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View Full Version : IDPA shooters, drop slide on empty chamber?


gregjc9
April 14, 2010, 08:30 AM
I started shooting IDPA last year, and love it. I have a knock-off match at a local range tonight, so last night I was practicing, and realized I had been dropping the slide on my XDm on an empty chamber when showing empty to the RO at the end of a stage. I've read all the pros and cons about doing this, and I try not to whenever I'm at the range practicing. But when finishing a stage and showing the RO the firearm is clear before holstering, I realized I had been doing just that. I will start easing the slide closed with my off hand. Just wondered how many others do it at a match, but not when regularly practicing?

RickB
April 14, 2010, 11:38 AM
I never intentionally allow the slide to slam shut on any gun I own. Some people do, and if it doesn't bother them, it doesn't bother me. That's not true, I cringe every time. ;)

TINCUP AL
April 14, 2010, 02:51 PM
I do not let the slide slam forward on an empty chamber for any of my guns.

gregjc9
April 14, 2010, 07:35 PM
That's kind of what I had figured. I never do any other time, I guess I was getting caught up in all of it. I had a match tonight, and I made sure I didnt let my slide slam close. :o

rsxr22
April 15, 2010, 07:58 PM
you will get tons of people with different opinions. I know the side of people that say it is bad for the gun and the others who says it doesnt matter. I know i have dropped the slide on empty chamber thousands upon thousands of times with pretty much all of my guns and have NEVER had an issue. However, i feel that its like most things, when done in moderation it will not effect, so i am trying to switch over, but when shooting competitions the man giving the instructions is boss and if he says something about riding the slide forward and you dont listen, you will be asked to leave or not attend again. I have found most competition shooters to be very helpful and friendly, but most places ive shot do not give more than one chance on unsafe gun handling or disobeying range officer commands

DT Guy
April 28, 2010, 08:33 PM
Tuned 1911 or BHP, CZ SA or the like-never, not ever.


Glock or XD-all day long.


Larry

ProCarryNAustin
April 28, 2010, 11:46 PM
+1 on what DT Guy said.

johns7022
April 30, 2010, 08:10 AM
IDPA: It goes without saying there is always some nervous gun guy at a match with an opinion, but you have to do what he says...it's one reason some peeps don't compete..

Never heard of showing an empty chamber, usualy just holstering is considered safe.....

jmorris
April 30, 2010, 09:39 AM
IDPA: It goes without saying there is always some nervous gun guy at a match with an opinion, but you have to do what he says...it's one reason some peeps don't compete..

Never heard of showing an empty chamber, usualy just holstering is considered safe.....


It is not just IDPA that has set up the triple redundant system other gun games use the same procedure, IDPA didn‘t invent it they just copied a good system. The shooter unloads and looks into the chamber to make sure it’s unloaded, then the RO looks into the chamber to make sure it’s unloaded, then the shooter lowers the slide and dry fires into the berm just incase they both missed it. If 100% safety isn’t your game, neither are any of the gun games.

FWIW ranges are almost always "cold" so a loaded pistol is a no no unless you are the shooter.

spankaveli
May 3, 2010, 10:36 AM
johns7022, if you ever go to a USPSA match (and I think IDPA is the same), after you finish the course of fire you are required to show the RO (and yourself, more importantly) you have an empty chamber and then dryfire the weapon before you reholster.

ETA: FWIW, I've never had any qualms dropping the slide on an empty chamber on any of my handguns.

alienbogey
May 3, 2010, 11:42 AM
I've shot a fair amount of steel matches and don't believe I've ever seen anyone do anything but drop the slide without riding it. Some of the people shooting are national level competitors. I've never heard anyone say that it's bad for the gun, either.

:confused:

Gryff
May 4, 2010, 11:26 PM
I ride the slide forward. I see no reason to subject the gun to more stress when it doesn't serve any purpose.

orionengnr
May 28, 2010, 05:41 PM
I have only shot one match (last Saturday, and it won't be my last :)).

I was asked to "show clear" at the end of each stage. However, unless I had shot to slide-lock during the stage, all I did was a) drop the mag, b) pull open the slide to eject the chambered round and c) hold the slide open to show the RO. Then I rode the slide closed. At which point I was told to drop the hammer (by squeezing the trigger).

If shot to slide lock, I dropped the mag, showed the RO the empty chamber, and rode the slide closed. They had no problem with that.

I shoot a 1911, FWIW.

Steviewonder1
May 29, 2010, 10:28 PM
I have been doing this in IPSC for the last 21 years and IDPA for the last 3 years. Guns, Para 16-40 (1911 wide body in .40S&W), Glock 21, Springfield Armory 1911 45ACP. No issues and all still shoot just fine. Lots of matches plus practice at my Home ranges doing the same. For me this is an "Old Wives Tale" along with shooting lead in Glock guns......YMMV.

dukeofurl
June 2, 2010, 04:27 AM
I've heard the story about never slamming the slide on tuned 1911's but my Rock River has been just fine after all I've fed it and all I've beat on it at the range.

I'll let it slam forward personally but I will not deride those who use a gentler approach.

Don P
June 10, 2010, 09:12 AM
Never heard of showing an empty chamber, usualy just holstering is considered safe.....

It is evident from your above statement that YOU have not/ do not shoot IDPA.
The rule book, page 11 C 18. Range Commands states the following,
H. Unload and Show Clear.
I. Slide Down or Cylinder Closed.
J. Hammer Down.
K. Holster
Then and ONLY then is the RANGE SAFE. PERIOD
I have omitted the range commands A-G as they do not pertain to the discussion at hand

lawboy
June 28, 2010, 03:08 PM
To me it is a non-issue whether it hurts the gun or not. Firing the gun hurts the gun! That is why after a while they get loose and need rebuilding. If dropping on an empty chamber damages something I will just replace it as a normal maintenance/wear issue. That is why you inspect your guns, rotate through a stock of competition and carry guns so when one is being fixed another can be used. They are tools, they wear, they are fixable and replaceable and it only takes money, which I have. Non-issue.

Lead Junkie
June 30, 2010, 11:45 PM
I say let it slam! Ya gotta love the sound it makes.:D

Wildalaska
July 1, 2010, 12:09 AM
I view it like flipping your cylinder closed with a wrist flip, its the mark of someone who watches too much TV.

Some folks like to pop the clutch too. Guess its all about cool.

WildbutheyyourgunyourfunAlaska TM

noyes
July 1, 2010, 12:22 AM
dropping the slide on an empty chamber

bad ,bad , bad ....................BAD

Retired15T
July 1, 2010, 12:44 AM
I rarely just let the slide go on an empty chamber. I just don't like the sound it makes personally.

But years and years of using Army Beretta M9's have shown me that it probably doesn't matter in that weapon at least. Every time you go to the range, people are letting the slide go forward to an empty chamber all the time. And those of us who believe this causes stress that can be avoided, we all cringe when people do it.

When I get in my car, I COULD slam my door every time. I doubt it would do much harm to the door for some time. But after a while, the window WILL break and then, the handle will break. While cars and handguns are very different animals, I still don't slam my car doors or my gun slides. Just something about the sound makes my ears hurt.

RGR3/75
July 1, 2010, 12:51 AM
if all it takes is dropping the slide on an empty chamber to ruin your gun, then you need to buy a different gun. i don't see why anyone would ever be worried about this. probably the same guys that IG their guns every time they go to the range.

Jay1958
July 1, 2010, 03:07 PM
I don't make a habit of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, however when I am competing and the SO says "... show me clear ... SLIDE ... trigger ..." I do just let it slam forward on "SLIDE".

So if doing it only in those cases causes any harm, I'm hosed. So far, never any issues. I'm about four years and 10,000 rounds in, so far - on this one pistol.

noyes
July 2, 2010, 12:44 AM
post 21 & 25 has some pictures , it's not a hand gun .....but without the shell as a buffer ....you'll get the ideal

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=404032&highlight=50bmg

fineredmist
July 2, 2010, 07:57 AM
I looked at photos 19 & 21 and from the looks of the damage I would say the it was caused by misaligned live rounds striking the edge of the chamber opening. The bolt face and the breech face are mated machined surfaces and unless there were something foreign on the face of the bolt or the breech this damage is not possible. The sharp, hard nose of a .50 BMG will act as a perfect punch if it is slightly out of alignment with the bore of the weapon. I think this is referred to as a "jam" or "misfeed".

DT Guy
July 2, 2010, 11:44 AM
For those of you who keep contending that the slide slams forward when firing, you're missing the point-the slide dispenses the majority of its energy stripping, feeding and chambering the cartridge in the magazine.

If you drop the slide empty on a 1911, you're encouraging the sear and hammer to bounce together; this is the mechanism that damages the trigger group. It's not hurting the slide or frame, its essentially shaking the guts of the trigger group.

On a Glock, of course, who cares? :)

Hunter Customs
July 3, 2010, 09:11 AM
I've shot competition all over the USA and not once did any RO command me to drop the slide on an empty chamber.
Once the gun is shown as being clear easing the slide down into battery is in no way a safety infraction unless you break other safety infractions that are specified in the rules of the match.

As for dropping the slide on an empty chamber, anyone that understands metalurgy and the efects of crashing hardened steel together will discontinue that practice.
The 1911 pattern gun can and will be damaged in many different areas if the user continues to drop the slide on an empty chamber.

For those that believe it does no harm, keep doing it, it helps keep gunsmiths in business.

Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

noyes
July 3, 2010, 09:20 AM
For those that believe it does no harm, keep doing it, it helps keep gunsmiths in business.



+1

Wildalaska
July 3, 2010, 10:37 AM
To me it is a non-issue whether it hurts the gun or not. Firing the gun hurts the gun! That is why after a while they get loose and need rebuilding. If dropping on an empty chamber damages something I will just replace it as a normal maintenance/wear issue. That is why you inspect your guns, rotate through a stock of competition and carry guns so when one is being fixed another can be used. They are tools, they wear, they are fixable and replaceable and it only takes money, which I have. Non-issue.

Interesting expression of the opposite view to us non droppers...guess I will explain it this way;

I dont slam doors, talk or play loud music or TV late at night, wear loud clothes (my loincloths are alway neutral or pastel coloured), pop clutches, race other drivers, run everything to the max or get my gun training from Die Hard. I dont spend every shooting session hosing down the berm. In fact, Im rarely a hoser, even with a full auto

I didnt deliberately break my toys as a child. Hell, I pale in comparison to SWMBO, who goes so far as to put covers on her books (Book is Important, need not to be dirty):D

I was trained to treat guns of any type as a complex mechanical device that deserves respect and Ill go so far as to say that while I too can afford to replace a gun, and while I have the services of trained gunsmiths on call for free, I dont, out of respect.

But your gun, your boom box, your money. You can even pose whilst you drop the slide (i have seen folks do that in the shop), its ok, I wont be involved in your social and cultural milieu anyway.

Just don't drop the slide on my pistol or flip my cylinder closed. Kind of hard to find parts for SIG 210s and Webley Pryse No 4 ;)

To me, I see a flipper or dropper and just raise my eyebrow like I do when I see any attitudinal acts by anybody


WildandtheyouaboveisauniversaloneandnotdirectedattheopAlaska TM

warningshot
July 10, 2010, 04:45 AM
Subjecting use on your gun by sending the slide into battery on an empy chamber is nothing-nothingcompared to the 19,000 psi pressure of just one round of 9 mil. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Train like you mean it.

Live long enough to say you wore a martial out. The cost of the gun will be nothing compared to your gas, range fee(s) and ammo.