PDA

View Full Version : ROA is shooting about a foot high.


the rifleer
May 30, 2010, 01:10 AM
I love my Ruger Old Army pistol, but it shoots way to high. It shoots probably 8 inches to high at 20 yards and my rear sight is all the way down. I don't feel comfortable changing my sight picture, is there any other alternatives? can i get another sight from some where?

does anyone else have this problem? any tips or recommendations are welcome. :)

edit- this is with about 30 grains of powder by the way. I could try to lower the charge, but i dont really want to do that.

arcticap
May 30, 2010, 03:23 AM
There are some options mentioned here:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348539&highlight=ruger+sight

zippy13
May 30, 2010, 04:06 AM
does anyone else have this problem? any tips or recommendations are welcome.The ROA's sights are designed for target loads with balls. If you go to hotter loads, the ROA will shoot high. It's a simple matter of getting a taller blade from Ruger and changing out the existing site blade for a taller one. IIRC (it's been a while) the new blade is 1/10-inch taller.

He's a pic of my ROA. Check out the front blade, it's taller than the original and shoots where I want it to. If I hadn't mentioned it, you probably wouldn't notice it.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7733/frontsight.jpg

ClemBert
May 30, 2010, 09:55 AM
Per arcticap's link my comment:

Mine shot 4" high at 25 yards with the rear adjustable sight screwed all the way down. To fix the problem, I removed the rear sight blade and filed it down 1/32". Do this to the top of the blade and the bottom of the notch with a fine file. This is easier and cheaper to do than a front sight blade change and besides a new blade is only $2 if you want to go back. Changing out the front sight to one that is higher makes an already large sight look like your ROA has a huge schnoz.

I didn't want the "HUGE SCHNOZ" look with the large front blade.

p.s. maybe 1/16" is a better measurement of the amount filed off.

andrewstorm
May 30, 2010, 10:42 AM
The taller front post is good for precise shooting,on the other hand ,I prefer the ruger suggested sight picture for close quarter instinctive shooting,as with my bow ,I seemingly will the projectile to its mark :cool:

olyinaz
May 30, 2010, 11:46 AM
I seemingly will the projectile to its mark

Sure wish that worked for me! I seemingly will my shots all over the paper!! :p

To the OP I feel yer pain! Most of my C&B revolvers shoot derndably high with anything greater than mouse fart loads. I've had some success jiggering rear sights (and even gingerly removing some material from the frame so that the sight will screw down a bit further) but for the most part I just figger that at longer, hunting etc. ranges the picture is good so I let it be.

For target shooting at 20 or 25 yards you can make yourself up some targets by sticking a magenta target sticky (get 'em at your local sporting goods store, WallyWorld etc.) 8" or so below zero on your targets. Stick 'em all the same place and it gives you something to shoot at precisely but also puts yer balls in the middle of the target which is more pleasing to the eye.

Have fun,
Oly

Model-P
May 30, 2010, 10:15 PM
The ROA's sights are designed for target loads with balls. If you go to hotter loads, the ROA will shoot high.

A heavier charge (higher velocity) should lower the point of impact. That's how it is with all smokeless firearms. Why would black powder do the opposite? Physics are physics.

arcticap
May 31, 2010, 12:52 AM
I think that most folks attribute that to muzzle rise & recoil resulting from the heavier powder charges and is often reported when shooting heavier conical bullets too.
Maybe because black powder produces relatively slower velocities than smokeless, the projectile exits the barrel slower too. Maybe slow enough so that the muzzle jumps before the projectile fully exits.

Model-P
May 31, 2010, 09:53 PM
I think that most folks attribute that to muzzle rise & recoil resulting from the heavier powder charges and is often reported when shooting heavier conical bullets too.
Maybe because black powder produces relatively slower velocities than smokeless, the projectile exits the barrel slower too. Maybe slow enough so that the muzzle jumps before the projectile fully exits.

Yes, the muzzle of any firearm will jump before the projectile exits the barrel, but what you said caused me to theorize.

The burning characteristics of BP is different than that of smokeless.

Smokeless is a lighter (usually), progressive burning powder that is likely to completely burn within the barrel.

BP is a heavier powder that burns as a column, and at some point you get diminishing returns with not much velocity increase and more unburned powder exiting the barrel with an increased charge.

So, it stands to reason that although a heavier charge might gain you a little more velocity (which would lower the point of impact), the additional mass of powder being pushed down the barrel as it burns would be akin to using a heavier projectile which would tend to increase recoil and muzzle rise before that projectile and all of it's accompanying unburned powder leave the barrel.

Just a theory.

ClemBert
June 1, 2010, 11:42 AM
As I was saying.....

On the left, a factory original rear sight blade. On the right, a rear sight blade where the top and the notch have been filed down 1/16".

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/ROASite007.jpg

The modified rear sight blade sitting on top of a factory un-modified one. If you don't like the result then it'll only cost you $2.99 for a new Rear Sight Blade (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=794626)

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/ROASite015.jpg

This solution gave me more than enough room to adjust for the issue of my ROA shooting high at 25 yards.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e212/SyberTiger/Firearms/ROASite004.jpg

the rifleer
June 1, 2010, 08:21 PM
Thank you all so much for the help, especially ClemBert. Thats exactly what i was looking for. I wanted to file mine, but didn't want to screw it up and not be able to fix it. I think that is the solution for me.

How exactly did you go about fileing it? is there anything to be aware of. im pretty handy with tools, i just don't want to screw it up. You only files the top right?

ClemBert
June 1, 2010, 08:47 PM
How exactly did you go about fileing it? is there anything to be aware of. im pretty handy with tools, i just don't want to screw it up. You only files the top right?

The rear sight blades are a very soft metal. In fact, I believe they are made of aluminum. Therefore, it is very easy and quick to file these down. I just used a small hand file and took it down as shown in the picture. You may want to just take off 1/32" off the top and not worry about deepening the notch. Then, if it still shoots high (with it bottomed out) take off another 1/32" off the top. At that point you'd probably want to deepen the notch.

Note: the rear sight blade is removed by removing the windage screw, then looking at the blade from the top make sure the alignment notch matches the bump on the bottom of the sight blade. Refer to my closeup pic of the sight blade to see the bump I'm talking about. The blade is removed by pulling it up when the alignment hole and bump are aligned. Be careful not to lose the windage spring that will want to come out of the hole where you removed the screw.

JohnSmallTX
June 1, 2010, 10:21 PM
My ROA had the same problem - shooting high. Reference was made to the Ruger replacement front sight. I went the replacement front sight route - works great. Ruger's part # is MRO3611. They sent me one at no charge. It is blue/black finish. However, it is NOT a drop-in. You have to drill a small hole for the mounting roll pin.

zippy13
June 2, 2010, 12:02 PM
The ROA's sights are designed for target loads with balls. If you go to hotter loads, the ROA will shoot high A heavier charge (higher velocity) should lower the point of impact. That's how it is with all smokeless firearms. Why would black powder do the opposite? Physics are physics.
The issue of the barrel rising higher with more recoil aside, let's go back to Physics 101:

In a vacuum with zero gravity, a bullet will obey Newton's first law and follow a straight path. Introduce an atmosphere, and drag will decelerate the bullet. Introduce gravity and it will accelerate downward, resulting in an arched flight path. For a bullet going from point A to B, the greater the duration of the flight, the farther it will fall due to gravity. The point of aim (POA) is the intersection of the straight line of sight and the arched path of the bullet at the target distance.

All bullets start falling from the instant they leave the muzzle. Of concern to the shooter establishing his POA is: How far will the bullet fall before it hits the target? As you lower its velocity, more time is required to reach the target, the bullet falls father and will impact lower with respect to the POA. If you increase the velocity, the bullet will arrive sooner and impact higher with respect to the POA. (The bullet doesn't go higher, it just falls less.)

I think my initial use "hotter load" may have lead to a misunderstanding. It could be interpreted as an increase in velocity and/or bullet weight. Perhaps had I said, An increase in bullet velocity may reduce the bullet fall to a point where it is outside the adjustment range of the ROA's original sights. A taller front sight, or lower rear sight is required to obtain an accurate POA, there wouldn't have been any subsequent discussion. You're absolutely correct: Physics are physics.

Model-P
June 2, 2010, 09:36 PM
Zippy, this requires a-whole-nother thread, because you can't put aside "the issue of the barrel rising higher with more recoil", especially with handguns. The differences in trajectories to which you are referring is practically insignificant at 20, 25, or even 50 yards at handgun velocities.

However, you were correct that BP revolvers shoot higher with heavier loads (more velocity). This is totally the opposite of smokeless handgun loads as any modern handgunner will tell you. So, just to be sure, I pulled some of my archived targets and sure enough, my 35 grain charges were printing higher than the 30 grain charges. But, I contend it had nothing to do with bullet drop at 25 yards.

Put your BP revolver on a table upside-down, resting on the sights. If your gun is sighted in at 25 yards you will notice that the barrel is pointing up from the table, which would be down when holding right-side-up. You'd think you would be shooting the bottoms of your targets or even into the dirt, but muzzle rise before the bullet exits the barrel gets the barrel up to where it needs to be to hit dead center. (See below)

Again, though, I'd rather not interrupt this thread any further. I thought what you said was incorrect, but it proved to be true with black powder revolvers for some reason. It is the opposite of that of smokeless handguns.

Now I need to go triple check my targets and do a range session just for this because I'm still skeptical that the type of powder would cause an opposite reaction.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c315/lookere/BP/DSCF4075-resizednot4x6.jpg