, is 9 MOA accuracy.

A lot of people consider their match rifles crap if they're not getting 0.5 MOA accuracy.

thesheepdog
June 3, 2010, 04:22 PM
Hitting a target with an average size of, let's call it 4.5", at 50 yards, is 9 MOA accuracy.

A lot of people consider their match rifles crap if they're not getting 0.5 MOA accuracy.

True, you need to take it out to 100 yards. From what i have heard, the newer mini's have better accuracy now. Give it a try.

Idempotent
June 3, 2010, 04:28 PM
Hitting that same target at 100 yards would only demonstrate 4.5 MOA accuracy. That's still not good.

A good AR-15 can easily hit 1 MOA accuracy, for comparison.

thesheepdog
June 3, 2010, 04:33 PM
It shouldn't be hard for you to get 1.5-2 MOA out of a newer mini. Heck, i took a deer out at 185 yards using 1, yes one shot with a 55gr round. I put the crosshairs a little bit over it's spine, squeezed the trigger, and boom, deer went down. That was with an old mini-14 too.

Anyway, getting off subject.

azredhawk44
June 3, 2010, 04:34 PM
A lot of people consider their match rifles crap if they're not getting 0.5 MOA accuracy.

A lot of people need to get off the bench, and actually shoot their "match" rifles in a match, to even 1MOA accuracy, and show me a 500-50x score. Or to 3MOA accuracy, and show me a 450-25x score.

Most of those people tend to stop mini-bashing at that point.;)

Dobe
June 3, 2010, 04:48 PM
Well, if your Mini has a capability of only 4" at 100 yards, and your area-of-wobble is 4" at 100 yards, your actual group is 8". A 1 MOA rifle can make a difference. If not, shooters wouldn't strive for that extra accuracy.

P-990
June 3, 2010, 04:51 PM
A lot of people need to get off the bench, and actually shoot their "match" rifles in a match, to even 1MOA accuracy, and show me a 500-50x score. Or to 3MOA accuracy, and show me a 450-25x score.

How about a 469-11x out of 500 out to 600 yards with an AR Service match rifle? Won me a silver (8-point) leg on Memorial Day! ;) Because 2-MOA accuracy will get you a 500-score, and some are bound to be Xs.

As for using a WWB 9mm box as a 50 yard target, I use a 3" Shoot-and-C for 50-yards, with an open sighted Marlin 336 in .30-30. And use something where you KNOW where every round went, not just think...

And I still want a Mini-14 for my collection. Along with some more match rifles to keep the AR company too! :cool:

azredhawk44
June 3, 2010, 04:56 PM
Why, P-990: Do you mean that you can't shoot your 2MOA rifle to a 2MOA standard? I'd expect a 500 score if you can hold a 2MOA group.;)

After all, the 10 ring is about 2MOA in size.:p

Well, if your Mini has a capability of only 4" at 100 yards, and your area-of-wobble is 4" at 100 yards, your actual group is 8". A 1 MOA rifle can make a difference. If not, shooters wouldn't strive for that extra accuracy.

Doesn't quite work like that.

Sometimes your wobble, wobbles in the opposite direction as the bullet's inherent inaccuracy takes it. The net result of those shots is perfect accuracy.

A 4MOA machine-rest rifle and a 4MOA field position shooter will probably shoot about 6MOA for total accuracy, when combined.

Dobe
June 3, 2010, 05:10 PM
Doesn't quite work like that I believe it does. A 4" grouping at 100 yards from your favorite Mini won't always group 4" either. Yet if you average a 4" wobble, and if your rifle averages a 4" group, your total will average 8".

Nevertheless, there is a reason we strive for more accurate rifles.

Lavid2002
June 3, 2010, 05:27 PM
Hitting an ammo box at 50 yards isnt something to brag about with a rifle IMHO. Not hitting the box would be embarrassing.

Everyone has different standards and if the mini meets yours then good :)


4" at 50 yards or better is meh to me:p

mp25ds4
June 3, 2010, 05:45 PM
my m24/47 gets under 2 MOA and it was made, well rearsenaled appox. 60 years ago. shoot your mini 14 from a benchrest at 100 yds. and see what kind of accuracy you get, If you do your part it will be fairly accurate

Darren007
June 3, 2010, 05:53 PM
Heres an even better test.

Find a target about the size of a torso. Place it at 100 yards. Shoot as many rounds a you want at it. If they all hit target, regardless of group size even if it looks like buckshot, then your Mini-14 is accurate enough. ;)

Crosshair
June 3, 2010, 06:58 PM
A good AR-15 can easily hit 1 MOA accuracy, for comparison.
1. A "Good" AR is going to run you a LOT more than $700 for a Mini. Your Average AR with average ammo will probably only be as accurate as a new style Mini. In the field, you won't be able tot tell the Mini from the AR.
2. No AR will do 1 MOA with Animal ammo.
3. Few will do even 1 MOA with any factory ammo. Handloads are most often required for that.

They test this in detail to dispel those myths over at the Box-O-Truth. Follow the link for photos.

Educational Zone #8 - 5.56 Military Ammo Accuracy (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu8.htm)

I used my DPMS Sweet Sixteen, with a 16 inch stainless heavy barrel, chrome bolt, Accuwedge, Leupold 6.5 X 20 X 50 scope, etc.

#1 - Israeli IMI, 2002 1 1/4 group

#2 - South African M1A3, 1988 1 1/8 group
5.56 Military Ammo Accuracy

#3 - Federal Cartridge USGI, 1970 2 1/4 group

#4 - Federal XM193, Lot 23 2 3/4 group

#5 - Malaysian 4-85, M193, Lot 15 2 3/4 group

#6 - Winchester Q3131 3 3/8 group (1 1/2 w/o flyer)

#7 - Remington 55Gr SP, R223RI 1 7/8 group

#8 - Handloads, Sierra 52 gr HPBT, Between 1/4 & 3/8 group, 25.0 gr, AA-2460.

I am glad I shot the handloads last, as it seemed that the groups were getting larger as I shot.

I feared fouling was the problem, but the last group is what the rifle will usually do with these handloads.

Conclusions:
1. Military ammo isn't as accurate as many believe.

2. Anyone that says they routinely shoot sub-MOA groups with iron sights and military ammo has a problem with truthfulness.

3. Some military ammo shoots better than others.

4. Military ammo is not "more accurate" when shot from a bench-rest quality rifle.

5. Nothing will match well-developed handloads.

Part 2 (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu21.htm)

Come and take it.
June 3, 2010, 07:17 PM
I once was able to get 1 and half inch groups consistently with a stainless steel mini back in the 90s using 69 grain boat tail hollowpoints. I could get 2 and half inchs with ss109.

If however I went down into the 55 grain ball the groups were lucky to be under 5 or 6 inches.

On the AR i had a colt delta elite that could put factory USA 45 grain bullets into 3/4 inch on average and never shot a group larger than 1.2 inches. 1 in 9 twist rate.

Homerboy
June 3, 2010, 07:32 PM
Hitting a target consistently the size of a matchbox at 50 yards with iron sights is more than enough. My AR (either of them), doesn't do any better. Am I out there with a ruler measuring groups? No. 50 rounds hitting in a 3X5 inch square shot after shot is better than most shooters, shooting ****ty Wolf ammo is fine. Imagine what I would have accomplished with quality ammo off a bench.

AR snobs just won't admit that the Mini isn't the ****box they like to paint it as (and I have 2 AR's).

P-990
June 3, 2010, 07:47 PM
azredhawk44, you know I just keep waiting for one of those guys who can shoot clay birds offhand at 200 yards all day long to come by and show us Highpower guys HOW to shoot. ;)

Ironically enough, I am confident I can hit things farther away with my 2-MOA AR than most shooters could with a 1-MOA rifle. But I'll bow out when the Palma/belly shooters show up and get serious... :eek:

<-- Still wanting a Mini.

the rifleer
June 3, 2010, 09:26 PM
They are reasonably accurate. people just dont like the fact that it isn't a match grade rifle, then blow the actual accuracy way out of proportion... Its a well made rifle that is fun to shoot, it just isn't made for anything outside of 300 yards or so. You can actually nail a dinner plate at 300 yards with it every single time, you just ahve to know how to do it.

Crosshair
June 3, 2010, 09:52 PM
They are reasonably accurate. people just dont like the fact that it isn't a match grade rifle, then blow the actual accuracy way out of proportion... Its a well made rifle that is fun to shoot, it just isn't made for anything outside of 300 yards or so. You can actually nail a dinner plate at 300 yards with it every single time, you just ahve to know how to do it.
Exactly, nothing that shoots the 223 is really intended to be used past 300 yards, even though they often are.

blume357
June 4, 2010, 06:06 AM
At least for me there is a BIG difference between shooting ANY rifle while sitting at a bench with the rifle resting on a good shooting pad and shooting the same rifle standing or even sitting or kneeling...

natman
June 4, 2010, 10:26 AM
Go out to 100 yards, shoot some 5 shot groups and THEN let us know how it shoots.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
June 4, 2010, 11:53 AM
Your gun is functionally accurate not very accurate.

Scope it up--and try some bench rested groups(3 to 5 shots) at 100yds--and then come back to us with the results.

Come and take it.
June 4, 2010, 12:56 PM
Off the bags a lot of guns like that do not do very well. You should always keep your offhand underneath the foreend when shooting from the sandbags with a gun that does not have a floated barrel.

Many guns that are pitiful on the bench come out nicely in offhand shooting.

rduckwor
June 4, 2010, 01:45 PM
Don't let all the HiPo shooters discourage you. Your Mini 14 was never intended to be a match or sub MOA gun.

Just enjoy it for what it is, a great plinker/hunter/field/truck gun.

I love shooting mine more than any of my other rifles. Its just PLAIN FUN to shoot.

Enjoy yours,

Chettt
June 4, 2010, 01:58 PM
Mini 14 = very reliable and accurate enough.
AR = very accurate but finicky.

Homerboy
June 4, 2010, 06:51 PM
Forgot to mention that I was not using a rest or a bipod. Sitting at the bench with my elbow propped up as a rest. 100 rounds into a 3X6 square at 50 yards with iron sights. No bullet drop. No "wandering when the barrel heats up". Simple set the sight on the box, and pull trigger one second apart. BANG BANG BANG. Hit hit hit. I finished off the session with putting a Coke can on to of the stand at 50 yards. One shot. PING. Goodbye can. I used to have a scoped 700 in .223, and it was more accurate, but it was also scoped and with a 28" barrel.

KMO
June 4, 2010, 10:56 PM
Had my factory tactical version Mmini-14 out this evening. The only modification to it is the addition of a Mo-Rod. I was able to get 2-inch groups at 80 yards with a red dot sight (no magnification). After multiple rounds fired, no stringing or change in performance whatsoever. I'm convinced that these newer versions with the tapered barrels are more accurate right out of the box.

kraigwy
June 4, 2010, 11:48 PM
Be Sporting:

Load up some 80 Grn. SMKs, Sling, un-supported (no bench, not bi-pod, just your sling, and two arms supporting the rifle), and try it an 1000 yards.

EdInk
June 4, 2010, 11:52 PM
I think people are getting WAY to carried away with MOA accuracy in guns not intended for target shooting.

The Mini-14 is a sweet little knock-around rifle that you can shoulder quickly and kill anything that needs killing under 400lbs without too much concern.

Give me a Mini-14 in 5.56 and an AK in 7.62 and I'm be confident in having two rifles that won't win an bullseye contest or beauty contest BUT will always work.

azredhawk44
June 4, 2010, 11:54 PM
kraig, why do you have to go hatin' on the mini's like that?:D

I bet they can't even chamber an 80gr bullet. And if so... What's a mini's twist, 1:12? It's a ranch varmint gun, after all.

Bamashooter
June 5, 2010, 04:29 AM
i like my mini for what it is. ive done some upgrades and it will shoot moa with reloads. personally, i think that is good enough. if i want to shoot sub-moa then ive got a couple rifles that can do it with no problem.( more actually) for the same amount of money you AR boys spend on a decent AR, i have a mini that will shoot just as good. it has a thin barrel with an accustrut, not a blah,blah, match grade barrel that cost as much as my ruger. i can hit my target at 300yrds. i dont really care what the groups look like. if you think .5''in. groups is bad for your AR then good for you. if you can shoot 80gr. bullets out of your AR offhand at 1000yrds. im happy for ya. the OP said that his mini is very accurate and he is right. the new ones are much better than they used to be, and with a few upgrades it will be even more accurate. so homerboy rock on with your mini. :)

Slamfire
June 5, 2010, 05:59 AM
I shot this with a stock box Armalite NM AR, 100 yards prone with a sling in a 100 yard reduced match, iron sights, loaded single shot.

When I see a Mini 14 target of 20 rounds equal or better, than I will agree it is capable of match grade accuracy.

Until then, the Mini 14 does what it is supposed to do: Go bang and keep the owner happy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M15a2199-10Xserialnumbererased.jpg

Sarge
June 5, 2010, 07:13 AM
It's a big old world, fellas. I believe there is probably room for both Mini's and AR's in it.

That's some damn fine shooting, Slamfire. I gather from all the scribblin' on that target you are pretty proud of it, as well you should be. My Chief has a HBARmalite and it's a fine, accurate rifle.

I've got a late Ranch Rifle that has produced some decent groups, but I doubt it is as accurate as these Armalites. I haven't shot anything heavier than 55 grains in it so far; it might surprise me when I do.

kenjs1
June 5, 2010, 07:30 AM
Don't recall them being advertised as a long range varminter. Don't know why folks can't enjoy another persons excitement without feeling slighted somehow. People buy AR's for one reason and minis for another. Why buy a mini?? Because it's size and design make it a perfect truck gun. The newer ones seem to have improved accuracy. It is convenient for a walkabout, built for quick\shorter shots and fast followups, and lot of plinking fun with cheap ammo. How many AR guys break out in cold sweat if their kid dares to ask to shoot it- or heaven forbid borrow it? Not so with the mini. From what this one sounds like it is every bit the equal of the AR in a SHTF scenario. Why anyone has a problem with it....... achh nevermind. Congrats Homerboy- you and your mini did fine work now go out and have some more fun with it. Let it get dirty- don't fret a few scratches and enjoy it for the man toy it is.

Art Eatman
June 5, 2010, 08:02 AM
kensj1, good summation.

I'm on my fifth AR, over a span of some 35 years. They've all done what I expected and wanted. Accurate, reliable, funtoys.

I've had four Minis, since they were first introduced. They all did what I expected and wanted. Plinking and coyote killing, mostly.

I dunno. I always figured a fella was all eat up with henhouse ways if he goes to raining on some other fella's parade. That's the trouble with this Internet thing: Nasty people can hide behind a keyboard.

Come and take it.
June 5, 2010, 09:38 AM
I bet they can't even chamber an 80gr bullet. And if so... What's a mini's twist, 1:12? It's a ranch varmint gun, after all.


The newer ones have a 1 in 9 twist

Mine has a 1 in 7

It will stablize the heaviest bullet you can push through it.


Only the first generation mini had a 1 in 12 twist


Offhand accuracy is surprising in some circumstances. One is with a gun with bedding issues do not brace using a sling as it will put odd stresses on the stock. Also The human body will absorb a lot of vibration and relieves stresses that would otherwise show out when shooting a gun off sandbags, in which all vibrations and movement of parts is directly magnified to move the barrel and action above anything else.

mdd
June 5, 2010, 10:16 AM
Why is this such a huge debate? According to most of the "e-xperts" on this site 9 or 10 moa is the best any ruger will shoot. Might as well throw them at the target considering how terrible they are.

Homerboy
June 5, 2010, 04:30 PM
Don't recall them being advertised as a long range varminter. Don't know why folks can't enjoy another persons excitement without feeling slighted somehow. People buy AR's for one reason and minis for another. Why buy a mini?? Because it's size and design make it a perfect truck gun. The newer ones seem to have improved accuracy. It is convenient for a walkabout, built for quick\shorter shots and fast followups, and lot of plinking fun with cheap ammo. How many AR guys break out in cold sweat if their kid dares to ask to shoot it- or heaven forbid borrow it? Not so with the mini. From what this one sounds like it is every bit the equal of the AR in a SHTF scenario. Why anyone has a problem with it....... achh nevermind. Congrats Homerboy- you and your mini did fine work now go out and have some more fun with it. Let it get dirty- don't fret a few scratches and enjoy it for the man toy it is.


Thanks for the support, but I don't let Chairborne Rangers rain on my parade. I have 2 AR's. I like them alot. But no range near me goes past 100 yards. I shoot my AR side by side with the Mini some days, and I don't see a huge difference between the two, other than the price of the rifle. Got my new Mini with a stainless barrel for $613 brand new, and Ruger mags are finally coming down to a reasonable amount ($25 for 20 rounders, $30 for 30 round ones). When are you ever going to shoot 400 yards with a .223? If you do, you'll hit what your're aiming at if it is man or animal sized. I was watching Tactical Impact the other day. One of the hosts, a Navy SEAl, was talking about zeroing your sights on an M4 before going into battle. He did this at 100 yards, and the shots were all over a 12X12 NRA small bore target. And this was with a red dot sight. He pronounced it "combat ready". The negative posters here are the same ones who **** on an eotech, and pronounce Aimpoint and Trijicon the only sight worth putting on their beloved AR's.

One shot hit at a Coke can at 50 yards is more accuracy than 99% of shooters will ever need. Aside from Glock and 1911 owners, AR fans are among the least tolerant of firearm owners.

5.56RifleGuy
June 6, 2010, 01:03 AM
You forgot ak 47 owners on your list.

I like them all.

Dobe
June 6, 2010, 11:55 AM
Have a new Mini 14 with the ghost ring sight. Stapled an empty Walmart 9MM box of ammo (maybe 3"X6") to a target and fired away at 50 yards. Shredded the thing. I think every shot hit. 50 rounds later, I changed out the box. Same result. 100 rounds of cheap Wolf ammo at 50 yards at such a small target, and I bet every shot hit. I have an AR also, and I cannot see it doing any better than the Mini did. For less than $700 new for a Mini, they are a great buy. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to someone looking for a carbine, and that includes over an AR.
When you post the above on a public forum, you have to accept other points of view. I have followed this thread since inception. I don't believe anyone as become nasty, but rather has expressed his point of view.

I have had one of the older Minis; sold it. I have 4 ARs, and do not see a desire to have another Mini. That being said, you should have and enjoy anything you can procure legally.

enjoy

EdInk
June 6, 2010, 12:15 PM
AR guys hate the Mini-14 for the same reason they hate the AK variants, they are extremely reliable rifles that work under extremely poor conditions.

The latter two hate the AR because it is generally considered more accurate.

RoundsDownRange
June 6, 2010, 12:49 PM
It seems that there has been so much said against the Mini-14, and so many things that support it as well :)

I have an AR that I built myself piece by piece.. I take pride in that rifle. I borrowed my buddies Mini-14 and killed a hog with it at Ft. Benning GA. I had just as much fun shooting the Mini-14, as I have when I shoot my own AR.

I'm just here to support HomerBoy. Its a fun rifle to shoot. Have fun with it man. If I was at the range with you, I'd ask if I could shoot a couple rounds through it.

Homerboy
June 6, 2010, 02:35 PM
When you post the above on a public forum, you have to accept other points of view. I have followed this thread since inception. I don't believe anyone as become nasty, but rather has expressed his point of view.

I accept other points of view. It's jusy when people poo poo a 50 yard shot at a 3X5 target with consistent hits as "nothing special", especially with a rifle almost universally considered as "inaccurate", I give my opinion as well. the AR has ceased being just an accurate carbine. Every Mall Ninja in the country wants one. I also forgot to mention that the same day i was at the range with my Mini performing those sub-par shots, some 22 year old kid with an AR was putting them everywhere but the bullseye at the same range. He had every doo-dad hanging off this thing. vertical foregrip, Magpul magaiznes, collpasable stock, bipod adapter, etc. And when the targes came in, his looked like someone fired a load of buckshot at 25 yards at it. is the Ar more accurate? I guess maybe it is, but the Mini is more than capable of doing it's part when the shooter does his. Jack Bauer wanna-be's usally can't do theirs. take a walk over to youtube and see some of the buffoons who take the time to post their "tactical rifle" set-ups. They're an absolute joke. And some of those very same buffoons are members of gun forums like this one. And I'm supposed to take their word as gospel?

Dobe
June 6, 2010, 02:44 PM
I accept other points of view. It's jusy when people poo poo a 50 yard shot at a 3X5 target with consistent hits as "nothing special",

Actually, I don't think that had anything to do with a Mini. I also think you should enjoy your Mini, but listen to what others feel about the different platforms. Each has its strengths. My preference in a .223 is the AR. In a 7.62, it's an FAL. I'm sure others can make an argument for and against my choices. Ultimately, unless I can find someone to buy my firearms for me, I'll make the choices.;)

zbysiu23
June 6, 2010, 03:01 PM
mini is a mini.. it is an icon... one has to have one ...accurate...to be a target shooter..nee.. fun oooo yes... will cycle anything dirty or clean..and one accurize one if one wishes I do like the m14 look mine has the stabilizing shroud and muzzle br. looks just like mini m14 love it ....will not shoot a mause at 100 yards.... will take the dog at 200 ....good enough for me...

5.56RifleGuy
June 6, 2010, 04:44 PM
Hey Dobe,
did DSA fix your FAL bolt? I wanted to join up on the FAL Files but it said my email was blocked for some reason. My bolt seems to be fine, though I only shot 1 mag.

Dobe
June 6, 2010, 05:06 PM
My gunsmith looked at it, and called DSA. DSA said they'd fix it under warranty. They also said that I may have used "machine gun" ammo, which may have been too powerful for the rifle. The ammo I used was manufactured by FN approximately 30 years ago. It is 141 gr surplus packaged in 50 rd boxes.

I had the gunsmith send several pieces of brass with the rifle. My feeling is that the gas port is oversized. I should know just what the problem was in about two weeks. What ever the problem was, I doubt it was the ammo.

I also doubt it was just the bolt. Even with the gas adjustment opened fully, the bolt would lock. That simply shouldn't happen. With that adjustment, the bolt should have moved to the rear somewhat, but not lock.

Average Joe
June 6, 2010, 08:04 PM
50 yards? I would be embarrassed to shoot any rifle at a mere 50 yards.
Try a minimum of a 100 yards to be serious.

FALshootist
June 6, 2010, 08:08 PM
Homerboy, Glad you like your mini 14. They are a nice truck gun as previously stated. No, they are not AR 15 accurate and I don't think Ruger ever sold them as such, but they are a reliable fun gun to have and I'm glad yours does what its supposed to.

I have a century FAL (L1A1) and once I did get a 1 inch group at 100 yards. Will I ever get another one? Probably not before I win the lottery, but I love that rifle just the same. Its a strong 2-4 inches @ 100 yards, never jams and is as tough as it looks.

Bottom line, unless you mistakenly bought this gun as a match rifle (which it isn't) enjoy it for what it is and it will bring you, your kids and grandchildren years of fun and hopefully many pleasant memories.

oneounceload
June 6, 2010, 08:19 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmm, your target is 18 square inches at 50 yards..........I have a cheap .22 that can hit all its shots into a 1 square inch at 50 yards...........

Sounds like the mini STILL sucks........as it has for over 30 years

Mike38
June 6, 2010, 08:34 PM
Geesh, some of you guys are vicious. Maybe 8 MOA is good shooting for the original poster. He should be encouraged, not cut down.

With some practice, it may just be possible for him to get 2 MOA, and that’s expert rifleman shooting.

5.56RifleGuy
June 6, 2010, 09:47 PM
I doubt that the 144 grain would be machine gun ammo. That is really really light for that kind of thing. I shot the same stuff in the 21 inch STG58 and I didnt see any problems. I do hope its not the ammo though, I have 980 rounds to get rid of it it is.

Id like to try shooting a mini sometime. I havent gotten a chance to yet.

Bamashooter
June 6, 2010, 10:35 PM
how do all of you know what kind of groups the OP is getting? he said he hit the box, he didnt say where he hit the box and none of you know.

oneounceload you dont know what you are talking about. the mini has never ''sucked''. my raggedy ole mini will shoot moa all day every day.

'' i have a cheap .22 that can hit all its shots into a 1'' square at 50yrds. :rolleyes:

Homerboy
June 7, 2010, 05:24 AM
Hmmmmmmmmmm, your target is 18 square inches at 50 yards..........I have a cheap .22 that can hit all its shots into a 1 square inch at 50 yards...........

Sounds like the mini STILL sucks........as it has for over 30 years

You're comparing a rimfire to a centerfire? Are you kidding? Why do you think people are more accurate with a .22 pistol over a .45?


Look, I hit a target a bit bigger than the human heart consistently at 50 yards, with crappy Wolff ammo, and not benchrested. If you think that makes the gun a piece of junk, then there is no talking to you. You're probably one of those mall ninja types with their AR decked out with every gizmo that you can order from Cheaper than Dirt on it. tell you what. Stand 100 yards downrange and give me one shot. Feel confident I wouldn't hit you with it?

rickyrick
June 7, 2010, 10:17 AM
homerboy,

I have been thinking about having a lawyer proof read before posting.

My mini shoots good too, I don't even have a bench....most of the time i sit on the tail gate or a wobbly five gallon bucket....closest thing to a bench is my rolled down pickup window, which doubles as a stand when I throw a camo tarp over the front.(which is akward because of ensuring brass doesn't hit glass)

ARDogman
June 7, 2010, 11:18 AM
1oz & Avg. Joe...

Really?

Shooting at a 3x5 target at 50 yards and hitting it every time doesn't mean you're shooting the the extreme edges of the target. I shoot at targets that are probably 12x18 at 100 yards. Sometimes I can put together <1/2 in group, but I'm still shooting at a huge target. Saying the Mini sucks is pretty funny. You're probably the same type of guy who says the F-150 sucks because you like Chevy better.

AJ, I'd feel like an idiot if I made your post.

williamd
June 7, 2010, 11:32 AM
My [new to me] Mini Ranch Rifle with apperture sights is 2 +/- inches at 50 off bench. 3+/- off-hand. At 100 it was ... obviously ... about twice that. That is Federal ammo. Remington is about an inch larger. I was pleasantly surprised what with all the tales. May consider a scope or red dot, but it will do what I want it to do as is!

As a former benchrest competitor who scoffed at five shots that were not a ragged [not too ragged if you are gonna win] at 100 yds, I admit that the Mini is no competitor but that is not why I bought it. Have a few that will poke single holes - 22rf to 7MMM - if that is what I need. That is not what I need from the Mini.

pgdion
June 7, 2010, 11:45 AM
Hey, I for one appreciate the post and think that's pretty good shooting. Most of those shooting on rests and using a scope are not impressed (and I wouldn't be either if that was the case here) but for iron sights and arm supported, yea I agree, that's pretty good. I rarely use scopes myself, I think the iron sights are more fun (although with needing glasses, the red-dots do make it easier since the dot and the target are both clear - hehe). I like iron sights, prone position best for rifle shooting. The iron sights keep the challenge up and to me, stands and rests are for sighting the gun in. Thanks for the post, I'm actually thinking of getting on of these (ok, planning on it, just haven't told the wife yet). I like the style, I here pretty good comments on them, and the price is excellent. Since I'm not planning a joining a rifle league, one of these would be perfect for the outdoor range up north (where pop cans are my personal favorite target).

rickyrick
June 7, 2010, 01:35 PM
I prefer iron sights over a scope when shooting for fun, scopes is boring, other than hunting......


Find a full, hot pop can in the back of the truck is like Christmas;)

dcody40
June 7, 2010, 05:29 PM
Ok guys all in good taste so far, I have noticed the Glock bashers, don't own one, Mini 14 bashers, do own one, it's great for what it is, AR bashers, shot the military variant, also a few civilian versions, nice and everyone is different, don't own one, do own some bolt guns in .308, also own an M1A so I kind of know what to expect from each type of rifle.
OK the thing that nobody touched on, we don't know the op, he could be a young beginner who with his first ever shooting iron, is proud to see what he can do, does he have good eyes, maybe not, maybe so, he's happy to be shooting and I understand this 100 percent, I'm no bench shooter either, I can hit almost anything in very small groups, with all of my longarms, and handguns but I'm not a bench shooter and am just having fun playing with my toys, got a bad right eye, I am left eye dominant and that is fine for handgun sights, but have to use a scope on all the longarms because I can't get my left eye over where it would need to be. So my point is leave him to enjoy his shooting iron and lets just have fun, Ok, there are much more serious issues out there that we could be typing about.
I noticed the OP is a senior member, ok, that don't say he's an old timer like me, but maybe he could have crappy eyes like I do and is happy to hit the box, they are more fun to blow up than just punching holes anyway. I kind of like a little reactive target once in awhile don't you !.
So lets get back to Yak yak ! and fun.;)

Regards to all you folks !

Duane USN/ret

Homerboy
June 7, 2010, 07:08 PM
I'm no kid. Been shooting 20 years. Mostly handguns and AR's. I shoot probably 5 times a year. My Mini, that i bought new 3 months ago, now has 200 rounds thorugh it. i don't hunt, so I never bothered to put a scope on my AR's or my Mini. I'm not claiming to be Annie Oakley. What i am saying is that the Mini gets a lot of bad press. I took this thing right out of the box. it has adjustable sights, but I never adjusted them. Next time i go, I will. I posted this because people say the Mini is innaccurate. I don't believe it is. Hitting a heart sized target at 50 yards shot after shot is not innacurate. No "the shots wandered after 5 rounds" phenomenom that people ascribe to the Mini's. Just shot after shot of hits. No scope, no rest, no premium ammo. When a Navy SEAl zeroes his AR at 100 yards and produces a group bigger than my outstretched hand with a red dot optic, and pronouncing the gun "combat ready", I figure my Mini is good to go.

Seriously, gun forums are great places, but the Jack Bauer wanna-be's really need to get a life.

Come and take it.
June 7, 2010, 07:37 PM
If I want a close quarter combat rifle I will grab my mini. If I want to shoot something far away I will grab a varmint rifle.

From a tactical point of view with factory magazines the mini-14 will utterly not fail you in reliablity. When you are within a couple hundred yards or more importantly 15 feet you want a gun that will never fail.

Murphy's law is a real phenomenon.

Only 3 ARs of the many I have owned over the years were utterly reliable. One was a colt Hbar post ban, One a Colt delta elite with 24 inch barrel, the other is the SW MP 15 I own right now. Others have failed me enough times to make me wary of the AR15 platform in a home invasion situation.

With handloads a person can tune some decent accuracy out of a mini. Enough to hunt with and use at intermediate ranges on varmints up to 150 yards. You have to leave some range to justify having a 204, 22-250 or 220 swift varmint rifle.

oneounceload
June 7, 2010, 07:43 PM
oneounceload you dont know what you are talking about. the mini has never ''sucked''. my raggedy ole mini will shoot moa all day every day.


Right, they were crap 30 years ago when I had one. Mags not compatible with AR's is only one issue. Minute of "side of the barn" is more apropos. I have a H&R single shot .223, probably the cheapest 223 available, that shoots tighter groups.....you like it?? Good for you.........

Homerboy
June 7, 2010, 08:04 PM
Not being accurate with a Mini isn't always the fault of the gun. I carried a Glock 19 on duty. Despite shooting it often, I was never accurate enough with it. The shots all hit the torso, but they were all over the place. Put a Beretta 92 in my hand, or a 3rd gen S&W, and they were dead center. Perhaps the Mini just isn't a good fit for you. The gun has been made for over 30 years. If it was such a POS, it would not have survived this long. And even if the one you shot 30 years ago was a POS, they sure have improved them. Ask a Vietnam vet who carried an M16 in the early days on the weapon how much they liked them. better yet, look at the early ones vs. the new M4's. Think they're the same gun?

Average Joe
June 7, 2010, 08:21 PM
Well Dogman, to each his own, shoot at 50 yards all day long if that's all you can hit...

salvadore
June 7, 2010, 08:26 PM
awright, I'm gonna bench two reloads and one factory sometime Thursday or Friday in between rain squals, talk about a romeo foxtrot of a Spring, and will post pictures, and I'll single load them and do ten shot groups. 50grs. 60grs. and 55gr FMJs. Be afraid ARs, be very afraid. Actually I like ARs and think they are in general less finicky and more accurate than minis, but you guys are starting to sound like a bunch of little girls.

rickyrick
June 7, 2010, 08:46 PM
I'll take shootin a milk jug full of pudding at home @50yds over paper at some over priced public range @100yds, with a bunch of gun snobs turning up their nose at my mini any day of the week...oh yeah I can do it any day of the week.

zbysiu23
June 7, 2010, 08:50 PM
mini will never be as accurate as the Ar ..AR will never be as fun as the Mini...
I have both like both..

stubbicatt
June 7, 2010, 09:21 PM
Why do these threads always devolve into some sort of AR good, Mini sux sort of discussion.

Practical accuracy is what OP is dishing out. The mini works for him. Great! Good for him!

Practical vs. theoretical accuracy is all in how the rifle fits the shooter. It is how well the shooter can point that weapon. The Mini is a great rifle for many people. Why bag on it? Does it make a body feel better to bag on another? Shoot what makes you happy, it doesn't matter what makes another happy. If you like the AR15, more power to you. I personally have no use for one of those rifles. Don't like 'em. Not even a little bit.

I think it is unfortunate that we find ourselves unable to rejoice in another's happiness. I find that affliction seems to be a native condition of the AR15 owner. Too bad. Really.

Enjoy, boys and girls! Be happy! Rejoice in the successes of others and you will always be surrounded by successes!

zbysiu23
June 7, 2010, 09:33 PM
..the first ARs / M16 sucked.. numbers and numbers ..military contracts blah blah.. problems were solved... if the Mini14 would be the choice the problems would be solved as well... better gas block,trigger ,stock and barrel and Mini is as accurate as the AR...

Art Eatman
June 7, 2010, 10:13 PM
Bashing. Is. Boring.