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EdInk
May 12, 2010, 12:39 AM
Does anyone manufacture NEW M1 Garands? I know you can get an old one from various sources, but what about a new reproduction?

I think Springfield Armory makes a WWII style one but IIRC it cost a fortune. I'm looking for something under $800 but new.

the rifleer
May 12, 2010, 01:02 AM
Mil tec is as close to a new m1 as your going to get. They are refinished so well and so many part are replaced that they basically are new though.

iamkris
May 12, 2010, 06:21 AM
SA no longer makes their repro M1 Garand. No one will be able to make that labor intensive action for the price you are stating.

Why don't you want an original? Old doesn't mean bad. THe mean age of guns in my milsurp battery is somewhere around 50-60 years old and they all function like they are new. Besides dripping with history, the rifle is robust and the vast majority are good to go. Any problems you have can be easily solved since the action is so well understood.

Plus you can easily meet your budget if you buy from the CMP.

Another alternative is to get a "CMP Special". Assembled from inspected mil parts with new stock, new barrel and new other parts that need to be replaced. Almost like getting one off the line in 1941. Here's mine that I got a few years ago...$900 then. Don't know what they run now.

http://i45.tinypic.com/nnv9k6.jpg

geetarman
May 12, 2010, 06:37 AM
iamkris,

That is one beautiful rifle. . .:D

EdInk
May 12, 2010, 09:03 AM
I'm not against buying a CMP or other used one but I just prefer new guns.

I figured somebody would maybe make one (at the risk of being declared a heretic) possibly overseas for less money. Something like th RIA 1911s. Maybe it is too much of niche piece to run a full production of them.

hagar
May 12, 2010, 09:37 AM
Springfield Armory (the new one) made new Garands for a while. I have one with a Danish FKF receiver and Wilson barrel, and I have managed to shoot a 199/200 slow prone with it. They only made 500 with these receivers, and then they switched to a receiver supposedly made in Australia which was not as good. Some of the parts were used surplus, but mine looked pretty new and I could not see any wear on the bolt, oprod or any important parts.

johnwilliamson062
May 12, 2010, 02:26 PM
someone in Ohio makes them. I will think of it in a minute. They are much pricier than you are talking about though.
Fulton armory, but they use original receivers and most parrts with new barrels and stocks. $1700. The only place you will find an $800 Garand is CMP. You probably can't even buy a CMP Garand from second owner for that.

45ACPete
May 12, 2010, 07:03 PM
You prefer new guns? I much prefer used. Any gun shop that has few or no used guns will get my attention for about 3o seconds. It's not that just the quality of the stuff they're putting out today seems poor to me, but the guns don't talk to me. I guess it's maybe because I'm 68 and it's like talking to a teenager.

stickhauler
May 13, 2010, 12:49 AM
Go the CMP route, they have the Springfield Special for $995.00, the service grade Springfield Special for $895.00. New stocks, new production barrel on the Springfield Special, and they're beautiful rifles.

troy_mclure
May 13, 2010, 05:45 AM
i thought norinko made a clone?

mpd61
May 13, 2010, 12:18 PM
i thought norinko made a clone?

That would have been the M-14;)

chris in va
May 14, 2010, 09:59 PM
I visited the CMP store last weekend and they had PLENTY of Springfield Service Specials on the racks...$895. All the regular 'special grade' rifles flew out the door in a couple hours, so I had to 'settle' for a field grade. We found one that gauged at around 1.5 on both ends. I'm thrilled.:D

dreamweaver
May 14, 2010, 10:04 PM
cmp also sells new furniture and barrels separately. so you really can have a "as new" garand for very reasonable $$.
mil tec does great work with the garand. most everything is replaced with NOS parts and the fit and finish is excellent. last one i saw went for just over a grand on GB

T. O'Heir
May 15, 2010, 12:40 AM
"...Miltech..." Ludicrously over priced rebuilds. So are Fulton's.
"...I think Springfield Armory makes..." Not any more. Not even listed on their site. Other than a .pdf manual.
"...thought norinko made a clone?..." Norinco doesn't make an M1. They don't make an M14 copy any more either.
"...looking for something under $800 but new..." Forget it. No such thing. SA Inc. M1's ran around a grand.
If you want an M1, get over the 'new' thing and go to the CMP for a reasonably priced, safe to shoot rifle. You won't ever regret buying an M1 Rifle. There's something about 'em that no other rifle has.

Flatbush Harry
May 15, 2010, 12:46 PM
EdInk,

I have purchased a H&R Arms Co Special last yeast for $750 and a SA Special this year for $875. Each is "collector grade" metal, in new or nearly new condition in a new walnut stock with new stock metal from CMP. They are the equivalent of "new" M1 Garands but, with CMP provenances, you know exactly what you got. I also have a couple of very lightly or proof-fired only "correct grades", both superb collectors and shooters.

I highly recommend the CMP special route.

The real deal appreciates, copies don't.

FH

NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Life Member

EdInk
May 15, 2010, 01:09 PM
The Garand is going to be on the back burner for awhile. If I get one the CMP route seems best but I just don't want to spend $600-$100 dollars for a "decent" condition used rifle. I don't want to pay for the history. I remember when "military surplus" meant good CHEAP stuff. For the $1000 a "nice" one will run me, there are simply other guns I would rather own.

Flatbush Harry
May 15, 2010, 01:41 PM
EdInk,

I own two "new" M1As from SAI. To date, they've been 100% reliable but, if I ever have to bet my life on a rifle, it'll be on anyone of my M1 Garands. Of course, I was once a USAF pilot and bet my life on stuff made by the low bidder...and I'm here typing today, so it may have been a good bet.

To compare a new repro to a USGI and CMP inspected rifle, particularly with new parts or new issue metal is a mismatch...leaving the repro trailing.

You say "For the $1000 a 'nice' one will run me, there are simply other guns I would rather own". That's an eminently fair statement of your preferences and your utility function and an eminently reasonable position. I will take strong issue, however, with your statement implying an original but "new" condition M1, or a repro of one should be cheap because you don't value it highly.

EdInk
May 15, 2010, 09:43 PM
Take it however you want. A surplus rifle is a surplus rifle. There are different levels quality and condition but they are still surplus rifles. There are crates of them packed away in warehouses collecting dust and more sitting in forgein countries that we gave them to because we didn't need them anymore.

The only reason people pay that much for them is because of the nostalgia associated with it. It was the rifle carried by the greatest generation in the most popular war. Are they great rifles? Yes. Are they overpriced? Yes. Several people on here mentioned that SA used to make new high quality ones for what people are paying for refurbished guns.

IMHO if somebody like J&G or similar were allowed to buy them (which they can't because the were govt. Property) they would be alot cheaper. Just my .02 about it. Also, the CMP should just sell them to anyone who wants one.

dmazur
May 16, 2010, 01:00 AM
Several people on here mentioned that SA used to make new high quality ones for what people are paying for refurbished guns.

Springfield Armory, Inc. made reproductions with a couple of different cast receivers, which are generally believed to be inferior to USGS surplus (forged) receivers. They used new barrels and stocks, and refinished surplus internal parts, gas cylinders, etc.

This is almost identical to what CMP is doing today with their "Special", except CMP is doing it with a better receiver. The price for the CMP is similar to what SA Inc. was charging a few years ago.

The folks who want the history are buying the various CMP grades and fussing about things like matching numbers, getting one from each manufacturer, etc. They can't stand the idea of the rebuilt "Specials" as the history has been lost.

For folks who want a reliable rifle that's fun to shoot, enter Garand competitions, etc. the "Special" is just fine and cheaper than buying a historical Garand and sending it out to be rebarreled and restocked.

johnwilliamson062
May 16, 2010, 01:09 AM
Several people on here mentioned that SA used to make new high quality ones for what people are paying for refurbished guns.
If you put me in a room with a CMP Garand and a NIB SAI Garand on a table and said "Pick up one and walk through this door into the next room where you will enter into combat," I would, without a second thought, pick up the CMP Garand.

stickhauler
May 16, 2010, 02:12 AM
Take it however you want. A surplus rifle is a surplus rifle. There are different levels quality and condition but they are still surplus rifles. There are crates of them packed away in warehouses collecting dust and more sitting in forgein countries that we gave them to because we didn't need them anymore.


True, in some respects. That in itself doesn't make them bad.

The only reason people pay that much for them is because of the nostalgia associated with it. It was the rifle carried by the greatest generation in the most popular war. Are they great rifles? Yes. Are they overpriced? Yes. Several people on here mentioned that SA used to make new high quality ones for what people are paying for refurbished guns.

A study of economics will show you that price per unit depends on market demand, and supply. You said earlier that there are crates of them sitting in warehouses gathering dust, in some foreign land. That's true. And those are not in the supply chain of the CMP currently, they have what they have here and now. And considering the cost of the lesser graded rifles, and the condition of them, the prices charged are reasonable in the market, if they were, nobody would buy them. You say it's nostalgia driven? Maybe to a point, some will buy because that's what their ancestors carried in the military. And some will buy because they have a sense of history and wish to see it preserved. And some will buy because they are made of good timber and cold steel, they appreciate a wood & steel rifle. SA made rifles with their receivers, regardless of what some say, I'd trust the quality of a USGI made receiver over one made today.

IMHO if somebody like J&G or similar were allowed to buy them (which they can't because the were govt. Property) they would be alot cheaper. Just my .02 about it. Also, the CMP should just sell them to anyone who wants one.

J&G and other gun sellers have access to Garands, imported into this country from foreign countries who bought them from the government, and are now selling them. Except in rare circumstances when they sell off a few cheaper to get more customers looking at their other merchandise, their prices for a imported one is fairly consistent with the CMP's prices for comparable rifles.

Big difference in where any profit from the sales of rifles through J&G and other retail sellers and the CMP though. Regular retailers profits go into the coffers of the owners. CMP's profits go to fund their operations and shooting competition program. Personally, I feel a lot better knowing if the CMP made a slight profit on my purchases, it goes to introduce young people to shooting, it goes to competitions where shooters from across the country gather to compete, yes, but also to meet and get to know like-minded people from across the country.

I believe a quick check of the prices charged for carbine magazines through the CMP, and comparing that price to those sold by commercial sellers. CMP's are $15.00 each, you get what you get, but a "sticky" asking for a certain maker correct one will usually get you what you want, if they have time to look though a big old box and select a certain maker for you. Go the retail route, and the low priced ones run you at least $10.00 more for one of the more common makers, if you want one for a certain maker who ran smaller number of the carbines, the price rises from that price point quickly. I've seen one for a common magazine for an Inland selling for around $40.00. You would get 2 for that price through CMP, add another 5 spot and you'd have 3.

And I certainly disagree with your thought that they should sell to anyone who wants to buy. If they opened the door to that scenario, you'd see the commercial sellers beat regular folks to the source, they'd get the stock of rifles and accessories, and the price per unit would go through the roof. Retail sellers are in business for one purpose, to make a profit, their desire is to make as large a profit as humanly possible. And I don't begrudge them a profit, it's how they stay in business.

SOG is currently selling Garands, from the reports I've heard of the quality of them, it's fairly poor. They're selling for $429.00, they now list a better quality rifle for $459.00. That's for a rifle that is sold as-is, maybe safe to shoot, maybe not. They don't check head space, they don't test fire them before sale either. You could tie up a bit of cash getting a gunsmith to see if it's safe to shoot. The CMP's rifles, again from reports I've heard, are better quality, for from $495.00 to 695.00, are checked out before shipping, are head spaced, and test fired. They still advise having them checked before firing, mainly to cover their butts. So you have a choice of a rifle that's maybe at best a parts donor, or a rifle that's checked out and likely safe to shoot for about a hundred dollars difference. I'll give my cash to someone who is doing good work rather than someone filling their wallet any day of the week.

SteelJM1
May 16, 2010, 05:40 AM
It seems like a case of eating your cake and wanting it too.

For a company to make brand new M1 rifles at the same quality point that the originals were, you are looking at a $1500 rifle. That already puts it out of your leage of sub $800. The companies that DID make replicas on the cheap.. well, they weren't that great. But they aren't a choice anymore.

So you can either buy a surplus rifle for what CMP is charging, or not. You can wait it out to see if a bunch of M1's suddenly flood the market, but you might be waiting forever because I just don't see that happening. And CMP does sell to anyone who wants one... as long as they meet some stupendously easy requirements.

You really can't be hard up on buying brand new when it comes to M1's. As it is, the prices of them keep creeping up. The one that I bought (and really REALLY luck out) at my local gunshop a few years back for $600 I would not let go for less than $1000 now, and people will pay it. I suppose once the old rifles reach the average price of $1500, then some entrepreneur could go into business in making brand new ones, but that will be a long time coming.

Chris_B
May 16, 2010, 06:20 AM
Ed, you're, really down on the CMP. I don't know who put that bug in your ear or why, but you are very biased against them. I also don't know why 'surplus' is a four letter word to you. In regards to the rifles themselves, I think a clarification is needed-

The rifles are not ones that we gave to foreign countries and have sat around collecting dust. The one that we gave to foreign countries are not US property any more. Some well known exceptions have been sold by the CMP, such as the Bavarian M1 carbines. However, they did not 'sit around collecting dust'. You seem to feel that the rifles sat on shelves for the last sixty years suffering from the effects of time. This is not so. Next, you won't see import marks on CMP M1 rifles.

I think you're under the impression that the CMP buys old forgotten rifles from dis-used warehouses, as a war surplus dealer would. The CMP is not a surplus dealer. They may sell similar rifles but that's where the comparison ends

I just don;t understand where you're coming from. Cheap? Define cheap. Today's prices for everything are higher than 10, 20, 30 years ago. That's just how it works. High end electronics may get price cuts at Best Buy after five years but that's not how firearms work. If you're expecting 400 dollars for a good rifle from the CMP, you're being totally unreasonable. if you expect to get a good one for around 6 or 7 hundred, you're in the right ballpark

In 2008 I bought my Service Grade M1 from the CMP. The wood needed work, which I performed myself. I bought replacement USGI handguards for 10 and 25 dollars and refinished them too. The rifle was 595 dollars from the CMP. This wasn't a good rifle for cheap money in 2008? Forget the history, that's a price you don't see in gun stores for a year old quality semi-auto rifle

Bore
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/m1muzzle.jpg

My 1944 receiver, 1946 barrel Springfield, as received, but after the wood was cleaned- zero cost for labor, about 10 dollars for the materials
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/M1three.jpg

After the wood was refinished, with repro sling (20 bucks), better USGI handguards ($35 total), some little parts that are better parked (10 bucks), correct SA trigger group (zero dollars, I swapped with somebody who needed my H&R group to make his rifle correct) and a lockbar sight (120 dollars) that the rifle absolutely did not need

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/m1rec.jpg

Total investment on my part: 790 bucks. This rifle as it is now would cost around 1200-1400 in a shop that's asking a reasonable price. I see M1s for sale in shops here that have rifles in vastly inferior quality for 1500+. I saw one that made me shake my head at a show two weeks ago, 1600 and the metal was almost all bare. My rifle is an accurate shooter, I can't imagine what that beat-up thing shot like but if the externals were that bad....

In my opinion, you'd be better off with an M14 copy if you don't care about the M1's history. Detachable box mag, but almost the same rifle

Flatbush Harry
May 16, 2010, 10:25 AM
Take it however you want. A surplus rifle is a surplus rifle. There are different levels quality and condition but they are still surplus rifles. There are crates of them packed away in warehouses collecting dust and more sitting in forgein countries that we gave them to because we didn't need them anymore.

The only reason people pay that much for them is because of the nostalgia associated with it. It was the rifle carried by the greatest generation in the most popular war. Are they great rifles? Yes. Are they overpriced? Yes. Several people on here mentioned that SA used to make new high quality ones for what people are paying for refurbished guns.

IMHO if somebody like J&G or similar were allowed to buy them (which they can't because the were govt. Property) they would be alot cheaper. Just my .02 about it. Also, the CMP should just sell them to anyone who wants one.

EdInk,

I tried to post an initial helpful response, citing that the specials of both types were, essentially, new rifles, to respond to your need for a "new" rifle. I explicitly commented on the reasonability of your position and respectfully disagreed with your appraisal of Garand value. You responded by telling me to jam it, so let me return the favor. Stuff it and while you are applying Lubriplate to the issue before shoving it, think about why you are so biased. Also, since your reasoning powers may be limited, try to keep in mind that value is defined by what other buyers and sellers are willing to accept, not the biased judgments of one person.

As we used to say in the service, "Golf Fox Yankee".

:rolleyes:

FH

TXGunNut
May 16, 2010, 11:05 AM
Easy there, Harry. If the man doesn't appreciate surplus rifles then it just leaves one more CMP rifle for someone who does appreciate it. You made your case and explained it well. I (and likely others) learned a bit about a subject that interests me so we're good here. Ed is entitled to his likes, dislikes, and opinions and I'm sure he has his reasons.
Good thread, now I gotta figure out where to get the money for a CMP rifle.

johnwilliamson062
May 16, 2010, 11:34 AM
The rifles are not ones that we gave to foreign countries and have sat around collecting dust.
A number of them are rifles we LOANED to other countries I believe. The ones we GAVE go through the commercial sellers(I think).
I purchased one recently and maybe it was given to a foreign gov't at some point. It was issued in WWII before that and the later issue to Greece or Korea or whatever doesn't detract from that history and adds to it IMO.

Hasn't Korea recently returned some rifles b/c they were just sitting around in storage?

I know a few people who get really hung up on NIB. I love surplus or even just used, but whatever floats your boat, except in this case because you aren't finding a NIB $800 Garand anywhere.

Ignition Override
May 16, 2010, 10:28 PM
I just read tonight on either 'THR" or "SKSboards" that SA has been flooded with about two feet of water.

The moderator said to expect long waits for backorders.

EdInk
May 16, 2010, 11:28 PM
I'm not bashing the CMP or surplus rifles. I disagree with their policy of having to be a member to buy a rifle from them.

No one told you to F*** Off. You a little sensitve today?:rolleyes: I think they are overcharging for what they are selling but opinions are like - well you know.

The ones with new barrels and everything sound like the way to go, since nobody is making a new one anymore. As far as used guns go, no I'm not a fan. I like to put my own scratches on my guns.

Sorry, if I got anyone's undies in a knot.:D

EdInk
May 16, 2010, 11:29 PM
Oh and the SA flood was announced here a couple days ago. As usual, TFL had the scoop first.